Vote On Your Level Of Confidence In Adam Gase

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You point out 6-2 down the stretch but you're ignoring 1-7 to start.

Also, as to this, it’s important because the narrative around Gase is that he’s a robotic taskmaster that nobody likes and whom players detest. At 1-7, the team should have folded but instead they rallied and fought their way to 6-2, which dispels the idea that Gase is some pariah in the locker room. Bell seems to love him, Robbie liked him, Darnold, Tannehill and Manning speak glowingly of Gase. Gregg Williams—who has the most to gain from Gase failing—seems to like working for him. The Miami beat writers all say he was well-respected and personable during his time there. The only guy who seems to have disliked Gase was Stephen Ross, who is a meddling a$$hole, and Manish, who is a professional troll. 6-2 is significant because it showed that the players and coaches wanted to play for him, even when they had a million opportunities to get him run out of town.

[Charlie Brown]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

Since when does the Jets GM make HC hiring/firing decisions?  Did Woody Johnson change the organizational structure?  Woody Johnson's business model is to have the HC and GM ultimately blaming each other.  Every f'ing time.  Rinse... spit... repeat...

You make an excellent point!

However, I believe that the Johnsons have made an institutional shift with the hiring of JD.  Even the Johnsons have to be able to see how competent JD is and well respected he is league wide something none of the last four or five Jets GMs could state in their wildest dreams!

And yet the proof will be in the pudding as they say.. by their action we shall know them..

[y2k8]

I would have picked "I have ZERO confidence in Adam Gase but I hope and pray he gives me reason to change my mind."

[y2k8]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

Since when does the Jets GM make HC hiring/firing decisions?  Did Woody Johnson change the organizational structure?  Woody Johnson's business model is to have the HC and GM ultimately blaming each other.  Every f'ing time.  Rinse... spit... repeat...

I hear you, but I do think the reporting structure issue is a bit overblown. The last tandem was a disaster because they hired 2 guys in individual vacuums and they obviously were like oil and water.  It was a recipe for disaster.  If the GM and HC actually are on the same page, and have clearly defined roles, the reporting structure is essentially a non-issue. That appears to be the case now.

That said, if this all goes sideways, JD has the longer contract, so I imagine he will outlast Gase if it comes to it.

[SAR I]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Also, as to this, it’s important because the narrative around Gase is that he’s a robotic taskmaster that nobody likes and whom players detest. At 1-7, the team should have folded but instead they rallied and fought their way to 6-2, which dispels the idea that Gase is some pariah in the locker room. Bell seems to love him, Robbie liked him, Darnold, Tannehill and Manning speak glowingly of Gase. Gregg Williams—who has the most to gain from Gase failing—seems to like working for him. The Miami beat writers all say he was well-respected and personable during his time there. The only guy who seems to have disliked Gase was Stephen Ross, who is a meddling a$$hole, and Manish, who is a professional troll. 6-2 is significant because it showed that the players and coaches wanted to play for him, even when they had a million opportunities to get him run out of town.

This should be a t-shirt.

There are 3 things a new head coach has to prove to an organization; he's already aced 2 of them in his first year.  Considering the injuries and obstacles thrown in his path, Gase did a fantastic job and every Jets fan should be excited about his development.

SAR I

[slats]

12 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

You make an excellent point!

However, I believe that the Johnsons have made an institutional shift with the hiring of JD.  Even the Johnsons have to be able to see how competent JD is and well respected he is league wide something none of the last four or five Jets GMs could state in their wildest dreams!

And yet the proof will be in the pudding as they say.. by their action we shall know them..

There's been no reporting of an organizational change. I don't even know how that would work. I'd imagine that Gase has it in his contract that he reports directly to the owner, not to the guy he just recruited to be the GM. Perhaps, if they decide to let Gase walk, they'll change the way they've been doing things for a long time and make Douglas the COO and let him hire a HC who works under him. And at that time, it would probably be the smart move. For now, though, I'd guess it's unchanged. 

[Warfish]

26 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Run the numbers for the last 8 games thanks.

SAR I

Time to go on the record @SAR I

You clearly "ran the numbers for the last 8 games".

Now you can tell us all, publicly, without any ambiguity, what you think that means for 2020.

 

[TuscanyTile2]

28 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I wouldn’t go so far as to say Gase is the long-term answer, but I think that the job required someone smart and ruthless who was also unconcerned with public perception. Gase, in 18 months, has single-handedly dragged this Jets team from being a clownish bottom-feeder to the point where they appear to be doing smart, sustainable and coherent things with the roster, and with building the front office. Gase did all that. The alternative was Mccarthy, which meant Maccagnan would still be here. I don’t think any pluses with McCarthy would have been worth the minuses of keeping Maccagnan under any circumstance. So, to answer your question, if you told us 18 months ago that the Jets would be where they are now, with who they have in the front office and who they added to the roster, and with a healthy cap situation moving forward, I would have signed up for that in a second. So, while I have misgivings about Gase’s long-term prospects here, I think it’s clear that he was the right man at the right time. 

For the record, I didn't want McCarthy and I even said I would've preferred Gase over him.  As far as Gase, if his ruthlessness is the reason we have Joe D (who I'm a huge fan of) then I'm very grateful to him for that.  The things I wrote in my previous post, however, were only in reference to him as a head coach.  I still feel like he did a bad job last year.  Our schedule was as easy as it could've been (in terms of both opponents and travel)  but he only got to 7-9.  Yes we had a very tough early season schedule and Sam did have mono so there are some legit built-in excuses.  But I never felt like he did any kind of great job to "almost steal a game that we had no business being in" or anything like that.

As far as our 6-2 2nd half, I credit GW as much or more than I do Gase for that.  And as we all know, GW is here because of the Johnsons, not because of Gase.  I'll eat a little crow on that btw because I thought that was a case of the Johnsons meddling. I wanted our HC to bring in his own staff (or at worst, our GM to be involved rather than the owner).  It does seem to me right now though that GW was a smart hire.

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

As far as Gase, if his ruthlessness is the reason we have Joe D (who I'm a huge fan of) then I'm very grateful to him for that.

It's a common meme, but there is no actual evidence that Gase deserves credit for this move.

[SAR I]

43 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Time to go on the record @SAR I

You clearly "ran the numbers for the last 8 games".

Now you can tell us all, publicly, without any ambiguity, what you think that means for 2020.

 

I don't have the stats for the last 8 games.  I'd like to see them.

I believe the Jets will go 10-6 and win the AFC East.

In 40 years of fandom the best offense I've ever seen the Jets produce was in 1998 (#5 in points scored) and 2015 (#11).  So considering the age of our QB, the state of our OL, and the lack of bigtime playmakers, if the Jets are in the Top 16 I would be pleased.

SAR I

[ageingjetfan]

Talent level on this team was atrocious and right now will have to say it still is another successful draft away from being a good team. Any coach with that team last year would have his hands tied offensively. Cant run and no separation on the outside. Please tell me who wins with that? I have no opinion on this guy until I see a wall up front for the qb and separation on the outside, then I can honestly judge his play design, play calling and also wether this guy is a gambler or a overly conservative coaching style. I like a bit of a gambler, makes people not sure of whats coming, we shall see. last years team Bell got hit as soon as he got the ball. Braxton Berrios doesn't scare me and robby, probably our best could not be a fifty fifty guy even a little. Too little talent. To judge on that just indicates personal bias

[T0mShane]

46 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's a common meme, but there is no actual evidence that Gase deserves credit for this move.

It’s your belief that Chris Johnson, on his own, decided to fire Mike Maccagnan in May, after the draft, and then hire Gase’s personal friend Joe Douglas all independent of Adam Gase? 

[T0mShane]

52 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

For the record, I didn't want McCarthy and I even said I would've preferred Gase over him.  As far as Gase, if his ruthlessness is the reason we have Joe D (who I'm a huge fan of) then I'm very grateful to him for that.  The things I wrote in my previous post, however, were only in reference to him as a head coach.  I still feel like he did a bad job last year.  Our schedule was as easy as it could've been (in terms of both opponents and travel)  but he only got to 7-9.  Yes we had a very tough early season schedule and Sam did have mono so there are some legit built-in excuses.  But I never felt like he did any kind of great job to "almost steal a game that we had no business being in" or anything like that.

As far as our 6-2 2nd half, I credit GW as much or more than I do Gase for that.  And as we all know, GW is here because of the Johnsons, not because of Gase.  I'll eat a little crow on that btw because I thought that was a case of the Johnsons meddling. I wanted our HC to bring in his own staff (or at worst, our GM to be involved rather than the owner).  It does seem to me right now though that GW was a smart hire.

Alright, so you can only deal with the options they had on hand at the time. Rhule backed out, McCarthy was lobbying for the job, Gase gets hired. What did you think the Jets record should have been last year before the start of the season? As for the Gregg Williams thing, he’s 22-34 as a head coach in the league and he didn’t even get an interview this offseason. He did a good job as the DC here and he seems to like the autonomy that Gase has given him. If that autonomy leads to team success, Gase deserves credit for that, too. 

[TuscanyTile2]

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Alright, so you can only deal with the options they had on hand at the time. Rhule backed out, McCarthy was lobbying for the job, Gase gets hired. What did you think the Jets record should have been last year before the start of the season? As for the Gregg Williams thing, he’s 22-34 as a head coach in the league and he didn’t even get an interview this offseason. He did a good job as the DC here and he seems to like the autonomy that Gase has given him. If that autonomy leads to team success, Gase deserves credit for that, too. 

With that schedule, I was thinking/hoping we'd get somewhere between 7-10 wins going into last year.  (I realize that's a very wide range btw).  So record-wise, I guess 7 was reasonable.  However, it's more than just that.  I wanted to see Gase surprise us and have the team play much more competitive than would've been expected in some of our losses.  Parcells' first year here was the kind of blueprint I was hoping for (where, even when we lost, we were a tough out).

I realize there weren't great coaching options out there btw (I can't remember if Urban Meyer was available at that time but, if so, I would've offered him the Gruden contract to try to convince him). 

As far as Gase getting credit for giving autonomy to GW, I wonder about that.  I would have to assume that part of his deal when he signed here was autonomy with the defense.  

I don't think I wanted Matt Ruhle btw.  I guess let's see what happens with him this year.  I wouldn't have been thrilled with that hire though.

[Warfish]

32 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I don't have the stats for the last 8 games.  I'd like to see them.

https://www.google.com/

32 minutes ago, SAR I said:

In 40 years of fandom the best offense I've ever seen the Jets produce was in 1998 (#5 in points scored) and 2015 (#11).  So considering the age of our QB, the state of our OL, and the lack of bigtime playmakers, if the Jets are in the Top 16 I would be pleased.

i think you miss the point of polls, mate.  Tel the poll, don't tell me.

[SAR I]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

https://www.google.com/

i think you miss the point of polls, mate.  Tel the poll, don't tell me.

There is no site I can find that allows someone to put in a custom date range and run offensive statistics ranked for all NFL teams.

Polls are childish.

SAR I

[Warfish]

25 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s your belief that Chris Johnson, on his own, decided to fire Mike Maccagnan in May, after the draft, and then hire Gase’s personal friend Joe Douglas all independent of Adam Gase? 

I don't have a "personal belief".  I have no way to know who did what to whom when in the confused Jets Front Office/Ownership.

Neither do people giving Gase "credit" for "firing" Macc.  Do you have a Gase quote where he said it was his call or influence?  I don't.  

If only we had a normal Organization, where such responsibilities are clear, clean and linear.

Instead, we're the Jets, where Owners are Ambassadors, Brothers are Acting Owners, GM's work for Coaches, Coaches work directly for Owners, GM's work for the f'ing Ballboy for all we know, and no one ever just reports to the next higher guy on the Org. Chart.

If fans want to thank Gase for Macc, great.  What an accomplishment.  No one was sad to see Macc go.......not even the posters who loved and defended him till he got fired. 

[Warfish]

6 minutes ago, SAR I said:

There is no site I can find that allows someone to put in a custom date range and run offensive statistics ranked for all NFL teams.

SAR I

I'm quite sure a man of your obvious intelligence can do basic arithmetic.  I hear they even make software that helps with that these days.

[Big_Slick]

21 hours ago, freestater said:

I voted piss off as an "other" vote.

Gase got rid of Macc and that bought him last year. He deserves one more year to get his offense together. If he doesn't produce a 16th or better offense then it's time to move on. 

I don't believe that Macc had anything to do with the Gase hire. He did sit in on the interviews but his only responsibility was to get coffee. Gase deserves extra credit for kicking Macc out and bringing in JD.

[Beerfish]

34 minutes ago, ageingjetfan said:

Talent level on this team was atrocious and right now will have to say it still is another successful draft away from being a good team. Any coach with that team last year would have his hands tied offensively. Cant run and no separation on the outside. Please tell me who wins with that? I have no opinion on this guy until I see a wall up front for the qb and separation on the outside, then I can honestly judge his play design, play calling and also wether this guy is a gambler or a overly conservative coaching style. I like a bit of a gambler, makes people not sure of whats coming, we shall see. last years team Bell got hit as soon as he got the ball. Braxton Berrios doesn't scare me and robby, probably our best could not be a fifty fifty guy even a little. Too little talent. To judge on that just indicates personal bias

Here is the issue with this excuse.  Gregg Williams and the defense destroyed this myth last year.

The Jets defense was injured had no viable corners and lacked talent as well.  Coaching managed to drag it along to mid pack performance.

The offense was injured and lacked talent and ended up dead last.  Worse than when guys like Morton, and Bates were running the show with equally bad talent.  And our HC big claim to fame is his 'excellent offensive pedigree.'

If Gase had a very good history with his offenses and just had a down year I could see people saying give him a break but his resume in Miami was bad as well.

When we hired Gase we simply followed Buffalos doomed path when they hired Rex.

[TuscanyTile2]

12 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Here is the issue with this excuse.  Gregg Williams and the defense destroyed this myth last year.

The Jets defense was injured had no viable corners and lacked talent as well.  Coaching managed to drag it along to mid pack performance.

The offense was injured and lacked talent and ended up dead last.  Worse than when guys like Morton, and Bates were running the show with equally bad talent.  And our HC big claim to fame is his 'excellent offensive pedigree.'

If Gase had a very good history with his offenses and just had a down year I could see people saying give him a break but his resume in Miami was bad as well.

When we hired Gase we simply followed Buffalos doomed path when they hired Rex.

Agreed.  GW lifted his defense up last year with his coaching.  I don't feel like Gase did that with the offense. 

[Big_Slick]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Also, as to this, it’s important because the narrative around Gase is that he’s a robotic taskmaster that nobody likes and whom players detest. At 1-7, the team should have folded but instead they rallied and fought their way to 6-2, which dispels the idea that Gase is some pariah in the locker room. Bell seems to love him, Robbie liked him, Darnold, Tannehill and Manning speak glowingly of Gase. Gregg Williams—who has the most to gain from Gase failing—seems to like working for him. The Miami beat writers all say he was well-respected and personable during his time there. The only guy who seems to have disliked Gase was Stephen Ross, who is a meddling a$$hole, and Manish, who is a professional troll. 6-2 is significant because it showed that the players and coaches wanted to play for him, even when they had a million opportunities to get him run out of town.

Gase fought his way out of Miami because Stephen Ross wanted to tank for Tua and Gase wouldn't play ball with that crap.

[T0mShane]

25 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Neither do people giving Gase "credit" for "firing" Macc.  Do you have a Gase quote where he said it was his call or influence?  I don't.  

Yes, I have a picture of Gase walking out of Maccagnan’s office with blood all over his shirt and an axe in his hand. 

[BROOKLYN JET]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yes, I have a picture of Gase walking out of Maccagnan’s office with blood all over his shirt and an axe in his hand. 

Not to get political, but there is more work for THE CLEANER! 

[Beerfish]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yes, I have a picture of Gase walking out of Maccagnan’s office with blood all over his shirt and an axe in his hand. 

[Big_Slick]

Gase will be here in 2021. Anyone want to make a bet payable to a charity that he'll be fired during or after 2020? I'll take action of $500 or less.

These instant gratification SOJ fans have no understanding of how bad our roster was when Gase took over. Then they say that no matter what the situation a new HC comes into he should put up 10 wins and a top 15 offensive. Nonsense!

To fairly judge Gase it'll be after the 2021 season. Give JD TWO drafts and free agency years to rebuild the team. It can't be done in one season, although he's done a great job so far with this years draft and FA signings that rebuilt the worst OL in league history and filled big holes through out the roster.

JD and Gase will put together a team that has sustainable success and will win the AFCE in 2021 and will be battling for the AFCE for many years to come.

[Philc1]

Don’t like Gase but it’s good that Sam isn’t changing playbooks this offseason 

[SOJ]

4 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

Gase will be here in 2021. Anyone want to make a bet payable to a charity that he'll be fired during or after 2020? I'll take action of $500 or less.

These instant gratification SOJ fans have no understanding of how bad our roster was when Gase took over. Then they say that no matter what the situation a new HC comes into he should put up 10 wins and a top 15 offensive. Nonsense!

To fairly judge Gase it'll be after the 2021 season. Give JD TWO drafts and free agency years to rebuild the team. It can't be done in one season, although he's done a great job so far with this years draft and FA signings that rebuilt the worst OL in league history and filled big holes through out the roster.

JD and Gase will put together a team that has sustainable success and will win the AFCE in 2021 and will be battling for the AFCE for many years to come.

We shall see... If you and others are correct regarding his coaching abilities he should have a team - that may not win a bunch of games- but should "at least" be competitive offensively,  not last in the league.  Conversely, if the offensive is as dysfunctional as last year,  then in MHO he is a goner.  And, I will bet you on that...

[82nd Airborne]

On 6/1/2020 at 11:03 AM, jbt said:

bad all around.  after those first 15 scripted plays, his play calling is horrible, does not make adjustments and does not utilize his weapons properly.

 

As long as he listens to Sam's play calling we will be alright. 

[Big_Slick]

33 minutes ago, SOJ said:

We shall see... If you and others are correct regarding his coaching abilities he should have a team - that may not win a bunch of games- but should "at least" be competitive offensively,  not last in the league.  Conversely, if the offensive is as dysfunctional as last year,  then in MHO he is a goner.  And, I will bet you on that...

So what's the bet? Is Gase gone next season? I agree that if the Jets go 3-13 without serious injuries then Gase is history, I'm willing to bet that doesn't happen.

[GaryM]

On 6/1/2020 at 3:57 PM, Warfish said:

I'll start having more faith in Gase (and Darnold) when Gase (and Darnold) starts putting up above average Offensive production. 

Seems fair to me.

Hopefully with an offensive line now that can hold their own, unlike last year, we can begin to see something special from Darnold. It should also allow Gase to implement more of a downfield playbook.

[SAR I]

59 minutes ago, SOJ said:

We shall see... If you and others are correct regarding his coaching abilities he should have a team - that may not win a bunch of games- but should "at least" be competitive offensively,  not last in the league.  Conversely, if the offensive is as dysfunctional as last year,  then in MHO he is a goner.  And, I will bet you on that...

After winning 6 of his last 8 games with an XFL roster, how could anyone doubt his coaching abilities?

Hey, I get the fact that in the playoffs we have no idea if he's a great coach or not, but in the regular season?  He's proven he's worthy.

SAR I

[SAR I]

5 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Agreed.  GW lifted his defense up last year with his coaching.  I don't feel like Gase did that with the offense. 

Please.  Once Darnold returned and shook the mono cobwebs that 6-2 finish was more on the strength of the offense than the defense.  The D was performing at a high level all season; the O was in shambles at 1-7.  Gase "lifted up" the offense far more than Williams did the defense.

FYI, the Jets make the playoffs if the supposed God-like Gregg Williams D doesn't allow the Bills comeback and the winless Dolphins and Bengals to put up 48 points on him.

SAR I

[Big_Slick]

16 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Please.  Once Darnold returned and shook the mono cobwebs that 6-2 finish was more on the strength of the offense than the defense.  The D was performing at a high level all season; the O was in shambles at 1-7.  Gase "lifted up" the offense far more than Williams did the defense.

FYI, the Jets make the playoffs if the supposed God-like Gregg Williams D doesn't allow the Bills comeback and the winless Dolphins and Bengals to put up 48 points on him.

SAR I

Where was Jamal during those games? Did he make a difference? A HOF player that disappeared down the stretch?

Yeah - let's allocate a huge percentage of our cap $$$ to this impact player.

That said I think GW is the best DC the Jets have had since that weasel Belichick stole a million dollars from Leon Hess. Pay him whatever it takes to keep him as he's the perfect complement to Gase as the HC/OC.

[BCJet]

I think we will know what type of coach Gase is very quickly, simply by looking at Frank Gore's touches.

Gase's biggest issue as a coach is not being able to adapt.  He sticks with "his guys" who dont happen to be the best players. Say what you want about situations, or schemes, but there is simply no reason a guy like Kenyon Drake can leave Gase and not "get better" but become an elite player at his position.  

Coaches need to be able to design and call plays that are best suited for their personnel and im not sure Gase is able to do that.  If Gore gets more then 7/8 touches per game on this team then I think it will be indicative that Gase simply isnt going to change and unless we have a legitimate playoff run he should be removed for someone with more upside, preferably Ericy Bienemy.