Dak turns down 5-year bajillion dollar offer from Dallas...supposedly

[GreenFish]

12 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

And Dalton would put up numbers almost as good if he had a full season behind that OL with Elliot running the ball setting up play action and Cooper and Gallup

While only making $3M. They could sign Clowney, Ryan, and Griffen with the savings. 

[Tezza]

Sounds like 
 
I think he and his agent are way overinflating his value based on him being the starting QB of the cowboys
 

If he was smart he would take the money!

[Philc1]

10 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

While only making $3M. They could sign Clowney, Ryan, and Griffen with the savings. 

Like someone said earlier Cam Newton is still available.  I’m not a huge Cam Newton guy but the cowboys could get him on a reasonable 1 year deal and then draft a QB next year

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, Tezza said:

29 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Sounds like 
 
I think he and his agent are way overinflating his value based on him being the starting QB of the cowboys
 

If he was smart he would take the money!

We just saw Robby overplay his leverage and lose out on $20 million because he thought the jets should have offered more money

 

These agents should be sued for malpractice 

[Tezza]

We just saw Robby overplay his leverage and lose out on $20 million because he thought the jets should have offered more money
 
These agents should be sued for malpractice 

I honestly see him losing out on this money, what's worse is imagine if they meet him where he is at and he completely flops he will forever be hated in Dallas.

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, Tezza said:

6 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

We just saw Robby overplay his leverage and lose out on $20 million because he thought the jets should have offered more money
 
These agents should be sued for malpractice 

I honestly see him losing out on this money, what's worse is imagine if they meet him where he is at and he completely flops he will forever be hated in Dallas.

Dak will absolutely get burned if he keeps this up

[Tezza]

Dak will absolutely get burned if he keeps this up

How long do you anticipate this will go on for...I reckon within the next 4 weeks they will come to an agreement.

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, Tezza said:

7 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Dak will absolutely get burned if he keeps this up

How long do you anticipate this will go on for...I reckon within the next 4 weeks they will come to an agreement.

No idea.   Dak and his agent are delusional 

[MaxAF]

I like Dak. He’s tough and gutsy. But he’s not an accurate passer IMHO. That’s crazy money. I can’t see any other team out there putting up that kind of money for him. Has had a good line in front of him with a great RB and well above average receivers. Most top 10 pro QB’s should be able to put up his numbers in that system. 

2019 Stats

4902 yards. Ranked second

30 TD’s. Ranked 4th

11 Int’s. Ranked 19th

QBR 70.2. Ranked 4th.

 

[Losmeister]

over the course his production had been very good.

never thought that would happen with this player, not in a million.

it would be interesting to stick him somewhere else, see if he floats,,,,,

 

[Sperm Edwards]

On 5/21/2020 at 4:54 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

That player would be silly to accept a contract like that without holding out or demanding a trade when the "low money years" come up, regardless of how much money he'd banked already.  So it would eventually work against teams for trying to exploit that kind of loophole.

If it became a real fear, The NHL banned lengthy backloaded contracts to close that loophole.  I'm sure the NFL could do something similar.  Something like making a rule where a salary can't drop by >X % from one year to the next.

Unless something changed in the CBA I think the way out of that is, in these extreme situations of artificially low-dollar years, is a poison pill where: if the player holds out it can kicks in team options at very below-market rates.

Tannenbaum did this with Revis, which is why he didn't hold out a third time in the spring before the season he got injured (he got his $32MM over the first 2 years of the renegotiated 2010 deal, and then spoke of maybe holding out in 2012 because Tannenbaum wouldn't renegotiate it again to give him another $16MM in year 3 like Revis claimed MT promised. The poison pill was if Revis had held out it would have kicked in a team option for 3 more years at like $5MM/year, and it's the only thing that kept Revis from giving more than lip service).

[Sperm Edwards]

On 5/21/2020 at 4:36 PM, sec101row23 said:

The issue with that suggestion is that the cap-exempt  salary for each season can be too easily manipulated.  Meaning you can load up on a player’s salary for a given year, exempt him, and then have him play at an artificially low salary for the next 2 or 3 seasons and then play that same game with another player for another year.   

As far as an exemption leading to, for example, $105MM over 3 years (the amount Dak seems to have turned down) with $75MM paid in year 1 therefore just $15MM in years 2 and 3 each, would mean they can exempt somebody else those other years. e.g. Next ballooning Cooper to $30MM in Dak's year 2, thus exempting Cooper instead, who'd then have an artificially low number in Cooper y2 / Dak y3 (freeing up a third star exemption player for Dak y3).

There are ways to prevent easy gaming like mandating that an exempted player can't have a salary drop or rise of more than x% from one year to the next. They had something like this in place for the last expiring CBA - the 30% Rule - that prevented a team from extending a player with a y2 that paid >30% more than y1, and same for y3 compared to y2.

So if they ever made such an exemption player rule, they'd just make a similar x% rule go in both directions. It'd get a little messy if an exempted player is suddenly no longer performing (i.e. the team wouldn't be permitted to negotiate a salary reduction that violated the rule), so they'd just have to implement another rule like: if the prior year's exempt player is scheduled to rise or drop by more than 30%, then the following year you get no exemption (or the max exemption amount is commensurate with however much would have been kosher), or you'd need an arbitration committee to agree this is due to the player suddenly sucking and clearly wasn't an attempt to circumvent the exemption rule.

I'm not covering nearly every loophole/angle here, but if taking the time to lay it out there are ways of doing so that would make gaming it either impossible or where it'd be more damaging to try it than it'd be worth. What you also don't want is for a penalty to be just barely punitive enough that it incentivizes the violating team into cap-tanking for a season (while stacking still more of their stars' cap hits into that tank season) with an eye on quickly rebounding the season after that. So maybe instead of losing the privilege for a year, which many might be willing to swallow for a one-shot run at a title (which is just bad for the league), maybe a "guilty" team would have to lose its exemption for the nexts 3 years (i.e. something so punitive that no team would dare try it).

 

I haven't at all thought of the downside to an exempt-player system, but until the downsides are outlined - downsides other than easy attempts to circumvent it - I have to admit I'm open to the idea. It's not happening, but I find it interesting. But I'm often a big bore and find many such things interesting; or perhaps I've just been cooped up here for so long like almost everyone else that any new idea/topic can interest me lol.

[ljr]

48 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Unless something changed in the CBA I think the way out of that is, in these extreme situations of artificially low-dollar years, is a poison pill where: if the player holds out it can kicks in team options at very below-market rates.

Tannenbaum did this with Revis, which is why he didn't hold out a third time in the spring before the season he got injured (he got his $32MM over the first 2 years of the renegotiated 2010 deal, and then spoke of maybe holding out in 2012 because Tannenbaum wouldn't renegotiate it again to give him another $16MM in year 3 like Revis claimed MT promised. The poison pill was if Revis had held out it would have kicked in a team option for 3 more years at like $5MM/year, and it's the only thing that kept Revis from giving more than lip service).

Revis is a POS money stealing *$$hole

Revis 2.0 was a lazy sack of $h*t

[Bowles Movement]

On 5/23/2020 at 8:21 AM, heymangold said:

i've heard this argument MANY times, yet when we talk about Darnold all we ever say is, "give him an o-line" or "get him weapons".  it what a team is supposed to do.  the cowboys haven't had a losing season with Dak as their starter.  last year was the worst they were, 8-8 and he had his best season.  something else is wrong there, not really Dak.

The Jets beat them last year and it kept them out of the playoffs.   Did Prescott play well against us that day?  I dont remember him elevating his team that day

[Bowles Movement]

On 5/23/2020 at 10:14 AM, Philc1 said:

We just saw Robby overplay his leverage and lose out on $20 million because he thought the jets should have offered more money

 

These agents should be sued for malpractice 

You dont know what advice his agent gave him.  
He might have been advised to resign with the Jets but preferred to play for Rhule.   The Jets offered him a contract but it wasnt a contract that indicated their confidence that he was a long term solution.   Sometimes pride and ego get in the way.

[jetstream23]

[Barry McCockinner]

[14 in Green]

On 5/23/2020 at 10:12 AM, Tezza said:

On 5/23/2020 at 9:43 AM, Philc1 said:

Sounds like 
 
I think he and his agent are way overinflating his value based on him being the starting QB of the cowboys
 

If he was smart he would take the money!

I really don't think Dak, needs your (or any of our) financial advice. He's already got !75 million bucks on the table. If he wants to get more, it really doesn't matter what a bunch of working stiffs on a message board think about his QB or negotiating skills.

[14 in Green]

On 5/23/2020 at 10:21 AM, Philc1 said:

Dak will absolutely get burned if he keeps this up

Absolutely, huh? How?

[Philc1]

8 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

You dont know what advice his agent gave him.  
He might have been advised to resign with the Jets but preferred to play for Rhule.   The Jets offered him a contract but it wasnt a contract that indicated their confidence that he was a long term solution.   Sometimes pride and ego get in the way.

Either way Robby screwed himself out of $20 million big ones my Dude

[Bowles Movement]

17 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Either way Robby screwed himself out of $20 million big ones my Dude

Its possible but he got 2 yrs 20 million from Carolina with 12 mill guaranteed

So how did he screw himself out of 20 million?  What offer did he turn down?   I havent heard anything but rumors and no rumored offer was much more than Carolinas.

[heymangold]

10 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

The Jets beat them last year and it kept them out of the playoffs.   Did Prescott play well against us that day?  I dont remember him elevating his team that day

Well like everyone says - he’s good when he has his weapons.  Cooper was out.  He looked very pedestrian without him.  
 

We can’t use the argument that he’s good because of his weapons and then defend Sam that he’s bad because he doesn’t have weapons.

[Bowles Movement]

6 hours ago, heymangold said:

Well like everyone says - he’s good when he has his weapons.  Cooper was out.  He looked very pedestrian without him.  
 

We can’t use the argument that he’s good because of his weapons and then defend Sam that he’s bad because he doesn’t have weapons.

This guy is looking for north of 35 million a yr.

when Sam is looking for that, we will be a lot more judgmental.  Right now we are asking to get him help so we can evaluate him. 

[Smashmouth]

On 5/21/2020 at 2:17 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

$35M per and he says no.  Yikes.

But hey.  It's not like the Cowboys have leverage.  Someone out there would give him $40M+ per if he hit the open market.  So do you, Dak. 

Just don't complain when the roster goes to sh*t.  

with 35 mil on the table 175 total he better hope he does not get a serious injury. Greedy **** 

[Smashmouth]

Arguably the Best OL in the NFL, The Best RB in the NFL who is great in both phases and can pick up blitzes with the best of them and a possible top 10- group of WR's  ..... So this guy better put up 35 + TD's and 5000 yards plus to even be in the conversation for 45 mil per (which is ridiculous no matter how you look at it).  If I were Dallas I would be looking at the possibility of life without Dak because at this point it looks like hes holding them hostage for a ridiculous amount of money

[Sperm Edwards]

19 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Either way Robby screwed himself out of $20 million big ones my Dude

I think that's an easy hindsight view for two reasons.

First, there's every likelihood that, in a normal FA period, he'd have gotten more than he ended up getting. It's most likely related to COVID, but it's possible that's coincidental timing of both CBA extension talks with a league-wide lack of enthusiasm for throwing crazy (or really, as crazy) money at others' UFAs. 

Jenkins is a good example of this. While many Jets fans do overrate him, he clearly had to settle for what anyone would consider a below-market contract this year. He was a 25 year-old UFA; has lived up to or exceeded most expectations as a day 2 draft pick, starting all 4 seasons since getting drafted; has been averaging 7-8 sacks and a 2 forced fumbles over the last couple seasons; has had no off-field transgressions or distractions so far as I'm aware; he only committed 2 (accepted) penalties last year and occurred in the 4th quarter of the Baltimore blowout game; and there's every reason to believe the upcoming 2-3 seasons would be the best of his career. Yet he took a 1 year $4MM deal to return to the Jets.

Even if someone else might have offered more, I'm sure it wasn't much more (and may have been the same amount of guaranteed money or the same lone guaranteed season on a worse contract, where he'd still be a 2021 UFA if he sucked, but a lack of adequate incentives he'd be vastly underpaid in 2021 if he met or exceeded expectations, and there isn't much incentive to not just bet on himself to get his dollars up and retry FA again a year later). 

While Anderson may have been delusional about getting an offer in the $14-16MM/year range, in a very thin FA market for WRs, where many teams were comfortably under the salary cap, it wasn't unreasonable to think he'd get at least one offer at $1-3MM/year higher offer than he did as a healthy 27 year-old with difference-maker speed. The tide had consistently risen for all players through the 2019 season, but as I noted above it came to a halt to a degree this past March.

Plus he's human and some guys just want to move on after being recently dangled in trade and not getting the offer he wanted after so significantly outplaying his pre-UFA money as an UDFA. Bit of an ego move, but I can understand it, since the message a lower offer also gives is the Jets were only settling for him because they had nothing else at that moment, and they'd be making efforts to move on from him asap. I think that the team did feel that way, as well they should have.

Personally I'd have been fine if they overpaid a bit for one skill-guaranteed season when the team had no WRs heading into FA and the draft (a draft in which their goal was a LT prospect), at a position that's notorious for players starting slower. Anderson and Perriman were literally the UFA WRs I found intriguing enough to pencil in as a week 1 starter, so I'm not unhappy with how things unfolded; my concern was more that they'd end up with neither and that Darnold's X and Z wideouts would be of a day 2-3 rookie (traditionally a 50% suck rate, never mind as a rookie) plus a veteran scrub. 

Also I don't think the Jets exceeded the Panthers' offer (the rumored max per-year amount merely met the Panthers' more concrete offer, but also locked him up with team-only options at that ceiling $ for twice as long), on top of a couple other factors: the Jets players are subject to a (now non-deductible) significantly higher state income tax rate, on top of a significantly higher cost of living, and despite being born & living a couple years in north Jersey, most of the pre-NFL life he remembers was spent in Miami and then Temple U, not in NYC/NJ. 

So anyway I wasn't opposed to bringing him back, but I'm hardly crying about losing him either, in particular after we supposedly got super-lucky with our WR draft pick. 

[32EBoozer]

@Sperm Edwards Jenkins deal actually came in at $3.5 mil. 
Hard to believe. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said:

@Sperm Edwards Jenkins deal actually came in at $3.5 mil. 
Hard to believe. 

I was just writing the first number that popped up in a Google I didn't click on when I couldn't recall offhand. But yes it was hard to believe, and being even lower than I posted only drives the point home harder.

Just looking it up again now, it's $4MM. He's got another $500K above the $3.5MM that's LTBE. Only way he makes just $3.5MM is if he goes on IR before the first game. Changed my original post. thanks

[GREENBEAN]

On 5/21/2020 at 4:00 PM, King P said:

35 million a year is more than fair for Dak.

But if he thinks he can get more, then I blame him for trying to get more. That's the name of the game

Is it?   I think this is complete BS.  He was offered to be the highest paid QB in NFL history and has never been the top rated QB in the league. Never gotten anywhere in the playoffs and plays on a very well built offense. This is what's called greed and it's gross.  This is where the player loses me. 

We are witnessing the end of the game by Letting agents and money people run the show. This isn't $35 mil total, which is more than anyone can spend in a lifetime. It's $35 mil per for 5 years. Not good enough?  Greed.  

[Philc1]

23 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Arguably the Best OL in the NFL, The Best RB in the NFL who is great in both phases and can pick up blitzes with the best of them and a possible top 10- group of WR's  ..... So this guy better put up 35 + TD's and 5000 yards plus to even be in the conversation for 45 mil per (which is ridiculous no matter how you look at it).  If I were Dallas I would be looking at the possibility of life without Dak because at this point it looks like hes holding them hostage for a ridiculous amount of money

So much of Dak’s stats come from play action and teams overloading the box for Elliot.

 

Look at the defenses the cowboys played last year.  Giants twice (who Hackenberg could throw 400 yards against), Dolphins, Washington 

[Philc1]

On 5/25/2020 at 12:01 AM, Bowles Movement said:

Its possible but he got 2 yrs 20 million from Carolina with 12 mill guaranteed

So how did he screw himself out of 20 million?  What offer did he turn down?   I havent heard anything but rumors and no rumored offer was much more than Carolinas.

Jets initially offered $40 million.  His agent rejected it and JD said bye

[Philc1]

Fun Fact:  in 2 games facing the Giants D last season Prescott threw for 660 yards 7 tds 1 Int

 

So the people raving about Dak’s 2019 stats take it easy and relax

[Bowles Movement]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Jets initially offered $40 million.  His agent rejected it and JD said bye

40 million for 4 yrs?   How much guaranteed?  
I had not seen that. 
where did you?

Besides 40 for 4 is 10 mill a yr which is what he is getting now.  Anderson bet that in a year or two he d be a FA again and would get more.  That may or may not work out for him but not necessarily a bad bet.

[Barry McCockinner]

[Tezza]

13 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

It's $35 mil per for 5 years. Not good enough?  Greed.  

Your right it is complete greed, I hope that he does not get his deal and Dalton takes his spot. 

Hindsight!