So are you still comfortable with Fields or Wilson?

[genot]

53 minutes ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

What is Sam's 'potential' in your estimation? Let's say he gets it turned around - what QB do you compare him to? Is he a MVP? Top 10 QB?

Aaron Rodgers is a good comparison. He can make all the throws. He's mobile and can make things happen outside the pocket. He can run when he has to. Good athlete. The open question is can he read defenses quickly enough, to be consistent game in and game out. If the answer is yes, he' s a top ten QB.

[msena88]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Too bad he never really got to play this year other than that one game.

A fairly big risk reward player.

Completely agree, but if you look at most of the high end QBs in the league they have elite skill sets. To me, I'd rather roll the dice on the guy with the highest ceiling vs a "safer" option like Wilson or Fields. We see it time and again that the "safe" options fall short long term of the guys who are raw but have ability that just can't be taught. Aaron Rodgers said it earlier this year on one of his Mcafee interviews, to him the first thing he would look for in a QB prospect is their arm strength bc that can fix so many things. Of course there have been countless busts who are just big armed guys, but to me if theres a group like this I think you go for the guy with the highest potential.

[slimjasi]

Just now, genot said:

Aaron Rodgers is a good comparison.

[jago]

sam's max with weapons and coaching gets you a 9-7, 10-6 edge of the playoffs
for a few years until cap runs out. mediocrity and a miracle.

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Yes to both. Not taking a QB is just shockingly dumb.

Which is why I'm worried that is exactly what we will do. 

[msena88]

1 minute ago, genot said:

Aaron Rodgers is a good comparison. He can make all the throws. He's mobile and can make things happen outside the pocket. He can run when he has to. Good athlete. The open question is can he read defenses quickly enough, to be consistent game in and game out. If the answer is yes, he' s a top ten QB.

Rodgers is an insane comparison IMO, dude is one of the most gifted passers the game has ever seen and mentally processes the game as well as anyone besides probably Peyton. This last part is really Sam's biggest issue, you listen to interviews with guys like Rodgers and they are so smart that they are always completely in control. They know exactly what the defense is going to do before they do it, Sam is arguably the worst starting QB in the league in that respect.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, jago said:

sam's max with weapons and coaching gets you a 9-7, 10-6 edge of the playoffs
for a few years until cap runs out. mediocrity and a miracle.

i think that's about right.

[Tranquilo]

Taking a QB is never dumb. The most important position by far. I'd take a QB in one of the first two rounds every draft until we hit on one. Though if we keep ******* that up every year, that's pretty embarrassing. 

[genot]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Im not saying he's as good as him. Im saying they have very similar skill sets.

[southparkcpa]

1 minute ago, Tranquilo said:

Taking a QB is never dumb. The most important position by far. I'd take a QB in one of the first two rounds every draft until we hit on one. Though if we keep ******* that up every year, that's pretty embarrassing. 

What's worse is NOT taking one because you have Geno, Hackenburg , McCown and Fitz and you let Mahommes, Watson, Wilson go so you can draft a safety or D Lineman who are off the team in 3 years.    Tranquilo baby!  Calmate! Tienes razon.

[genot]

2 minutes ago, msena88 said:

Rodgers is an insane comparison IMO, dude is one of the most gifted passers the game has ever seen and mentally processes the game as well as anyone besides probably Peyton. This last part is really Sam's biggest issue, you listen to interviews with guys like Rodgers and they are so smart that they are always completely in control. They know exactly what the defense is going to do before they do it, Sam is arguably the worst starting QB in the league in that respect.

They have similar skill sets. Im talking physically. I wasn't asked if he was as good as Rodgers. Wouldn't have responded.

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, genot said:

Im not saying he's as good as him. Im saying they have very similar skill sets.

Rodgers is a killer. He would have told Gase to GTFO 8 games into his tenure. 

The biggest difference between them is between the ears. 

Rodgers also has elite accuracy and a legendary throwing arm, but I digress . . . 

[Skeet Ulrich]

1 minute ago, genot said:

They have similar skill sets. Im talking physically. I wasn't asked if he was as good as Rodgers. Wouldn't have responded.

I think Rodgers has a top 3 arm in terms of strength/velocity. Darnold doesn't have that. Matter of fact, the Jets vertical attack looked way better with Flacco.

 

 

[Tranquilo]

3 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

What's worse is NOT taking one because you have Geno, Hackenburg , McCown and Fitz and you let Mahommes, Watson, Wilson go so you can draft a safety or D Lineman who are off the team in 3 years.    Tranquilo baby!  Calmate! Tienes razon.

Haha. Argentino? 

[genot]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Rodgers is a killer. He would have told Gase to GTFO 8 games into his tenure. 

The biggest difference between them is between the ears. 

Rodgers also has elite accuracy and a legendary throwing, but I digress . . . 

Rodgers had the benefit of sitting his first three years. He learned ths offense watching Brett for that time, with a quality staff and system. Makes a difference

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, genot said:

They have similar skill sets. Im talking physically. I wasn't asked if he was as good as Rodgers. Wouldn't have responded.

it just goes to show you that physical skills really is down the list when evaluating qbs.  look at joe burrow.  

[slimjasi]

Just now, genot said:

Rodgers had the benefit of sitting his first three years. He learned ths offense watching Brett for that time, with a quality staff and system. Makes a difference

I don't disagree that sitting would have helped Sam, but he didn't sit. He played right away - what's done is done. 

[genot]

2 minutes ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

I think Rodgers has a top 3 arm in terms of strength/velocity. Darnold doesn't have that. Matter of fact, the Jets vertical attack looked way better with Flacco.

 

 

Flacco started 4 games. Threw for over 200 yards once. I keep hearing this. And we lost all those games.

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

But that's not something that should change due to a new offensive scheme. I seriously doubt Gase was telling Sam only look at one read and don't worry about reading pre snap defenses and blitzes.  Sure I agree the offensive game plan under Gase did him no favors but the mental aspects of the game should not "devolve". Sam's broken and the big question is , does he have the fight, fire and motivation to make the necessary adjustments . 

I would put nothing past Gase. I can totally see him telling Sam the play design is all predicated  on this guy getting the ball and you need to do all you can to get it to him and you need to throw it from this spot. We already know Sam was not allowed to audible. 

[bitonti]

44 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Except you won’t fina a single place that will have Wilson below top 5 on the big board and Fields outside of the top 5 of any big board. 

I do not care what the big boards say pre workouts 

At this point last year Becton was a Rd 1 cusp players 

[southparkcpa]

5 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

Haha. Argentino? 

No, blanco como un nube pero ... hablo bien espanol y tengo companero/maestro de Buenos Aires.   Le llamo Sr Boludo y me encanta la expresion.

Y tu?

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, genot said:

Flacco started 4 games. Threw for over 200 yards once. I keep hearing this. And we lost all those games.

Not quite. 

He threw for 200 yards twice (half of his starts). 

Meanwhile, Sam threw for 200 yards 4 times in 12 starts (i.e. He failed to reach 200 yards in 2/3 of his starts). 

Neither guy was good, but the offense never looked more explosive than it did against NE on Monday night. When you don't look any better than your 35 year old backup (and, in fact, slightly worse), there is a big problem. 

[Tranquilo]

Just now, southparkcpa said:

No, blanco como un nube pero ... hablo bien espanol y tengo companero/maestro de Buenos Aires.   Le llamo Sr Boludo y me encanta la expresion.

Y tu?

Ahhhh I see. Mi padres son Venezolano y Dominicano. Boludo is very Argentinian! Good name.

[Skeet Ulrich]

2 minutes ago, genot said:

Flacco started 4 games. Threw for over 200 yards once. I keep hearing this. And we lost all those games.

Darnold started 12 games. Threw for over 200 yards 4 times. Same ratio as Flacco. It's almost like the team was really bad this year.

 

[More Cowbell]

31 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

The point is everyone can have a bad pass or two.  Did Mahomes ever have a bad game in college?  How many teams that passed over him wish they could get a do over?     

Do we really need to go over all this again. Yes, Mahomes is very talented but he went to QB heaven when KC picked him. Could you possibly think of a better possible situation. Red could make Darnold look good. 

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I do not care what the big boards say pre workouts 

At this point last year Becton was a Rd 1 cusp players 

But Fields is going to kill the work outs. He's an awesome athlete. He also has known leadership traits and a lot of people are saying he will interview well. 

I don't see where your argument goes. 

[section314]

16 minutes ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

I think Rodgers has a top 3 arm in terms of strength/velocity. Darnold doesn't have that. Matter of fact, the Jets vertical attack looked way better with Flacco.

 

 

Hell, it looked better with Crowder.?

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, genot said:

He played in. Bad scheme, with bad play calling with minimal talent around him. The offense couldn't score and Sam tried to play hero ball. When he felt he had a chance to put points up, he forced throws. He needs to stop that. At 23, with a good system and more talent, it's not inconcievable that he could realize his potential

But it goes beyond what you list. He can't make adjustments , can't read blitzes and gets stuck on certain reads, many times his first  . Playing hero ball is a result of the things I list breaking down. He needs to be rebuilt from the ground up and I don't know many HC's who will want that project at the most important position on the field. 

[oatmeal]

31 minutes ago, genot said:

Aaron Rodgers is a good comparison. He can make all the throws. He's mobile and can make things happen outside the pocket. He can run when he has to. Good athlete. The open question is can he read defenses quickly enough, to be consistent game in and game out. If the answer is yes, he' s a top ten QB.

 

delusions of grandeur

[Icer]

Would love to see the Venn Diagram between Stick with Sammy and Fields is Garbage posters

[56mehl56]

49 minutes ago, Welp said:

You think being on a dysfunctional Jets team the last 3 years is being handed an opportunity on a golden platter? How dense are you?

How dense am I . How many starting QB's are there in the NFL ? Its a once in a lifetime opportunity that requires full mental and physical preparation , sure he hasn't had the best supporting cast or HC but he has to put in the work to overcome the mental aspect of that game that everything else is built upon. This isn't USC he can't rely on off script plays and improvisation for all his success. 

[56mehl56]

19 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I would put nothing past Gase. I can totally see him telling Sam the play design is all predicated  on this guy getting the ball and you need to do all you can to get it to him and you need to throw it from this spot. We already know Sam was not allowed to audible. 

If you truly believe this I have some ocean front property in Nebraska I'd like to sell you. 

[bitonti]

14 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

But Fields is going to kill the work outs. He's an awesome athlete. He also has known leadership traits and a lot of people are saying he will interview well. 

I don't see where your argument goes. 

sewell is going to murder workouts harder than fields will 

sewell has more leadership traits than Fields does 

I'm talking about a player, that for Fields guys, might as well be my imaginary friend

it's like he doesn't exist around here 

but he does and like Godzilla or king kong he's out there, lurking... one day Sewell is going to have his workouts and everyone will remember why they gave this dude the Outland as a true Sophomore 

 

 

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, Icer said:

Would love to see the Venn Diagram between Stick with Sammy and Fields is Garbage posters

Fields is far from garbage

he's just not worth 2 overall

this is the highest draft pick this team has had for decades 

they can't just reach out of need

[Augustiniak]

i still say there will be a great debate within the jets between keeping darnold, trading back and getting picks and taking wilson.  i think wilson is going to be an instant hit, a star.