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Nightmare scenario: What does JD do in the draft and free agency if Deshaun Watson ends up in Miami?


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14 minutes ago, chad2coles said:

I've said the whole time - #2, #34, '22 1st, '23 1st.  Q and Becton are not involved in any way.  The only wiggle room would be switching #34 with #23, or adding a day 2 pick.  No team can beat the original offer unless the Texans are willing to build around Tua, and if they are, he goes to the Dolphins.

[not intended towards chad2coles but this is the post that I last saw on this]

Seriously people.  Just because some deluded dreamers on the Texans forum are salivating over getting a stupid package from the Jets including Quinnen and Becton and 4 first round picks does not warrant even bringing it up here.  It's a pipe dream and repeating it here undermines any point you are trying to make.  If you want to argue that the cost to get Watson is too high, you should be talking about realistic picks, not the insane plot scenarios that even most Texan fans have shot down on their own boards.

It's fine that you believe Wilson is the right move, and it's fine that people disagree, but distorting reality isn't making the debate better.

 

 

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There was a time when we had Marino and Kelly in our division. Talk about a nightmare. In my opinion, should that happen, you create a balanced football team. Keep SD, trade back and get as much smart

If the Jets make a fair offer for Watson and he ends up in Miami, so be it. But if we're looking for a template to model, it's not Miami's, it's Buffalo's.  Buffalo did a great job evaluating All

Does that mean we are waiting for them both to retire before we try to compete? 

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10 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Laughs at them for giving up a ton of picks and watches them hang around in the bottom of the division because the rest of the team still sucks and they have no money or picks to fix it. 
When was the last time a big named player was traded for a bunch of picks and paid a bunch of money that it worked out for the team trading for him?

When is the last time that an elite, young franchise QB was the one being traded for those picks?

Oh, right, it's never happened before.  

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What does JD do if Deshaun Watson ends up in Miami?

 

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  • Get all his car windows tinted
  • Change his name
  • Get a stunt double
  • Get a food taster
  • Make all future players' bonuses tied to the GM's good health
  • Lose 100 lbs so he won't be recognized
  • Get a pre-emptive restraining order on Saleh to not come within 50 feet of him 
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42 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

When is the last time that an elite, young franchise QB was the one being traded for those picks?

Oh, right, it's never happened before.  

That’s not what I asked. When was the last time a big trade work out for the team trading away picks?

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2 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

They still would have their pick of Wilson or Fields and trade Tua.  3 and 18 and Tua versus 2 and 23 and Darnold.  I'd take the fins offer.  And I'm sure they'd even sweeten the deal.  

The won't have their pick of Wilson for Fields - it would be just the one the Jets didn't take. If they love one QB and not the other, they have to make a deal with the Jets. If not, they can look like fools by trading their best asset for their own pick.

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2 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

The won't have their pick of Wilson for Fields - it would be just the one the Jets didn't take. If they love one QB and not the other, they have to make a deal with the Jets. If not, they can look like fools by trading their best asset for their own pick.

Last time I checked they don’t have it. 

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4 hours ago, genot said:

Watson is a very talented QB. He. Played for a team that tailor made the offense for his skillset. He played in a very weak division. I wouldn't gamble that 2 years down the road Darniold will be as effective with the Jet's as Watson would be with a Dolphin team. It's just not a sure thing as people seem to think it is. That is , with the Dolphins getting Watson, we would have no chance of competing with them or the Bills. Why we love the sport so much is that anything can happen, that before the fact we didn't think possible. Call me a starry eyed dreamer. Call me something worse. We're Jet fans. We have a very jaded view on anything positive that could occur.

You really sound like someone just making stuff up off the top of his head.  QBs dont lead the league with a 4 win team because theyre on a team that tailors is offense to him.  By trading away his best WR.  Firing the coach who tailored the team and offense to his game.  

I would, if gambling, and I'm a Darnold fan, gamble you would lose any bet that makes Darnold as productive as Watson.  The surer bet is that Watson still leads the league or is near the top as a NFL QB and Darnold isnt.  Thats the chalk bet.  

The comment was Watson in the division would make Darnold play better.  Thats pretty much as funny a statement as you could make, one that makes the least amount of sense from any angle

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4 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Yeah, so, now it's laziness or lack of motivation that is the reason Darnold sucks...

Is someone keeping a list?

I dont think anyone is saying its been a lack of motivation.  I think someone here who doesnt want to trade for Watson is selling the idea that Watson in the division would motivate Darnold.  Kind of ridiculous actually, Watsons accomplishments dont exist unless they occur in the division?  OK

Ignoring that there should be a no more motivating factor than his workout/study partner and friend, Josh Allen in the same division who just finished a season that puts him at the top of the QB ladder

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3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:
  • Hide
  • Get all his car windows tinted
  • Change his name
  • Get a stunt double
  • Get a food taster
  • Make all future players' bonuses tied to the GM's good health
  • Lose 100 lbs so he won't be recognized
  • Get a pre-emptive restraining order on Saleh to not come within 50 feet of him 

Sounds like you’ve thought this scenario through quite a bit.

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5 hours ago, New York Mick said:

That’s not what I asked. When was the last time a big trade work out for the team trading away picks?

Well the Bucs traded a 1st round pick for Revis and 8 years later...Super Bowl!

Bazinga!

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3 hours ago, New York Mick said:

That’s not what I asked. When was the last time a big trade work out for the team trading away picks?

These guys!!!

Kings get: Gretzky, McSorley and center Mike Krushelnysk
Oilers get: Center Jimmy Carson, wing Martin Gelinas, first-round draft picks in 1989, 1991 and 1993, and $15 million.

Lakers get: Anthony Davis
Pelicans get: Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, Josh Hart and three first-round draft picks

Yankees get: Babe Ruth
Red Sox get:  125 Thousand Dollars cash money.  (ok no draft picks but couldn't resist).  Fun fact: Can't trade draft picks in MLB. 

Oh Football!! right!!!

Bucs get: "Chucky" Gruden
Raiders get:  Four draft picks (two first rounders and two second rounders) and cash in return. 

Pats get: Bill Bellichikencheat
Jet get: first round pick

Oh Players!!! right!

Chiefs get: Patrick Mahomes
Bills get: first round 27th pick, 2017 third round pick and 2018 first round pick. 

Texans get: Deshaun Watson
Browns get: First rounder No. 25 and 2018 first-round pick.

Oh Traded Players, not draft day trades!!!!   None.  Our trade will be the first!  I did find these, but it's not like 3 ones for one player.

49ers get: Steve Young
Bucs get: second and fourth round draft picks in the 1987 Draft.

Pats get: Randy Moss
Raiders get: 4th rounder

Jets get: Brandon Marshall
Bears get: 5th rounder

Colts get: Eric Dickerson
Bills and Rams get: Colts first and 2 seconds.

Giants get: Fran Tarkenton
Vikings get:  4 draft picks

Rams get: Marshall Faulk
Colts get: Second and Fifth

Jets get: Brandon Marshall
Bears get: 5th round pick

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, dcJet said:

 

Oh Traded Players, not draft day trades!!!!   None.  Our trade will be the first!  I did find these, but it's not like 3 ones for one player.

49ers get: Steve Young
Bucs get: second and fourth round draft picks in the 1987 Draft.

Pats get: Randy Moss
Raiders get: 4th rounder

Jets get: Brandon Marshall
Bears get: 5th rounder

Colts get: Eric Dickerson
Bills and Rams get: Colts first and 2 seconds.

Giants get: Fran Tarkenton
Vikings get:  4 draft picks

Rams get: Marshall Faulk
Colts get: Second and Fifth

Jets get: Brandon Marshall
Bears get: 5th round pick

 

 

 

First of all, we only traded for Brandon Marshall once.

And the best 1st round pick for a player I can think of that worked out for the team trading the picks was Favre to GB.  That turned out to be a pretty good deal.

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

You really sound like someone just making stuff up off the top of his head.  QBs dont lead the league with a 4 win team because theyre on a team that tailors is offense to him.  By trading away his best WR.  Firing the coach who tailored the team and offense to his game.  

I would, if gambling, and I'm a Darnold fan, gamble you would lose any bet that makes Darnold as productive as Watson.  The surer bet is that Watson still leads the league or is near the top as a NFL QB and Darnold isnt.  Thats the chalk bet.  

The comment was Watson in the division would make Darnold play better.  Thats pretty much as funny a statement as you could make, one that makes the least amount of sense from any angle

I think when someone has been rumoured to be taking your job away, it can be a strong motivator. If Sam was a 27 yr old QB with limited abilities, i'd agree with you. From a physical standpoint, Sam has all the tools to be just as effective as Watson has been. It's his mental approach that needs grooming. Bill O Brian installed a spread, shotgun offense with the Texans to play to Watson's stengths. I'll try and post the article. And i said, i wouldn't gamble on it. Lol 

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40 minutes ago, dcJet said:

These guys!!!

Kings get: Gretzky, McSorley and center Mike Krushelnysk
Oilers get: Center Jimmy Carson, wing Martin Gelinas, first-round draft picks in 1989, 1991 and 1993, and $15 million.

Lakers get: Anthony Davis
Pelicans get: Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, Josh Hart and three first-round draft picks

Yankees get: Babe Ruth
Red Sox get:  125 Thousand Dollars cash money.  (ok no draft picks but couldn't resist).  Fun fact: Can't trade draft picks in MLB. 

Oh Football!! right!!!

Bucs get: "Chucky" Gruden
Raiders get:  Four draft picks (two first rounders and two second rounders) and cash in return. 

Pats get: Bill Bellichikencheat
Jet get: first round pick

Oh Players!!! right!

Chiefs get: Patrick Mahomes
Bills get: first round 27th pick, 2017 third round pick and 2018 first round pick. 

Texans get: Deshaun Watson
Browns get: First rounder No. 25 and 2018 first-round pick.

Oh Traded Players, not draft day trades!!!!   None.  Our trade will be the first!  I did find these, but it's not like 3 ones for one player.

49ers get: Steve Young
Bucs get: second and fourth round draft picks in the 1987 Draft.

Pats get: Randy Moss
Raiders get: 4th rounder

Jets get: Brandon Marshall
Bears get: 5th rounder

Colts get: Eric Dickerson
Bills and Rams get: Colts first and 2 seconds.

Giants get: Fran Tarkenton
Vikings get:  4 draft picks

Rams get: Marshall Faulk
Colts get: Second and Fifth

Jets get: Brandon Marshall
Bears get: 5th round pick

 

 

 

So basically it’s never benefited the team giving up a bunch of picks for a player. 

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

You really sound like someone just making stuff up off the top of his head.  QBs dont lead the league with a 4 win team because theyre on a team that tailors is offense to him.  By trading away his best WR.  Firing the coach who tailored the team and offense to his game.  

I would, if gambling, and I'm a Darnold fan, gamble you would lose any bet that makes Darnold as productive as Watson.  The surer bet is that Watson still leads the league or is near the top as a NFL QB and Darnold isnt.  Thats the chalk bet.  

The comment was Watson in the division would make Darnold play better.  Thats pretty much as funny a statement as you could make, one that makes the least amount of sense from any angle

Type in google search bar Deshaun Watson shotgun offense. Big ESPN article on the Texans offense with Watson. Im not making anything up .

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5 hours ago, nycdan said:

[not intended towards chad2coles but this is the post that I last saw on this]

Seriously people.  Just because some deluded dreamers on the Texans forum are salivating over getting a stupid package from the Jets including Quinnen and Becton and 4 first round picks does not warrant even bringing it up here.  It's a pipe dream and repeating it here undermines any point you are trying to make.  If you want to argue that the cost to get Watson is too high, you should be talking about realistic picks, not the insane plot scenarios that even most Texan fans have shot down on their own boards.

It's fine that you believe Wilson is the right move, and it's fine that people disagree, but distorting reality isn't making the debate better.

 

 

Strawman arguments abound.  I think over/under for most fans is 3 firsts.

As much as I want Watson, I have a limit too.  I'll do four firsts or three and Q.

Immediately, Watson makes everyone on the offense better and may attract a star FA who we couldn't sniff otherwise.

Watson can play another 10-15 years. Two years from now, it will be a relief to talk about BPA in the draft instead of who the latest unprojectable QB took to the prom.

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13 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

So basically it’s never benefited the team giving up a bunch of picks for a player. 

This time is gonna be different.  I tell ya.

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You draft a QB @ 2 and build a team around the kid to help him succeed ... something the Jets have never done.

The OP makes it sound as if we just lay down and die because we lost out on a QB that still hasn't won anything in this league , even though we can't really argue about his skills .
We have plenty of draft picks/$ to build this team moving forward without Watson , we just have to hope JD is as good as we think he is & he uses those picks / FA wisely .
No matter what we need to get to the QB so building this defense is just as important as who will be under center. Just look at what a dominant D did to one of the best young QB's in the league in the SB... you get to the QB you win games in this league , I don't care who that QB is.

I feel good about this organization , moving forward with or without Watson ... we finally seem to have the right people running the show , even though the jury is still out on Saleh , but I have more optimism than I've had since Parcells was hired all those years ago.
 

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1 hour ago, dcJet said:

Strawman arguments abound.  I think over/under for most fans is 3 firsts.

As much as I want Watson, I have a limit too.  I'll do four firsts or three and Q.

Immediately, Watson makes everyone on the offense better and may attract a star FA who we couldn't sniff otherwise.

Watson can play another 10-15 years. Two years from now, it will be a relief to talk about BPA in the draft instead of who the latest unprojectable QB took to the prom.

My limit is lower than yours.  I value Q as two first round picks by himself.  No way do I do 3 1st rounders and a likely Pro Bowl DL, especially when one of the picks is #2.  A mid-1st round pick is about 1,000 points.  Rumors abound that HOU would want at least three 1st round picks and maybe some more.  Call it 3.500 points.

Our #2 and #23 are worth just about that by themselves.  Throw in one of our 1st rounders next year and now you're over 4,000 points.   That's either enough for HOU or it's not.  If they are rational, those three picks are a ticket to greatly accelerating their rebuild.  Take the QB and have two more 1st round picks to provide some talent around him.  No other team in the league but MIA can come close to providing that much draft value.  And no other team in the league is going to solve HOU's QB problem.

So that's my absolute ceiling but I'm comfortable if JD's is lower.  If they go scorched earth with Watson instead of taking that, so be it.  We move on.  But I'm not doing the MIN side of the Herschel Walker deal no matter how good Watson is.  I'm not stripping the cupboard bare to get one player.  I'd rather roll the dice on Sam, Fields or Wilson and use the other picks to put a better team around them.  I certainly am not trading one of the two legitimate star players on our team along with three picks.  If the deal doesn't happen after I made a reasonable offer, I can sleep at night knowing I did the right thing for my team.  

Of course YMMV.  I just don't want to cripple the future and end up rolling 8-8 records for the next four years because we can't get over the hump.

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1 hour ago, dcJet said:

Strawman arguments abound.  I think over/under for most fans is 3 firsts.

As much as I want Watson, I have a limit too.  I'll do four firsts or three and Q.

Immediately, Watson makes everyone on the offense better and may attract a star FA who we couldn't sniff otherwise.

Watson can play another 10-15 years. Two years from now, it will be a relief to talk about BPA in the draft instead of who the latest unprojectable QB took to the prom.

Four firsts. Or three and Q. Now that's hilarious.

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1 hour ago, genot said:

Type in google search bar Deshaun Watson shotgun offense. Big ESPN article on the Texans offense with Watson. Im not making anything up .

Wait an offense geared towards a QBs strengths is a problem?  Because?

Mahomes isnt good because he runs a shotgun offense geared to his strengths too?

 

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2 hours ago, genot said:

I think when someone has been rumoured to be taking your job away, it can be a strong motivator. If Sam was a 27 yr old QB with limited abilities, i'd agree with you. From a physical standpoint, Sam has all the tools to be just as effective as Watson has been. It's his mental approach that needs grooming. Bill O Brian installed a spread, shotgun offense with the Texans to play to Watson's stengths. I'll try and post the article. And i said, i wouldn't gamble on it. Lol 

Watson on Miami, adding him to the division isnt a threat to Darnold.  

If the Jets roll with Darnold its because the CS believes Darnold can excel in the Shanahan offense.  That it plays to Darnolds strengths.  You know how offenses are geared towards a QB.  Is this bad, a knock against Darnold?  

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25 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Wait an offense geared towards a QBs strengths is a problem?  Because?

Mahomes isnt good because he runs a shotgun offense geared to his strengths too?

 

I never said watson wasn't good. Did i. We're in complete agreement on Darnold. System fit is pretty important. As screwed up as the Texans sre, they tailored that offense for their QB . Now it's the Jet's turn, with Darnold or Wilson.. My point was for the first time Darnold is hearing about his job security. It could prove to be a motivating factor. Kinda cool to prove the doubters wrong.

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36 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Wait an offense geared towards a QBs strengths is a problem?  Because?

Mahomes isnt good because he runs a shotgun offense geared to his strengths too?

 

You said i was making that up. Thats what good coaches do. Play to the QB's strengths. Unlike what we had for the last two years here.

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1 hour ago, genot said:

You said i was making that up. Thats what good coaches do. Play to the QB's strengths. Unlike what we had for the last two years here.

What are you even talking about?  

You brought up shot gun offenses and that Houston geared their offense around Watson as if that was a detriment.  

I like Sam.  Hes not Watson.  Will never be Watson.  

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10 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

They still would have their pick of Wilson or Fields and trade Tua.  3 and 18 and Tua versus 2 and 23 and Darnold.  I'd take the fins offer.  And I'm sure they'd even sweeten the deal.  

Fins cannot top a potential Jets offer, period, lol. I'd prefer 2 over 3 and you still guarantee yourself Fields or Wilson. In most cases, teams usually have one guy way ahead of the other. 

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someone call up Jacksonville and tell them there doing it wrong.

they cant draft Trevor with such a bad team around him.  trade the pick. stockpile those golden lottery tickets called #1 picks. they can get a FQB next year, or the year after that. no rush. FQBs grow on trees. ( sarcasm )

i dont know if you guys have really thought this through.

if we keep Sam one more year and he still sucks then what? we draft one next year? ok fine...

you got to figure with a new coach and the 2nd easiest schedule we can win 7 games even with a sucky Sam. just look at 2019 under the same conditions. looking at this year as a template that puts us at the 13th or 15th pick. . even with 6 wins that puts us between 10-12. 

we could sit there and hope we get lucky. or we can move up but that will cost us those prized #1 draft picks. cant do that. how will we ever build our team if we give those up. ( sarcasm ). and according to some here who say our 2OA is worth 3 1sts i doubt the guys who want to save those picks will want to give them up to move up to a 2OA in 2022. 

of course the " keep Sam " crowd will still be here. oh he needs another year with Saleh. he need more weapons. look we improved by 5 wins. give him one more year. smh

and then the " build the roster " crowd again will say...... im not giving up those 3 1st rd picks to move up. we will get a QB in 2023. yep just keep kicking the ball down the road.

the problem with the " build the roster " strategy is that the roster will get better. meaning more wins. and picking later in the 1st rd. sooner or later we need to get a FQB. sooner or later if we build the roster now we will have to give up a bunch of picks to move up. 

and what team picking in the top 5 will want a 15OA. that will cost us ALOT

of course we could do what we do best. hope and pray. 

hope and pray a Mahomes falls to 10 , a Watson falls to 12. . hope and pray everyone misses a Lamar Jackson and he falls to the end of the 1st.......  that's a lot of hope and pray. 

and theres the "draft a FQB at 2OA "  group. TBH i hear alot of good and alot of bad about all these QBs not named Trevor. but we all know the draft is no sure thing. 

so there you have the options of life without Watson. and to me it seams like at best were a 500 team. maybe get lucky a year here and there with a FA vet QB who can get us a 10 win season and a WC game.

if Watson is serious about accepting a trade here than Woody has to get him. yes Woody! there is no way hes not invovled in this. no way he lets him go because Houston wants one more draft pick then JD wants to give. 

 

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1 hour ago, genot said:

I never said watson wasn't good. Did i. We're in complete agreement on Darnold. System fit is pretty important. As screwed up as the Texans sre, they tailored that offense for their QB . Now it's the Jet's turn, with Darnold or Wilson.. My point was for the first time Darnold is hearing about his job security. It could prove to be a motivating factor. Kinda cool to prove the doubters wrong.

Every so-called doubter would find it “cool” to be proven wrong as well. I just want the Jets to have a top-notch starting QB; I don’t require the luxury of picking or discarding people from the mix for whatever other reasons (let alone because I have outed myself as having expressed doubts about this or that one). 

No doubt competition can be a heavy (and necessary) motivator for some, but I don’t see a primary or secondary problem of Darnold’s as stemming from a lack of motivation. There haven’t been any leaks in 3 years that he’s dogging it in the weight room, missing meetings, not really knowing the playbook, or is giving only minimal effort because he’s had 100% job security with no competition. 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

Fins cannot top a potential Jets offer, period, lol. I'd prefer 2 over 3 and you still guarantee yourself Fields or Wilson. In most cases, teams usually have one guy way ahead of the other. 

Fins can top it because they will add more to the package.  JD will not trade 3 #1's. Read between the lines.

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17 hours ago, nycdan said:

You are making a very tenuous assumption that the Texans would see Tua as their QB going forward.  I have no such sense that he's viewed that way.  Removing him from the equation, our picks slightly trump MIA's.  Everything really boils down to the fact that they probably need to bring in the QB of the future this season.  It could be Tua.  It could be the #2 pick.  It could be the #3 pick.  This is why I don't think CAR really has a chance unless there is a second trade up involved.

Tua, like Darnold, is just another trade chip if Texans dont want to keep either.  They are possible considerations or can be traded or not even included in a trade for Watson. I assume Nothing. I'm just pointing out possibilities.

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18 hours ago, chad2coles said:

The Jets went 0-2 against the Dolphins with Fitzpatrick at QB.  Watson isn't Aaron Rodgers.  At Watson's age, Rodgers had 10,000 less passing yards, no winning seasons, 75 less passing TDs, a lower completion percentage, lower QB rating, and more interceptions per game.  Also, much lower rushing numbers.  And that's not to say that Watson is going to be a better QB than Rodgers.

Watson is not as good as you guys are hyping him up to be.  Adam Gase and Greg Williams last year couldn’t coach their way out of a paper bag that’s why we lost to the dolphins

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