Ashtyn Davis

[Claymation]

The Jets need more than Lawson and Myers.

[BurntDice]

8 minutes ago, Claymation said:

The Jets need more than Lawson and Myers.

Facts which is why an edge in this class is needed. Need safeties and lb too plus another outside corner. Good thing we have a ton of draft picks and decent cap space 

[Peace Frog]

18 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Facts which is why an edge in this class is needed. Need safeties and lb too plus another outside corner. Good thing we have a ton of draft picks and decent cap space 

If we’re top 2-3-4 we have a very decent shot at Thibs. Especially if a QB or 2 starts to ascend. 

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

If we’re top 2-3-4 we have a very decent shot at Thibs. Especially if a QB or 2 starts to ascend. 

Honestly, I think we might be better off trading down.  It feels like we're so far away right now.

[Peace Frog]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Honestly, I think we might be better off trading down.  It feels like we're so far away right now.

Not if you think he’s the next great edge rusher. Trade down the Seattle pick if you want.

And I want all offense mind you.

[bostonmajet]

It really depends on where our pick lands, but I could see going Center with the Seattle pick - then either edge/LB, WR, or CB with our pick. Unless we have a great run, I would expect that we could trade down a bunch of spots and still get either of those with our pick. If Seattle pick is in the top 15, may even be able to trade that down a bit and get a center.

If that all works out, i can see using our 2nd rounder on a RG (maybe trade up to 1st).

A top pick, center, RB, and something decent with the Carolina pick in 2nd would be a great way to start the draft...

[BurntDice]

14 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

If we’re top 2-3-4 we have a very decent shot at Thibs. Especially if a QB or 2 starts to ascend. 

I 100% agree. The lions and Texans are desperate for a QB. And some guys are starting to be viewed in a better light like Willis (who imo is a better prospect than lance was.) I’d be cool with thib or Hutchinson. Hutch has been playing better than thib this year 

[BurntDice]

5 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

It really depends on where our pick lands, but I could see going Center with the Seattle pick - then either edge/LB, WR, or CB with our pick. Unless we have a great run, I would expect that we could trade down a bunch of spots and still get either of those with our pick. If Seattle pick is in the top 15, may even be able to trade that down a bit and get a center.

If that all works out, i can see using our 2nd rounder on a RG (maybe trade up to 1st).

A top pick, center, RB, and something decent with the Carolina pick in 2nd would be a great way to start the draft...

I don’t see CB at all. Look at the teams saleh has coached. They always put assets into DL, LB, and S. Cb not so much. There’s also no lbs worth a top 10 pick in this class so that narrows it down to edge and wr. I don’t like this wr class at all for top 15 picks. We also don’t need one that high. 

[bostonmajet]

1 minute ago, BurntDice said:

I don’t see CB at all. Look at the teams saleh has coached. They always put assets into DL, LB, and S. Cb not so much 

Yeah, probably not, it would be nice to have another Revis Island - the play not the drama of course

[BurntDice]

1 minute ago, bostonmajet said:

Yeah, probably not, it would be nice to have another Revis Island - the play not the drama of course

That would be nice definitely. He was so damn good. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

You need a pipeline at edge if you're running a 4-3. I get what you're saying but I wouldn't rule it out.

It's very unusual to start that pipeline with a 1st round pick, one year after signing two young DEs to big money. 

Players get injured and plans change, sure, but a GM doing this may as well get up on the podium and do a mumbling Idzik ramble about how badly he judged every 8-figure veteran he's signed and how he should therefore be fired right now. 

More likely they'll fill that pipeline with another mid-rounder or later, and just cross our fingers it isn't as useless a pick as his first mid-round edge rusher. At the most it'd be a 2nd rounder anyway. Pipeline players are ones who are rawer and need some time to simmer. It'd take some stones for him to take such a (non-QB) player in round 1 after a season like this. 

I'm sympathetic to what you're saying, but the problem is a team in needs of immediate starters for the current season hasn't the luxury of using 1st round picks today to start 1-2 years later. 

[Prodigal Syndicate]

Not gonna lie, it would be most amusing to see Joe draft a safety in the first round. I highly doubt that happens, but the reactions on here would be comical.

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Must have been after I turned it off.

[#90]

SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PU.

[K Clue]

Please no more safeties drafted in the top 10...

 

 

[Peace Frog]

ND safety Kyle Hamilton to the Jets at 4. 

Just you wait. 

[BurntDice]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's very unusual to start that pipeline with a 1st round pick, one year after signing two young DEs to big money. 

Players get injured and plans change, sure, but a GM doing this may as well get up on the podium and do a mumbling Idzik ramble about how badly he judged every 8-figure veteran he's signed and how he should therefore be fired right now. 

More likely they'll fill that pipeline with another mid-rounder or later, and just cross our fingers it isn't as useless a pick as his first mid-round edge rusher. At the most it'd be a 2nd rounder anyway. Pipeline players are ones who are rawer and need some time to simmer. It'd take some stones for him to take such a (non-QB) player in round 1 after a season like this. 

I'm sympathetic to what you're saying, but the problem is a team in needs of immediate starters for the current season hasn't the luxury of using 1st round picks today to start 1-2 years later. 

Not unusual at all. Look at the 9ers drafts. They drafted DL on a constant basis high because that is what fuels the defense. It’s actually pretty common.  You also keep saying JFM was signed to big money which is false. He’s signed for 1 more year at a resonable contract. He’s being paid among guys who usually get between 6-10 sacks. 

[DetroitRed]

He looks like a track athlete way too often.  Seems like a situational player.  But, Not blaming him for anything. We need to revamp the entire D, but we knew this going into the year 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, BurntDice said:

Not unusual at all. Look at the 9ers drafts. They drafted DL on a constant basis high because that is what fuels the defense. It’s actually pretty common. 

Hardly apples and apples.

They drafted Bosa because Thomas had already solidified himself as a total bust, and they'd seen enough after 2 years of starting him, so they still had a gaping hole there.

What they didn't do was sign two $15MM/year UFA DEs - or even one high-priced veteran DE opposite Buckner - and then still draft another DE in round 1 in the very next draft.

Totally different situation.

Like it or not, unless they get medical word that Carl Lawson's starting days are over, there's no way Douglas is taking an edge rusher in the top half of round 1. He may as well resign. 

[BurntDice]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Hardly apples and apples.

They drafted Bosa because Thomas had already solidified himself as a total bust, and they'd seen enough after 2 years of starting him, so they still had a gaping hole there.

What they didn't do was sign two $15MM/year UFA DEs - or even one high-priced veteran DE opposite Buckner - and then still draft another DE in round 1 in the very next draft.

Totally different situation.

Like it or not, unless they get medical word that Carl Lawson's starting days are over, there's no way Douglas is taking an edge rusher in the top half of round 1. He may as well resign. 

I don’t understand this take at all. Both of those guys as I mentioned previously are on 1 year deals. They aren’t locked in long term which you are alluding to. You need 2 solid edge guys along with a 3rd guy to rotate in. The jets have 0 depth at edge and who knows if jfm or Lawson are going to be around after next year. Neither Lawson or JFM are proven and you can’t bank on them to be a key piece for this team. 

[RobR]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Hardly apples and apples.

They drafted Bosa because Thomas had already solidified himself as a total bust, and they'd seen enough after 2 years of starting him, so they still had a gaping hole there.

What they didn't do was sign two $15MM/year UFA DEs - or even one high-priced veteran DE opposite Buckner - and then still draft another DE in round 1 in the very next draft.

Totally different situation.

Like it or not, unless they get medical word that Carl Lawson's starting days are over, there's no way Douglas is taking an edge rusher in the top half of round 1. He may as well resign. 

You keep leaving out the fact that the Jets can walk away from both players after one year with almost no salary cap ramifications. It's not like we're locked into these contracts long term and if they don't perform will leave us in salary cap hell. 

You're normally very level headed in these type of posts but you're completely missing the point on this. The Carl Lawson and JFM contracts will have zero bearing on who we should draft in the first round. They both have big salaries next year and after that we can completely walk away.....why would, or should that eliminate the talk of drafting an edge rusher high? 

[DJF71]

Another fantastic JD pick. 

[#27TheDominator]

Interesting idea.  I can see them going edge or safety before CB.  I know a bunch of the talking heads have us going CB, but I don't see it.  I think these guys like to train cheap traits CBs.  I think they will take another one or two in the 4-5-6 range.  I think C that high is insane, but if this guy is that good?  Sure, why not?  

I get what Sperm is saying.  It would be unusual to load up on guys and then head there in the draft, but I don't think these are normal times.  The Jets have a ton of cap money.  They had to spend it somewhere.  Locking up JFM makes sense, they can bump him inside some.  I think that a rookie edge, JFM and Lawson can combine for more that 200% of defensive snaps.  Theoretically.

Still need more O. 

[HessStation]

Jets Fans Official List of Problems:

#381: Safeties Tackling

[xJayce]

2 hours ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

Not gonna lie, it would be most amusing to see Joe draft a safety in the first round. I highly doubt that happens, but the reactions on here would be comical.

I would lose my mind...

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, BurntDice said:

I don’t understand this take at all. Both of those guys as I mentioned previously are on 1 year deals. They aren’t locked in long term which you are alluding to. You need 2 solid edge guys along with a 3rd guy to rotate in. The jets have 0 depth at edge and who knows if jfm or Lawson are going to be around after next year. Neither Lawson or JFM are proven and you can’t bank on them to be a key piece for this team. 

NFL teams don't draft top 10 picks with the planned intent to just use situationally, except at QB. Not after sinking major resources into two expensive veterans at the same position just the prior year. 

What they tend to do is draft someone lower, whom they don't expect to be all that immediately, and groom that person to take over and eventually make the other one(s) expendable. 

Or more likely, since both are locked in for serious $ next year, they'd just take that edge rusher in next year's draft and take someone they'll start full-time this year. Situationally/rotationally for the coming year they can fill that role with less than a top 10 draft pick. 

If Douglas does it anyway, you can return to this thread and say told you so. 

Understand it's more what I think he'll do than how I'd like him to have done it. IMO extending JFM when he did was senseless. If you're going to extend him early then extend him early. Doing it in Sept, before he's got a full year starting under his belt, is something one does when getting a big discount. He paid UFA money to him as though he was backed into a corner. I was one of the few who weren't celebrating when it happened, beyond being happy for the player. The time to do this was in March/April before the draft, when there was a threat to the player of being used merely situationally himself if the team took an edge rusher after signing Lawson. Just bad strategically to not use his leverage when he had it. 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, RobR said:

You keep leaving out the fact that the Jets can walk away from both players after one year with almost no salary cap ramifications. It's not like we're locked into these contracts long term and if they don't perform will leave us in salary cap hell. 

You're normally very level headed in these type of posts but you're completely missing the point on this. The Carl Lawson and JFM contracts will have zero bearing on who we should draft in the first round. They both have big salaries next year and after that we can completely walk away.....why would, or should that eliminate the talk of drafting an edge rusher high? 

Yeah but not in the current year. I'm not missing out on this at all. They are locked in for big money for both next year. Taking a top 10 edge rusher is a de facto admission by the GM that he's made a terrible error - potentially two terrible errors - within one year, at the same position.

It absolutely has bearing because, other than QB, the team expects a top 10 pick to be a full time starter; that's what makes them prospects worthy of such a high pick in the first place. 

See my prior post. It's about the optics of how it looks. Besides, this isn't the only year edge rushers enter the NFL; if he plays his cards right he can - and should - be able to double up in round 1 again next year by trading down some, without having to trade down too far.

[TuscanyTile2]

21 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

NFL teams don't draft top 10 picks with the planned intent to just use situationally, except at QB. Not after sinking major resources into two expensive veterans at the same position just the prior year. 

What they tend to do is draft someone lower, whom they don't expect to be all that immediately, and groom that person to take over and eventually make the other one(s) expendable. 

Or more likely, since both are locked in for serious $ next year, they'd just take that edge rusher in next year's draft and take someone they'll start full-time this year. Situationally/rotationally for the coming year they can fill that role with less than a top 10 draft pick. 

If Douglas does it anyway, you can return to this thread and say told you so. 

Understand it's more what I think he'll do than how I'd like him to have done it. IMO extending JFM when he did was senseless. If you're going to extend him early then extend him early. Doing it in Sept, before he's got a full year starting under his belt, is something one does when getting a big discount. He paid UFA money to him as though he was backed into a corner. I was one of the few who weren't celebrating when it happened, beyond being happy for the player. The time to do this was in March/April before the draft, when there was a threat to the player of being used merely situationally himself if the team took an edge rusher after signing Lawson. Just bad strategically to not use his leverage when he had it. 

Your tagline should be "TLDR". 

 

(kidding)

[Sperm Edwards]

5 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Your tagline should be "TLDR". 

 

(kidding)

I would never abbreviate.

[BurntDice]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

NFL teams don't draft top 10 picks with the planned intent to just use situationally, except at QB. Not after sinking major resources into two expensive veterans at the same position just the prior year. 

What they tend to do is draft someone lower, whom they don't expect to be all that immediately, and groom that person to take over and eventually make the other one(s) expendable. 

Or more likely, since both are locked in for serious $ next year, they'd just take that edge rusher in next year's draft and take someone they'll start full-time this year. Situationally/rotationally for the coming year they can fill that role with less than a top 10 draft pick. 

If Douglas does it anyway, you can return to this thread and say told you so. 

Understand it's more what I think he'll do than how I'd like him to have done it. IMO extending JFM when he did was senseless. If you're going to extend him early then extend him early. Doing it in Sept, before he's got a full year starting under his belt, is something one does when getting a big discount. He paid UFA money to him as though he was backed into a corner. I was one of the few who weren't celebrating when it happened, beyond being happy for the player. The time to do this was in March/April before the draft, when there was a threat to the player of being used merely situationally himself if the team took an edge rusher after signing Lawson. Just bad strategically to not use his leverage when he had it. 

Edge rushers in particular take a couple years to develop. It’s very rare that they come out of the gate playing well. Drafting one in April will give them time to learn more rush moves and advance. Having them rotate in will be a great learning experience. JFM also isn’t a true edge. He’s kind of a hybrid edge/dt. They’ll be able to move the guys around based on what they are scheming for. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, BurntDice said:

Edge rushers in particular take a couple years to develop. It’s very rare that they come out of the gate playing well. Drafting one in April will give them time to learn more rush moves and advance. Having them rotate in will be a great learning experience. JFM also isn’t a true edge. He’s kind of a hybrid edge/dt. They’ll be able to move the guys around based on what they are scheming for. 

I don't think it's that rare when you're talking about a top 4 overall pick, unless it's those that don't end up developing (e.g. Solomon). Up there you're expecting immediate starters like Young, both Bosas, Chubb, Garrett. When they don't they're considered big disappointments, not shrewd future investments.

Anyway again we'll see; it was my guess based on how much $ the GM has already devoted to those positions, so he could look to shore up other areas with these high picks he's hoarded.

Then again it's Douglas, so I guess it's possible he does, and to save face on it he trades JFM by the deadline for a pick in exchange for eating most of that $14MM. I'm still think it's unlikely, though, so soon after those two contracts. 

[BurntDice]

34 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't think it's that rare when you're talking about a top 4 overall pick, unless it's those that don't end up developing (e.g. Solomon). Up there you're expecting immediate starters like Young, both Bosas, Chubb, Garrett. When they don't they're considered big disappointments, not shrewd future investments.

Anyway again we'll see; it was my guess based on how much $ the GM has already devoted to those positions, so he could look to shore up other areas with these high picks he's hoarded.

Then again it's Douglas, so I guess it's possible he does, and to save face on it he trades JFM by the deadline for a pick in exchange for eating most of that $14MM. I'm still think it's unlikely, though, so soon after those two contracts. 

We won’t have a top 4 pick I can guarantee you that, I see around 6 wins. It will probably be somewhere in the 8 range. Look at the upcoming schedule every single game is winnable minus the bucs game.  That will take us out of the thib race. It’ll be between Hutchinson, karlaftis, Jackson, or leal. Those guys all have high upsides , but need some work. There is a reason the best edge players usually don’t hit FA. Why do you continue to bring up jfm? It’s not a large contract. Look at the rest of the guys in his salary range. They aren’t top flight edge players. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, BurntDice said:

We won’t have a top 4 pick I can guarantee you that. It will probably be somewhere in the 8 range. Look at the upcoming schedule every single game is winnable minus the bucs game.  That will take us out of the thib race. It’ll be between Hutchinson, karlaftis, Jackson, or leal. Those guys all have high upsides , but need some work. There is a reason the best edge players usually don’t hit FA. Why do you continue to bring up jfm? It’s not a large contract. Look at the rest of the guys in his salary range. They aren’t top flight edge players. 

I'm bringing up JFM because the GM who just gave him a $14MM raise for next year is the one making the draft picks. 

That's a significant amount. He'll be in the top 15 among DEs next year. Whether they're the current top-top tier isn't all there is to it. In his range are players with far more accomplished on the field, in the locker room, or both: JJ Watt, Ngakoue, Hendrickson, Hunter, Graham, Tuitt, Sweat. (Injuries I can't fault anyone for in advance; they can happen to anyone.) 

Agree on the schedule, which I brought up in another thread myself, but right now I'm not confident in them beating anyone with this defense, which was one FG away from record-setting bad since the bye (so they're only the 2nd-worst ever). If Wilson comes back and looks more like the QB they hoped he'd be, that'll change a lot as it has a way of affecting both sides of the ball, and not just for TOP reasons. That is, if these guys catch the passes, of course. 

[redlichtie]

12 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

See my post above.

Tied into $14MM/year for JFM and $15MM/year for Carl Lawson, and both transactions just happened in 2021.

They're not then going to take an edge in the 1st round in 2022 on top of that.

Not unless they change GMs.

I suspect your logic is probably correct here but if that ludicrous panic move to throw money at JFM is the reason we pass on a top edge rusher then for that reason alone Douglas should be out the door….Myers had shown nothing but a couple of flashes as a promising rotational player with some versatility and a modicum of pass rush ability and I’m still baffled as to what anyone sees in him! Lawson was unfortunate as hell but even then he wasn’t a premier player in terms of production and was more a complimentary player. He’d have been a hell of a 1b to a Chandler Jones style 1a…he may well come back to full fitness and it’s tragic for him that he appeared on the verge of breaking out before the injury but the thought of moving forward in 2022 with those two as our premium edge players is mortifying 

[BurntDice]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm bringing up JFM because the GM who just gave him a $14MM raise for next year is the one making the draft picks. 

That's a significant amount. He'll be in the top 15 among DEs next year. Whether they're the current top-top tier isn't all there is to it. In his range are players with far more accomplished on the field, in the locker room, or both: JJ Watt, Ngakoue, Hendrickson, Hunter, Graham, Tuitt, Sweat. (Injuries I can't fault anyone for in advance; they can happen to anyone.) 

Agree on the schedule, which I brought up in another thread myself, but right now I'm not confident in them beating anyone with this defense, which was one FG away from record-setting bad since the bye (so they're only the 2nd-worst ever). If Wilson comes back and looks more like the QB they hoped he'd be, that'll change a lot as it has a way of affecting both sides of the ball, and not just for TOP reasons. That is, if these guys catch the passes, of course. 

Where are you seeing he’ll be top 15? I can’t find the 2022 contracts, but it looks like he’ll be in the 20s. I never said jfm was good or anything or the sort. He was overpaid sure, but not by much. You pretty much made a prime example of why an edge should be drafted. We don’t have a great one on the team and salehs D has always relied on getting to the QB. That is precisely WHY an edge needs to be drafted. One of my big issues with the D is quinnen Williams and Mosley. Williams is not playing like someone who should get paid. He’s having by far his worst year. He may need to be replaced in the near future also. Mosley just doesn’t fit in a 4-3 he’s way too slow. The transition from a 3-4 to a 4-3 has been rough for this group which I expected. If Lawson was playing it wouldn’t look this bad, but when you have an 18 mil a year lb who is terrible in space on the team it causes a lot of issues.