Darnold Footwork

[msena88]

This was obviously one of his biggest flaws coming out of ‘SC but he had made big strides in the pre draft process and throughout last season. That has obviously taken a step back in a big way and I’ve noticed a big change in how he sets up pre snap in shotgun this year versus last. Screenshots below but this year he is setting up both feet parallel versus last year he had his right leg staggered forward. In the staggered set it would force him to kind of spin around once he had the ball and get his feet set, this year he seems to be staying closer to how he was aligned pre snap once the ball is snapped.

Now I know about as much as this offensive staff when it comes to QB fundamentals but curious if anyone on here who played the position can weigh in.

[New York Mick]

Don’t worry, he’s got this 

[Sonny Werblin]

Could the toe injury explain this? He hurt it in the Pats game. Do you have clips from games before the Pats game showing this?  

 

BTW, the book on QB footwork says that his feet should be staggered when in shotgun formation.

Quote

The knees should be slightly bent in an athletic position, with a slight stagger (left foot back for the right-handed quarterback) with the head and eyes up.

https://footballtoolbox.net/quarterback-fundamentals-part-3

 

[sec101row23]

7 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Could the toe injury explain this? He hurt it in the Pats game. Do you have clips from games before the Pats game showing this?  

I don’t think it’s an injury.  His escape routes from the pocket when he is being pressured are getting very sloppy.  Instead of spinning out of it or sliding laterally he is drifting and retreating backwards too much.  This is leading to the back foot throws and under thrown balls.  He’s in a bad place right now, he needs some work.  Hopefully he has the fortitude to work through this and hopefully Gase can guide this kid.  

[New York Mick]

2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I don’t think it’s a injury.  His escape routes from the pocket when he is being pressured are getting very sloppy.  Instead of spinning out of it or sliding laterally he is drifting and retreating backwards too much.  This is leading to the back foot throws and under thrown balls.  He’s in a bad place right now, he needs some work.  Hopefully he has the fortitude to work through this and hopefully Gase can guide this kid.  

He got sacked, hit and pressured so much because of the oline and play calling that he has happy feet. He gets pressure up the middle which forces him back and then gets killed on the outside. He needs to get his confidence back that he’s not going to get killed every play

[Barry McCockinner]

5 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I don’t think it’s an injury.  His escape routes from the pocket when he is being pressured are getting very sloppy.  Instead of spinning out of it or sliding laterally he is drifting and retreating backwards too much.  This is leading to the back foot throws and under thrown balls.  He’s in a bad place right now, he needs some work.  Hopefully he has the fortitude to work through this and hopefully Gase can guide this kid.  

Yea sure.

[nico002]

I noticed the shotgun stance in the buffalo game. 
 

Look, Darnolds footwork had nothing to do with the losses against the jags. Other than the pats game he’s completing 70% of his passes and has made some of the most accurate intermediate throws I’ve ever seen a Jets QB make. 

He’s trying to force it down field to receivers that can’t get open while not having enough time. That is the problem right now.

[sec101row23]

4 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

He got sacked, hit and pressured so much because of the oline and play calling that he has happy feet. He gets pressure up the middle which forces him back and then gets killed on the outside. He needs to get his confidence back that he’s not going to get killed every play

Agreed.   But he still needs to stay disciplined in his approach when being pressured.  I don’t mind his footwork when throwing so much because he can still deliver the ball accurately off platform, but his movement when the pocket breaks down is concerning.  I know it’s tough for a young kid, but he needs to solve this or this will become a major problem. 

[Sonny Werblin]

13 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I don’t think it’s an injury.  His escape routes from the pocket when he is being pressured are getting very sloppy.  Instead of spinning out of it or sliding laterally he is drifting and retreating backwards too much.  This is leading to the back foot throws and under thrown balls.  He’s in a bad place right now, he needs some work.  Hopefully he has the fortitude to work through this and hopefully Gase can guide this kid.  

That's my fear. Seriously, wtf does Gase and Logjam Gergins (or whatever his name is) know about teaching QB technique. Get the kid a real QB coach. Or, do we have to rely on Carson Palmer's brother to teach Sam technique in the off-season?

[Barry McCockinner]

4 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

That's my fear. Seriously, wtf does Gase and Logjam Gergins (or whatever his name is) know about teaching QB technique. Get the kid a real QB coach. Or, do we have to rely on Carson Palmer's brother to teach Sam technique in the off-season?

Gase just tells him "you know what to do". Sometimes you just have to let a baller ball.

[sec101row23]

8 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

That's my fear. Seriously, wtf does Gase and Logjam Gergins (or whatever his name is) know about teaching QB technique. Get the kid a real QB coach. Or, do we have to rely on Carson Palmer's brother to teach Sam technique in the off-season?

Honestly, some of this stuff is pretty basic.  If I’m able to see it, I’m sure an NFL head coach and coordinator can see it.  

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, msena88 said:

This was obviously one of his biggest flaws coming out of ‘SC but he had made big strides in the pre draft process and throughout last season. That has obviously taken a step back in a big way and I’ve noticed a big change in how he sets up pre snap in shotgun this year versus last. Screenshots below but this year he is setting up both feet parallel versus last year he had his right leg staggered forward. In the staggered set it would force him to kind of spin around once he had the ball and get his feet set, this year he seems to be staying closer to how he was aligned pre snap once the ball is snapped.

Now I know about as much as this offensive staff when it comes to QB fundamentals but curious if anyone on here who played the position can weigh in.

Sam Darnold does not know how to play QB.  Talented guy, but is years behind, if he can get there.

[Augustiniak]

33 minutes ago, nico002 said:

I noticed the shotgun stance in the buffalo game. 
 

Look, Darnolds footwork had nothing to do with the losses against the jags. Other than the pats game he’s completing 70% of his passes and has made some of the most accurate intermediate throws I’ve ever seen a Jets QB make. 

He’s trying to force it down field to receivers that can’t get open while not having enough time. That is the problem right now.

the 2nd int he just threw it up there and it looked like the jax db was the wr, he was so far out in front of the jet wr.

[joewilly12]

Sam Darnold"s problems.

OL 

WR's 

Play calling. 

HC 

[jetstream23]

[CTM]

17 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Sam Darnold does not know how to play QB.  Talented guy, but is years behind, if he can get there.

He's a puncher, not a boxer

[nico002]

43 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the 2nd int he just threw it up there and it looked like the jax db was the wr, he was so far out in front of the jet wr.

Yeah, nothing to do with footwork though. The fact that the WR was Vincent Smith probably had something to do with how badly he was beat by the defender as well. 

[JimJaime]

Right now Darnold footwork looks like a fade-away jump shot.. I don’t know if he’s afraid of being hit or what but he looks awful out there in his throwing technique. Which begs WHY ISNT GASE FIXING IT?  And if he has tried and he refuses.. bench him not like we are going anywhere this year.

[msena88]

He just looks off right now, especially if you juxtapose the last few games against last season. Happy feet, jittery, not moving as smoothly all over the field, just overall uncomfortable out there.

I'm not saying his pre snap shotgun setup is the sole issue, but considering how off he looks its fair to start questioning everything.

Never did I think Sam's coaching would be worse when we got rid of JB, crazy to think I somehow miss the mountain man.

[ChuckkieB]

1 hour ago, nico002 said:

 

He’s trying to force it down field to receivers that can’t get open while not having enough time. That is the problem right now.

THIS has been the biggest problem so far.  Yes, he's been throwing off of his back foot and not stepping into his throws but with pressure in his face on every throw, can you blame him?  That is correctable.  Making competent lineman out of no talent bums is not.     

[msena88]

Just now, ChuckkieB said:

THIS has been the biggest problem so far.  Yes, he's been throwing off of his back foot and not stepping into his throws but with pressure in his face on every throw, can you blame him?  That is correctable.  Making competent lineman out of no talent bums is not.     

This is where I have to blame scheme a bit, Edoga is definitely worse than Beachum but they were struggling even with Beachum but otherwise is the talent on the OL really any worse than it was last year? OL was far from a strength last year but considering the talent is relatively the same and they're an absolute sieve, we have to question what's going on scheme wise.

[y2k8]

4 minutes ago, JimJaime said:

Right now Darnold footwork looks like a fade-away jump shot.. I don’t know if he’s afraid of being hit or what but he looks awful out there in his throwing technique. Which begs WHY ISNT GASE FIXING IT?  And if he has tried and he refuses.. bench him not like we are going anywhere this year.

Because "sometimes you gotta let ballers ball." was what he said on the Adam Gase show when breaking down one of his flat footed completions vs Dallas. 

His words, not mine.

[ChuckkieB]

5 minutes ago, msena88 said:

This is where I have to blame scheme a bit, Edoga is definitely worse than Beachum but they were struggling even with Beachum but otherwise is the talent on the OL really any worse than it was last year? OL was far from a strength last year but considering the talent is relatively the same and they're an absolute sieve, we have to question what's going on scheme wise.

 

The scheme has been a disaster. Gase has been unable to adjust the scheme to the lineman he has which is a massive failure on the coaches part. Gase has managed to make Darnold regress. Head coaches don’t survive that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[msena88]

1 minute ago, y2k8 said:

Because "sometimes you gotta let ballers ball." was what he said on the Adam Gase show when breaking down one of his flat footed completions vs Dallas. 

His words, not mine.

It's what he said but he also said from a coaches perspective there is about 50 things wrong with what he did on that play. If you watch that play there wasn't really a way for him to set his feet and make the throw on time.

The issue has been poor footwork in instances where it doesn't need to be poor, throwing off back foot as opposed to a sack, etc...

Gase mentioned this on his conference call yesterday but they need to get him moving more, his fundamentals seemingly improve when hes on the move, especially to his right. Idk how it took this long for the coach to realize they need to do more of this but at least we got there?

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

I don’t think it’s an injury.  His escape routes from the pocket when he is being pressured are getting very sloppy.  Instead of spinning out of it or sliding laterally he is drifting and retreating backwards too much.  This is leading to the back foot throws and under thrown balls.  He’s in a bad place right now, he needs some work.  Hopefully he has the fortitude to work through this and hopefully Gase can guide this kid.  

[y2k8]

Just now, msena88 said:

It's what he said but he also said from a coaches perspective there is about 50 things wrong with what he did on that play. If you watch that play there wasn't really a way for him to set his feet and make the throw on time.

The issue has been poor footwork in instances where it doesn't need to be poor, throwing off back foot as opposed to a sack, etc...

Gase mentioned this on his conference call yesterday but they need to get him moving more, his fundamentals seemingly improve when hes on the move, especially to his right. Idk how it took this long for the coach to realize they need to do more of this but at least we got there?

What struck me about that statement was how flippant it was and I thought emblematic of how they are letting his footwork remain sloppy in instances when it shouldn't be.

Totally agree about Sam on the move. Rolling him away from pressure is something we are always yelling about watching the last few games.  They finally did on the 2nd TD drive.  What took Gase so long to figure out what we all know?

[ZachEY]

13 minutes ago, JimJaime said:

Right now Darnold footwork looks like a fade-away jump shot.. I don’t know if he’s afraid of being hit or what but he looks awful out there in his throwing technique. Which begs WHY ISNT GASE FIXING IT?  And if he has tried and he refuses.. bench him not like we are going anywhere this year.

It's not a matter of Gase not trying to correct it, or Darnold refusing to stop throwing off his back foot.  It's about instincts in real time.  If you put a dog on one side of a fence, and food on the other, the dog will try to dig under the fence to get the food.  Over time, you can teach the dog to go through a hole in the fence.  Starve the dog, and he will forget the hole and go right back to digging for the food.  Darnold = Dog.  Instinct = Digging.  Proper Mechanics = Hole in the Fence.  Starvation = Pressure from Defenses.

[funaz]

I think we've reached the pivotal moment in his development. Once QBs start getting the shakes and getting scared back there it's pretty much over for them. You don't see many QBs turn it around once they reach the point they are scared to be back there. 

I think Darnold has peaked and we are now watching the decent into total bust hood. The book is out on him, you rush him he crumbles. This will be the gameplan against him from every team. 

[msena88]

8 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

It's not a matter of Gase not trying to correct it, or Darnold refusing to stop throwing off his back foot.  It's about instincts in real time.  If you put a dog on one side of a fence, and food on the other, the dog will try to dig under the fence to get the food.  Over time, you can teach the dog to go through a hole in the fence.  Starve the dog, and he will forget the hole and go right back to digging for the food.  Darnold = Dog.  Instinct = Digging.  Proper Mechanics = Hole in the Fence.  Starvation = Pressure from Defenses.

Can we put the starved Dog on one side of the fence and Gase/Loggains on the other?

[Jetster]

When I was 22 I did stupid sh*t. But, I matured & straightened out. I think the same thing will happen for Sam. Fix his Oline, get him some stud weapons that make plays for him, his confidence will soar with his experience & he'll be a PITA for D coordinators for 12-15 years. JD knows this & Macc is long gone. When Wentz got to Philly he played behind an all pro line, threw to an all pro TE, and Jefferies, Aghalor, with a stout D with a great pass rush. 

Sam has none of those things now & its JDs job to change that. 

[msena88]

3 minutes ago, Jetster said:

When I was 22 I did stupid sh*t. But, I matured & straightened out. I think the same thing will happen for Sam. Fix his Oline, get him some stud weapons that make plays for him, his confidence will soar with his experience & he'll be a PITA for D coordinators for 12-15 years. JD knows this & Macc is long gone. When Wentz got to Philly he played behind an all pro line, threw to an all pro TE, and Jefferies, Aghalor, with a stout D with a great pass rush. 

Sam has none of those things now & its JDs job to change that. 

I don't disagree but thats not fixable in one offseason, you're talking minimum 2-3 drafts and FA periods. If the kids confidence is shot by then we are in big trouble.

[Chrebetfan80]

ive done both, ill tell you when i train qbs we start with our feet squared and then push into a drop back from there.  The setup of it really doesnt make too much of a difference, its everything that takes place afterwards that means more.

Darnolds problem right now is his drops arent good, and he's not stepping up into the pocket and getting his feet underneath him on throws.  Most of his throws (especially interceptions) are off his back foot fading away from the line (admittedly due to pressure).   Also if someone can find video of his actual footwork in the pocket its pretty frantic, where as you watch a brady or a rodgers they kind of bounce in place and shift around smoothly instead of stamper and wildly move.  

 

Alot of this will be corrected naturally when the line gets better, but he's got to work on keeping a more sound base to throw from.

[Jet_Engine1]

33 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Props for Col. O'Neill 

[Jet_Engine1]

Did...did someone say footwork?

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, nico002 said:

I noticed the shotgun stance in the buffalo game. 
 

Look, Darnolds footwork had nothing to do with the losses against the jags. Other than the pats game he’s completing 70% of his passes and has made some of the most accurate intermediate throws I’ve ever seen a Jets QB make. 

He’s trying to force it down field to receivers that can’t get open while not having enough time. That is the problem right now.

This is it!

Put the Pats game aside...

And what you have a very good QB play under very difficult circumstances - with a couple of unforced errors that can be easily fixed.  

As you mentioned forcing the ball downfield and throwing up Jump Balls is a problem but he seems to be doing that out of frustration.  He needs to fix that - and if he can I have little doubt he's our franchise QB.