PK’s Zach Wilson scouting report

[kdels62]

7 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Except he doesn’t do it all the time? I’m confident I’ve now watched just as much tape on him than anyone else. You’re pressing to make a point with exaggerations. Also, Wilson’s arm is 10x stronger than Bridgewater, plays with an entire different play style than Bridgewater & is a completely different player from Bridgewater.

He’s done it twice in his college career. He’s making things up because of something about Sam Darnold, I think.

[Greenseed4]

9 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Zach Wilson is 209lbs, Kyler Murray is 207lbs, Baker is 209lbs and Russ Wilson is 206lbs.

I really really don’t get what you’re saying here.

His official combine measurements will make a huge impact on how high he gets drafted. You look at his weight, and the more you stretch it out, the less durable he’ll be viewed.  Murray is a brick, stretch him out 5” and he’s an injury concern. It’s not like he’s a WR getting tackled by like-sized CBs. He’s going to be at the bottom of dog piles stacked with fatties. 
 

Sam Darnold is 6’3, 225

Justin Fields is 6’3, 227

Mac Jones is 6’3, 215

Zach Wilson is 6’3, 209

Baker is 6’1, 215

Russell is 5’11, 204

Kyler Murray is 5’10, 207

 

[Patriot Killa]

How many times does Darnold’s “thick trunky” frame have to get banged up for 3 games a year until you realize injuries just happen no matter who it’s to.

[QB1]

2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

LOK @ HES NEKK THO

Ok you’re clueless

a QB with Wilson’s frame can work in the NFL but not with his play style. The idea that he will be a dual threat in the NFL is absurd, which makes the murray comparison laughable 

Rodgers is the best scenario for him, also a guy that’s a little slighter

but he doesn’t play like Rodgers, he is much more reckless. It also looks to me like he tries to rip every throw where Rodgers shows a much wider variety of touch. 

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, QB1 said:

Ok you’re clueless

a QB with Wilson’s frame can work in the NFL but not with his play style. The idea that he will be a dual threat in the NFL is absurd, which makes the murray comparison laughable 

Rodgers is the best scenario for him, also a guy that’s a little slighter

but he doesn’t play like Rodgers, he is much more reckless. It also looks to me like he tries to rip every throw where Rodgers shows a much wider variety of touch. 

It’s okay to just admit you don’t like his face because your football reasons are poor.

[QB1]

1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

How many times does Darnold’s “thick trunky” frame have to get banged up for 3 games a year until you realize injuries just happen no matter who it’s to.

Those 3 game injury’s for Darnold are season Enders for a guy like Wilson. Two torn labrum, huge red flag that his body is naturally fragile. 

[Paradis]

Appreciate the effort that went into this patriot killer. I haven’t spent a ton of time watching Wilson so I confess to having an unfinished opinion. My capital concern with him that makes the rest of his strengths moot at #2, is can he go through progressions? Can he read a defense. I see very little of that right now. He locks on to receiver and just commits throwing to that side of the Field. A lot of those quick outs and such would be picks sixes in the NFL that he gets away with

[QB1]

Just now, Patriot Killa said:

It’s okay to just admit you don’t like his face because your football reasons are poor.

The face is the cherry on top of the sh*t Sunday

[QB1]

Please defend your Murray comp, it makes no sense. 

[kdels62]

3 minutes ago, QB1 said:

Ok you’re clueless

a QB with Wilson’s frame can work in the NFL but not with his play style. The idea that he will be a dual threat in the NFL is absurd, which makes the murray comparison laughable 

Rodgers is the best scenario for him, also a guy that’s a little slighter

but he doesn’t play like Rodgers, he is much more reckless. It also looks to me like he tries to rip every throw where Rodgers shows a much wider variety of touch. 

This is wrong. 33 TDs and 3 Ints with only 3 interceptable passes thrown all year is the evidence.

[Pennington]

1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

for ultimate success, situation will play a big part...   but look at Burrow and Herbert...   they look/looked very good in bad situs.

Herbert is only in a bad situation as far as winning and losing due to Anthony Lynn being as bad as Gase but he does have legitimate talent around him. Burrow I do agree on that he looked good in a terrible environment. 

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, QB1 said:

Please defend your Murray comp, it makes no sense. 

Defend my Murray comp? I don’t have to “defend” anything. I stated in the overview why Murray is my comp. if you do not agree, which I get this crazy feeling you don’t, then all is good. It’s fine to have different opinions but the exaggerations and nit picking really doesn’t help you prove any kind of point other then the fact that it’s your opinion.

[Patriot Killa]

10 minutes ago, QB1 said:

Those 3 game injury’s for Darnold are season Enders for a guy like Wilson. Two torn labrum, huge red flag that his body is naturally fragile. 

A minor shoulder injury and knee injury are season enders for nobody... again your hyperbole is more convincing than your actual points.

[Losmeister]

Same build as Satfford.

Can he play QB? That's all that matters. Flutie was too small, Russ too small, Warren Moon didnt even get drafted...  theres many examples.

Theisman..... Tarkenton....

he's built like Elway -5lbs.

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, Losmeister said:

Same build as Satfford.

Can he play QB? That's all that matters. Flutie was too small, Russ too small, Warren Moon didnt even get drafted...  theres many examples.

Theisman..... Tarkenton....

he's built like Elway -5lbs.

All these nit picks teams make (including concerns with the builds of Murray/Baker) are reasons why some QB needy teams wish they would have overlooked the little things.

[Losmeister]

and as for Sam? Zach wouldnt have gotten a shoulder injuiry cos he woulda fired a strike the the wide open guy over the middle 1.5 seconds earlier....

questions about reading d and such, sure. discuss/debate. makes sense.

So Adrian Peterson was also naturally fragile cos he broke his collarbone?

If he was so naturally fragile how come he played recklessly (someone elses word) all year and isnt injured?

[Defense Wins Championships]

2 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Zach Wilson:

(games watched: vs Boise State 2019, vs UTSA 2020, Louisiana Tech 2020, Coastal Carolina 2020, San Diego State 2020, vs Western Kentucky 2020)

Player Comparison:

Wilson’s player comp for me is Kyler Murray. Both are excellently well balanced duel threat QB’s who have top notch arm talent and big play ability. Wilson is slightly bigger and a few inches taller but both fit the same mold of QB and skill set.

Come on man. Comparing him to Kyler Murray?

UCF has only sent 10 defensive players into the NFL over the past 10 years; and I'm also pretty sure that these Defenses in bold (above) aren't producing any top 10 draft picks or even top 100 draft picks for that matter etc so who is he even really going up against, glorified High Schoolers? 

This kid has one too many question marks for me to gamble on because going from Trevor Lawrence to this kid almost makes me want to throw up it's an absolute disgusting thought for me.

We lose out on Trevor Lawrence so we just then automatically ignore all the other great players such as Sewell, Chase, Pitts etc and peg Zach as the next Kyler Murray?

This is why so many QB busts happen. Ppl always settling. Reaching in the 1st. I laughed at the idea of trading down and drafting Lawrence  when we were in position for Lawrence and I still laugh about drafting him #2 overall.

If he's available with Seattle's pick? Yeah. Why not. But that's as far as I'd go with him. 

And I'm sorry

Two shoulder surgeries (one on his throwing shoulder) and a hand surgery before even ever taking an NFL hit? No thmx. 

That's a red flag for me and one that I'm not drafting so I'd rather tet another team team find out about his future throwing shoulder and arm strength say 10 years from today when he's only young 30's etc and how good will it look in Chicago, Pittsburgh and Buffalo climate? 

I'd much rather gamble on Mac Jones or Kyle Trask than take Zach Wilson #2 overall. At least I've watched them destroy the SEC. 

He has another shoulder surgery and Jet fans will scream to fire JD. 

 

[QB1]

14 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Defend my Murray comp? I don’t have to “defend” anything. I stated in the overview why Murray is my comp. if you do not agree, which I get this crazy feeling you don’t, then all is good. It’s fine to have different opinions but the exaggerations and nit picking really doesn’t help you prove any kind of point other then the fact that it’s your opinion.

Why is Murray your comp? Talk about exaggerations.

[derp]

The third to last bullet in the positives really stood out when I watched him. I think he does a good job with risk/reward on throws which reminded me of someone like Rodgers. Just make good decisions that have nice upside with minimal downside. I think it’s important at the pro level and shows a degree of understanding for nuance and opens up the field.

Realistic quarterback evaluations for folks like us are really challenging because we can’t figure out things like leadership, work ethic, film study, system digestion, etc let alone reading pro defenses, adjusting to a faster game, going through reads. But from a simplified perspective Wilson is as fun a quarterback prospect as I’ve seen recently with shades of Rodgers and Mahomes.

[Losmeister]

6 minutes ago, derp said:

Wilson is as fun a quarterback prospect as I’ve seen recently

this. and whether you think Fields is a better option, shrug. He's a legit prospect.

What happens at pro-level we'll find out ...

Rellay feels like Tlaw/Field/Zach are the ones that have good/great/excellent postential. 

We havent talked about Trey, tho. 

That'd be a fascinating move

[kdels62]

3 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Come on man. Comparing him to Kyler Murray?

UCF has only sent 10 defensive players into the NFL over the past 10 years; and I'm also pretty sure that these Defenses in bold (above) aren't producing any top 10 draft picks or even top 100 draft picks for that matter etc so who is he even really going up against, glorified High Schoolers? 

This kid has one too many question marks for me to gamble on because going from Trevor Lawrence to this kid almost makes me want to throw up it's an absolute disgusting thought for me.

We lose out on Trevor Lawrence so we just then automatically ignore all the other great players such as Sewell, Chase, Pitts etc and peg Zach as the next Kyler Murray?

This is why so many QB busts happen. Ppl always settling. Reaching in the 1st. I laughed at the idea of trading down and drafting Lawrence  when we were in position for Lawrence and I still laugh about drafting him #2 overall.

If he's available with Seattle's pick? Yeah. Why not. But that's as far as I'd go with him. 

And I'm sorry

Two shoulder surgeries (one on his throwing shoulder) and a hand surgery before even ever taking an NFL hit? No thmx. 

That's a red flag for me and one that I'm not drafting so I'd rather tet another team team find out about his future throwing shoulder and arm strength say 10 years from today when he's only young 30's etc and how good will it look in Chicago, Pittsburgh and Buffalo climate? 

I'd much rather gamble on Mac Jones or Kyle Trask than take Zach Wilson #2 overall. At least I've watched them destroy the SEC. 

 

He plays in Utah. You think he’s worried about Chicago, Pittsburgh and Buffalo? He has a bigger arm than Jones and Trask who play in the south. Isn’t it more worrisome to project their arm strength in cold weather town?

The SEC is a mess defensively this year. Jones is throwing to 2 first round receivers protected by at least 2 OL that will be drafted in the first 3 rounds and he has a running back that will be drafted in the first 2 rounds. Trask is throwing to a top 15 draft pick at TE and a 2nd round receiver. He also throws an AY/A that is 1 yard shorter than Wilson. 

[StrawberryFields]

48 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

His official combine measurements will make a huge impact on how high he gets drafted. You look at his weight, and the more you stretch it out, the less durable he’ll be viewed.  Murray is a brick, stretch him out 5” and he’s an injury concern. It’s not like he’s a WR getting tackled by like-sized CBs. He’s going to be at the bottom of dog piles stacked with fatties. 
 

Sam Darnold is 6’3, 225

Justin Fields is 6’3, 227

Mac Jones is 6’3, 215

Zach Wilson is 6’3, 209

Baker is 6’1, 215

Russell is 5’11, 204

Kyler Murray is 5’10, 207

 

I’m a Fields guy, but this is ridiculous. Who cares? He’s 21 years old-he will put on weight. That’s easy. 

[Greenseed4]

2 minutes ago, StrawberryFields said:

I’m a Fields guy, but this is ridiculous. Who cares? He’s 21 years old-he will put on weight. That’s easy. 

I guess it depends on if you’re spending a #2 pick on a guy you want to start right away, or a guy you want to develop on the bench/weight room for a year. 

[maury77]

Ironically, I posted my Wilson review as well this morning in the draft forum. My biggest issue with Wilson is that he deals very poorly with pressure up the middle in the pocket. His accuracy really dips with people in his face and he appears to get frazzled. I think Wilson has a lot of Darnold to his game. 

[Patriot Killa]

42 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Ironically, I posted my Wilson review as well this morning in the draft forum. My biggest issue with Wilson is that he deals very poorly with pressure up the middle in the pocket. His accuracy really dips with people in his face and he appears to get frazzled. I think Wilson has a lot of Darnold to his game. 

Agreed that’s when he back pedals the most & also agreed on them both having that off schedule hero ball gunslinger mentality but I do think, all in all, Wilson has the better decision making.

[StrawberryFields]

58 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Ironically, I posted my Wilson review as well this morning in the draft forum. My biggest issue with Wilson is that he deals very poorly with pressure up the middle in the pocket. His accuracy really dips with people in his face and he appears to get frazzled. I think Wilson has a lot of Darnold to his game. 

This is the problem with Jets fans. We are all scarred from Darnold, Sanchez, and Geno Smith. 

You can’t stop trying to find that guy. 

[maury77]

This is the problem with Jets fans. We are all scarred from Darnold, Sanchez, and Geno Smith. 
You can’t stop trying to find that guy. 

Wilson’s ok, I just prefer Fields and Lawrence


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[riggy001]

4 hours ago, StrawberryFields said:

I’m a Fields guy, but this is ridiculous. Who cares? He’s 21 years old-he will put on weight. That’s easy. 

Exactly, not comparing their skills, but do I need to post Brady’s combine pics to further illustrate the pt?!

[Grandy]

With proper development, he is going to be a star. Not sure if we're the right team for "proper development", but either ways I wish him the best of luck. 

[QB1]

4 hours ago, StrawberryFields said:

I’m a Fields guy, but this is ridiculous. Who cares? He’s 21 years old-he will put on weight. That’s easy. 

You can’t put on weight if you can’t lift because your shoulders are made of macaroni. 

[adb280z]

7 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I agree he reminds me a lot of Aaraon Rodgers.  I am not too concerned about the labrum injuries. From what I read they were not associated with a dislocated shoulder and the one on his right shoulder is clearly full healed and unlikely to recur. Shoulder surgeries have improved to the point that some athletes proactively have labrum and tommy john surgeries before they are injured.

 

No one is proactively having shoulder or labrum surgery before injury.  That's asinine.  There are still very real risks with both surgeries.

[predator_05]

6 hours ago, Paradis said:

Appreciate the effort that went into this patriot killer. I haven’t spent a ton of time watching Wilson so I confess to having an unfinished opinion. My capital concern with him that makes the rest of his strengths moot at #2, is can he go through progressions? Can he read a defense. I see very little of that right now. He locks on to receiver and just commits throwing to that side of the Field. A lot of those quick outs and such would be picks sixes in the NFL that he gets away with

This was my impression as well. 

Too much hero-ball. 

There are some QBs that get away with it, like Mahomes or Watson. But most hero-ball QBs are too mistake-prone. 

Then again, the rules have changed to allow more hero-ball than what we grew up watching. At no point in history has it been easier reading to play QB.

maybe we're overthinking it

[Stark]

7 hours ago, Paradis said:

Appreciate the effort that went into this patriot killer. I haven’t spent a ton of time watching Wilson so I confess to having an unfinished opinion. My capital concern with him that makes the rest of his strengths moot at #2, is can he go through progressions? Can he read a defense. I see very little of that right now. He locks on to receiver and just commits throwing to that side of the Field. A lot of those quick outs and such would be picks sixes in the NFL that he gets away with

I didn’t “time” his time to throw but I felt like he had a lot of time to throw. Don’t see him go through any progression. While he moves well the lvl of defense should be a concern. 
 

credit @Patriot Killa for the work/write up, I just don’t see it with Wilson. I know the “hot” qb now that we most like have no shot at Lawrence is Wilson because he just had a good game in a bowl game that shouldn’t exist.

my thoughts on Wilson. No way I take him at 2. I either trade the pick and expedite the rebuild and possibly bring a veteran on to compete with Sam. And as much as I hate to say that we have a lot of needs. Or I take Sewell and figure it out from there. Having a top oline is important to any qb, rb or game plan protect whomever the qb will be for years. 
 

if Wilson is around with a later first round pick and if JD pegs him as his guy fine. I personally don’t see it. I definitely don’t see the overreacting tv scouts calling him Aaron Rodgers lol, and the problem with his game is I see a lot of throws that aren’t completions in the NFL.  
 

this is coming from a guy that advocated taking Mahomes with the 6th pick. And that is not hindsight I said it in threads before the draft.  I just don’t see it with Wilson. He’s the hot button name and JETS fans are so frustrated with the QB play that they seem to want to settle for anything because “no qb can be worse than what we have” 

Remember all the players that look like they are about to be out of the league with Gase and what happens when Gase is no longer in the picture. Whether or not we stick with Sam for another year I think we are best served flipping the 2nd overall pick or taking Sewell at 2  

 

[Shelbyblue]

To much focus on QB when if they don't get the right coach, solidify the line and add a WR or two doesn't matter who's back there.

[Dinamite]

9 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Zach Wilson:

(games watched: vs Boise State 2019, vs UTSA 2020, Louisiana Tech 2020, Coastal Carolina 2020, San Diego State 2020, vs Western Kentucky 2020)

Pros:

• Extremely quick release with A+ arm strength.
• Impressive accuracy on the run and has good touch. Squares hip and fires. 
• Excellent ball placement on back shoulder throws.
• Quick enough to beat defenders off the edge and has impressive acceleration for a QB. He actually has an effective cut move he uses frequently.
• Can throw into tight windows.
• Ball jolts out of his hand effortlessly.
• Very solid accuracy all around but super impressive ball placement on deep passes.
• Good understanding of exposing holes in coverage post-snap.
• Shows great command of the BYU offense.
• Shows the ability to step up in the pocket with confidence.
• Keeps his eyes downfield and is instinctive in the pocket.
• Impressive pocket escapability and regularly makes off-schedule plays
• Above average athlete for his position.
• Confidence, moxie, electric. 
• Known to be a leader with solid work ethic.
• Aggressive passer. Gunslinger mentality.
• Throws effectively from different angles. side arm passes and shovel passes are a regularly used tool from his skill set. 
• Creative/clever passer in regards to ball placement. Off platform/off balance passes still maintain excellent accuracy.
• Elite efficiency and decision making.
• Solid understanding of play action & seems comfortable turning his back to the defense.

 

Cons:

• Ball can dip early on passes at times(seen this mostly on comeback routes) 
• I see a few instances where he will hold onto the ball too long.
• Has a tendency to play “Hero Ball” a bit at times when under pressure.
• While he does show the ability to step up in the pocket, he also has a tendency to back pedal and that is where he could create a big play or he’ll run into some trouble.
• two shoulder injuries & lower level of competition.
• I question his frame by habit but Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield & Russell Wilson have proven it’s possible. He still should look to bulk up for the NFL caliber hits.
• Needs to slide on scrambles more often. I only seen 3 or 4 instances where he slid.
• Needs to find pocket consistency.
• Can be reckless at times when under duress.

 

 

 

                           Overview:

Zach Wilson has insanely impressive arm talent, he is an above average athlete who’s athleticism easily translates into his play whether it be an impressive RB-like scramble off the edge or flicking his wrist and watching the ball cut through the air like a hot knife through butter. He’s a calculated risk taker through the air and shows good decision making with impressive ball placement from any distance, body angle or throwing angle. He has an electric play style that is equally as efficient because he’s seems to be one of the more well rounded duel threats to come out in recent memory. He has this innate ability to change direction under pressure, flip his body the other way thus creating a more difficult angle to get sacked from and he dodges a lot of free rushers on a consistent basis because of that. Zach Wilson also back pedals at times and makes bad decisions trying to keep the play alive, other times he steps ups confidently and zips it over the middle and right between the numbers. I think he needs to find consistency in the pocket but has so many tools to elude those situations as well as his remarkable decision making, you feel like you can toss him out there and he’ll figure it out as he feels it out. My main concerns with Wilson aren’t as much to do with his play but everything to do with his shoulder injuries. He has stayed healthy all year but you need to be able to count on him to continue this into his pro career.

 

                        Player Comparison:

Wilson’s player comp for me is Kyler Murray. Both are excellently well balanced duel threat QB’s who have top notch arm talent and big play ability. Wilson is slightly bigger and a few inches taller but both fit the same mold of QB and skill set.

Thanks for the write up.  How do you compare him to Fields?