***OFFICIAL*** FIRE JOE DOUGLAS THREAD

[Wit]

4 hours ago, SAR I said:

No one is blaming Zach Wilson for 1-4.

We are simply saying he sucks and Joe Douglas picked a bust.  Again.

SAR I

He may be a bust and you got in early, but it’s a clownish and trolling move to proclaim it now. I guess you figure that more often the Jets are wrong and if he turns out to be good people here won’t give a crap that you trolled this board and sucked out any positive energy for your own amusement. 

[Claymation]

 

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Wit said:

He may be a bust and you got in early, but it’s a clownish and trolling move to proclaim it now. I guess you figure that more often the Jets are wrong and if he turns out to be good people here won’t give a crap that you trolled this board and sucked out any positive energy for your own amusement. 

Why are you in a thread calling for the firing of our general manager and expecting ‘positive energy’?

SAR I

[Wit]

12 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Why are you in a thread calling for the firing of our general manager and expecting ‘positive energy’?

SAR I

This is in the thread asking who zachs hopkins is, and there are about 100 examples of you doing this. I didn’t say what I was IE wasn’t expecting in this thread, just stating what you do on this site in a daily basis. I also respond to you (in a post above) with respect because I respect that we have different opinions and can have discourse. It’s not respectful though to purposely ignore and bait the fan base here constantly. That’s trolling. 

[doitny]

3 hours ago, SAR I said:

1.  Sam Darnold would have played competently enough this season and next to allow the offensive rookies to develop.  Right now they are collecting dust, unused, ineffective.

2.  Keeping Adam Gase would have brought needed continuity.  And, let's face it, a more basic offensive system that is easier for young guys to learn and execute, hence the 7 win season.

3.  The best young QB's seem to be drafted out of the Top 5 slots you seem to be afraid of aspiring to.  Josh Allen #7, Lamar Jackson #32, Justin Herbert #6, Mac Jones #15.  We certainly would have had the draft capital and players needed to jump up and get someone if needed.

Bottom line is, any NFL team that is hopelessly a 1 or 2 win team can't possibly develop the very young players that are supposedly here to mature into champions.  If the roster and coaching staff falls that far below acceptability, even the talented players on the team fall to pieces.

SAR I

1. have you seen Sam lately? hes not much without his super RB which we don't have. and what rookies do you speak of...Moore and Mims?? so they would play more with Sam here? or with Gase? you know that right? 

how about this... Sam has targeted just one of his 3 WRs...D.J Moore has 50 targets and 35 catches... Marshal has 20 and 12 and Robbie 29 and 13... i dont see Sam giving our Rookie WRs much more then they already have. 

btw Moore has 20 Targets and 8 catches..thats 3rd on the team and by next game he will be 2nd cause Berrios is ahead of him but is now see almost no playing time since the top 3 WRs are back.

2. i am going to remember this. sorry but Gase is gone.. but im glad to see your willing to keep HCs for continuity.

so i cant count on you to support Robert Saleh getting 3 years right?

3. wanna play that game? 

Peyton#1 Eli#1, Luck#1...Burrow#1....Murray#1...Rivers#4... i could go on?

your a sly fellow. you could have easily said Mahomes or Watson on your list but instead went with Mac Jones knowing it would get a rise out of this board. so you know after 5 games that he is going to be great... but Wilson is already a bust... what are you nostraSARus ?

that right there pal is why some people call you a troll. not because they disagree with you.

[JustInFudge]

5 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

The worst thing about this place is the race to be an early adopter.  At least with Douglas he has been around a bit.  People trying to be the first to announce that LaFleur or Wilson are busts are pretty premature.  Sure there are warning signs, but c'mon.

I much prefer, Come'on!

[JustInFudge]

4 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Did you seriously upvote your own post?  

Bro, he gave himself the fuchsia trophy for this one

4 hours ago, SAR I said:

My major positions over the last decade:

1.  Rex Ryan is an awful head coach only interested in promoting the myth that he's a great defensive coordinator to get his next job.

2.  We should have kept Brian Schottenheimer and not brought in Tony Sporano, someone unqualified for the offensive coordinator position.

3.  Mike Tannenbaum did something innovative, got away from risky draft picks, brought in a ton of known free agents, and almost won us a Super Bowl, twice.

4.  Mark Sanchez had that postseason 'it' factor and was the best young QB prospect we've had since Joe Namath and did nothing to support him and allowed Rex Ryan to scapegoat him.  We should have kept him instead of thinking he was so easily replaced.

5.  The Jets have a horrible habit of overplaying players who then turn to weed and expensive jewelry and never play hard again, we never learn from this mistake, we keep making it over and over again.

6.  Adam Gase is a very good rebuilding head coach, he was able to get a broken and injured roster to not lose focus, not become dysfunctional, act professional, and win games.  We should hold onto him until we're rebuilt and ready to take the next step.

Tell me, where was I wrong?  

SAR I

 

[JustInFudge]

4 hours ago, SAR I said:

JN Illuminati on the right.  Like we need to take crap from them when they haven't been right about a damned thing, ever.

SAR I

And this one.  

That's it, it's neg bomb time!

[doitny]

5 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

The worst thing about this place is the race to be an early adopter.  At least with Douglas he has been around a bit.  People trying to be the first to announce that LaFleur or Wilson are busts are pretty premature.  Sure there are warning signs, but c'mon.

you didnt hear? Max gives out prizes for the 1st 50 people to get predictions right. 

[JustInFudge]

Just now, doitny said:

you didnt hear? Max gives out prizes for the 1st 50 people to get predictions right. 

What kind of prizes?

[JTJet]

12 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

What kind of prizes?

Not the kind you want...

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, JTJet said:

Not the kind you want...

You don't know JiF

[thebuzzardman]

17 hours ago, SAR I said:

Sam Darnold had a worse OL, a worse set of weapons, the worst HC/OC in the history of the NFL, was battling mononucleosis, had a harder schedule and managed to win 7 games!

Drumroll please....  He had better coaching!  Turns out, Adam Gase does a great job with a broken rebuilding injured roster and Robert Saleh is nothing more than a head cheerleader with a slogan no one believes in allowing the world's most sophisticated offense to be installed with a quarterback that can't make a 5 yard throw, an immobile offensive line, and a neophyte offensive coordinator. 

SAR I

Gase sucked. 

Saleh might not be any good either, but Gase is just horrible. 

[Scott Dierking]

The problem is not JD. The problem is above JD and the lack of football acumen at an extra layer above the GM. I have been saying this for years.

The Browns have been mentioned in this thread and the Browns realized that, and id it the right way. They hired a CSO (Chief Strategy Officer) in John DePodesta. DePodesta is an analytics guy and an organizational builder. 

My continued rant on this franchise is that it is tooooo marketing heavy, and sensitive to fan criticism, and knee jerks to the wind. They need someone with a plan at a high level, and feed information to the GLM and build around the position.

It is not JDs fault. Provide him the tools, analytics and commitment for building a winning ORGANIZATION. 

[freestater]

Honestly,  can't understand the thinking that this team making the wrong decision about a GM or HC hiring would be an outlier. Another staff that can't put together a functional, winning team isnt a crazed conspiracy theory, its our team's entire history. 

[SAR I]

46 minutes ago, thebuzzardman said:

Gase sucked. 

Saleh might not be any good either, but Gase is just horrible. 

That's sort of my point.  We're the Jets, we're the worst destination in all of sports, so we don't attract A or B caliber talent.

It seems like every time we flip head coaches things get worse, and with Gase the thing he excelled at was keeping a broken, injured, flawed roster with a hopeless losing record together, playing focused, acting professionally, and winning games.  That's exactly what we need now and we know Gase was good at it.  Saleh?  We haven't seen him hit the abyss yet but we know the players aren't playing very hard and that's against his 'no brake' philosophy.

Gase and Darnold with this roster and this easy schedule would be helping the young players develop a lot better than Saleh and Wilson.  Gase would have Mims starting, he didn't play any psychological games with his players.  Darnold would be league average, we'd be no worse than 3-2 right now and the players would still have something to play for.

A rebuilding head coach and a winning head coach are two different things.  We had a good rebuilding head coach and should have punted him, and Sam, after 2021 if/when we were ready to turn the corner.  We let our draft position dictate a premature move at QB and that domino forced a premature move at HC and it didn't work.

SAR I

[SAR I]

21 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

The problem is not JD. The problem is above JD and the lack of football acumen at an extra layer above the GM. I have been saying this for years.

The Browns have been mentioned in this thread and the Browns realized that, and id it the right way. They hired a CSO (Chief Strategy Officer) in John DePodesta. DePodesta is an analytics guy and an organizational builder. 

My continued rant on this franchise is that it is tooooo marketing heavy, and sensitive to fan criticism, and knee jerks to the wind. They need someone with a plan at a high level, and feed information to the GLM and build around the position.

It is not JDs fault. Provide him the tools, analytics and commitment for building a winning ORGANIZATION. 

Great post right up to the "it's not JD's fault" part.

He can't pick players.  His hit rate is abysmal.  We have the right strategy.  We just chose a GM who picks bad players while other teams have GM's that get it right.  We can't give Douglas another draft just to screw it up again.  We're already 2 years behind schedule because of his 2020 and 2021 catastrophes.

SAR I

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

That's sort of my point.  We're the Jets, we're the worst destination in all of sports, so we don't attract A or B caliber talent.

It seems like every time we flip head coaches things get worse, and with Gase the thing he excelled at was keeping a broken, injured, flawed roster with a hopeless losing record together, playing focused, acting professionally, and winning games.  That's exactly what we need now and we know Gase was good at it.  Saleh?  We haven't seen him hit the abyss yet but we know the players aren't playing very hard and that's against his 'no brake' philosophy.

Gase and Darnold with this roster and this easy schedule would be helping the young players develop a lot better than Saleh and Wilson.  Gase would have Mims starting, he didn't play any psychological games with his players.  Darnold would be league average, we'd be no worse than 3-2 right now and the players would still have something to play for.

A rebuilding head coach and a winning head coach are two different things.  We had a good rebuilding head coach and should have punted him, and Sam, after 2021 if/when we were ready to turn the corner.  We let our draft position dictate a premature move at QB and that domino forced a premature move at HC and it didn't work.

SAR I

I am going to start to call you "Henny":

1. You repeat the same schtick over and over again. Ala Henny Youngman, repeating the same joke of "Take my wife. Please".  And the audience groans, "Ah, geez with this guy. Can't he do any new material?".

2 After Henny Penny. Nothing excites you more to stir the masses than your "Sky is falling refrain".

Nice job, Henny.

[SAR I]

14 minutes ago, freestater said:

Honestly,  can't understand the thinking that this team making the wrong decision about a GM or HC hiring would be an outlier. Another staff that can't put together a functional, winning team isnt a crazed conspiracy theory, its our team's entire history. 

We've got to get the GM right and stop with these feeble attempts to "do it the right way" and  "pair a GM and HC that are buddies".

We need to churn and burn GM's every 2 years and not stop until we get one that hits 70% of his draft picks and free agent acquisitions.  "Give a rookie GM time to grow" is complete bullsh-t because by the time he's a GM he's spent 15 years as a local scout, regional scout, national scout, chief of scouting, and assistant GM,  Someone like Joe Douglas has been groomed to nail the f-cking draft since some of our posters were in diapers, picking players isn't something brand new to a GM.

Joe Douglas has been here 30 months and his hit rate is somewhere around 20%.  That's not only unacceptable, it's laughable.  It can't go on.

SAR I

[SAR I]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I am going to start to call you "Henny":

1. You repeat the same schtick over and over again. Ala Henny Youngman, repeating the same joke of "Take my wife. Please".  And the audience groans, "Ah, geez with this guy. Can't he do any new material?".

2 After Henny Penny. Nothing excites you more to stir the masses than your "Sky is falling refrain".

Nice job, Henny.

Why are you in a thread calling for Joe Douglas' firing when clearly you support him?  Go create a happy thread about extending Joe Douglas and you can carry on your ridiculous love affair over there.

I am going to start to call you "Dreamer":

1.  You defend an indefensible position.

2.  You attack other posters instead of admitting every take and every idea you've ever had for any Jets GM, HC, or QB was dead wrong.

3.  Not even a border fence can keep you out of threads that you find disagreeable.

Nice job, Dreamer.

SAR I

[Maxman]

22 minutes ago, SAR I said:

We've got to get the GM right and stop with these feeble attempts to "do it the right way" and  "pair a GM and HC that are buddies".

We need to churn and burn GM's every 2 years and not stop until we get one that hits 70% of his draft picks and free agent acquisitions.  "Give a rookie GM time to grow" is complete bullsh-t because by the time he's a GM he's spent 15 years as a local scout, regional scout, national scout, chief of scouting, and assistant GM,  Someone like Joe Douglas has been groomed to nail the f-cking draft since some of our posters were in diapers, picking players isn't something brand new to a GM.

Joe Douglas has been here 30 months and his hit rate is somewhere around 20%.  That's not only unacceptable, it's laughable.  It can't go on.

SAR I

So we need to fire someone before we can grade them. Great plan lol.

The Jets are going to have a strong November and December. The will end the year with Zach Wilson clearly showing he was the right move. Joe Douglas hired the first real head coach we have seen here in a long time.

So your plan, well thanks for submitting it, but that isn't what the Jets are going to do.  They finally have the answer in-house already.

[Maxman]

52 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

The problem is not JD. The problem is above JD and the lack of football acumen at an extra layer above the GM. I have been saying this for years.

The Browns have been mentioned in this thread and the Browns realized that, and id it the right way. They hired a CSO (Chief Strategy Officer) in John DePodesta. DePodesta is an analytics guy and an organizational builder. 

My continued rant on this franchise is that it is tooooo marketing heavy, and sensitive to fan criticism, and knee jerks to the wind. They need someone with a plan at a high level, and feed information to the GLM and build around the position.

It is not JDs fault. Provide him the tools, analytics and commitment for building a winning ORGANIZATION. 

This is a great post.

[Scott Dierking]

30 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Why are you in a thread calling for Joe Douglas' firing when clearly you support him?  Go create a happy thread about extending Joe Douglas and you can carry on your ridiculous love affair over there.

I am going to start to call you "Dreamer":

1.  You defend an indefensible position.

2.  You attack other posters instead of admitting every take and every idea you've ever had for any Jets GM, HC, or QB was dead wrong.

3.  Not even a border fence can keep you out of threads that you find disagreeable.

Nice job, Dreamer.

SAR I

I get it now. You do not understand how message board work. It appears your take is to have your “look at me” moments, and to just reverberate those. Carry on.

[Matt39]

10 minutes ago, Maxman said:

This is a great post.

It’s also the sad reality. It’s nearly impossible to win with poor ownership.

[kevinc855]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

The problem is not JD. The problem is above JD and the lack of football acumen at an extra layer above the GM. I have been saying this for years.

The Browns have been mentioned in this thread and the Browns realized that, and id it the right way. They hired a CSO (Chief Strategy Officer) in John DePodesta. DePodesta is an analytics guy and an organizational builder. 

My continued rant on this franchise is that it is tooooo marketing heavy, and sensitive to fan criticism, and knee jerks to the wind. They need someone with a plan at a high level, and feed information to the GLM and build around the position.

It is not JDs fault. Provide him the tools, analytics and commitment for building a winning ORGANIZATION. 

Whoa whoa whoaaaaaaaaaaaaa waitttt

The GM's responsibility is not to build the team? Did you say this when Mac was here? 

I know people love to get on the Browns nuts on here and I'm not sure why. They are 3-2 in 3rd place in their division. Are they better then us? 100 percent. 

Not sure the Jets spending more money on the alot they are paying the GM now to have a "GM boss" is smart. Just adding another layer and salary. 

[68JET11]

26 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Whoa whoa whoaaaaaaaaaaaaa waitttt

The GM's responsibility is not to build the team? Did you say this when Mac was here? 

I know people love to get on the Browns nuts on here and I'm not sure why. They are 3-2 in 3rd place in their division. Are they better then us? 100 percent. 

Not sure the Jets spending more money on the alot they are paying the GM now to have a "GM boss" is smart. Just adding another layer and salary. 

I think Scott's point was not that JD isn't in charge of building the team, it's he should also have a PRESIDENT of Football Operations as his boss that has a background in Football, and not some marketing guy who the Johnson's have in that roll.

[Scott Dierking]

35 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Whoa whoa whoaaaaaaaaaaaaa waitttt

The GM's responsibility is not to build the team? Did you say this when Mac was here? 

I know people love to get on the Browns nuts on here and I'm not sure why. They are 3-2 in 3rd place in their division. Are they better then us? 100 percent. 

Not sure the Jets spending more money on the alot they are paying the GM now to have a "GM boss" is smart. Just adding another layer and salary. 

I have been saying it for over 5 years. I authored a  thread here, and excuse as I forget the gentleman’s name “ xxxxxxx Please step Down”. Ironically, a couple  of months later, he did. But the Jets did not fill the position with that type of overseeing of operations. Someone that smooths the patch for the GM, provides them with tools and information that help them do their job, and serves as a buffer between ownership and the position. It is not a unique idea, and many successful organizations do this.

Are you really concerned about the Johnson’s spending a drop in the bucket more for this? Really? How short sighted.

[SAR I]

43 minutes ago, Maxman said:

So we need to fire someone before we can grade them. Great plan lol.

Not at all.

Use Joe Douglas as an example, he's had 2 drafts and 2 free agency periods and his first season was 2-14 and his second season is looking like 3-14 and his player hit rate is looking like 20%.

Based on this, firing him on the last day of the season when the record is 5-28 and moving on to the next GM who might do better is appropriate.

The Cleveland Browns were in a similar situation to the Jets.  They went through 3 GM's and 4 HC's in 6 years.  They were laughed at, they were called dysfunctional.  Look at them now.  Like the lottery, the more tickets you have the more likely you are to hit a winner.

SAR I

[kevinc855]

3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I have been saying it for over 5 years. I authored a  thread here, and excuse as I forget the gentleman’s name “ xxxxxxx Please step Down”. Ironically, a couple  of months later, he did. But the Jets did not fill the position with that type of overseeing of operations. Someone that smooths the patch for the GM, provides them with tools and information that help them do their job, and serves as a buffer between ownership and the position. It is not a unique idea, and many successful organizations do this.

Are you really concerned about the Johnson’s spending a drop in the bucket more for this? Really? How short sighted.

Well theres guys on here who celebrate cutting veterans to save a mil or 2 in cap space so anything is possible. 

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, kevinc855 said:

Well theres guys on here who celebrate cutting veterans to save a mil or 2 in cap space so anything is possible. 

I was more speaking to you. Do YOU agree that would be a positive?

When guys here “cheer” saving cap money, you can be sure it is ton spend it on a different player. Not to put in the Johnson’s pocket. Do you really need that explained?

[SAR I]

51 minutes ago, Maxman said:

The Jets are going to have a strong November and December. The will end the year with Zach Wilson clearly showing he was the right move. Joe Douglas hired the first real head coach we have seen here in a long time.

The Jets had a strong November and December in 2019 and it meant nothing, Sam Darnold was what we saw in his first 5 games, nothing changed.

The Jets have a long history of hiring new head coaches and all of them, even Adam Gase, got them to buy in, play hard, and win games.  To date, the promised Saleh Culture has not materialized and this team looks no different than the ones that preceded it.  You may still be optimistic, but I haven't seen the excitement in the players eyes, I haven't seen the passion on the field.  Herm after Groh brought that.  Mangini after Herm brought that.  Ryan after Mangini brought that.  Bowles after Ryan brought that.  They all had great first years, they all inherited a mess.  Gase's first year was derailed by injuries, still finished 6-2. 

What's Saleh's excuse?  The schedule is easy.  The roster is (supposedly) filled with Joe Douglas' premium young talent.  We have a fresh quarterback who wasn't damaged by prior regimes.  Either Douglas is terrible at picking players or Saleh is terrible at coaching them.  This isn't the plan any of us signed up for.

SAR I

[kevinc855]

5 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I was more speaking to you. Do YOU agree that would be a positive?

When guys here “cheer” saving cap money, you can be sure it is ton spend it on a different player. Not to put in the Johnson’s pocket. Do you really need that explained?

No. Who do you have in mind? 

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

The Jets had a strong November and December in 2019 and it meant nothing, Sam Darnold was what we saw in his first 5 games, nothing changed.

The Jets have a long history of hiring new head coaches and all of them, even Adam Gase, got them to buy in, play hard, and win games.  To date, the promised Saleh Culture has not materialized and this team looks no different than the ones that preceded it.  You may still be optimistic, but I haven't seen the excitement in the players eyes, I haven't seen the passion on the field.  Herm after Groh brought that.  Mangini after Herm brought that.  Ryan after Mangini brought that.  Bowles after Ryan brought that.  They all had great first years, they all inherited a mess.  Gase's first year was derailed by injuries, still finished 6-2. 

What's Saleh's excuse?  The schedule is easy.  The roster is (supposedly) filled with Joe Douglas' premium young talent.  We have a fresh quarterback who wasn't damaged by prior regimes.  Either Douglas is terrible at picking players or Saleh is terrible at coaching them.  This isn't the plan any of us signed up for.

SAR I

Fans that say “seeing excitement in players eyes” “seeing passion on the field”, pretty much are the earmark for me that, “this particular fan just has never played organized sports, nor understands what takes place”. Carry on.  

[kevinc855]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The Jets had a strong November and December in 2019 and it meant nothing

This is so true. We scored 34 points 3 weeks in a row! Remember having fun in MetLife. Even traveled to DC to watch us stomp the WFT. 

The fan base could seem to care less. Now ITS ALL ABOUT NOV AND DEC. They say this is when the team will "gel"......we will see 

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, kevinc855 said:

No. Who do you have in mind? 

Since I have never interviewed any of these types, I have no idea. The fly in the ointment is the Johnsons hiring this position, granted.  But it would be a good start.

While I have your attention, Little Kevin, why don’t you answer the question I posed to you earlier in this thread—Who were the “foundation” players that JD inherited on this roster. I will wait.