Who is the best quarterback of all time?

[greenwichjetfan]

3 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Connie Hawkins.   Great sense of humor you have there.

Sorry was that supposed to be sarcastic? If so, I missed it.

Ultimately, Brady deserves his due, but I’m so sick of jets fans telling me they’re simply being realistic because they can call Brady the GOAT. That’s not being realistic, it’s being simplistic. 

“Oh big shiny trophies. Brady haz moar than anyone else.” Super stupid.

Montana was never the GOAT because he had the most influential coach of all time. Walsh literally changed the game to the point where 30 years later, everyone uses his techniques and his coaching tree makes up the majority of teams in the playoffs. 

Brady isn’t the GOAT because he plays for the greatest coach of all time. I’m sick of people clamoring about Belly’s record in Cleveland. It’s stupid. A superstar QB doesn’t make up for bad coaching. See Aaron Rodgers, Dan Marino. Belichick struggled in Cle, but he’s easily the best coach since Walsh. And while Walsh was more influential, I’d take Belichick over Walsh every day. I already posted this but I’ll copy and paste here: 

 

Some of these guys are too old for me, but my thoughts:

John Elway should be on here. Tom Brady is the winningest of all time. Aaron Rodgers is the most talented of all time. Joe Montana is the most clutch of all time. Drew Brees is the most accurate of all time. Brett Favre is the most fun player to watch of all time. Steve Young and I share a hometown, and his mom is extremely sweet, and until ARod came along, had the highest career rating of all time. Dan Marino is the best passer of all time.

Loved watching all of these guys play (except the only guy on here who was formally reprimanded for cheating), but the best QB of all time belongs to one guy: Peyton.

He’s the only QB who has multiple rings, all of the records, all of the off-field work ethic, and the only QB who can definitively be described as system-proof.

- He broke the biggest single season passing records. Twice. And accomplished this under two different coaching staffs on two different franchises

- He took 4 different coaches to a super bowl including the likes of Jim freaking Caldwell and John freaking Fox. 

- He is the only player to ever win a super bowl as a starting QB for 2 franchises.

- He didn’t have the benefit of playing under a transcendent coach like Bill Walsh or Bill Belichick.

- He is the only QB to take the full weight of his contract and still go to/win multiple SBs. This is a huge deal that no one talks about. Brady circumvents the cap which allows his team to acquire/keep talent across the team. Aside from him, no one has even reached a second Super Bowl after they got their huge contract. Not Brees, not Big Ben, not Aaron Rodgers. Their teams become strapped. Peyton continually took the most money of any QB in the league, and still reached 4 Super Bowls. That’s nutty.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

3 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Sorry was that supposed to be sarcastic? If so, I missed it.

Ultimately, Brady deserves his due, but I’m so sick of jets fans telling me they’re simply being realistic because they can call Brady the GOAT. That’s not being realistic, it’s being simplistic. 

“Oh big shiny trophies. Brady haz moar than anyone else.” Super stupid.

Montana was never the GOAT because he had the most influential coach of all time. Walsh literally changed the game to the point where 30 years later, everyone uses his techniques and his coaching tree makes up the majority of teams in the playoffs. 

Brady isn’t the GOAT because he plays for the greatest coach of all time. I’m sick of people clamoring about Belly’s record in Cleveland. It’s stupid. A superstar QB doesn’t make up for bad coaching. See Aaron Rodgers, Dan Marino. Belichick struggled in Cle, but he’s easily the best coach since Walsh. And while Walsh was more influential, I’d take Belichick over Walsh every day. I already posted this but I’ll copy and paste here: 

 

Some of these guys are too old for me, but my thoughts:

John Elway should be on here. Tom Brady is the winningest of all time. Aaron Rodgers is the most talented of all time. Joe Montana is the most clutch of all time. Drew Brees is the most accurate of all time. Brett Favre is the most fun player to watch of all time. Steve Young and I share a hometown, and his mom is extremely sweet, and until ARod came along, had the highest career rating of all time. Dan Marino is the best passer of all time.

Loved watching all of these guys play (except the only guy on here who was formally reprimanded for cheating), but the best QB of all time belongs to one guy: Peyton.

He’s the only QB who has multiple rings, all of the records, all of the off-field work ethic, and the only QB who can definitively be described as system-proof.

- He broke the biggest single season passing records. Twice. And accomplished this under two different coaching staffs on two different franchises

- He took 4 different coaches to a super bowl including the likes of Jim freaking Caldwell and John freaking Fox. 

- He is the only player to ever win a super bowl as a starting QB for 2 franchises.

- He didn’t have the benefit of playing under a transcendent coach like Bill Walsh or Bill Belichick.

- He is the only QB to take the full weight of his contract and still go to/win multiple SBs. This is a huge deal that no one talks about. Brady circumvents the cap which allows his team to acquire/keep talent across the team. Aside from him, no one has even reached a second Super Bowl after they got their huge contract. Not Brees, not Big Ben, not Aaron Rodgers. Their teams become strapped. Peyton continually took the most money of any QB in the league, and still reached 4 Super Bowls. That’s nutty.

No problem.  I was on your side with the "Brady" skirmish.  You make a good case.  I voted for Montana.  His accomplishments went further than Walsh.    They helped create each other, in my opinion. You make a good case for Manning.  I didn't realize Eli accomplished so much {that's a joke don't blast me again}.  That being said Peyton would have been my second choice. Hate his commercials though.  Love Brees too,

[Philc1]

4 hours ago, Jet9 said:

Montana. Defense was still legal when he played.

 

Ill go a step further and say anyone who has played post-2001 needs an asterisk by their name. This IS the football equivalent of the baseball steroid era. Very bad football is being played currently and people CHOOSE to act like they dont notice. 

The new silly PI on every play rules didn’t start til 2005

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

It was the correct call

Thanks Francesa

[Blackout]

8 hours ago, Warfish said:

How many did he win without the single greatest WR of all time?

Wes Welker and Julian Edelman are no Jerry Rice.  

Like I said, Jets Fan bias.  Montana was great, maybe even the 2nd best ever.  He's not the GOAT.

Brady is 27-10 in the playoffs.  That's 37 postseason games played over 15 playoff seasons (of his 19 seasons so far).  He has >10,000 playoff postseason yards.  A 71-31 TD/INT Ratio in the postseason and a career >90 postseason QB Rating. 

He has QB's his team to EIGHT Super Bowls.  Eight.  He won 5 of them.  4 other times he was one game away from the Super Bowl.  In the era of mediocrity and one-year-teams, his Patriots have won the East and been in the postseason and either in the SB or the Championship Game almost every year of his near 20 year career.

Joe only played 13 years.  Brady is already 5 seasons beyond him.

Joe had 11 playoff seasons and 4 Super Bowls to Brady's 15 and 8.

Joe's 41-21 TD/INT ratio in the postseason is amazing.....till you compare it to Brady's 71-31 ratio.

It's just hard to say "the rules, the rules!" (ignoring the effects Free Agnecy has had in keeping good teams together) and have that overcome the vast gulf of exceptional performance and longevity of Brady vs. Montana.

And lets be clear, Brady could get his team to their NINTH Super Bowl this year, and possibly their 6th Super Bowl win. 

And he could play, potentially at a post-season, Super Bowl level, for another couple of years.

Lets say he finishes at 22 years, 9 Super Bowls, 6 Super Bowl wins.  

Joe's 4-0 in Super Bowls over a nine year span is impressive.

Brady's possible 6-3 in Super Bowls over a 20'ish year span is more impressive.

Give the guy his due ffs.  

 

How old are you to not know Montana was a 2 time superbowl MVP when Rice was still in college?

[chirorob]

4 hours ago, Klecko73isGod said:

That shot caused him to have a vertebrae removed. He won two more Super Bowls after that.

That would have been the end of Brady. 

You know there is no such thing as having a vertebrae removed...   he did miss about a year.

[ghost_in_pads02]

For those that blame the rule changes.

You do realize you talking about superior athletes right and you talking about the QB position which you have to be intelligent enough to play..

So a superior QB wouldnt figure out how to play QB in 80s or 90s??

Wow...these kind of threads show you who has no business talking sports..

Remember brady came back twice in his last two SBs

28-3 vs the falcons..that was the same falcon team that beat the sh*t out of Rodgers a few weeks before...

Came back against seahawks as well...they also beat the ish out of a.rodgers too

Just say

U cant leave out rings or superbowl games because it's the highest level a team and or athlete can reach..

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

5 minutes ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

For those that blame the rule changes.

You do realize you talking about superior athletes right and you talking about the QB position which you have to be intelligent enough to play..

So a superior QB wouldnt figure out how to play QB in 80s or 90s??

Wow...these kind of threads show you who has no business talking sports..

Remember brady came back twice in his last two SBs

28-3 vs the falcons..that was the same falcon team that beat the sh*t out of Rodgers a few weeks before...

Came back against seahawks as well...they also beat the ish out of a.rodgers too

Just say

U cant leave out rings or superbowl games because it's the highest level a team and or athlete can reach..

Are you referring to the "comeback" he made on the Brain fart made by Pete Carrol?    That comeback?  Yeah, that was pretty spectacular.  Actually these kind of threads show you who doesn't have the facility for forming cogent sentences.

[ghost_in_pads02]

23 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Are you referring to the "comeback" he made on the Brain fart made by Pete Carrol?    That comeback?  Yeah, that was pretty spectacular.  Actually these kind of threads show you who doesn't have the facility for forming cogent sentences.

Wait...wait...soo Pete Carroll had something to do with the Pats putting up the points to comeback right?

Oh...let's look pass the 28-3 comeback against the falcons... the greatest comeback in SB history..

Come on....do better.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

10 minutes ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

Wait...wait...soo Pete Carroll had something to do with the Pats putting up the points to comeback right?

Oh...let's look pass the 28-3 comeback against the falcons... the greatest comeback in SB history..

Come on....do better.

No.  Pete Carrol flushed the game down the toilet.  There is no "comeback" success story if you  LOSE.   How's that for better. 

[ghost_in_pads02]

You really trying to debate using "if's" ha ha

 

And your sec time ignoring the falcon superbowl comeback...

[greenwave81]

LOL...some admirable names on that list, true.

But no Staubach?  Or Bradshaw?

Both of those guys won multiple SB's.

[greenwichjetfan]

9 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

LOL...some admirable names on that list, true.

But no Staubach?  Or Bradshaw?

Both of those guys won multiple SB's.

Fantastic point. For all the Brady lovers screaming “shiney trofieyz!”, the rest of their list better have Bradshaw & Montana tied for second, and Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Eli Manning, and Nick Foles ahead of Dan Marino.

[nyjunc]

13 hours ago, Jet9 said:

No, it was a fumble to anyone who's ever watched 2 minutes of football. 

It was the proper call to those who know and understand the rules.  It was a dumb rule but the correct call

[CTM]

19 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Fantastic point. For all the Brady lovers screaming “shiney trofieyz!”, the rest of their list better have Bradshaw & Montana tied for second, and Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Eli Manning, and Nick Foles ahead of Dan Marino.

What a simplistic, childlike pov. There are clearly many factors and you seem to forget Brady has fantastic numbers to go with the wins. Hes had 2 of the best seasons in the history of DVOA, and orchestrated thier 2 best offenses ever. Hes also among the all time leaders in most relevant QB stats and top 3 in rating, yards and TD's.

And why are all your posts on this topic grounded in anger. I don't see other people calling anyone stupid every post or telling them what they "better" think. Did Brady spurn your advances at some point or something?

It's ok that some Jets fans think Bradys the best. Many NFL fans agree. Chill out. 

Why doesnt people sayng Belichick is the GOAT coach trigger you in a similiar way?

[greenwichjetfan]

51 minutes ago, CTM said:

What a simplistic, childlike pov. There are clearly many factors and you seem to forget Brady has fantastic numbers to go with the wins. Hes had 2 of the best seasons in the history of DVOA, and orchestrated thier 2 best offenses ever. Hes also among the all time leaders in most relevant QB stats and top 3 in rating, yards and TD's.

And why are all your posts on this topic grounded in anger. I don't see other people calling anyone stupid every post or telling them what they "better" think. Did Brady spurn your advances at some point or something?

It's ok that some Jets fans think Bradys the best. Many NFL fans agree. Chill out. 

Why doesnt people sayng Belichick is the GOAT coach trigger you in a similiar way?

Ironically, the only time you ever engage me in my 5+ years here with thousands of posts in numerous threads from ncaa basketball to drafts to baseball to OT to uniforms is to police me or buttfumble me on my brady views. 

My original post in this thread was 500 words and none of it was anger towards Brady. In fact it was positivity for all of the greats; including Brady. But when nyjunk and another poster both quoted me to attack my opinion, I responded in kind. But the CTM Brady police only picks on my angry posts. Convenient.

I don’t care that people think Brady’s the greatest. Everyone has their opinion, and he deserves consideration so it’s not off limits. The reason for my angry posts were not because of that view. It was because guys like you or aten or nyjunk or warfish make posts disparaging Jets fans for being blind/homers/biased because we don’t want to anoint Brady. If you have a right to your views, then I have a right to mine. Frankly, I find it childish that you feel the need to police me and tell me that I have to let others have opinions, but where’s the consistency in your policing for all of those posts? Why didn’t you have a response for my original post in this thread which wasn’t disparaging anyone but was instead making positive cases for every QB but making a stronger positive case for one particular QB? Why didn’t you upvote my post earlier in this thread in which I went out of my way to say Brady deserves his due and then explained why I was triggered when a poster quoted me? Oh that’s right, it doesn’t fit your narrative of policing Brady posts made by rival fans on a Jets messageboard.

That a noted brady ball washer follows me around and has a problem with only all of my negative brady posts on a Jets fan messageboard is a reason why I’ve largely taken to ignoring your policing; this particular response notwithstanding. 

Edit: Also, FYI, the post which you quoted was meant to be sarcastically childlike. At least you picked up on the childlike aspect. 

[Sonny Werblin]

Tom Brady lost 2 SB he clearly should have won, and his poor performance was the reason for the losses. And he only beat the falcons and Seahawks because the opposing coaches made the 2 most boneheaded decisions in the history of Superbowls. Finally, he only beat the Rams because Mike Martz was too arrogant to just run the ball despite Marshall faulks pleas.

Great QBs blow out their opponents in SBs. Brady ain't great. He is a system QB who has benefitted from terrible coaching decisions by the opposition in SBs. Otherwise, he'd easily be 2-6 in the big game.

[Jet Nut]

15 hours ago, Jet9 said:

No, it was a fumble to anyone who's ever watched 2 minutes of football. 

Who also dont know or understand the rule.

The rule sucked but the call was correct.  Happens.  That we hate the Brady/Pats doesnt change it

[Jet Nut]

29 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Tom Brady lost 2 SB he clearly should have won, and his poor performance was the reason for the losses. And he only beat the falcons and Seahawks because the opposing coaches made the 2 most boneheaded decisions in the history of Superbowls. Finally, he only beat the Rams because Mike Martz was too arrogant to just run the ball despite Marshall faulks pleas.

Great QBs blow out their opponents in SBs. Brady ain't great. He is a system QB who has benefitted from terrible coaching decisions by the opposition in SBs. Otherwise, he'd easily be 2-6 in the big game.

Even if true, and I dont agree with most of this, hes still an all time great QB and a HOF QB.  

 

[Warfish]

33 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Tom Brady lost 2 SB he clearly should have won, and his poor performance was the reason for the losses. And he only beat the falcons and Seahawks because the opposing coaches made the 2 most boneheaded decisions in the history of Superbowls. Finally, he only beat the Rams because Mike Martz was too arrogant to just run the ball despite Marshall faulks pleas.

Great QBs blow out their opponents in SBs. Brady ain't great. He is a system QB who has benefitted from terrible coaching decisions by the opposition in SBs. Otherwise, he'd easily be 2-6 in the big game.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt I guess.

Its sad that all some Jets Fans have is downrating other teams all time greats in order to feel just a little better about how utterly sh*t we've been for 50 years.  The Jets made us this way.

[Sonny Werblin]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Even if true, and I dont agree with most of this, hes still an all time great QB and a HOF QB.  

 

Totally agree. He's the best system QB ever. The GSQOAT

[Sonny Werblin]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt I guess.

Its sad that all some Jets Fans have is downrating other teams all time greats in order to feel just a little better about how utterly sh*t we've been for 50 years.  The Jets made us this way.

Tom Brady. From 6th round talent to GSQOAT.

[Jet Nut]

7 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Totally agree. He's the best system QB ever. The GSQOAT

I dont get the system QB label knock.

Hes a great QB who has played in a system.  Yes.  One that is totally dependent on his passing ability.  Yes.  

 

 

[Savage69]

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt I guess.

Its sad that all some Jets Fans have is downrating other teams all time greats in order to feel just a little better about how utterly sh*t we've been for 50 years.  The Jets made us this way.

One of the biggest things that has helped QB's and the offenses was the rule changes since 1978..As much as I like Brady,Bree's and Rogers I wonder how they would have done before the rule changes and when Qb's could get hammered and O linemen could get head slapped and couldn't extend their arms ??

[Sonny Werblin]

14 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I dont get the system QB label knock.

Hes a great QB who has played in a system.  Yes.  One that is totally dependent on his passing ability.  Yes.  

 

 

Lol. I'm just messing around. If you look back in the thread I first mentioned it as the devil's advocate point of view.

[Jet Nut]

7 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Lol. I'm just messing around. If you look back in the thread I first mentioned it as the devil's advocate point of view.

Dont scare me, I always think of you as more knowledgeable than most.  I'm like just a system QB?  LOL

[Pac]

1 hour ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Ironically, the only time you ever engage me in my 5+ years here with thousands of posts in numerous threads from ncaa basketball to drafts to baseball to OT to uniforms is to police me or buttfumble me on my brady views. 

My original post in this thread was 500 words and none of it was anger towards Brady. In fact it was positivity for all of the greats; including Brady. But when nyjunk and another poster both quoted me to attack my opinion, I responded in kind. But the CTM Brady police only picks on my angry posts. Convenient.

I don’t care that people think Brady’s the greatest. Everyone has their opinion, and he deserves consideration so it’s not off limits. The reason for my angry posts were not because of that view. It was because guys like you or aten or nyjunk or warfish make posts disparaging Jets fans for being blind/homers/biased because we don’t want to anoint Brady. If you have a right to your views, then I have a right to mine. Frankly, I find it childish that you feel the need to police me and tell me that I have to let others have opinions, but where’s the consistency in your policing for all of those posts? Why didn’t you have a response for my original post in this thread which wasn’t disparaging anyone but was instead making positive cases for every QB but making a stronger positive case for one particular QB? Why didn’t you upvote my post earlier in this thread in which I went out of my way to say Brady deserves his due and then explained why I was triggered when a poster quoted me? Oh that’s right, it doesn’t fit your narrative of policing Brady posts made by rival fans on a Jets messageboard.

That a noted brady ball washer follows me around and has a problem with only all of my negative brady posts on a Jets fan messageboard is a reason why I’ve largely taken to ignoring your policing; this particular response notwithstanding. 

Edit: Also, FYI, the post which you quoted was meant to be sarcastically childlike. At least you picked up on the childlike aspect. 

CTM is the worst...  a pigs pig.

[greenwichjetfan]

41 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt I guess.

Its sad that all some Jets Fans have is downrating other teams all time greats in order to feel just a little better about how utterly sh*t we've been for 50 years.  The Jets made us this way.

Calling @CTM ?? 

[Jetsfan80]

Shoeless Joe Jackson, Connie Hawkins, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, A-roid, Joe Bagodoughnuts;   Help me out here...…..

None of those are in the GOAT discussion.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

None of those are in the GOAT discussion.

 

Obviously.  The  "Connie Hawkins" listing should have tipped you off.  Oh, and Joe Bagodoughnuts, good career not and all-time great.

[King P]

18 hours ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Because he had Montana.

"Joe Montana was the product of the system"

- Bill Walsh

[CTM]

36 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Calling @CTM ?? 

Its pretty easy to put you on tilt eh?

[greenwichjetfan]

7 minutes ago, CTM said:

Its pretty easy to put you on tilt eh?

I’m so happy you’ve already resorted to this. Only took a few posts this time. Thanks for confirming. 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Savage69 said:

One of the biggest things that has helped QB's and the offenses was the rule changes since 1978..As much as I like Brady,Bree's and Rogers I wonder how they would have done before the rule changes and when Qb's could get hammered and O linemen could get head slapped and couldn't extend their arms ??

Defensive players today are 100 times the athletes they were "back when".  

Free agency and the cap is 100 times more difficult that the old "we own the players" era.

And overall talent (especially elite talent) is more dispersed over more teams than back then.  

Sure, the no raping the WR has helped QB's.  But all QB's got helped equally, it's not an argument that the guy who is 100x better than every other QB of this era is somehow lesser than a guy in the 70's who threw 15 passes a game and played in a run dominant era.

[Savage69]

15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Defensive players today are 100 times the athletes they were "back when".  

Free agency and the cap is 100 times more difficult that the old "we own the players" era.

And overall talent (especially elite talent) is more dispersed over more teams than back then.  

Sure, the no raping the WR has helped QB's.  But all QB's got helped equally, it's not an argument that the guy who is 100x better than every other QB of this era is somehow lesser than a guy in the 70's who threw 15 passes a game and played in a run dominant era.

And if the O-Linemen of today were restricted like the one's then were the QB's would be running for their lives.That was my point..