It’s negligence Wilson isn’t at camp

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, GREENBEAN said:

This aged well.


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[BornJetsFan1983]

1 hour ago, slats said:

The Jets don’t have cash issues. It’s no concern of JD’s when and how bonus money gets paid. It has no impact on the cap, and no impact on his ability to do his job. It’s purely ownership wanting to hold onto their money longer. Nothing else. 

This, yes, I’ll give you. Even though the offset money thing is stupid, too. Especially for the #2 pick in the draft. CIA directors probably face less of a vetting process than highly touted college athletes. 

Under the current for sure.

[BornJetsFan1983]

18 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

I agree 100%. I've never been such a believer in any GM the Jets have ever had besides maybe when Parcells was GM for a year in 2000. I think Woody has finally found a good front office. The key going forward, is to leave Joe Douglas alone and let him build the team the way he wants to. I really think with JD, this team will be SB champions within 4 years.

That is the hope.i can tell you this right now we have a sensible and logical path in the building. Roster and coaching...that in itself is very promising. You need good structure to hold up those trophies. We are on our way

[flgreen]

6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Well, all I keep hearing around here is "Precedence" and how important that is.   Could simply be a negotiation tactic or you could be right and it's the Johnsons.

It's more then the Johnson's.  it's 29 out of the 32 NFL owners.  This will be a big bargaining chip in the next CBA that the owners will get something valuable back for.  

[NYJ1]

10 hours ago, slats said:

The Jets don’t have cash issues. It’s no concern of JD’s when and how bonus money gets paid. It has no impact on the cap, and no impact on his ability to do his job. It’s purely ownership wanting to hold onto their money longer. Nothing else. 

This is absurd. You're trying to tell me that because he cleaned up the financial house that now he simply doesn't worry about it? Every GM that knows what he's doing is ALWAYS budgeting years in advance. So I guess at that rate, we don't need Joe Douglas anymore. I mean Woody can just spend like a drunken sailor and it doesn't matter if portions of enormous signing bonus get paid this season. You've got to start using your head, Sir....

[Savage69]

On 7/31/2021 at 4:43 PM, NYJ1 said:

I agree 100%. I've never been such a believer in any GM the Jets have ever had besides maybe when Parcells was GM for a year in 2000. I think Woody has finally found a good front office. The key going forward, is to leave Joe Douglas alone and let him build the team the way he wants to. I really think with JD, this team will be SB champions within 4 years.

The Tuna was GM for all the time he was with the Jets he was HC/GM 97-99

[billo83]

On 7/31/2021 at 4:43 PM, NYJ1 said:

I agree 100%. I've never been such a believer in any GM the Jets have ever had besides maybe when Parcells was GM for a year in 2000. I think Woody has finally found a good front office. The key going forward, is to leave Joe Douglas alone and let him build the team the way he wants to. I really think with JD, this team will be SB champions within 4 years.

And the Tuna wasn't that good of a GM as it is IMO. Tuna the HC bailed out Tuna the GM quite often.

 

JD is already a better GM than the Tuna ever was IMHO.

[slats]

10 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

This is absurd. You're trying to tell me that because he cleaned up the financial house that now he simply doesn't worry about it? Every GM that knows what he's doing is ALWAYS budgeting years in advance. So I guess at that rate, we don't need Joe Douglas anymore. I mean Woody can just spend like a drunken sailor and it doesn't matter if portions of enormous signing bonus get paid this season. You've got to start using your head, Sir....

Joe Douglas’ ledger is the salary cap. That’s his concern, not when actual cash gets paid. For salary cap purposes, a signing bonus is divided by the number of years of the deal and charged equally over the term of the contract. In this case, it’s $22.9M divided by four and charged at $5.7M/year no matter if it was paid in full at signing (as its name suggests) or paid on the last day of the contract. Deferring $6M in signing bonus money has no impact at all on his bottom line, as it has no effect on how it’s charged against the cap. If JD wanted to move that money into next year for cap purposes, he’d reduce the signing bonus by $6M and add $6M to his roster bonus next season. But that’s not what we’re talking about. This was ownership looking to hold onto their money even though it was being charged against the cap as if it had been paid. This attempt to withhold bonus payments was 100% the owners and 0% JD. 

[LIJetsFan]

I'm in the "bargaining  chip vs the offset language" camp myself.  

[Jet Nut]

On 7/31/2021 at 8:25 PM, kevinc855 said:

To some around here. Any bad decision by front office is because the Johnsons have a say. 
 

Then they celebrate good decisions and say how happy they are JD makes all the calls…

Conflict logic much?

Kind of the exact opposite of the logic you use.  There are no ramifications to the Jets team and to JD when and how Wilson gets paid.  Doesnt change the cap in any way and thats all JD cares about

Fact remains, calling a 2 day negotiation between a team and its #1 draft pick negligence wasnt ugh, negligent.

Or troll like from someone who hates JD, take your pick

[NYJ1]

2 hours ago, slats said:

 This attempt to withhold bonus payments was 100% the owners and 0% JD. 

The above sentence is 100% FALLACY. This is 100% what you THINK it is and 0% truth. The financial optics of the NYJ is 100% Joe Douglas' pool to sink or swim in. When Woody handed over the reigns to Joe Douglas, he handed it over 100%. Including how contracts are structured. Woody hired JD to be the GM and contract structuring falls under Joe's area of expertise and responsibility when he relinquished control. To say anything otherwise, like some silly conspiracy theory that Woody never really gave up 100% control is someone wearing a tin foil hat. 

[slats]

3 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

The above sentence is 100% FALLACY. This is 100% what you THINK it is and 0% truth. The financial optics of the NYJ is 100% Joe Douglas' pool to sink or swim in. When Woody handed over the reigns to Joe Douglas, he handed it over 100%. Including how contracts are structured. Woody hired JD to be the GM and contract structuring falls under Joe's area of expertise and responsibility when he relinquished control. To say anything otherwise, like some silly conspiracy theory that Woody never really gave up 100% control is someone wearing a tin foil hat. 

You’re wrong. I’ve tried to explain it to you, but I guess it’s just not gonna take. Deferring bonus payments =/= contract structuring. That’s what you’re clearly not understanding. Withholding signing bonus money has no effect on the salary cap at all, but does keep that money in the owner’s pockets. 

[kevinc855]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Kind of the exact opposite of the logic you use.  There are no ramifications to the Jets team and to JD when and how Wilson gets paid.  Doesnt change the cap in any way and thats all JD cares about

Fact remains, calling a 2 day negotiation between a team and its #1 draft pick negligence wasnt ugh, negligent.

Or troll like from someone who hates JD, take your pick

Funny how im consistently right on more things then you?

Why wont you take the White Morgan bet? 

[Warfish]

5 hours ago, slats said:

Joe Douglas’ ledger is the salary cap. That’s his concern, not when actual cash gets paid.

JD is a cog in a business.  And the business cares about cash outlay and cash flow. 

So by extension, JD cares about cash outlay and cash flow.

I believe you're seeing a distinction that does not exist, that the GM is separate from the business in some way that would shelter him from business concerns.  I would offer that that theory is not accurate.

[Warfish]

41 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Funny how im consistently right on more things then you?

Have you been?

41 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Why wont you take the White Morgan bet? 

What's the bet exactly?

[TokyoJetsFan]

On 8/1/2021 at 8:09 AM, The Crusher said:

 

Stop posting pictures of Sam darnold

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Funny how im consistently right on more things then you?

Why wont you take the White Morgan bet? 

Funny, I've never read anything you have said thats right.  If fact youre pretty much wrong every time you post.   I cant ever remember you being right more often than anyone

And start with telling me a QB youver never seen throw a ball is a bust

You really want to bet that Morgans cut?  Go for it, you tell me what.  

[kevinc855]

That white will be number 2

learn to READ

[kevinc855]

Just now, kevinc855 said:

That white will be number 2

learn to READ

@Jet Nut

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

That white will be number 2

learn to READ

Learn how to read, you said that Morgan was a bust who would get cut.

Whoever is listed and 2 or 3 has nothing to do with who will last, who is the best alternative or who is the actual backup. Which you know was the point of drafting him.  Youre now going from hes getting cut to just #3.  

 

[slats]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

JD is a cog in a business.  And the business cares about cash outlay and cash flow. 

So by extension, JD cares about cash outlay and cash flow.

I believe you're seeing a distinction that does not exist, that the GM is separate from the business in some way that would shelter him from business concerns.  I would offer that that theory is not accurate.

You’re agreeing with me and don’t even know it. I understand that Joe D works for the owner. And also that it’s the owner who wants to defer payments because that sort of thing has nothing to do with salary cap management and everything to do with the owner wanting to hold onto his money longer. Without the interference from ownership, that would never be an issue. 

[Warfish]

53 minutes ago, slats said:

You’re agreeing with me and don’t even know it. I understand that Joe D works for the owner. And also that it’s the owner who wants to defer payments because that sort of thing has nothing to do with salary cap management and everything to do with the owner wanting to hold onto his money longer. Without the interference from ownership, that would never be an issue. 

You seem near-obsessed with the Owner and their financial interests in their operations of their business.

I honestly don't care slats.  The Jets are in line with the vast majority of teams in terms of contracts, and Wilson is safely in camp with nothing of importance lost.

If you have a point here beyond "I hate rich people", I must be missing it.

[NYJ1]

8 hours ago, slats said:

You’re wrong. I’ve tried to explain it to you, but I guess it’s just not gonna take. Deferring bonus payments =/= contract structuring. That’s what you’re clearly not understanding. Withholding signing bonus money has no effect on the salary cap at all, but does keep that money in the owner’s pockets. 

You are WRONG and you're too stuck in 1st gear to understand Football basics. Joe Douglas will ALWAYS be concerned about EVERY minor detail as it affects the Jets financial big picture. If he's not that's what ultimately lands him cap hell. He pays attention to the language in the contract. With the help of lawyers he helps WRITE contracts. He also goes into a negotiation knowing he may have to make concessions in order to find common ground. Woody Johnson is NOT negotiating with Zach and is NOT writing contracts. He gave up all of those responsibilities to Joe Douglas. He only trusts that Joe Douglas will protect the team in the event a contract goes wrong.

[slats]

15 hours ago, Warfish said:

You seem near-obsessed with the Owner and their financial interests in their operations of their business.

I honestly don't care slats.  The Jets are in line with the vast majority of teams in terms of contracts, and Wilson is safely in camp with nothing of importance lost.

If you have a point here beyond "I hate rich people", I must be missing it.

The Jets’ owner is needlessly meddlesome and is generally considered one of the worst in the sport because of his need to incompetently interject himself into business he knows nothing about. Woody being back in the building and Zach being the last draft pick signed are not mutually exclusive facts. 

12 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

You are WRONG and you're too stuck in 1st gear to understand Football basics. Joe Douglas will ALWAYS be concerned about EVERY minor detail as it affects the Jets financial big picture. If he's not that's what ultimately lands him cap hell. He pays attention to the language in the contract. With the help of lawyers he helps WRITE contracts. He also goes into a negotiation knowing he may have to make concessions in order to find common ground. Woody Johnson is NOT negotiating with Zach and is NOT writing contracts. He gave up all of those responsibilities to Joe Douglas. He only trusts that Joe Douglas will protect the team in the event a contract goes wrong.

Nope. As previously discussed, nothing that held up contract talks between Zach and the team had any salary cap ramifications at all. Joe Douglas cares about as much about the price of hot dogs at MetLife (or is that all part of the financial big picture to you?) as he does about deferred bonus payments. 

[NYJ1]

11 minutes ago, slats said:

The Jets’ owner is needlessly meddlesome and is generally considered one of the worst in the sport because of his need to incompetently interject himself into business he knows nothing about. Woody being back in the building and Zach being the last draft pick signed are not mutually exclusive facts. 

Nope. As previously discussed, nothing that held up contract talks between Zach and the team had any salary cap ramifications at all. Joe Douglas cares about as much about the price of hot dogs at MetLife (or is that all part of the financial big picture to you?) as he does about deferred bonus payments. 

The first part of this post is plain old conspiracy theory. You have ZERO proof to support your argument. As I said it's tin foil hat nonsense. When Woody opted to turn over control of the organization to Douglas, what part of that development did you not understand? Joe Douglas runs the Jets now and if he didn't believe he had enough control to build the team the way he wants to be would have quit by now.

The second part is clearly wrong, but now I get why you're saying it? You have to because it supports your very absurd conspiracy theories? But you're entitled to your very wild theories. In other news, you should know there was another Bigfoot sighting. Lol

[#27TheDominator]

The one ******* thread that actually needs some @Defense Wins Championships and he is conspicuously absent.  WTF? 

Oh, and Tuna was a ******* atrocity as a GM.

[freestater]

1 hour ago, NYJ1 said:

The first part of this post is plain old conspiracy theory. You have ZERO proof to support your argument. As I said it's tin foil hat nonsense. When Woody opted to turn over control of the organization to Douglas, what part of that development did you not understand? Joe Douglas runs the Jets now and if he didn't believe he had enough control to build the team the way he wants to be would have quit by now.

The second part is clearly wrong, but now I get why you're saying it? You have to because it supports your very absurd conspiracy theories? But you're entitled to your very wild theories. In other news, you should know there was another Bigfoot sighting. Lol

I think you vastly overestimate how much control Joe Douglas has over the entirety of the Jets organization. You think Hymie Elhai is just fetching coffee? 

[peebag]

10 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

The one ******* thread that actually needs some @Defense Wins Championships and he is conspicuously absent.  WTF? 

Oh, and Tuna was a ******* atrocity as a GM.

[slats]

8 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

The first part of this post is plain old conspiracy theory. You have ZERO proof to support your argument. As I said it's tin foil hat nonsense. When Woody opted to turn over control of the organization to Douglas, what part of that development did you not understand? Joe Douglas runs the Jets now and if he didn't believe he had enough control to build the team the way he wants to be would have quit by now.

The second part is clearly wrong, but now I get why you're saying it? You have to because it supports your very absurd conspiracy theories? But you're entitled to your very wild theories. In other news, you should know there was another Bigfoot sighting. Lol

This is hilarious, thank you. Especially considering that you started the Owner’s Ranked thread that had the Johnson’s ranked 29th, and the reasoning was… 
 

The opinion is that they get too involved in the decision making, and it hasn't been very good since 2010. 
 
I mean, does it get much better than that? Big Foot in a tinfoil hat? Yeah, no, they don’t stick their noses in where they don’t belong. That’s crazy talk. 

 

[NYJ1]

13 minutes ago, slats said:

This is hilarious, thank you. Especially considering that you started the Owner’s Ranked thread that had the Johnson’s ranked 29th, and the reasoning was… 
 

The opinion is that they get too involved in the decision making, and it hasn't been very good since 2010. 
 
I mean, does it get much better than that? Big Foot in a tinfoil hat? Yeah, no, they don’t stick their noses in where they don’t belong. That’s crazy talk. 

 

 

The owners ranking video was made BEFORE Woody relinquishing control? It's OK. You're entitled to your weirdo theories, but unfortunately you're still WRONG.....

[Biggs]

8 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

The first part of this post is plain old conspiracy theory. You have ZERO proof to support your argument. As I said it's tin foil hat nonsense. When Woody opted to turn over control of the organization to Douglas, what part of that development did you not understand? Joe Douglas runs the Jets now and if he didn't believe he had enough control to build the team the way he wants to be would have quit by now.

The second part is clearly wrong, but now I get why you're saying it? You have to because it supports your very absurd conspiracy theories? But you're entitled to your very wild theories. In other news, you should know there was another Bigfoot sighting. Lol

No owner is turning over the organization to anyone.  Ownership controls organizations because they control the money.  The Jets are a billion dollar plus operation.  Joe D may have some control over contracts but 90 percent of contracts are boilerplate written by the lawyers for the corporation who don't report to the GM.  Those boilerplates are specifically to protect the organization and in the case of a private company ownership.

There is no doubt that cash flow is a huge issue for NFL owners despite rich contracts for TV and valuations.  We just had a Covid year where fans weren't in the stands.  Cash flow coming in from fans stopped.  Cash flow going out didn't stop.  Most of these owners have other cash flow operations they need to support.

Holding onto contract bonuses may be the difference between Woody taking a short term loan to support his charities that might cost hims basis points that he doesn't consider peanuts.  There is zero for Joe D to gain from a football operating reason to withold bonus but there is a cash flow reason owernship wouldn't want it.

And know that doesn't mean Woody had his fingers all over this.  It's just more likely than Joe D did just because being known as a guy who is cheap with players for no football reason at all is almost nonexistent.

[NYJ1]

6 hours ago, freestater said:

I think you vastly overestimate how much control Joe Douglas has over the entirety of the Jets organization. You think Hymie Elhai is just fetching coffee? 

I do? Here is what BUSINESS Mr. Elhai handles... You might want to pay attention to the fact that everything listed is business with clients EXTERIOR to the organization. Lol

 

Hymie Elhai begins his second season as the president of the New York Jets after his appointment by Chairman & CEO Christopher Johnson in 2019. Now in his 21st year with the organization, Elhai has ascended to his role as a result of hard work, dedication and a commitment to the New York Jets.

Overseeing all team business operations, Elhai brings his balance and perspective to those various departments, including Communications, Community Relations, Corporate & Premium Partnerships, Events & Game Operations, Facilities, Finance, Information Technology, Legal & Human Resources, Marketing, Security and Ticketing.

So once again just so you can understand, the salary cap and EVERYTHING to do with it including fine print on contracts is 100% Joe Douglas' responsibility as GM. It really is amazing how you and Slats can be so delusional about your nonsense conspiracy theories.

[NYJ1]

6 minutes ago, Biggs said:

No owner is turning over the organization to anyone.  Ownership controls organizations because they control the money.  The Jets are a billion dollar plus operation.  Joe D may have some control over contracts but 90 percent of contracts are boilerplate written by the lawyers for the corporation who don't report to the GM.  Those boilerplates are specifically to protect the organization and in the case of a private company ownership.

There is no doubt that cash flow is a huge issue for NFL owners despite rich contracts for TV and valuations.  We just had a Covid year where fans weren't in the stands.  Cash flow coming in from fans stopped.  Cash flow going out didn't stop.  Most of these owners have other cash flow operations they need to support.

Holding onto contract bonuses may be the difference between Woody taking a short term loan to support his charities that might cost hims basis points that he doesn't consider peanuts.  There is zero for Joe D to gain from a football operating reason to withold bonus but there is a cash flow reason owernship wouldn't want it.

And know that doesn't mean Woody had his fingers all over this.  It's just more likely than Joe D did just because being known as a guy who is cheap with players for no football reason at all is almost nonexistent.

Oh, so I guess EVERYTHING everyone reads about how the organization is structured is fake, right? Lol Smoke crack much?

[Sperm Edwards]

On 8/2/2021 at 9:40 AM, slats said:

You’re wrong. I’ve tried to explain it to you, but I guess it’s just not gonna take. Deferring bonus payments =/= contract structuring. That’s what you’re clearly not understanding. Withholding signing bonus money has no effect on the salary cap at all, but does keep that money in the owner’s pockets. 

Technically it could. Like if more of the guarantee or bonus payments came after a player was traded. No we don't expect this, but something on the order of 0% of Jets fans expected Darnold to get traded before his rookie contract expired either. In Darnold's case, if another $3MM of his initial SB was to be paid as a year 4 roster bonus, then (depending on the date it was due) the Jets wouldn't have paid it; Carolina would have.

I think there's also a potential concern about precedent. IMO that's part of the vetting, but say in theory Wilson was a character risk. If he got suspended, the team might not be on the hook for future payments, but what was already paid is gone. 

But of course as you brought up a week ago, if they stop picking between #2 and #6 this ceases to be an issue.  

[NYJ1]

8 minutes ago, Biggs said:

No owner is turning over the organization to anyone.  Ownership controls organizations because they control the money.  The Jets are a billion dollar plus operation.  Joe D may have some control over contracts but 90 percent of contracts are boilerplate written by the lawyers for the corporation who don't report to the GM.  Those boilerplates are specifically to protect the organization and in the case of a private company ownership.

There is no doubt that cash flow is a huge issue for NFL owners despite rich contracts for TV and valuations.  We just had a Covid year where fans weren't in the stands.  Cash flow coming in from fans stopped.  Cash flow going out didn't stop.  Most of these owners have other cash flow operations they need to support.

Holding onto contract bonuses may be the difference between Woody taking a short term loan to support his charities that might cost hims basis points that he doesn't consider peanuts.  There is zero for Joe D to gain from a football operating reason to withold bonus but there is a cash flow reason owernship wouldn't want it.

And know that doesn't mean Woody had his fingers all over this.  It's just more likely than Joe D did just because being known as a guy who is cheap with players for no football reason at all is almost nonexistent.

And at that rate, if it's all you say it is, then why even bother having a president or a GM? Wouldn't they all get in the way and be a complete waste of money? Lol This is totally absurd how foolish sucker fans can be.