Brian Hoyer talking with Jets Today

[Tranquilo]

Just now, Warfish said:

I completely agree.

In my view, all three QB spots on a roster should be filled with the best possible Quarterbacks.

Not mentors.  Not Coaches.  Not guys to pat rookies on the back and tell them they're special.  Not woobies for Head Coaches to play because they don't like playing younger QB's.

If a Veteran is that guy, because he's younger, and talented, with upside, etc., and the potential to win games if called upon, fine, no objection.

But all of 3 of them should be chosen because they can play or have the potential to play the #1 QB spot.  Not for any other touchy-feely mentor coach-in-pads reason.

In my view, rookie QB's are best served by GREAT Coaches, and aggressive competitors chasing at their heels.  Fear and competition are amazing motivators.

How would you be able to afford 3 of THE BEST POSSIBLE QUARTERBACKS on a roster while building a good team?

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

An actual playing QB can help him interpret the play book

That is a Coaches job.

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

discuss on the field what they are seeing on the field.

Coaches job.

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Discuss their experiences of adapting to the NFL.

Hire him a Councilor if he needs this.

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Sometimes you can learn more from a peer than you can your boss.

Not if your Boss (or Coach) is any good at his job.

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

When I brought new employees, I assigned them a "buddy" to guide them through, rather than their boss.

Your office isn't the NFL.  

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Warfish said:

That is a Coaches job.

Coaches job.

Hire him a Councilor if he needs this.

Not if your Boss (or Coach) is any good at his job.

Your office isn't the NFL.  

Majority of coaches in the NFL never played the QB position. They could not tell you the thought processes of deconstructing a play, because they have never experienced it. HUGE difference.

 

[jetblue95]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I completely agree.

In my view, all three QB spots on a roster should be filled with the best possible Quarterbacks.

Not mentors.  Not Coaches.  Not guys to pat rookies on the back and tell them they're special.  Not woobies for Head Coaches to play because they don't like playing younger QB's.

If a Veteran is that guy, because he's younger, and talented, with upside, etc., and the potential to win games if called upon, fine, no objection.

But all of 3 of them should be chosen because they can play or have the potential to play the #1 QB spot.  Not for any other touchy-feely mentor coach-in-pads reason.

In my view, rookie QB's are best served by GREAT Coaches, and aggressive competitors chasing at their heels.  Fear and competition are amazing motivators.

 

so your suggestion for the jets 3 QBs are???

[Warfish]

Just now, Tranquilo said:

How would you be able to afford 3 of THE BEST POSSIBLE QUARTERBACKS on a roster while building a good team?

Is that a serious question?  I don't think you understand what I'm saying tbqh.

I'm not saying we need 3x $40 million QB's.  

I'm saying the backup should be there primarily because we think he can play and win games, if called upon or if the rookie gets hurt.  Not to hold the rookies cock for him.

[Tranquilo]

Just now, Warfish said:

Is that a serious question?  I don't think you understand what I'm saying tbqh.

I'm not saying we need 3x $40 million QB's.  

I'm saying the backup should be there primarily because we think he can play and win games, if called upon or if the rookie gets hurt.  Not to hold the rookies cock for him.

What evidence do you have that that's necessary? Check out my other posts about recent QBs and what their teams are doing.

If our team were a lot better, I'd agree with you. But we are way early in the rebuilding stage. We can't afford a good QB behind our rookie QB.

[GreenFish]

35 minutes ago, Warfish said:

That is a Coaches job.

Coaches job.

Hire him a Councilor if he needs this.

Not if your Boss (or Coach) is any good at his job.

Your office isn't the NFL.  

To add on the helping him transition to the NFL. Zach Wilson is in communications with Steve Young. Joe Douglas has seen 3 young QBs transition to the NFL and will be helping Wilson. Wilson is working with former QB John Beck.

He already has two former BYU QB counselors. One that happens to be in the HoF.

[Snell41]

I support Joe Douglas and believe he’s done a pretty good job so far. I also don’t kill him for the Morgan pick last year though I can definitely see the other side of the argument stating it was a bad pick given all our needs. Having said that I do believe Douglas needs to be accountable for the pick, if he felt a backup QB was worth a 4th rounder on such a talent deprived team then he needs to have the balls to roll with him as the backup.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[GreenFish]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Nothing is nearly as important as getting Wilson ready to play well in the NFL.

And I was advocating for a Hoyer over the expensive alternative.  A couple of mil to help our QB is well worth it

If it’s a Hoyer type and we think he can start while Wilson gets up to speed, I have no issues. I’m ok with that.

My issue is more with those who are suggesting Alex Smith or trading a 4th for a backup QB (we already spent a 4th on Morgan).

By all accounts, Sam Darnold had a great mentor in McCown. It didn’t workout. Why? Because the team around him sucked.

$2M for Hoyer cool. $10M for Alex Smith, no. Use that money to help build the team around Zach.

Once we have a playoff caliber roster, have at it with a more expensive backup QB.

[Philc1]

19 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Hoyer is a patriot loyalist, he will be phoning bellichick in the middle of the night with reports.  (Only half kidding)

Our first and second string QBs both patriots fans

[Philc1]

20 hours ago, munchmemory said:

Compared to Hoyer?  No friggin' doubt I'd take Minshew.  Just for the chance that he recaptures the "magic" he had in 2019: 21 TDs/6 INTs in 14 games.   Even as bad as he played last season, Minshew had 16 TDs/5 INTs in 9 games.  

Minshew is a young Joe Montana compared to Hoyer

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, jetblue95 said:

 

 

ok, who do you suggest?

and i don't mean morgan, who will also be on the roster (assuming he beats out white)

teams need 3 QBs on a roster.  the jets will assumedly have wilson and morgan.  who is the 3rd?

hoyer is pretty mediocre.  not expecting him to come in and lead the team to the playoffs.  but i guess you know more than belichick, who put this "putrid" QB on his roster 6 times, including last year after brady left.

Well if we had an actual roster Alex Smith would probably sign here but we don’t.  So we’re stuck with a worse Ryan Fitzpatrick 

[Dunnie]

3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Well if we had an actual roster Alex Smith would probably sign here but we don’t.  So we’re stuck with a worse Ryan Fitzpatrick 

To be honest i could give a two sh*ts who the vet QB is. As long as he doesn't impede Zachary's growth ... could be anyone. It doesn't matter at all to me.  Not even remotely.

[jetblue95]

8 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Well if we had an actual roster Alex Smith would probably sign here but we don’t.  So we’re stuck with a worse Ryan Fitzpatrick 

 

again, i ask you to answer the question.  who do you suggest we sign?

and you are correct.  alex smith likely isn't signing here, in part because he wants to start and given the jets are almost certainly drafting a QB @ 2, this isn't a situation he is likely interested in.

so tell me who you want as the jets QBs, if we assume wilson and morgan are 2 of the QBs.

[Tranquilo]

10 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Well if we had an actual roster Alex Smith would probably sign here but we don’t.  So we’re stuck with a worse Ryan Fitzpatrick 

How do you plan to pay Alex Smith 10 million while also having enough to sign a few CBs, LBs, and the rookies?

[IndianaJet]

I can't believe we let Hoyer out of the building without a contract!  Fire JD!!!!!

Did we not get him some cupcakes?

 

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Majority of coaches in the NFL never played the QB position. They could not tell you the thought processes of deconstructing a play, because they have never experienced it. HUGE difference.

So you're saying the majority of NFL QB Coaches are unqualified to Coach NFL QB's?  Seems like you're identifying a different problem.

2 hours ago, jetblue95 said:

so your suggestion for the jets 3 QBs are???

Draft Pick (Presume Wilson), Young FA Who Still Has Upside (debate as you like as to who that is), Morgan

Not Hoyer.  Not McCown.  Not Fitzpatrick at this point.  Nobody like that, career-long losers who suddenly are considered wise experienced mentors because they stuck around long enough.

It's funny, some are arguing career loser QB are great mentors because "you don't have to have won to teach", and others are decrying NFL QB Coaches are unable to teach because they "never played QB".  

Here is an idea, hire Brees to be the QB Coach then.  He won AND his played AND he knows QB and a short/undersized guy.  

And there is no salary cap on paying Coaches.  And we won;t have to have Brees be the #2 if Wilson goes down (even if 10,000% better than Hoyer, lol).

1 hour ago, GreenFish said:

To add on the helping him transition to the NFL. Zach Wilson is in communications with Steve Young. Joe Douglas has seen 3 young QBs transition to the NFL and will be helping Wilson. Wilson is working with former QB John Beck.

He already has two former BYU QB counselors. One that happens to be in the HoF.

Maybe we should hire Steve Young to Coach him, lol.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

17 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So you're saying the majority of NFL QB Coaches are unqualified to Coach NFL QB's?  Seems like you're identifying a different problem.

Draft Pick (Presume Wilson), Young FA Who Still Has Upside (debate as you like as to who that is), Morgan

Not Hoyer.  Not McCown.  Not Fitzpatrick at this point.  Nobody like that, career-long losers who suddenly are considered wise experienced mentors because they stuck around long enough.

It's funny, some are arguing career loser QB are great mentors because "you don't have to have won to teach", and others are decrying NFL QB Coaches are unable to teach because they "never played QB".  

Here is an idea, hire Brees to be the QB Coach then.  He won AND his played AND he knows QB and a short/undersized guy.  

And there is no salary cap on paying Coaches.  And we won;t have to have Brees be the #2 if Wilson goes down (even if 10,000% better than Hoyer, lol).

Maybe we should hire Steve Young to Coach him, lol.

There is no Young FA who still has upside. Maybe Nick Mullens? But he's rehabbing from elbow surgery. What's available right now is the Blaine Gabberts of the world. 

There's no harm in pairing a guy like Hoyer with your rookie QB. 

[jetblue95]

40 minutes ago, Warfish said:

 

Draft Pick (Presume Wilson), Young FA Who Still Has Upside (debate as you like as to who that is), Morgan

Not Hoyer.  Not McCown.  Not Fitzpatrick at this point.  Nobody like that, career-long losers who suddenly are considered wise experienced mentors because they stuck around long enough.

 

can you name any young FA QBs who still have upside?  chances are if they are young and have upside, they aren't FAs. 

i'd be fine with nick mullens (26 y.o.), but he had elbow surgery in the off-season, which may explain why no one has signed him.  do you mean a 28 y.o. brett hundley or the 29 y.o. blake bortles?

so again i ask YOU to tell us who YOU would sign, not to duck behind a "debate as you like" cop-out

[Warfish]

10 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

can you name any young FA QBs who still have upside?  chances are if they are young and have upside, they aren't FAs. 

i'd be fine with nick mullens (26 y.o.), but he had elbow surgery in the off-season, which may explain why no one has signed him.  do you mean a 28 y.o. brett hundley or the 29 y.o. blake bortles?

so again i ask YOU to tell us who YOU would sign, not to duck behind a "debate as you like" cop-out

Mullins (26) would be closer to my preferences than Hoyer (35), yes.

I don't know all of who is currently an unsigned free agent, do you have a link to that?  If so I could give you a name or two, sure.

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Mullins (26) would be closer to my preferences than Hoyer (35), yes.

I don't know all of who is currently an unsigned free agent, do you have a link to that?  If so I could give you a name or two, sure.

Top remaining free-agent quarterbacks in 2021

1) Nick Mullens, San Francisco 49ers
2) Brian Hoyer, New England Patriots
3) Alex Smith, Washington Football Team
4) Robert Griffin III, Baltimore Ravens
5) Blaine Gabbert, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
6) Matt Barkley, Buffalo Bills
7) Robert Griffin III, Baltimore Ravens
? Blake Bortles, Los Angeles Rams
9) Sean Mannion, Minnesota Vikings
10) A.J. McCarron, Houston Texans

[rayzor]

Depends what the Jets are looking for?   Someone with the best chance to win or someone that can teach Wilson the most.  I agree with others here that say we're not good enough to worry about winning with a backup right now and shouldn't allocate the funds in doing so.  I think Hoyer is the best option because of his knowledge of the AFC defenses and his knowledge of the new offense.

[Scott Dierking]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

So you're saying the majority of NFL QB Coaches are unqualified to Coach NFL QB's?  Seems like you're identifying a different problem.

 

I said nothing of the sort. What I said is that majority of QB coaches were not former NFL QB's. And, as such, they process the game a little different than those that have actually played the position. And that does not mean there is a detriment to either. 

What I actually was trying to convey is that a young QB having access to BOTH may be beneficial. A coach is only allowed so much access to a player. If you can room a veteran qb with a rookie, that rookie can glean knowledge and tips much more of his training camp. And also develop a confidant to converse in a players way.

War, don't feel the need to tell others what they are saying in your own words here all the time. Allow us to tell our own story, the same as others provide you. You have valuable feelings here, but please don't jam your interpretation of my thoughts to me in a way that is not even close to  what is represented. Have a great weekend.

[Warfish]

49 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

War, don't feel the need to tell others what they are saying in your own words here all the time. Allow us to tell our own story, the same as others provide you. You have valuable feelings here, but please don't jam your interpretation of my thoughts to me in a way that is not even close to  what is represented. Have a great weekend.

No one is telling you what you're saying or putting words in your mouth. 

This is a written media ffs, your post lives for all time, on it's own, for whatever it is.  I can never edit it, touch it or in any way modify what you said.  

When I restate a argument as I see it, it's an attempt to understand, to parse though what you are saying, i.e. my interpretation of the intent or meaning behind what was said AND it's ramifications when expanded upon more broadly, so that we can either A. reach agreement/consensus on an idea or B. continue to debate a disagreement in concept till we both fully understand one another's arguments.  MY post is MY thought on what YOU said.  It's never going to be anything more than that, and you bear no responsibility or ownership of how I interpret what you posted..  

What you just did, i.e. to clarify what on it's face could easily be read as "NFL QB Coaches can't on their own coach NFL QB's because many didn't play QB" with ADDITIONAL information, i.e. that you think an NFL QB may benefit from both an NFL Coach and an NFL QB of Some Kind (which could, in fact, be the same person if the Coach did play QB, I presume?) is exactly how such disagreements or misunderstandings (or poorly worded initial arguments that leave a ton of room for misunderstanding) get resolved.  

 

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

1) Nick Mullens, San Francisco 49ers
2) Brian Hoyer, New England Patriots
3) Alex Smith, Washington Football Team
4) Robert Griffin III, Baltimore Ravens
5) Blaine Gabbert, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
6) Matt Barkley, Buffalo Bills
7) Robert Griffin III, Baltimore Ravens
? Blake Bortles, Los Angeles Rams
9) Sean Mannion, Minnesota Vikings
10) A.J. McCarron, Houston Texans

Nick Mullins 

Robert Griffin III 

Blake Bortles 

ok by me. 

As others have mentioned Alex Smith 37 probably wants an opportunity to start. 

[Scott Dierking]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No one is telling you what you're saying or putting words in your mouth. 

This is a written media ffs, your post lives for all time, on it's own, for whatever it is.  I can never edit it, touch it or in any way modify what you said.  

When I restate a argument as I see it, it's an attempt to understand, to parse though what you are saying, i.e. my interpretation of the intent or meaning behind what was said AND it's ramifications when expanded upon more broadly, so that we can either A. reach agreement/consensus on an idea or B. continue to debate a disagreement in concept till we both fully understand one another's arguments.  MY post is MY thought on what YOU said.  It's never going to be anything more than that, and you bear no responsibility or ownership of how I interpret what you posted..  

What you just did, i.e. to clarify what on it's face could easily be read as "NFL QB Coaches can't on their own coach NFL QB's because many didn't play QB" with ADDITIONAL information, i.e. that you think an NFL QB may benefit from both an NFL Coach and an NFL QB of Some Kind (which could, in fact, be the same person if the Coach did play QB, I presume?) is exactly how such disagreements or misunderstandings (or poorly worded initial arguments that leave a ton of room for misunderstanding) get resolved.  

 

In that case, your reading comprehension needs help.  I was pretty clear, and you then twisted it into I presume your agenda. All good.

[jetblue95]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

 

I don't know all of who is currently an unsigned free agent, do you have a link to that?  If so I could give you a name or two, sure.

 

random google search:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/quarterback/

(pretty sure winston re-upped with the saints so not sure why he's listed as available above)

 

https://nfltraderumors.co/2021-nfl-free-agent-list/

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/top-2021-nfl-free-agents-each-position/

 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, jetblue95 said:

 

random google search:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/quarterback/

(pretty sure winston re-upped with the saints so not sure why he's listed as available above)

 

https://nfltraderumors.co/2021-nfl-free-agent-list/

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/top-2021-nfl-free-agents-each-position/

 

Thin pickings.

If I had my way, Mullens is about it, not happily.

If we need a mentor, Alex Smith.  Definitely over Hoyer.

Oh wait.....definitely Geno Smith.  No question.  

 

[QB1]

Minshew is on the jaguars roster 

[playtowinthegame]

Imagine Zach Wilson and Brian Hoyer as our 1 and 2 quarterbacks going into next season. I thought we were done "tanking."

[mrcoops]

3 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Top remaining free-agent quarterbacks in 2021

1) Nick Mullens, San Francisco 49ers
2) Brian Hoyer, New England Patriots
3) Alex Smith, Washington Football Team
4) Robert Griffin III, Baltimore Ravens
5) Blaine Gabbert, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
6) Matt Barkley, Buffalo Bills
7) Robert Griffin III, Baltimore Ravens
? Blake Bortles, Los Angeles Rams
9) Sean Mannion, Minnesota Vikings
10) A.J. McCarron, Houston Texans

I'll take Smith, Mullens, McCarron, Hoyer or Barkley.

Although Smith wants to start and won't be cheap, and Mullens is still injured.

I'd probably go McCarron.

[joewilly12]

RG III we can run the wildcat. 

[freestater]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

I can never edit it, touch it or in any way modify what you said

..at one time you could, old friend 

[Warfish]

47 minutes ago, freestater said:

..at one time you could, old friend 

When I was a younger, and much dumber man indeed!

To Max's credit, he's never even remotely considered me for Mod here at JN, lol!

[Philc1]

21 hours ago, Tranquilo said:

How do you plan to pay Alex Smith 10 million while also having enough to sign a few CBs, LBs, and the rookies?

I dunno. With the $60 million in unused cap room?