3 Coordinators, No Head Coach

[DMan77]

I'm stealing this from SAR I's (Apologies, sir!) excellent Mike Francesa thread because I think it deserves it's own broader discussion.

It sounds very much from what we've heard and read that the Jets are going to be running more of a 3 coordinator system rather than a HC ->Coordinator -> Position coach hierarchy. Gase even basically said he wanted someone with a HC mentality to run the defense. They want someone who can work mostly independent of the HC so Gase can focus on the QB and the offense. 

It's an interesting idea, and it definitely takes the right kind of coaches and personalities. I think there are a lot of coaches (Bowles...) who would have a hard time turning that kind of control over and running this kind of system... Afterall, even if Gase has little to do with the defense he has Head Coach next to his name, so he'll still take the brunt of the criticism if it flounders. 

LA was the tip of the spear with this concept and it's worked... Maybe for once the Jets are getting in on the newest trends early.

It's a risky way to do things, but I'm excited to see how things play out. 

 

19 hours ago, SAR I said:

It is pretty clear that we are going to be a team with 3 coordinators:

Gase OC
Williams DC
Boyer STC

And Gase will be the overseer who handles tiebreakers and the media.  I like it.  We aren't an A+ destination for the best GM and best HC in the league so this is a very smart approach.  The LA Rams?

Sean McVay OC
Wade Philips DC
John Fassel STC

Philips and Fassel have been on their jobs for more than a decade(s) each and are more respected than their newb HC.  No way McVay is calling the D or ST shots.  He's grooming his young QB and he's calling creative offensive plays.  In essence, the Jets and Rams have no HC.  Welcome to the new NFL.

SAR I

[Jetsfan80]

And they all report directly to the owner.  What can go wrong?

[prime21]

Gase still needs to be the one with the final coaching decisions on the field.  Communication, as always, will be the key.  

[JustInFudge]

This team...

[Jetsfan80]

GM, HC, OC, DC, Sam Darnold, Jamal Adams, Spencer Long, Lac Edwards, Janitor, Parking Attendant, Beer Girl, Flight Crew.....all on the same level, reporting to the owner.

Chris Johnson:  Visionary. 

[DMan77]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And they all report directly to the owner.  What can go wrong?

A lot can go wrong for sure... But it could also work. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, DMan77 said:

A lot can go wrong for sure... But it could also work. 

That's what they said about the Hindenburg. 

[nico002]

Adam Gase is the head coach- that's his title for a reason. He has 3 years of head coaching experience. 

Sean Payton, Andy Reid, McVay

3/4 Championship game head coaches are defacto OCs that really focus on that side of the ball. 

Not a new idea... AT ALL. Ever heard of a guy named Bill Walsh?

"CEO" head coaches are the most overrated thing in the world. 

[DMan77]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's what they said about the Hindenburg. 

The Hindenburg flew 63 successful trips for 14 months... It worked for a while

 

 

 

[Patriot Killa]

Well as long as there is proper communication between these coordinators and they understand that Gase has final say on “in-general situations” and Gase often wants to make a collaborative effort to solve the decisions that rise, things will be okay.

I’d also like to say that Matt Burke is one garbage ass DC and Gase hasn’t yet had a guy like Gregg Williams, who can completely take over his side of the ball without Gase having to worry about a thing. This bodes well for Gase and will allow him to really dig into his comfort zone as a coach and get it going with Sam and the offense.

Gregg Williams was a bigger hire than people think. It’s not just about getting an aggressive, tough, gritty and effective coach. It’s about the true freedom that it gives Adam Gase and the potential success this team can see in all three phases of the game.

[bealeb319]

Last year we had one special teams coach and a bunch of fakers at every other level so it's not like there is much room for us to regress.

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

[The Crusher]

20 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And they all report directly to the owner.  What can go wrong?

 

18 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

GM, HC, OC, DC, Sam Darnold, Jamal Adams, Spencer Long, Lac Edwards, Janitor, Parking Attendant, Beer Girl, Flight Crew.....all on the same level, reporting to the owner.

Chris Johnson:  Visionary. 

 

16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's what they said about the Hindenburg. 

I like this new you.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

 

I like this new you. 

I like the new me too. 

[slats]

I don't like it. I prefer a CEO-type head coach. My hope here is that Gase is that good with QBs, and Darnold does get developed the right way. Then, if the wins aren't coming, a well developed Darnold attracts an even better coach down the line. 

I've read that Williams is negotiating a 3-year deal, which seems odd (not that I've seen the terms of Gase's deal, yet, but I'd expect four years, at least). Do they expect Gase to grow on the job and become more of that CEO?

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I like the new me too. 

 

[Jetsfan80]

17 minutes ago, DMan77 said:

The Hindenburg flew 63 successful trips for 14 months... It worked for a while

So using that blueprint, we have 1 season where this new structure will work well before it fails miserably.

Sounds about right. 

[CrazyCarl40]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So using that blueprint, we have 1 season where this new structure will work well before it fails miserably.

Sounds about right. 

I mean, Todd Bowles almost made the playoffs once. The bar is pretty low ‘round these parts. Most here will take 6 wins next season and be like “Told ya so!” Big improvement!

[DMan77]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So using that blueprint, we have 1 season where this new structure will work well before it fails miserably.

Sounds about right. 

Haha pretty much.

Although if you go with the 63 flights and look at them as games, that's more optimistic... 63 games, or 3.9 seasons? 

[Jetsfan80]

23 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Adam Gase is the head coach- that's his title for a reason. He has 3 years of head coaching experience. 

Sean Payton, Andy Reid, McVay

3/4 Championship game head coaches are defacto OCs that really focus on that side of the ball. 

Not a new idea... AT ALL. Ever heard of a guy named Bill Walsh?

"CEO" head coaches are the most overrated thing in the world.  

The problem is we have limited evidence that Gase is an elite OC or "innovator" anywhere close to the level of those guys you listed.

If he ends up being a tremendous OC, this system will work well. 

And like it or not, a HC still needs to have the personality to work with guys.  Even if he is the HC in title only, he needs to be able to step in if, say, maniac Gregg Williams is getting tuned out by players who don't respond well to him.  He can't just be an OC and ignore the rest of the roster all the time. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I mean, Todd Bowles almost made the playoffs once. The bar is pretty low ‘round these parts. Most here will take 6 wins next season and be like “Told ya so!” Big improvement!

As I mentioned in another thread, our last 5 HC's (Parcells, Herm, Mangini, Rex, Bowles) all won either 9 or 10 games in each of their first seasons on the job.  So Gase doing the same here wouldn't/shouldn't be all that surprising. 

[nico002]

5 minutes ago, slats said:

I don't like it. I prefer a CEO-type head coach. My hope here is that Gase is that good with QBs, and Darnold does get developed the right way. Then, if the wins aren't coming, a well developed Darnold attracts an even better coach down the line. 

I've read that Williams is negotiating a 3-year deal, which seems odd (not that I've seen the terms of Gase's deal, yet, but I'd expect four years, at least). Do they expect Gase to grow on the job and become more of that CEO?

... why? So that our hot OC can be hired as a head coach somewhere and Darnold has to start from zero again?

the identity of this team will be offense and Sam Darnold. Think Saints with Sean Payton and Drew Beees, or 49ers and Bill Walsh/Montana, Packers with Holmgren/Farve.

[nico002]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The problem is we have limited evidence that Gase is an elite OC or "innovator" anywhere close to the level of those guys you listed.

If he ends up being a tremendous OC, this system will work well. 

And like it or not, a HC still needs to have the personality to work with guys.  Even if he is the HC in title only, he needs to be able to step in if, say, maniac Gregg Williams is getting tuned out by players who don't respond well to him.  He can't just be an OC and ignore the rest of the roster all the time. 

Adam Gase was an extremely successful OC, made chicken salad of chicken sh*t with injured QBs in Miami. He is a highly respected offensive coach. There is a reason the most cerebral player in NFL history (Peyton) has advocated so strongly for him. None of the HOF coaches I mentioned above were more successful than Gase until they were matched with their “muse” QB.

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Adam Gase was an extremely successful OC, made chicken salad of chicken sh*t with injured QBs in Miami. He is a highly respected offensive coach. There is a reason the most cerebral player in NFL history (Peyton) has advocated so strongly for him. None of the HOF coaches I mentioned above were more successful than Gase until they were matched with their “muse” QB. 

No, he didn't.  I demonstrated that in another thread:

 

 

Philbin did better with Tannehill in 2014 than Gase ever did in his Miami tenure.  Gase's only quantifiable success stories were:  1) Getting Manning to play at an elite level in 2014, when his body started breaking down, and 2) Doing better with Cutler in 2015 than Aaron Kromer did in 2014.

QB whisperer, he has NOT proven to be so far in his career. 

[bitonti]

The Jets have 2 head coaches. Adam Gase, and the voice inside Gase's head that tells him to kill everybody 

[Chrebetfan80]

14 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Well as long as there is proper communication between these coordinators and they understand that Gase has final say on “in-general situations” and Gase often wants to make a collaborative effort to solve the decisions that rise, things will be okay.

I’d also like to say that Matt Burke is one garbage ass DC and Gase hasn’t yet had a guy like Gregg Williams, who can completely take over his side of the ball without Gase having to worry about a thing. This bodes well for Gase and will allow him to really dig into his comfort zone as a coach and get it going with Sam and the offense.

Gregg Williams was a bigger hire than people think. It’s not just about getting an aggressive, tough, gritty and effective coach. It’s about the true freedom that it gives Adam Gase and the potential success this team can see in all three phases of the game.

This is really what i think he learned alot about from his first stint in miami, i think he originally wanted to oversee everything, and be that CEO style head coach (all while calling the offensive plays).. The problem is you cant say "im going to call the offense" then be a CEO style coach and check in on and manage the defense and special teams too. It's too much and things get sloppy.

 

I think gase realizes now if he wants to get the most out of the offense his focus needs to be there, and he needed a coach to be able to handle the defense the way he'd be handling the offense.  He's said in interviews' he'll check in with the defense and let them know the time out situation, or situationally if he sees the offense doing something, but he said that he "doesnt want to micromanage" since he knows "how annoying it is to have someone looking over your shoulder while trying to call plays"

 

This williams marriage is as close to perfect a hire as you can get for gase, personality wise, style wise, and actual football acumen wise. 

[slats]

3 minutes ago, nico002 said:

... why? So that our hot OC can be hired as a head coach somewhere and Darnold has to start from zero again?

the identity of this team will be offense and Sam Darnold. Think Saints with Sean Payton and Drew Beees, or 49ers and Bill Walsh/Montana, Packers with Holmgren/Farve.

If you've read more than one post from me on the subject, you know I'm supportive of the hire. That said, each of the coaches you've named here was/is an actual head coach, not an OC with a head coach title. This, combined with both the GM and HC individually reporting to the owner, just seems like a very weak structure. 

So I'm left to hope that Gase gets the most out of Darnold and/or grows as a head coach. 

[Jet Nut]

This place gets funnier every day.  

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

This place gets funnier every day.  

"Oh man, look at these people getting all worked up about the team going 10-34 the last 3 years and showing few signs of growing up as a franchise.  They don't know how good they have it!"

[Joe W. Namath]

42 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Adam Gase is the head coach- that's his title for a reason. He has 3 years of head coaching experience. 

Sean Payton, Andy Reid, McVay

3/4 Championship game head coaches are defacto OCs that really focus on that side of the ball. 

Not a new idea... AT ALL. Ever heard of a guy named Bill Walsh?

"CEO" head coaches are the most overrated thing in the world. 

This.

[dbatesman]

43 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Adam Gase is the head coach- that's his title for a reason. He has 3 years of head coaching experience. 

Sean Payton, Andy Reid, McVay

3/4 Championship game head coaches are defacto OCs that really focus on that side of the ball. 

Not a new idea... AT ALL. Ever heard of a guy named Bill Walsh?

"CEO" head coaches are the most overrated thing in the world. 

Cool, cool. Hey so what if the defense takes a huge step back next season and Gase wants to fire Williams. Is he allowed to do that?

[JoJoTownsell1]

Mcvay runs the offense and lets Wade Phillips do his thing on defense. It's clearly been a Trainwreck for that franchise.

[UntouchableCrew]

I think the case is being overstated to a certain degree -- like Gase and Williams will truly be equals and will take turns managing the game.

Look, we (at least most of us) wanted an offensive guy to develop Darnold and that's what we got. His primary focus will be offense and he's calling offensive plays. The system will be his and he'll be linked at the hip with the young franchise QB. Williams will have a fair amount of autonomy and Gase won't be dictating much about how he runs his defense outside of big picture situational stuff.

Isn't that a good thing? Every time Bowles stuck his beak into the offensive meetings it seemed to involve calls to run the ball more or anoint Ryan Fitzpatrick. We cycled through three offensive coordinators in four years because he couldn't keep one around or pick a guy he liked.

If you have a CEO type you're confident in making all the hires, that's great. We wen't with the "guru" because the hire was all about Sam. Given that, this type of hire makes perfect sense and Gase seems completely on board with it.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

13 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

This is really what i think he learned alot about from his first stint in miami, i think he originally wanted to oversee everything, and be that CEO style head coach (all while calling the offensive plays).. The problem is you cant say "im going to call the offense" then be a CEO style coach and check in on and manage the defense and special teams too. It's too much and things get sloppy.

 

I think gase realizes now if he wants to get the most out of the offense his focus needs to be there, and he needed a coach to be able to handle the defense the way he'd be handling the offense.  He's said in interviews' he'll check in with the defense and let them know the time out situation, or situationally if he sees the offense doing something, but he said that he "doesnt want to micromanage" since he knows "how annoying it is to have someone looking over your shoulder while trying to call plays"

 

This williams marriage is as close to perfect a hire as you can get for gase, personality wise, style wise, and actual football acumen wise. 

Hope you are right regarding personalities. Any inkling as to whether Gase or Mccarthy was number two for them? 

[More Cowbell]

54 minutes ago, DMan77 said:

I'm stealing this from SAR I's (Apologies, sir!) excellent Mike Francesa thread because I think it deserves it's own broader discussion.

It sounds very much from what we've heard and read that the Jets are going to be running more of a 3 coordinator system rather than a HC ->Coordinator -> Position coach hierarchy. Gase even basically said he wanted someone with a HC mentality to run the defense. They want someone who can work mostly independent of the HC so Gase can focus on the QB and the offense. 

It's an interesting idea, and it definitely takes the right kind of coaches and personalities. I think there are a lot of coaches (Bowles...) who would have a hard time turning that kind of control over and running this kind of system... Afterall, even if Gase has little to do with the defense he has Head Coach next to his name, so he'll still take the brunt of the criticism if it flounders. 

LA was the tip of the spear with this concept and it's worked... Maybe for once the Jets are getting in on the newest trends early.

It's a risky way to do things, but I'm excited to see how things play out. 

 

Isn't  this pretty  much what Rex did 3xcept with Defense? Im not even sure Rex could name the guys on offense.  

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

Cool, cool. Hey so what if the defense takes a huge step back next season and Gase wants to fire Williams. Is he allowed to do that?

Why are you guys acting like the Jets are the only team not employing a CEO HC approach? 

For instance, See the Rams with McVay and Wade Phillips, or really, the Saints during any year of Sean Payton's reign.