Zach Wilson arm strength

[T0mShane]

27 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Where do you guys come up with this stuff? The last recorded 40 time Wilson had, he ran a 4.84. You really believe he has improved .34?

Still, a 4.84/40 is pretty good for a guy who’s 6’4” and runs a 4.3/40. Watch the tape.

[Savage69]

35 minutes ago, JiF said:

.  He was a nobody, 99% of this board had no idea who he was till this season and suddenly he's actually really the QB1?  lmfao  It's like nobody pays attention to the NFL..

Wild to me that people cant see past that but you just have to hope the Jets do. 

Like 6'2 214 pound Kurt Warner?? No one knows how any college QB will do in the Pro's, well except for Bit of course..

[JohnnyLV]

45 minutes ago, JiF said:

It wasnt really worth it but the heel clicks is essentially, is doing exactly what he said he didnt....using extra steps and having to use extra motion to get the ball out, which probably has a lot to do with his windup that they dont seem to be working out of him, the ball is below his waist till he lets it go.  Double heel clicks with the ball below your waist to a extend straight leg...wow, it's danger, big time.  You can get away with it in clean pockets playing nobodies, you might be murdered at the next level, especially when we're talking about someone who routinely ignores the easy play for the big one.  And for someone with an injury history, boy oh boy is he a scary scary player to take #2 overall.  And like @bitonti said, there is no signature win, big game comp with Zach Wilson...no senior bowl to spend time with him.  He was a nobody, 99% of this board had no idea who he was till this season and suddenly he's actually really the QB1?  lmfao  It's like nobody pays attention to the NFL....is there an example of player with a resume like him that is a predraft riser succeeding?  The answer is no...but lets ignore that and all the sloppy mechanics because threw a fast ball side arm once and it looked like Pat Mahomes.

Wild to me that people cant see past that but you just have to hope the Jets do. 

Watch some of the QB school videos, he has impeccable footwork but you can rail against him all you want. Whatever.

[Guilhermezmc]

45 minutes ago, JiF said:

It wasnt really worth it but the heel clicks is essentially, is doing exactly what he said he didnt....using extra steps and having to use extra motion to get the ball out, which probably has a lot to do with his windup that they dont seem to be working out of him, the ball is below his waist till he lets it go.  Double heel clicks with the ball below your waist to a extend straight leg...wow, it's danger, big time.  You can get away with it in clean pockets playing nobodies, you might be murdered at the next level, especially when we're talking about someone who routinely ignores the easy play for the big one.  And for someone with an injury history, boy oh boy is he a scary scary player to take #2 overall.  And like @bitonti said, there is no signature win, big game comp with Zach Wilson...no senior bowl to spend time with him.  He was a nobody, 99% of this board had no idea who he was till this season and suddenly he's actually really the QB1?  lmfao  It's like nobody pays attention to the NFL....is there an example of player with a resume like him that is a predraft riser succeeding?  The answer is no...but lets ignore that and all the sloppy mechanics because threw a fast ball side arm once and it looked like Pat Mahomes.

Wild to me that people cant see past that but you just have to hope the Jets do. 

You know who has good mechanics? Sam Darnold, he just puts a clinic on tape

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, TheMo said:

I can see the excuses already. No one held his hand and gave him a line where he had 4 seconds to scan the field every play. Therefore he could have been the next mahomes but the team that drafted him ruined him. 

Few people like to admit when they backed the wrong horse.  It's why we rarely see people here who were all-in on Sanchez, Geno AND Darnold still acting like they've never been wrong about a QB, and expecting us to just agree today when they similarly back Wilson.

To be clear, I have no problem whatsoever with hope and faith, wishing deeply that a guy works out.  Especially once that guy is picked by our Jets.  We're fans of a horrible, horribly run franchise, hope and faith is often all we've got.

What annoys me is being consistently wrong in prediction/projection, and still pretending you're Mel Kiper or the like.  When the same guys (not naming names) who argued with me about Sanchez being awesome, Geno being potentially great, Hackenberg just needing an opportunity because he was an amazing prospect, Watson being too much a reach that year because he's just a college QB and we should wait for Darnold, who was generational, now tells me Wilson is the best prospect in the draft......I just have to laugh a little.  

[thebuzzardman]

If Taylor Swift was a man, I'm pretty sure she'd look like Zach Wilson. 

[adobolo2]

52 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

What I love about this - Particularly the anti Wilson crowd

Y'all have to go back to his Sophomore year to find bad games - or even mostly bad plays.  The irrational dislike for this kid is just strange.  

Well to be fair it is nearly 2 years since he played anyone of note and I can sympathize that he was coming off shoulder surgery before the season but you have to take the whole body of work to full analysis wilson.

People like to criticize his performance against costal carolina but again the excuse could he made that he only had a week to prepare as the game was scheduled late in the season but to counter that Costal Carolinas defence have only one player in the top PFF's 300 draft players and he's like 293 ranked.

You have to understand why people are a bit weary of a guy who had dramatic improvements but there is no real opposition for the average fan to judge him against.

It's like saying Darnold won 7 games in 2019 on a terrible roster but then again his 7 wins were against bad teams.

[Savage69]

2 minutes ago, adobolo2 said:

 

You have to understand why people are a bit weary of a guy who had dramatic improvements but there is no real opposition for the average fan to judge him against.

It's like saying Darnold won 7 games in 2019 on a terrible roster but then again his 7 wins were against bad teams.

And the 2 games he won in 2020 were against playoff teams. Watson didn't even beat a team with a winning record.. And it means nothing...

[FidelioJet]

17 minutes ago, adobolo2 said:

Well to be fair it is nearly 2 years since he played anyone of note and I can sympathize that he was coming off shoulder surgery before the season but you have to take the whole body of work to full analysis wilson.

People like to criticize his performance against costal carolina but again the excuse could he made that he only had a week to prepare as the game was scheduled late in the season but to counter that Costal Carolinas defence have only one player in the top PFF's 300 draft players and he's like 293 ranked.

You have to understand why people are a bit weary of a guy who had dramatic improvements but there is no real opposition for the average fan to judge him against.

It's like saying Darnold won 7 games in 2019 on a terrible roster but then again his 7 wins were against bad teams.

I agree, that his level of competition is one of two legitimate concerns I see ...

I personally don't really worry about the level of competition because I think ultimately it's about skill-set.   And I'm defiantly not going to hold it against him for getting better year over year.  That's one of the worst lines of thinking I can find. He's bad because he got better.

If I were voting for him for the Heisman trophy or putting him in CF HOF - the talent level he played absolutely should be a major part of the discussion.   If you're asking me who was the better college QB and you want to say it was Fields - I won't argue with you.

But I'm not drafting his college career.   I'm drafting a player, a skill-set - I'm projecting how he'll be as an NFL QB.

I'll even go further..

If you want to say Wilson's transition to the NFL might be a little bit longer than Fields because the speed of the game Fields played was a bit faster - so he'll be closer to the speed of the NFL - sure, I won't argue.  

In fact, I've stated many times here, I think Fields is likely to have a better rookie year.  I think his running ability allows for more success for young QB's.  I like Fields, I just like The ZW better.

[TheMo]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree, that his level of competition is one of two legitimate concerns I see ...

I personally don't really worry about the level of competition because I think ultimately it's about skill-set.   And I'm defiantly not going to hold it against him for getting better year over year.  That's one of the worst lines of thinking I can find. He's bad because he got better.

If I were voting for him for the Heisman trophy or putting him in CF HOF - the talent level he played absolutely should be a major part of the discussion.   If you're asking me who was the better college QB and you want to say it was Fields - I won't argue with you.

But I'm not drafting his college career.   I'm drafting a player, a skill-set - I'm projecting how he'll be as an NFL QB.

I'll even go further..

If you want to say Wilson's transition to the NFL might be a little bit longer than Fields because the speed of the game Fields played was a bit faster - so he'll be closer to the speed of the NFL - sure, I won't argue.  

In fact, I've stated many times here, I think Fields is likely to have a better rookie year.  I think his running ability allows for more success for young QB's.  I like Fields, I just like The ZW better.

My concern would be that the big jump occurred with the decrease in competition. Not his fault, but something to think about.  Again I’d have no problem taking a chance on him if Fields was off the board.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

The answer is no...but lets ignore that and all the sloppy mechanics because threw a fast ball side arm once and it looked like Pat Mahomes.

Mahomes had horrible mechanics coming out of school.

Hes still "unconventional" 

How'd that work out?

[adobolo2]

4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree, that his level of competition is one of two legitimate concerns I see ...

I personally don't really worry about the level of competition because I think ultimately it's about skill-set.   And I'm defiantly not going to hold it against him for getting better year over year.  That's one of the worst lines of thinking I can find. He's bad because he got better.

If I were voting for him for the Heisman trophy or putting him in CF HOF - the talent level he played absolutely should be a major part of the discussion.   If you're asking me who was the better college QB and you want to say it was Fields - I won't argue with you.

But I'm not drafting his college career.   I'm drafting a player, a skill-set - I'm projecting how he'll be as an NFL QB.

I'll even go further..

If you want to say Wilson's transition to the NFL might be a little bit longer than Fields because the speed of the game Fields played was a bit faster - so he'll be closer to the speed of the NFL - sure, I won't argue.  

In fact, I've stated many times here, I think Fields is likely to have a better rookie year.  I think his running ability allows for more success for young QB's.  I like Fields, I just like The ZW better.

What's your second concern if level of competition is one of them?

I'm not anti wilson just finding it harder to put him on a pedestal like others have. 

[JustInFudge]

 

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Watch some of the QB school videos, he has impeccable footwork but you can rail against him all you want. Whatever.

Oh I've watched and the honest ones, who are respectable and arent just blow hards, will show you very clearly how his footwork and mechanics are extremely sloppy.  Footwork is all jacked up, often miss set very similar to Sam but depends on the arm to bail him out.  The double heel clicks, the wicked leg extension.  It's not good at all, actually.  Arent you the one that shared the video footage of him doing roll outs, in shorts, no defenders with the double heel clicks?  You cant be a crow hopper in the NFL.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Guilhermezmc said:

You know who has good mechanics? Sam Darnold, he just puts a clinic on tape

lol I assume this sarcasm?  Sam is a great example if ignoring the mechanics because off platform yadayadayada.

[chirorob]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Few people like to admit when they backed the wrong horse.  It's why we rarely see people here who were all-in on Sanchez, Geno AND Darnold still acting like they've never been wrong about a QB, and expecting us to just agree today when they similarly back Wilson.

To be clear, I have no problem whatsoever with hope and faith, wishing deeply that a guy works out.  Especially once that guy is picked by our Jets.  We're fans of a horrible, horribly run franchise, hope and faith is often all we've got.

What annoys me is being consistently wrong in prediction/projection, and still pretending you're Mel Kiper or the like.  When the same guys (not naming names) who argued with me about Sanchez being awesome, Geno being potentially great, Hackenberg just needing an opportunity because he was an amazing prospect, Watson being too much a reach that year because he's just a college QB and we should wait for Darnold, who was generational, now tells me Wilson is the best prospect in the draft......I just have to laugh a little.  

I thought Sanchez was too raw, thought Geno was fine for a 2nd rounder, and was not on board with Darnold.  I did then root for all of those guys when they were on the team.

Of course, I wanted Rosen.....

[Skeptable]

Zach Wilson = Baker Mayfield 

Just saying... Baker was the most accurate QB to come out of college. 

[FidelioJet]

36 minutes ago, adobolo2 said:

What's your second concern if level of competition is one of them?

I'm not anti wilson just finding it harder to put him on a pedestal like others have. 

His frame is definitely on the small side.  He seems to have put on some weight but there’s concern there for sure.  

There is an irrational dislike of him here.  I have ideas as to what they might be but I’ll keep those to myself.     

[FidelioJet]

Just now, Skeptable said:

Zach Wilson = Baker Mayfield 

Just saying... Baker was the most accurate QB to come out of college. 

Zach Wilson is two inches taller, arm is substantially stronger, .2 faster in the 40 and an overall better athlete. 

Baker Mayfield’s coming off an 11 win season and a playoff win and overall very good year - Which is as many playoff wins as everyone’s hero around here - Watson.  
I’ll take a more athletic, faster, taller - cannon armed version of Mayfield and be super excited about it.  

[JustInFudge]

57 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Mahomes had horrible mechanics coming out of school.

Hes still "unconventional" 

How'd that work out?

Meh, different mechanical issues. Mahomes didnt have those same glaring scary issues I've point out but I digress, the bigger part of your post is that this idea is exactly the point I've been trying to make with Wilson.  Mahomes is 1 in a million.  There isnt another Pat Mahomes.  He's the best in the world and trying to force the recreation is fools gold....and Zach Wilson sure as **** is not it.  He doesnt posses half the physical attributes as Mahomes and that's the whole point, you cant fall in love what works for Mahomes and because he's the greatest, you try to force the issue that Wilson is the same thing because peep this side arm bullet he threw vs. your next Accountant.  Just 2 totally different prospects from physical, mental, resume standpoint.  

What's ironic about this particular post is that the knock on Mahomes coming out is that he didnt have a repeatable approach.  He was all over the place, a play extender, looking for the big play and the ball would come out in all different ways.  Now suddenly this is what you're looking for in a QB?  

 

[Grandy]

Daily reminder that level of competition has little to no bearing on pro success. Especially with the numbers he put up.

Daily reminder that tribalism and bias leads to poorer analysis whether it be negative or positive.

[Jet Nut]

52 minutes ago, JiF said:

Meh, different mechanical issues. Mahomes didnt have those same glaring scary issues I've point out but I digress, the bigger part of your post is that this idea is exactly the point I've been trying to make with Wilson.  Mahomes is 1 in a million.  There isnt another Pat Mahomes.  He's the best in the world and trying to force the recreation is fools gold....and Zach Wilson sure as **** is not it.  He doesnt posses half the physical attributes as Mahomes and that's the whole point, you cant fall in love what works for Mahomes and because he's the greatest, you try to force the issue that Wilson is the same thing because peep this side arm bullet he threw vs. your next Accountant.  Just 2 totally different prospects from physical, mental, resume standpoint.  

What's ironic about this particular post is that the knock on Mahomes coming out is that he didnt have a repeatable approach.  He was all over the place, a play extender, looking for the big play and the ball would come out in all different ways.  Now suddenly this is what you're looking for in a QB?  

 

You have no idea what you’re talking about if you think Mahomes  didn’t have mechanic issues and questions coming out of school

Try Googling Mahomes mechanics for a refesher, there are plenty of articles 

The point is don’t continue to think they are a true forecast of a NFL career or that we can make the connections you’re trying to make with Wilson.  He has a strong arm.  Quick release.  Spins the ball and delivers it to his targets.    I see his results last season and am not seeing a correlation of mechanics to what he’s put on tape.  Any questions to his success in the NFL deal with the step up from BYU to the NFL.  Similar, to a lesser degree to the questions about Mahomes to the NFL

 

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, maury77 said:

Where do you guys come up with this stuff? The last recorded 40 time Wilson had, he ran a 4.84. You really believe he has improved .34?

That 4.84 was from High School.  

So you think it’s more likely he’s lying?  

That he’s making up that he’s running around 4.6?

That he didn’t actually get faster, more explosive, since he was 17 years old? It’s a .24 improvement, not .34.  

My guess is that’s pretty standard from High School Senior to College junior.

I’m assuming you also think he’s lying about his height?

Just curious if you think Justin Fields is telling the truth about his height and 40 time?  

note: it seems losing .2 or more from high school is by no means out of the ordinary   Some do, some don’t - but to say it’s absurd is patently false   He’s almost certainly telling the truth  he plays very fast  you can see it  

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/2020-NFL-Draft-top-players-how-they-tested-NFL-Combine-high-school-144839469/#144839469_1

[JustInFudge]

12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You have no idea what you’re talking about if you think Mahomes  didn’t have mechanic issues and questions coming out of school

Try Googling Mahomes mechanics for a refesher

The point is don’t continue to think they are a true forecast of a NFL career or that we can make the connections you’re trying to make with Wilson.  He has a strong arm.  Quick release.  Spins the ball and delivers to his targets.    I see his results last season and am not seeing a correlation of mechanics to what he’s put on tape

 

omg, dude.  lol  Here we go again.  sigh.  I ❤️ yer f'ing guts out man

When I said, "meh, different mechanical issues" - the word different implies admission that Mahomes had mechanical issues.  Otherwise, I would have said, "meh, Mahomes did not have mechanical issues".  Then later in my post when I specifically called out the issues that Mahomes had in college which made him a challenging prospect to dissect, you should have been able to discern that, I was agreeing with you, Mahomes had mechanical issues.  They were just, different. 

I disagree that my concerns with his mechanics dont matter, kind of the whole point of sharing but anywho there are more in-depth conversations going on regarding this topic and I dont feel like repeating myself but in short; you didnt see a correlation on tape because he played nobodies, playing from some of the cleanest pockets I've ever seen.  When game speed is 10x as fast and he wont be eating sandwiches in the pocket, those mechanics are frightening for a small framed mediocre athlete with an injury history. 

 

[Skeptable]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Zach Wilson is two inches taller, arm is substantially stronger, .2 faster in the 40 and an overall better athlete. 

Baker Mayfield’s coming off an 11 win season and a playoff win and overall very good year - Which is as many playoff wins as everyone’s hero around here - Watson.  
I’ll take a more athletic, faster, taller - cannon armed version of Mayfield and be super excited about it.  

You act like I said something negative... all I said is Zach Wilson is Baker Mayfield... You say he is better... He played at BYU against lesser competition. Your version of 'the grass is always greener'

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

You act like I said something negative... all I said is Zach Wilson is Baker Mayfield... You say he is better... He played at BYU against lesser competition. Your version of 'the grass is always greener'

Sorry, didn’t mean for it to come across negative. 

You pointed to their accuracy traits being similar, I was just adding to why if the accuracy traits are consistent then there are other reasons to believe The ZW is a superior player to him.  Maybe I misunderstood your original post, I thought you were referencing their accuracy claims coming out of college.

6 more weeks of “lesser competition”.  Ugh.  
I really do hope once he’s drafted that will stop.  It doesn’t matter now. And will matter even less once he’s in the NFL. 

[fullblast]

4 hours ago, JiF said:

It wasnt really worth it but the heel clicks is essentially, is doing exactly what he said he didnt....using extra steps and having to use extra motion to get the ball out, which probably has a lot to do with his windup that they dont seem to be working out of him, the ball is below his waist till he lets it go.  Double heel clicks with the ball below your waist to a extend straight leg...wow, it's danger, big time.  You can get away with it in clean pockets playing nobodies, you might be murdered at the next level, especially when we're talking about someone who routinely ignores the easy play for the big one.  And for someone with an injury history, boy oh boy is he a scary scary player to take #2 overall.  And like @bitonti said, there is no signature win, big game comp with Zach Wilson...no senior bowl to spend time with him.  He was a nobody, 99% of this board had no idea who he was till this season and suddenly he's actually really the QB1?  lmfao  It's like nobody pays attention to the NFL....is there an example of player with a resume like him that is a predraft riser succeeding?  The answer is no...but lets ignore that and all the sloppy mechanics because threw a fast ball side arm once and it looked like Pat Mahomes.

Wild to me that people cant see past that but you just have to hope the Jets do. 

Does the heel click show up consistently on his tape? Can't say I've watched it closely enough to call it out. I haven't seen any other analysts mention this.

[thebuzzardman]

Todays theme:

[Skeptable]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Sorry, didn’t mean for it to come across negative. 

You pointed to their accuracy traits being similar, I was just adding to why if the accuracy traits are consistent then there are other reasons to believe The ZW is a superior player to him.  Maybe I misunderstood your original post, I thought you were referencing their accuracy claims coming out of college.

6 more weeks of “lesser competition”.  Ugh.  
I really do hope once he’s drafted that will stop.  It doesn’t matter now. And will matter even less once he’s in the NFL. 

I think the hype has gotten out of control on Wilson.  I think he could be good.. but there is no lock. You are obviously enamored with him. I just see a lot of similarities to Mayfield... beyond arm strength (slightly) and height (2") they are nearly identical even up to their attitude.. You say more athletic but I think people forget how Mayfield played in college. Can Zach Wilson or Mayfield be franchise QBs, sure... But they are not once in a lifetime type QBs..

[JustInFudge]

13 minutes ago, fullblast said:

Does the heel click show up consistently on his tape? Can't say I've watched it closely enough to call it out. I haven't seen any other analysts mention this.

You see both with him, nice flawless stuff and then some full connector clicks, double clicks and half clicks.  lol  There a few guys who've pointed it out.  You watch so many you forget everyone but I know JT O'Sullivan points it out but also shows the good too...so that might be a good watch if you're looking for it.

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, thebuzzardman said:

Todays theme:

Sounds funny but timing is everything as a passer in the NFL.  If he's clicking before he fires, could be the difference between a completion and a pick six.  

[Jet Nut]

31 minutes ago, JiF said:

omg, dude.  lol  Here we go again.  sigh.  I ❤️ yer f'ing guts out man

When I said, "meh, different mechanical issues" - the word different implies admission that Mahomes had mechanical issues.  Otherwise, I would have said, "meh, Mahomes did not have mechanical issues".  Then later in my post when I specifically called out the issues that Mahomes had in college which made him a challenging prospect to dissect, you should have been able to discern that, I was agreeing with you, Mahomes had mechanical issues.  They were just, different. 

I disagree that my concerns with his mechanics dont matter, kind of the whole point of sharing but anywho there are more in-depth conversations going on regarding this topic and I dont feel like repeating myself but in short; you didnt see a correlation on tape because he played nobodies, playing from some of the cleanest pockets I've ever seen.  When game speed is 10x as fast and he wont be eating sandwiches in the pocket, those mechanics are frightening for a small framed mediocre athlete with an injury history. 

 

Why the F cant you just agree with what I said, very simply, Mahomes had/has mechanical issues and move on.  It was a simple comment, dead right that youre just going to on and on about.  

OMG, Dude.?

[Bruce Harper]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

Sounds funny but timing is everything as a passer in the NFL.  If he's clicking before he fires, could be the difference between a completion and a pick six.  

He only threw 3 picks last year and none in the red zone.  If that is a problem with the clicking, it hasn't shown up yet.

[FidelioJet]

22 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

I think the hype has gotten out of control on Wilson.  I think he could be good.. but there is no lock. You are obviously enamored with him. I just see a lot of similarities to Mayfield... beyond arm strength (slightly) and height (2") they are nearly identical even up to their attitude.. You say more athletic but I think people forget how Mayfield played in college. Can Zach Wilson or Mayfield be franchise QBs, sure... But they are not once in a lifetime type QBs..

Who’s a once in lifetime QB?

Who, coming out of college, did you think was once in lifetime?

[JustInFudge]

18 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Why the F cant you just agree with what I said, very simply, Mahomes had/has mechanical issues and move on.  It was a simple comment, dead right that youre just going to on and on about.  

OMG, Dude.?

Well, once again, I was having a conversation with someone and you inserted yourself into the conversation.  And when you responded to my response to said poster, you ended your post with a question,.  So I assumed you wanted an answer and you were engaging in the conversation.  Otherwise, you were just trying to be a smart ass and show me up but I know that's not like you so I gave you a more detailed explanation since again, you asked me a question.  Typically when people ask questions they're looking to have a conversation and not just a nut tap and move on. 

 

[Savage69]

19 minutes ago, JiF said:

Sounds funny but timing is everything as a passer in the NFL.  If he's clicking before he fires, could be the difference between a completion and a pick six.  

Wouldn't that be a click six??