Sam Darnold is a “special” QB

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

The question is whether Sam will accept that it was a poor decision. Brett favre throws that ball in the first game of his career AND the last. It’s hard for guys who’ve made incredible plays their whole lives to “choose” the smart, boring play.

No doubt. And maybe that's just the part of his game that you accept as part of the package, though this wasn't quite a chuck & duck.

Hey, if Darnold has Favre's career - including at least one SB victory - you won't hear too many complaining about it. Yet the truth is if Favre had some more self control they should have been in and/or won a couple more SBs. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

You mean facts?  You're offended because people reference the facts? Really?

I've said it a million times, more than one thing can be true at the same time:  

In this case, the Jets have stabilized and Sam is playing better and probably feels better now post-Mono.  It's ALSO true than two of his three great games were against truly horrible teams, teams worse than us.  One, the Raiders, was a better team, but a team not great in Defense and who is just as likely to finish the year with 8 or less wins.  Pointing out one does not nullify the other, any more than pointing out that Sam's faced challenges on his O-line doesn't nullify his poorer performances this year either.  All must be considered in the whole.

No mate.  No one is rooting against him here, certainly not Jets Fans.  When objectivity and fact-based analysis is considered "rooting against" our guy, there is a serious problem.

Outside of the horrid Pats game and Jags game Sam has played well.  There were more than just scrub teams included.  I know you can’t throw out those bad games but they need closer looks than just saying he sucked.  A lot falls on him but the OL was a huge contributor.  Can’t complete many or decisive passes on your ass.  Leaving the Jags game in, without the Pats his QB rating is over 100.  His comp % is where we all wanted it.  He’s decisive and accurate.  Mobile. Following up the same things over his last 4-5 games a year ago when over that time he was ranked the NFLs top QB.  With this OL, this depleted WR group he’s shown over and over why he was drafted 3rd.  Announcers keep saying just that

Objectivity and especially fact based analysis sounds kind of weak here 

[lounap23]

20 hours ago, Warfish said:

9-2, 66.9% Completions, 220.6 YPG/2,427 Yards, 24 TD's, 5 INT's, 111.4 QB Rating, 876 Yards Rushing and 6 Rushing TD's. 

6-3, 65.6% Completions, 312.0 YPG/2,808 Yards, 19 TD's, 2 INT's, 110.0 QB Rating, #1 in NFL in YPA. 141 Yards Rushing.

And of course....

4-4, 63.9% Completions, 239.4 YPG/1,915 Yards, 13 TD's, 10 INT's, 86.3 QB Rating.  38 Yards Rushing and 2 Rushing TD's.

Also:  Had Mono.  Also, his team started 1-7.

Why on earth, do you think, would anyone talk more about those first two than that third one? 

I get that Jets Fans are encased in a permanent bitter inferiority complex combined with the world worst case of angry little-man syndrome, but come on man. 

Of course they're going to talk about two MVP & Super Bowl candidates more than a guy who had Mono and whose team was out of contention by week 8.

Maybe, when Sam starts to really produce i.e. lives up to all the hype and praise and love he gets here, they'll start talking more about him, too.

So over the 3 game win streak Sam isn't "really producing" going 3-0 with 9 total TDs 1 total turnover  averaging about 280 yds passing a game  QB rating somewhere in the 115 average comp % around 65% over those 3 games.   

 

And all over NFL Radio.  On Twitter with guys like Orlovsky and Baldinger they are talking about Sam.

And what are they saying, same as most people with any average football IQ has been saying.   Sam is a very good QB  he needs is an OL that can give him just a bit of time. I am not saying a good OL.  Any QB in the NFL should look decen t with a good OL.  Stats and film show how good Sam is when he can have an OL thats not a turnstile.

 

 The Jets OL is ranked 31st.   And only 4 times has the OL not been ranked 32nd for the week.    Can you guess what 4 weeks?  Yep all 4 wins they were ranked in the mid 20's... The Mid 20's.  Still not a good OL.   Give the kid a slightly below average OL and the O will function.  God knows what he can do with an average OL and please lets not even talk about a Good OL or even great OL.

Mahomes is producing with a below average OL they are ranked mid 20's.  Clearly an MVP for a reason

Jackson is playing behind a great OL they are ranked 4th or 5th I believe. I love Jackson but I would love to see what he can if the OL play drops to the mid 20's where Mahomes and Darnold have shown they can perform and win

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

3 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

You've watched both Sam and Dak play and you'd prefer Dak?

MVP's don't put up stats like these in a HUGE game (vs the cheats*). You must be a Cowgirls fan.

 

As opposed to what? 86 yards, 4 interceptions, and ghosts?

[Eyes Of Adam]

19 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Too much being made of fancy throws. There are no style points. The position requires you to consistently throw it to the guy. He's had his ups and downs. The last 3 games have been promising and good, but he still has a lot of work to do. He's still 27th overall in DVOA with the last 3 good starts. The Baltimore and Pittsburgh games are going to be benchmark type of matchups.

 

Is DVOA a QB statistic or an offenses statistic? I always thought it was the offense, not the specific QB.

[Untouchable]

6 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

As opposed to what? 86 yards, 4 interceptions, and ghosts?

Dak put up that poop performance while having 3 all-pros along the OL, a Top 3 RB behind him and guys like Cooper and Gallup at wideout.

How is it even comparable?

Dak is the dude seeking upwards of $40 million a year and is surrounded by one of the more talented supporting casts in the league.

Darnold’s performance against the Pats was putrid, but it certainly didn’t break him.

Dak is supposed to be an MVP candidate and is in his 4th season as a starter. Much more should be expected.

[Legend Killa7]

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Outside of the horrid Pats game and Jags game Sam has played well.  There were more than just scrub teams included.  I know you can’t throw out those bad games but they need closer looks than just saying he sucked.  A lot falls on him but the OL was a huge contributor.  Can’t complete many or decisive passes on your ass.  Leaving the Jags game in, without the Pats his QB rating is over 100.  His comp % is where we all wanted it.  He’s decisive and accurate.  Mobile. Following up the same things over his last 4-5 games a year ago when over that time he was ranked the NFLs top QB.  With this OL, this depleted WR group he’s shown over and over why he was drafted 3rd.  Announcers keep saying just that

Objectivity and especially fact based analysis sounds kind of weak here 

precisely.  BB is a football genius.  Personally, I think he exposed a flaw in Sam's game that week.  after his 1st INT, they showed a graphic for Sam previously against the blitz.  I forget exact numbers, but he had 0 INTs, and a very good rating.  4 INTs later, and it messed with his head.  and I think it carried over into the Jags game (ghostbusters?), and to a lesser extent, even the fins game.  Thank God the vagiants are just a dumpster fire and he was able to get back on track!

I think the comparison the Favre I saw ealier here is a great one.  take that throw to Robbie last week:  Sam has a TON of room to easily run for a 1st down, but instead throws a pinpoint pass JUST over the defender for a huge gain.  He took a chance; it paid off.  if the defender jumps an inch higher, EVERYONE is killing him for making a stupid decision when he could have run for an easy 1st down.  It's plays like that:  you have to accept the potential for the bad play in order to get the amazing play.

[Warfish]

7 minutes ago, lounap23 said:

So over the 3 game win streak Sam isn't "really producing" going 3-0 with 9 total TDs 1 total turnover  averaging about 280 yds passing a game  QB rating somewhere in the 115 average comp % around 65% over those 3 games.   

Who said that?  I'm sorry, but I don't feel any need to address Straw Men arguments.

The NFL "likes to talk" about Jackson and Mahomes because Jackson and Mahomes are two of the very best QB's in the NFL in 2019.  They do not talk about Sam Darnold as much because he is not one of the best QB's in the NFL in 2019 and his team was 1-7 and out of contention.

It's mind boggling that this is even a question/issue.

7 minutes ago, lounap23 said:

And what are they saying, same as most people with any average football IQ has been saying.   Sam is a very good QB  he needs is an OL that can give him just a bit of time.

You mean the same things I've been saying all season long?  It's funny how often people miss those posts I guess.

7 minutes ago, lounap23 said:

 The Jets OL is ranked 31st.   And only 4 times has the OL not been ranked 32nd for the week.

Source link please?

In terms of O-line metrics (pressures, hits on QB, Sacks allowed, etc.), the Jets O-line is certainly pretty horrible.  Not worst in the NFL, but in the bottom 5-10 in just about every metric.

In any event, as soon as Sam wins 10 games, and throws for average NFL QB production figures (`4,000+ yards, 30+ TD's to 10 or less INT's) I have no doubt the sunshine kid with all his aw shucks charisma and always-says-the-right-thing'ness will get plenty of pub.

[Warfish]

17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Outside of the horrid Pats game and Jags game Sam has played well.  There were more than just scrub teams included.  I know you can’t throw out those bad games but they need closer looks than just saying he sucked.  A lot falls on him but the OL was a huge contributor.  Can’t complete many or decisive passes on your ass.  Leaving the Jags game in, without the Pats his QB rating is over 100.  His comp % is where we all wanted it.  He’s decisive and accurate.  Mobile. Following up the same things over his last 4-5 games a year ago when over that time he was ranked the NFLs top QB.  With this OL, this depleted WR group he’s shown over and over why he was drafted 3rd.  Announcers keep saying just that

Objectivity and especially fact based analysis sounds kind of weak here 

He played quite well in the first half at Buffalo, he did not play well at all in the second half at Buffalo, he was almost completely ineffective.

He was not great vs. Miami either.  

That is half his season, two pretty horrible games, one meh game and one half good/half horrible game.  And yes, of course the Mono is a factor, laughable as a 22 year old getting Mono before an NFL season is.

Of course the O-line is a factor, no one anywhere is praising this O-line nor defending it.  It's better now, which IS a question of player personnel management.  I've posted a million times before this season screaming at the top of my lungs about the O-line and lets be clear, many folks here called THAT hating the same way they call anything they don't agree with hate.  But I was 100% right about the O-line.  

The WR corp. is no depleted.  It lost one middling WR and replaced him with another middling WR.  Herndon's loss is replaced by Griffith's rise.  And Bell is 100x the receiver any RB last year was.  Sam has a better receiving corp. that he had last year, in total.  

And yes, he's played much better (it's amazing how many times I have to repeat myself here) the past three weeks, but you cannot exclude the fact that two of those tams are #1 overall pick contenders ffs.  if the Raiders finish badly, and they could, and wind up a 9 loss team, that takes some shine away from that win too, especially given how often WE lose when WE fly 3,000+ miles for a West Coast game vs. those same Riaders, lol.

Part of the trouble is people keep hearing what they want to hear (i.e. "YER A HATER!") and ignore the rest, making it very hard and requiring a dozen repeat comments that, yes, we all know mono had an effect, we all know the O-line is generally garbage, we all know Gase was not good most of the season at player management of adapting to what he had (a point I'm sure you will not disagree with given past debates), that losing Siemian, bad as he is, was a killer, and that Falk was garbage, and of course that the first half was the hardest part of our schedule.    No one I see is disagreeing with any of these mitigating factors.  These too are facts.  

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The NFL "likes to talk" about Jackson and Mahomes because Jackson and Mahomes are two of the very best QB's in the NFL in 2019. 

And even more about the best teams in the NFL.   Their production wouldn’t be near the same and talk wouldn’t be all that loud if he played on a team that has struggled like the Jets.  

[lounap23]

18 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Who said that?  I'm sorry, but I don't feel any need to address Straw Men arguments.

The NFL "likes to talk" about Jackson and Mahomes because Jackson and Mahomes are two of the very best QB's in the NFL in 2019.  They do not talk about Sam Darnold as much because he is not one of the best QB's in the NFL in 2019 and his team was 1-7 and out of contention.

It's mind boggling that this is even a question/issue.

You mean the same things I've been saying all season long?  It's funny how often people miss those posts I guess.

Source link please?

In terms of O-line metrics (pressures, hits on QB, Sacks allowed, etc.), the Jets O-line is certainly pretty horrible.  Not worst in the NFL, but in the bottom 5-10 in just about every metric.

In any event, as soon as Sam wins 10 games, and throws for average NFL QB production figures (`4,000+ yards, 30+ TD's to 10 or less INT's) I have no doubt the sunshine kid with all his aw shucks charisma and always-says-the-right-thing'ness will get plenty of pub.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol/2019

 

 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

32 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

As opposed to what? 86 yards, 4 interceptions, and ghosts?

Sounds like Aaron Rodgers the other day vs SF.

[Jet Nut]

17 minutes ago, Warfish said:

He played quite well in the first half at Buffalo, he did not play well at all in the second half at Buffalo, he was almost completely ineffective.

He was not great vs. Miami either.  

 That is half his season, two pretty horrible games, one meh game and one half good/half horrible game.  And yes, of course the Mono is a factor, laughable as a 22 year old getting Mono 

He played a top 3 Defensive team while having the effects of mono.  Played better that day than Brady and other higher thought of QBs did.  Put up enough points to win that game, would have with the 4 other points that should have been put up or if the D closed out a game Like they should have.  

Miami.  One pass, that’s all we remember, hit and knocked down as he was throwing it away.  But because of that it translates to the entire game.  He threw passes at 69%, 260 yds, QB rating just under 90.  Agree Pats, Jags, not good.  That’s not half the season.  That’s two games.  Out of 7?  Off illness, major roster issues & 4 games last year.  

it’s impossible for any of to know how much the mono effected his play, he’ll never admit he was hurting when he returned.  But he also couldn’t practice until that week before his return.  Point isn’t that he’s a top 5 QB yet.  Point is he’s proved a lot give what we’ve seen of his play, is more than hype, from almost everyone who watches him play

[Jet Nut]

18 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The WR corp. is no depleted.  It lost one middling WR and replaced him with another middling WR.  Herndon's loss is replaced by Griffith's rise.  And Bell is 100x the receiver any RB last year was.  Sam has a better receiving corp. that he had last year, in total.  

I don’t know how to answer this.  Emu was was their top WR who’s game would have been a huge addition to the passing game as would have Herndons.  Just look at how Griffin has been used since Sams return.  All part of a mediocre group.  Still hurt.  He has one WR and a guy everyone claimed was a 6th round donation to the pats who was slow, injured and done.  

[jetstream23]

39 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

As opposed to what? 86 yards, 4 interceptions, and ghosts?

 

34 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Dak put up that poop performance while having 3 all-pros along the OL, a Top 3 RB behind him and guys like Cooper and Gallup at wideout.

How is it even comparable?

Dak is the dude seeking upwards of $40 million a year and is surrounded by one of the more talented supporting casts in the league.

Darnold’s performance against the Pats was putrid, but it certainly didn’t break him.

Dak is supposed to be an MVP candidate and is in his 4th season as a starter. Much more should be expected.

It's not.

It's like criticizing Tiger Woods for a bad round of golf if he was forced to play the entire round with hockey sticks instead of golf clubs.

But....some people don't let facts get in the way of a good headline.  

[Jet Nut]

44 minutes ago, Warfish said:

In any event, as soon as Sam wins 10 games, and throws for average NFL QB production figures (`4,000+ yards, 30+ TD's to 10 or less INT's) I have no doubt the sunshine kid with all his aw shucks charisma and always-says-the-right-thing'ness will get plenty of pub.

Teams win 10 games.  QB don’twin totally on their own.  

30TDs or more with fewer than 10 ints are average?  Really?  Name all those with those numbers, add in 4000 yards and the attempts needed to get 4K.  He’s on pace for over 3,800+ with this mess.  Take out a jag game on a higher pace.  He’s on a pace for close to 30 tds, again a lousy team.  
Your underestimating him and what he’s shown

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He played a top 3 Defensive team while having the effects of mono.  Played better that day than Brady and other higher thought of QBs did.  Put up enough points to win that game, would have with the 4 other points that should have been put up or if the D closed out a game Like they should have.

Why do we keep having to have this debate, he did NOT "score enough points" to win.

Buffalo scored 17 points.  Sam and the Offense Scored 10 points, with a missed Field Goal.  17 > 13.  I.e. Not enough to win.

Yes he had Mono.  How Brady did, especially this year, is irrelevant and has nothing to do with Sam.  Mono may excuse the poor play, it does not make poor play into great play.

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 Miami.  One pass, that’s all we remember, hit and knocked down as he was throwing it away.  But because of that it translates to the entire game.  He threw passes at 69%, 260 yds, QB rating just under 90.  Agree Pats, Jags, not good.  That’s not half the season.  That’s two games.  Out of 7?  Off illness, major roster issues & 4 games last year.

Honestly, I'm not interested in the spin.  Yes, he played poorly vs. a Miami team that was without question the worst in the NFL at that moment.   And Bufflao, as stated above, was not "enough to win".  That's 4 games out of 8, or 50%, that were subpar performances.  Again, yes there are mitigating factors.  

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

it’s impossible for any of to know how much the mono effected his play, he’ll never admit he was hurting when he returned.

he doesn;t have to admit it.  Mono is a well known medical condition with well known repercussions and effects. It unquestionably had an effect on him both before (Buffalo) he went out and after he returned.  No one needs to hear him say that for it to be obvious.

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Point isn’t that he’s a top 5 QB yet.

Obviously.  Yet we have alot of folks here loudly proclaiming him better than alot of established producing NFL QB's right now....

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 Point is he’s proved a lot give what we’ve seen of his play, is more than hype, from almost everyone who watches him play

Absolutely.  I've posted it literally a dozen times the past few days.  Sam Darnold has shown enough to warrant ongoing, continued investment in him and in building around him.  

[Jet_Engine1]

Some people can't enjoy anything. For some, nothing is ever good enough, and there is always a negative. 

 

Don't argue with the joyless, it benefits nobody. 

 

Just saying.

[Jet Nut]

55 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

As opposed to what? 86 yards, 4 interceptions, and ghosts?

What Sam does doesn’t make Dak a top QB.  Sam on the Cowboys might just be 

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I don’t know how to answer this.  Emu was was their top WR who’s game would have been a huge addition to the passing game as would have Herndons.

That's just not factual.  Anderson was this teams #1 WR going into the season, not Enunwa.  Enunwa was the #3 and hadn't played regularly since 2017 (the only year he played regularly), and has never been more than a 60 catch, 800 Yard WR at his very brief best.  We're not talking about Wesley Walker in his prime here. His de-facto replacement as the slot #2 WR, Crowder, is frankly better than he was.  Demaryrius Thomas, the #3 after Enunwa got hurt, is basically his clone, production-wise and on-average.

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Just look at how Griffin has been used since Sams return.  All part of a mediocre group.  Still hurt.  He has one WR and a guy everyone claimed was a 6th round donation to the pats who was slow, injured and done.  

Griffin has been used in exactly the same way Herndon was used, and has provides a similar level of production to some degree, once he was "found" by Sam and started getting playing time.  

And again, you cannot consider receiving without also considering Bell, an addition of the single greatest pass-catching RB in NFL history (or pretty close to it).  Bell, as a receiver, is 10x the asset Quincy Enunwa was at his very best.

Is it a great group?  Nope.  As I've said repeatedly, Anderson is completely miscast as a #1 WR, he's a #3 at best (and would be best used as such).  Crowder is solid IMO.  Thomas is meh, as was Enunwa, sadly.  Griffin or whatever his name is is a slight dropoff from Herndon last year, although much of that is he wasn't thrown to till recently (and those Falk games, ugh).    And Bell is very good in the passing game.  The unit is meh, but it's not that bad overall.  It needs a #1 (I'll remind all the "Anderson can be a #1" folks whove argued THAT point with me for years now).

[Warfish]

9 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

For some, nothing is ever good enough, and there is always a negative. 

You're 100% right.

A 1-7 start and de facto elimination by week 8 was not good enough for me.

If it was for you, that's cool.

[Bomberjet]

I'm going thru this entire thread and not one mention of the throw Darnold made to Berrios when Sam had to elude and do a snap/release maneuver to get  the pass away - that was a Dan Marino throw at his best.

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Why do we keep having to have this debate, he did NOT "score enough points" to win.

Buffalo scored 17 points.  Sam and the Offense Scored 10 points, with a missed Field Goal.  17 > 13.  I.e. Not enough to win.

Yes he should have.  They should have scored 20. My mistake.  He still was better against an awesome D than most.  The D lost that game.  .  
 

Yes he had Mono.  How Brady did, especially this year, is irrelevant and has nothing to do with Sam.  Mono may excuse the poor play, it does not make poor play into great play.

How Brady and every othe QB is actually very relevant.  Not getting this part of the debate.  it points to the strength of that D

Honestly, I'm not interested in the spin.  Yes, he played poorly vs. a Miami team that was without question the worst in the NFL at that moment.   And Bufflao, as stated above, was not "enough to win".  That's 4 games out of 8, or 50%, that were subpar performances.  Again, yes there are mitigating factors.  

He wasn’t sub par vs the two teams you claim, I don’t care how you slice it.  I don’t see how opponents and the D along with numbers against Miami are tossed out
 

he doesn;t have to admit it.  Mono is a well known medical condition with well known repercussions and effects. It unquestionably had an effect on him both before (Buffalo) he went out and after he returned.  No one needs to hear him say that for it to be obvious.

Agreed

Obviously.  Yet we have alot of folks here loudly proclaiming him better than alot of established producing NFL QB's right now....

Who and which QBs?  I haven’t seen a lot of this.  Potential yes, I’m saying it’s proving out and disagreeing with you calling him, his game nothing but hype.

Flow down to >>>>>>>

Absolutely.  I've posted it literally a dozen times the past few days.  Sam Darnold has shown enough to warrant ongoing, continued investment in him and in building around him.  

 

[Warfish]

25 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Teams win 10 games.  QB don’twin totally on their own.

Agreed.

Quote

30TDs or more with fewer than 10 ints are average?  Really?

For QB's who played 16 games in 2018, the collective average production was 378 for 567 (66.3%) for 4,334 Yards, with 29.25 TD's and 10.5 INT's.

Since we're being specific. ?

The players that make up this average are:  Rothlisberger, Luck, Cousins, Ryan, Rodgers, Keenum, Mahomes, Manning, Brady, Goff, Stafford, Carr, Prescott, Rivers, Watson and Wilson.

Add a few 14 and 15 game starters (knowing they have one-to-two games less production), Brees, Mayfield, Newton and Trubisky, and the average becomes 366 for 548 (669%) for 4,184 Yards, 28.75 TD's and 10.6 INT's.

I wasn't making it up my friend. 

Source: 2018 Passing Stats, Pro Football Reference, averaged in Excel.

Quote

Name all those with those numbers, add in 4000 yards and the attempts needed to get 4K.

See above.

Quote

 He’s on pace for over 3,800+ with this mess.

Per ESPN he is projected to finish 2019 with 2,785 Yards, 19 TD's and 15 INT's.  Source, ESPN's Sam Darnold page, under "Projections".

Quote

Your underestimating him and what he’s shown

How so?  I've not said a thing in this exchange about my future expectations for him, about which I've been nothing but positive.

Quote

How Brady and every othe QB is actually very relevant.  Not getting this part of the debate.  it points to the strength of that D

No, it speaks more about the low quality of the Patriots Offense this year, performance so bad there have been an assortment of articles pointing out exactly how bad the Patriots Offense is this year.

[Jet Nut]

15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Per ESPN he is projected to finish 2019 with 2,785 Yards, 19 TD's and 15 INT's.  Source, ESPN's Sam Darnold page, under "Projections".

Not trying to argue anywhere here but hes thrown for what 1915 yards in 8 games Accor to pro football ref?   That’s 239 per, over 3,800 projected over 16.  13 TDS over 8 translates to 26 TDS.  Not bad for a developing QB on a lean roster who had some of his time effected by mono.  Much better without the 85 in Jax, I know we can’t but just saying for fun.  

[JohnnyLV]

The way people view Sam is very interesting. Some just cannot get past a couple of really bad games, and regardless of what he does outside of those games, they just go back to the bad games over and over and over as if they is the accurate representation of him, not all the other games. Someone posted a statistic that if you remove the NE game, Sam's overall performance is terrific. But many just can get past those games, and ignore how much they skew the statistical picture of his performance.

For many, interceptions seem to be the only measure of a QB. Even if he throws 4 TDs some will bemoan the interception over and over and just ignore all other elements of his play.

I have a theory that people have a personal perception of what a QB should be. Their own mental model so to speak. I think for many on this board, the model of the QB that is just a game manager who doesn't turn the ball over and doesn't take risks is the perfect QB. That model has been drilled into Jets fans heads from the Parcells days. Parcells, Herm, Mangini, Rex, Bowles all wanted that "game manager" type guy that would just not be a negative and allow the defense to win. An Alex Smith like QB, that has been what has been preached by Jets HCs for a very long time.

Sam Darnold is not that guy in any way, shape of form. He is an aggressive QB that thinks he can make any throw and save any down. He takes risks, most of which turn out well bit some don't. The game manager model guys just see that as "bad decisions" or not "protecting the football"

So no matter what Sam does he will never be "they guy" in their eyes because he is just not of that mold, that mental picture they have of the QB,

 

 

 

[Warfish]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Not trying to argue anywhere here but hes thrown for what 1915 yards in 8 games Accor to pro football ref?   That’s 239 per, over 3,800 projected over 16.  Much better without the 85 in Jax, I know we can’t but just saying for fun.  

Fair enough, we're discussing two different things. 

"On pace" generally means "where will he finish the season".  That's ESPN's 2,700+ number.

Inflated for 16 games is a bit different, and yes, while I'm not going to do the math myself (I do enough math most days!) I'll take your number at face value and accept it as a 16-game-inflated number based on actual + projection inflated to 16 games.

[Legend Killa7]

50 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He played a top 3 Defensive team while having the effects of mono.  Played better that day than Brady and other higher thought of QBs did.  Put up enough points to win that game, would have with the 4 other points that should have been put up or if the D closed out a game Like they should have.  

Miami.  One pass, that’s all we remember, hit and knocked down as he was throwing it away.  But because of that it translates to the entire game.  He threw passes at 69%, 260 yds, QB rating just under 90.  Agree Pats, Jags, not good.  That’s not half the season.  That’s two games.  Out of 7?  Off illness, major roster issues & 4 games last year.  

it’s impossible for any of to know how much the mono effected his play, he’ll never admit he was hurting when he returned.  But he also couldn’t practice until that week before his return.  Point isn’t that he’s a top 5 QB yet.  Point is he’s proved a lot give what we’ve seen of his play, is more than hype, from almost everyone who watches him play

sometimes, you just gotta stop feeding the trolls, you know Jet Nut?

[Legend Killa7]

2 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

The way people view Sam is very interesting. Some just cannot get past a couple of really bad games, and regardless of what he does outside of those games, they just go back to the bad games over and over and over as if they is the accurate representation of him, not all the other games. Someone posted a statistic that if you remove the NE game, Sam's overall performance is terrific. But many just can get past those games, and ignore how much they skew the statistical picture of his performance.

For many, interceptions seem to be the only measure of a QB. Even if he throws 4 TDs some will bemoan the interception over and over and just ignore all other elements of his play.

I have a theory that people have a personal perception of what a QB should be. Their own mental model so to speak. I think for many on this board, the model of the QB that is just a game manager who doesn't turn the ball over and doesn't take risks is the perfect QB. That model has been drilled into Jets fans heads from the Parcells days. Parcells, Herm, Mangini, Rex, Bowles all wanted that "game manager" type guy that would just not be a negative and allow the defense to win. An Alex Smith like QB, that has been what has been preached by Jets HCs for a very long time.

Sam Darnold is not that guy in any way, shape of form. He is an aggressive QB that thinks he can make any throw and save any down. He takes risks, most of which turn out well bit some don't. The game manager model guys just see that as "bad decisions" or not "protecting the football"

So no matter what Sam does he will never be "they guy" in their eyes because he is just not of that mold, that mental picture they have of the QB,

 

 

 

I agree.  Let's go back to Hack.  or Geno.  or Sanchise.  or......

 

Please.

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, Legend Killa7 said:

I agree.  Let's go back to Hack.  or Geno.  or Sanchise.  or......

 

Please.

If that's your take away from this thread.......  

[Bomberjet]

Too much in this thread is made on stats and metrics. You can't possibly put numbers or figures into the equation if there are variables that need to be fixed or reduced - which happens to be the OL, his bout with MONO  and to a lesser degree the weapons at Sam's disposal. I say this because the last 3 games we've seen that Sam is becoming more comfortable with the players he's targeting. 

Sam's inconsistency doesn't worry me as much as the teams propensity to be the 'Same Ole Jets' they've shown in the past against teams like the Beganls and Phins

[Y3k]

16 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

The way people view Sam is very interesting. Some just cannot get past a couple of really bad games, and regardless of what he does outside of those games, they just go back to the bad games over and over and over as if they is the accurate representation of him, not all the other games. Someone posted a statistic that if you remove the NE game, Sam's overall performance is terrific. But many just can get past those games, and ignore how much they skew the statistical picture of his performance.

For many, interceptions seem to be the only measure of a QB. Even if he throws 4 TDs some will bemoan the interception over and over and just ignore all other elements of his play.

I have a theory that people have a personal perception of what a QB should be. Their own mental model so to speak. I think for many on this board, the model of the QB that is just a game manager who doesn't turn the ball over and doesn't take risks is the perfect QB. That model has been drilled into Jets fans heads from the Parcells days. Parcells, Herm, Mangini, Rex, Bowles all wanted that "game manager" type guy that would just not be a negative and allow the defense to win. An Alex Smith like QB, that has been what has been preached by Jets HCs for a very long time.

Sam Darnold is not that guy in any way, shape of form. He is an aggressive QB that thinks he can make any throw and save any down. He takes risks, most of which turn out well bit some don't. The game manager model guys just see that as "bad decisions" or not "protecting the football"

So no matter what Sam does he will never be "they guy" in their eyes because he is just not of that mold, that mental picture they have of the QB,

 

 

 

Dude it’s called trolling 

[Legend Killa7]

1 minute ago, Bomberjet said:

Too much in this thread is made stats and metrics. You can't possibly put numbers or figures into the equation if there are variables that need to be fixed or reduced - which happens to be the OL, his bout with MONO  and to a lesser degree the weapons at Sam's disposal. I say this because the last 3 games we've seen that Sam is becoming more comfortable with the players he's targeting. 

Sam's inconsistency doesn't worry me as much as the teams propensity to be the 'Same Ole Jets' they've shown in the past against teams like the Beganls and Phins

I'm with you on that.  this game against the bengals scares the crap out of me.  all these good feelings we have been having for the last month get flushed down the toilet if the Jets lose.

[Welp]

I think generally everyone here is cautiously optimistic with Sam and Warfish is more on the cautious side which is understandable

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

He played a top 3 Defensive team while having the effects of mono.  Played better that day than Brady and other higher thought of QBs did.  Put up enough points to win that game, would have with the 4 other points that should have been put up or if the D closed out a game Like they should have.  

I am getting a little tired of this narrative.  You're trying to blame the defense for the Buffalo game? I get that he had mono, but c'mon.  He put up enough points to win?   They scored 16 points, and 8 were scored by the defense.  The missed FG?  That drive was started in Bills territory.