KC & Baltimore - How It's Done

[JetsLife]

Watched the full highlights from Sunday. Two young, gifted QBs going at it. Too bad you can't be a fan of more than one team; of course that's sacrilege.

But one can appreciate watching teams properly utilize their gifted young QBs. Tailoring game plans to their skill sets. Imaginative play calling, looking to push the ball down field, keeping the opposing defense off balance, virtually zero throwaway wasted play calls. And so on. As the Pats & other cutting-edge offenses run by competent modern-day OCs do virtually every week. Other than the Pats truly a joy to watch, if a bit disheartening as a Jets fan.

 

[shawn306]

Just think you have to give it time. What you saw from Darnold late in the season gives you hope. Right now with a very bad OL and QB down with Mono it is kind of hard to generate any kind of an imaginative offense.

Let's not go out and start making Jackson to be this great QB just yet. While I like what the Ravens have done on offense to push what he does well righrt now, his two good games were against Miami and Arizona. His game against the Chiefs his completion percentage went down to like 50 percent.

You hope that when Darnold gets healthy and they can get the OL in some kind of order that we will start the see the Darnold we saw towards the end of last season.

 

[JustInFudge]

Balt. brought in RG3 in clean up duty and he went 6/6 with 1 TD and they have 1 WR on the team with more than 6 receptions and he's a rookie.

Coaching matters. 

 

[Butterfield]

47 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

Just think you have to give it time. What you saw from Darnold late in the season gives you hope. Right now with a very bad OL and QB down with Mono it is kind of hard to generate any kind of an imaginative offense.

Let's not go out and start making Jackson to be this great QB just yet. While I like what the Ravens have done on offense to push what he does well righrt now, his two good games were against Miami and Arizona. His game against the Chiefs his completion percentage went down to like 50 percent.

You hope that when Darnold gets healthy and they can get the OL in some kind of order that we will start the see the Darnold we saw towards the end of last season.

 

He really wasn’t that great late in the season.  Better than he was earlier, but not like these other qbs.

[BornJetsFan1983]

46 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

Just think you have to give it time. What you saw from Darnold late in the season gives you hope. Right now with a very bad OL and QB down with Mono it is kind of hard to generate any kind of an imaginative offense.

Let's not go out and start making Jackson to be this great QB just yet. While I like what the Ravens have done on offense to push what he does well righrt now, his two good games were against Miami and Arizona. His game against the Chiefs his completion percentage went down to like 50 percent.

You hope that when Darnold gets healthy and they can get the OL in some kind of order that we will start the see the Darnold we saw towards the end of last season.

 

Your mistaken. You fail to realize last year Darnold makes no growth with this coach last year. Poster said it best. Our offense best case scenario is what Darnold did in week 1. 

 

[BornJetsFan1983]

18 minutes ago, JiF said:

Balt. brought in RG3 in clean up duty and he went 6/6 with 1 TD and they have 1 WR on the team with more than 6 receptions and he's a rookie.

Coaching matters. 

 

I have never agreed with anyone more so than you right now.

Fire Gase now. First time in years the jets actually get some off talent and we hire a guy who refuses to call plays that can actually work.

[jgb]

Remember when some posters were saying Ozzie Newsome lost his touch and they wouldn’t want the Jets to touch him with a 10 foot pole?

[phill1c]

26 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I have never agreed with anyone more so than you right now.

Fire Gase now. First time in years the jets actually get some off talent and we hire a guy who refuses to call plays that can actually work.

If your OL can't block, you can call the best play and it just won't get done. This OL can't hold a clock long enough to give ANY QB confidence and time to improvise. the OL has made the Jets offense solely one-read.

but, my issue is with going into the season with the gaping holes that simply weren't addressed. The kicker situation. the CB situation. The OL situation, the edge rusher situation. Yeah, injuries have crippled, but wow, so many situations left un- or under-addressed.

They need to go with Harrison and ANYONE at RG to start with. I'm going to give Beachum one more game to get his stuff together but they need to get the inside cleaned up. if that means benching some people who have fat (for their play) contracts or maybe it's embarrassing because you brought some old geezer on in error just do it!! The guys inside are getting manhandled every play. Beachum as well but he's gone against better talent is just terrible vs. "the worst".

Glad they got that 6-3 guy. We're like Goodwill shoppers at this point.

[UntouchableCrew]

38 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

He really wasn’t that great late in the season.  Better than he was earlier, but not like these other qbs.

He had the best QBR in the NFL. He certainly wasn't Mahomes level but he was very good.

[UntouchableCrew]

56 minutes ago, JiF said:

Balt. brought in RG3 in clean up duty and he went 6/6 with 1 TD and they have 1 WR on the team with more than 6 receptions and he's a rookie.

Coaching matters. 

 

Completely agree. When you look around the NFL how other teams deal with injuries and produce with backup QBs it kind of boggles my mind people keep making excuses for Gase.

We were told he was an "innovator" and a "QB guru." I see nothing of the sort. We look woefully unprepared on offense and nothing about his scheme or playcalling appears to be even at an average level... 

And this is something Dolphins fans have been saying for years.

[David Harris]

Darnold and Bell are all we got; Herndon when he gets off suspension. Keep Robby and Crowder. Everybody else is expendable.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Completely agree. When you look around the NFL how other teams deal with injuries and produce with backup QBs it kind of boggles my mind people keep making excuses for Gase.

We were told he was an "innovator" and a "QB guru." I see nothing of the sort. We look woefully unprepared on offense and nothing about his scheme or playcalling appears to be even at an average level... 

And this is something Dolphins fans have been saying for years.

No wippinz?

[GeraldSowell33]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

Balt. brought in RG3 in clean up duty and he went 6/6 with 1 TD and they have 1 WR on the team with more than 6 receptions and he's a rookie.

Coaching matters. 

 

Marty Morninweig?

[BurnleyJet]

Their playing a different sport really. It’s like learning the guitar, thinking your good then Jimmy Hendrix turns up..

[Butterfield]

2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

He had the best QBR in the NFL. He certainly wasn't Mahomes level but he was very good.

I’d have to take a look at those numbers again.  He had 1 very good game, and 1 pretty good game and 2 average ones.  Definitely better than he was playing, I will agree with that.  Overall, it was a very up and down year.  

[UntouchableCrew]

25 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

I’d have to take a look at those numbers again.  He had 1 very good game, and 1 pretty good game and 2 average ones.  Definitely better than he was playing, I will agree with that.  Overall, it was a very up and down year.  

Generally speaking I'd say there were four stages to Darnold's year:

Stage 1, the first six games. He was very up and down -- good against the Lions, Colts and Broncos, bad against the Dolphins, Browns, and Jaguars. Kind of what you'd expect from a rookie.

Stage 2, he struggles. Next three games he was pretty bad, which not so coincidentally coincided with Anderson and Enunwa both getting injured. Generally bad against the Vikings and Bears and then imploded in a season worst god awful performance at Miami.

Stage 3, out injured. Obviously he missed the next three games.

Stage 4, the comeback. Leads the NFL in QBR over the final four weeks with very strong performances against the BIlls, Texans and Packers. Wasn't great against the Pats Week 17 but wasn't bad enough to kill his numbers from this period.

Overall it was kind of a typically rookie year, but one where he showed more promise than guys like Goff and Trubisky who ultimately had second year leaps under good offensive coordinators. Unfortunately we hired Adam Gase, so our guy is fighting an uphill battle.    

[talisaynon]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

Balt. brought in RG3 in clean up duty and he went 6/6 with 1 TD and they have 1 WR on the team with more than 6 receptions and he's a rookie.

Coaching matters. 

 

Organizations matter. Top to bottom. Competent org structure and accountability with a clear hierarchy of who is reporting to whom. A group of people in the organization focused on analytics with a highly developed and elite scouting team. 

Jets don't have any of that. This org is the Johnson's plaything.

[rammagen]

3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Completely agree. When you look around the NFL how other teams deal with injuries and produce with backup QBs it kind of boggles my mind people keep making excuses for Gase.

We were told he was an "innovator" and a "QB guru." I see nothing of the sort. We look woefully unprepared on offense and nothing about his scheme or playcalling appears to be even at an average level... 

And this is something Dolphins fans have been saying for years.

I have been saying this since they hired him I hope they turn things around but it looks unlikely. Gase got his jobs/promotion through hard work until Peyton then something flipped and he got an ego he did not deserve. Peyton made him not the the way around.

Just look at the other threads poeple saying it was his 3rd string qb the oline sucks ...yada yada yada he has had this team since the beginning of the off season if the oline sucks it is his fault they went from 14th to the 23rd or 24th rating that is gase, and nothing was done to correct this so far. 

He benches Adams for playing out of control fine but he sends out the same oline that has not performed for 3 straight games out there. Where is the equality players see this and think wtf.

I can not see any defense of this man until he actually shows something to improve the team. We hired a coach that was a loser has a loosing record and I was told that that was not his fault either. When does it become his fault?

[Embrace the Suck]

3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Completely agree. When you look around the NFL how other teams deal with injuries and produce with backup QBs it kind of boggles my mind people keep making excuses for Gase. 

Other teams have young talented players to step up. That relies on something called drafting, maybe you heard of it. It works even better when teams do a good job drafting in most of the rounds more years than not. Has Gase been in charge of the draft the past decade? Which by the way isn't an excuse it's a simple fact, disguised as a rhetorical question, which you should be able to understand. Gase may end up sucking, but stop acting like he assembled this team over the past few years.  What you're seeing now is the culmination of more than a decade of crap drafts and no plan other than surviving another year in the front office.

[Sonny Werblin]

4 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Completely agree. When you look around the NFL how other teams deal with injuries and produce with backup QBs it kind of boggles my mind people keep making excuses for Gase.

We were told he was an "innovator" and a "QB guru." I see nothing of the sort. We look woefully unprepared on offense and nothing about his scheme or playcalling appears to be even at an average level... 

And this is something Dolphins fans have been saying for years.

But the players didn’t. For the mist part the O players liked him and his schemes. And so far, the jet players seem to think the concepts are winners, they just are crappy football players.

[fusionCA]

the front office for the last 10 years in Baltimore was Ozzie Newsome and Eric De costa

for Kansas it was John Dorsey and Andy Reid 

 

now think about the front office for the Jets the last 10 years....thats all you need to know 

[TuscanyTile2]

We need to follow the Kansas City model.

[TuscanyTile2]

6 hours ago, JetsLife said:

Watched the full highlights from Sunday. Two young, gifted QBs going at it. Too bad you can't be a fan of more than one team; of course that's sacrilege.

But one can appreciate watching teams properly utilize their gifted young QBs. Tailoring game plans to their skill sets. Imaginative play calling, looking to push the ball down field, keeping the opposing defense off balance, virtually zero throwaway wasted play calls. And so on. As the Pats & other cutting-edge offenses run by competent modern-day OCs do virtually every week. Other than the Pats truly a joy to watch, if a bit disheartening as a Jets fan.

 

KC can really matriculate the ball down the field.

[Butterfield]

2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Generally speaking I'd say there were four stages to Darnold's year:

Stage 1, the first six games. He was very up and down -- good against the Lions, Colts and Broncos, bad against the Dolphins, Browns, and Jaguars. Kind of what you'd expect from a rookie.

Stage 2, he struggles. Next three games he was pretty bad, which not so coincidentally coincided with Anderson and Enunwa both getting injured. Generally bad against the Vikings and Bears and then imploded in a season worst god awful performance at Miami.

Stage 3, out injured. Obviously he missed the next three games.

Stage 4, the comeback. Leads the NFL in QBR over the final four weeks with very strong performances against the BIlls, Texans and Packers. Wasn't great against the Pats Week 17 but wasn't bad enough to kill his numbers from this period.

Overall it was kind of a typically rookie year, but one where he showed more promise than guys like Goff and Trubisky who ultimately had second year leaps under good offensive coordinators. Unfortunately we hired Adam Gase, so our guy is fighting an uphill battle.    

That is reasonable.  

[phill1c]

5 hours ago, rammagen said:

Just look at the other threads poeple saying it was his 3rd string qb the oline sucks ...yada yada yada he has had this team since the beginning of the off season if the oline sucks it is his fault they went from 14th to the 23rd or 24th rating that is gase, and nothing was done to correct this so far.

Yeah but...

He didn't have the starting OL since the beginning of the offseason. He had them together only since the beginning of the 1st quarter of the last preseason game and decided not to play them. IMO, he could have had them since high school and it wouldn't matter all that much: THEY SUCK!!!

and as much as posters--season after season after season--want to believe that a QB and one or two weapons alone can do anything, it should be clear by the Jets offensive (pun intended) production and lack thereof over damn near a decade that you need an offensive line to be productive. The Jets don't have that and haven't had that since 2010.

I'm certainly not saying that the Jets aren't deficient in a number of areas besides OL, but if the OL was better, those other areas wouldn't be as noticeable. The OL is the engine for the offense and if you only have a 2hp engine and the good teams have 5-7hp engines, you can't do anything.

And, really, this is a 1st year program, as much as it isn't for fans. 

[Mastenpark]

9 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Your mistaken. You fail to realize last year Darnold makes no growth with this coach last year. Poster said it best. Our offense best case scenario is what Darnold did in week 1. 

 

8pts and around a 175 passing. That’s backup QB stats.

[BornJetsFan1983]

4 hours ago, Mastenpark said:

8pts and around a 175 passing. That’s backup QB stats.

Barely. Well actually it's not. See Jax, nyg, etc

[Jetster]

4 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Barely. Well actually it's not. See Jax, nyg, etc

The dude was playing with Mono. Let's see how he looks when he gets his strength back. 

[varjet]

Based on prior history, having Darnold coached by Gase is an improvement over Jeremy Bates.   The offense looks so bad right now that the reasons for it are not necessarily explicable, but the talent level is obviously affecting everything anyone can do.  

McCarthy could have been a better QB guru than Gase, but he appears to have become stale and his cost probably scared away CJ. That was before CJ started spending money. 

Gase could be one and done here.  I don’t see more than 2 years.   I think we know better in November than now. 

[UntouchableCrew]

16 hours ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Other teams have young talented players to step up. That relies on something called drafting, maybe you heard of it. It works even better when teams do a good job drafting in most of the rounds more years than not. Has Gase been in charge of the draft the past decade? Which by the way isn't an excuse it's a simple fact, disguised as a rhetorical question, which you should be able to understand. Gase may end up sucking, but stop acting like he assembled this team over the past few years.  What you're seeing now is the culmination of more than a decade of crap drafts and no plan other than surviving another year in the front office.

Right, so you're in the "nobody in the league could score points with this talent" camp -- essentially claiming our talent is so bad that an "offensive innovator" has no chance to do anything with them.

I'm not.

[southparkcpa]

23 hours ago, JetsLife said:

Watched the full highlights from Sunday. Two young, gifted QBs going at it. Too bad you can't be a fan of more than one team; of course that's sacrilege.

But one can appreciate watching teams properly utilize their gifted young QBs. Tailoring game plans to their skill sets. Imaginative play calling, looking to push the ball down field, keeping the opposing defense off balance, virtually zero throwaway wasted play calls. And so on. As the Pats & other cutting-edge offenses run by competent modern-day OCs do virtually every week. Other than the Pats truly a joy to watch, if a bit disheartening as a Jets fan.

 

Not to mention real GM's....., experienced coaching.

[Philc1]

24 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Not to mention real GM's....., experienced coaching.

Ravens have a real GM and great ownership 

 

Jets have the exact opposite 

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, varjet said:

Based on prior history, having Darnold coached by Gase is an improvement over Jeremy Bates.   The offense looks so bad right now that the reasons for it are not necessarily explicable, but the talent level is obviously affecting everything anyone can do.  

McCarthy could have been a better QB guru than Gase, but he appears to have become stale and his cost probably scared away CJ. That was before CJ started spending money. 

Gase could be one and done here.  I don’t see more than 2 years.   I think we know better in November than now. 

I’d take Bates over Gase anytime Gase is a clown 

[rammagen]

14 hours ago, phill1c said:

Yeah but...

He didn't have the starting OL since the beginning of the offseason. He had them together only since the beginning of the 1st quarter of the last preseason game and decided not to play them. IMO, he could have had them since high school and it wouldn't matter all that much: THEY SUCK!!!

and as much as posters--season after season after season--want to believe that a QB and one or two weapons alone can do anything, it should be clear by the Jets offensive (pun intended) production and lack thereof over damn near a decade that you need an offensive line to be productive. The Jets don't have that and haven't had that since 2010.

I'm certainly not saying that the Jets aren't deficient in a number of areas besides OL, but if the OL was better, those other areas wouldn't be as noticeable. The OL is the engine for the offense and if you only have a 2hp engine and the good teams have 5-7hp engines, you can't do anything.

And, really, this is a 1st year program, as much as it isn't for fans. 

he jhad the the starting offensive line since they signed kalil the decision to sit him was on the Gase and the staff. they should have played them earlier

[Embrace the Suck]

10 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Right, so you're in the "nobody in the league could score points with this talent" camp -- essentially claiming our talent is so bad that an "offensive innovator" has no chance to do anything with them.

I'm not.

No, I'm not in that camp. I am in the camp that looks rationally at things (most of the time). 3rd string qb. Dog #@%$ oline that is another year older which can't run or pass block. First year in a new system. Context matters, sorry if I'm not blindly calling for Gase's head after week 3.