Poll: If Jax offered Trevor Lawrence straight up for Zach Wilson, would you accept the trade?

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, Hex said:

What have you seen from Lawrence to uphold the opinion? 

The question isn’t “are you as high on TL as you were a year ago?”

The question is would you still rather have him than Wilson. For me this is a no brainer.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Lazy release. Not a quick processor. I'll take Zach.

[Hex]

3 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

The question isn’t “are you as high on TL as you were a year ago?”

The question is would you still rather have him than Wilson. For me this is a no brainer.

I haven't seen anything from either of them to justify doing anything

[UntouchableCrew]

9 minutes ago, Hex said:

I haven't seen anything from either of them to justify doing anything

Purely from an asset accumulation standpoint it makes sense even if you believe in neither of them.

[Hex]

1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Purely from an asset accumulation standpoint it makes sense even if you believe in neither of them.

Then why has something like this never happened?

[UntouchableCrew]

Just now, Hex said:

Then why has something like this never happened?

Teams who just drafted QBs 1st and 2nd overall flipping them for each other?

Because it's a crazy hypothetical, lol.

If the question is "which team is less likely to say yes to this" -- unquestionably the Jaguars.

[#27TheDominator]

56 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

To be fair, none other than the great talent evaluator Mike Tannenbaum was on the record stating, prior to last year, that Josh Allen was never going to succeed because QB accuracy doesn’t improve. THE Mr. T said that.

Lots of people thought that.  I hate scouting QBs.  Personally, give me the freak.  I want a cannon and a big dude that can run.  I don't want to burn #1 on Mayfield.  He might be fine, but at that point I'd rather just take some mid-range guy and hope I luck into Prescott or Wilson than waste the top of the draft on a guy who is not an absolute freak.  I actually liked Lance the best from what I read, but when I watched him - eh.  

[section314]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lmao what?

Two things 1) I would not trade Zach’s potential for TL’s for any price. I think you will not see any appreciable difference in TL 3 years from now . I think he will be a solid top 12-15  QB  for his career. I think Zach’s is a top 5 guy for years.2) Wouldn’t this trade offer just basically validate my point? TL has the chance to be good. I think Zach has the chance to be great.

[Jetsfan80]

27 minutes ago, section314 said:

Two things 1) I would not trade Zach’s potential for TL’s for any price. I think you will not see any appreciable difference in TL 3 years from now . I think he will be a solid top 12-15  QB  for his career. I think Zach’s is a top 5 guy for years.2) Wouldn’t this trade offer just basically validate my point? TL has the chance to be good. I think Zach has the chance to be great.

That doesn’t explain why you actually believe Lawrence has already nearly reached his peak.  That’s an absurd take.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Lots of people thought that.  I hate scouting QBs.  Personally, give me the freak.  I want a cannon and a big dude that can run.  I don't want to burn #1 on Mayfield.  He might be fine, but at that point I'd rather just take some mid-range guy and hope I luck into Prescott or Wilson than waste the top of the draft on a guy who is not an absolute freak.  I actually liked Lance the best from what I read, but when I watched him - eh.  

I think it’s been happening for a few years, but it feels like the qb prospect matrix has been hacked some, and those metrics have to be tinkered with. If you’re passing on Herbert to draft Tua, what are you really doing? 

[jetstream23]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Definitely not, but I imagine quite a few would have been willing to trade him for Lamar Jackson.  Jackson only started 7 games his rookie year but he looked explosive even then.

Yup, the answer is that you simply don't know with a small sample size.

Sam Darnold finished that season with the best December of almost any NFL QB (not just rookies).  It turned out to be a head fake.

The moral of the story, at least to me, is that you can't make a snap judgement after a few games but you likely don't need 3 full seasons.  A knee-jerk reaction after 2018 would have been that guys like Lamar, Sam and Baker are looking really good but Josh (X2) is bad.  That would have only been about a 40% accurate assessment (turns out Lamar WAS good, Rosen WAS bad... the other assessments were off a bit... or a lot).

 

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think it’s been happening for a few years, but it feels like the qb prospect matrix has been hacked some, and those metrics have to be tinkered with. If you’re passing on Herbert to draft Tua, what are you really doing? 

QBASE had Herbert over Tua. Don't blame the metrics.

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

QBASE had Herbert over Tua. Don't blame the metrics.

I knew that was going to end up being the case and yet I still pressed forward like the bonehead I am.

[section314]

36 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That doesn’t explain why you actually believe Lawrence has already nearly reached his peak.  That’s an absurd take.

I think he is close, Zach’s is way higher. Lawrence was the “ generational “talent, the next coming. TL is a nice QB. Has he gotten better since his Soph year? I say no. Zach can make throws TL dreams about. Would not even take the call. That’s me. I can see why you would think otherwise, and I respect your opinion, and disagree big time. But still love you .?❤️

[Grandy]

38 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think it’s been happening for a few years, but it feels like the qb prospect matrix has been hacked some, and those metrics have to be tinkered with. If you’re passing on Herbert to draft Tua, what are you really doing? 

Starting with Mahomes the matrix really did change. For a while, the polished and prototypical QB has been the primary target, and this was really driven home with the 98 draft, and then the next decade or so with a bunch of these physical freak QB's busting. 

However that's changed a lot recently, and maybe even began with Rodgers. GM's and coaches have figured that teaching a guy footwork and mechanics is easier than teaching them arm talent and athleticism that a lot of prototype guys lacked. I believe the biggest key with this all compared to the era of big arm busts is who the QB is upstairs. Leaf and Russell were lazy, Mahomes and Allen are not. 

They may be sloppy now, but the key to success for Wilson and Lawrence will end up being their smarts, work ethic, and passion for the game first and foremost. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

Yup, the answer is that you simply don't know with a small sample size.

Sam Darnold finished that season with the best December of almost any NFL QB (not just rookies).  It turned out to be a head fake.

The moral of the story, at least to me, is that you can't make a snap judgement after a few games but you likely don't need 3 full seasons.  A knee-jerk reaction after 2018 would have been that guys like Lamar, Sam and Baker are looking really good but Josh (X2) is bad.  That would have only been about a 40% accurate assessment (turns out Lamar WAS good, Rosen WAS bad... the other assessments were off a bit... or a lot).

@jgb has pointed out a few times one of Bill Walsh's quotes.  Walsh said 1.5 seasons is enough to see what you have in a player.  I think that's a pretty solid benchmark to use.  If you're not positive you have "your guy" at QB by then, start making plans to replace him.  And if you have a Josh Rosen situation on your hands, feel free to make that move even earlier.

And before you say it, no, we shouldn't use Josh Allen as a reason to push that timeline back.  There was just not much to learn from Allen's historic career turnaround that can be extrapolated to any other young QB.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

I think he is close, Zach’s is way higher. Lawrence was the “ generational “talent, the next coming. TL is a nice QB. Has he gotten better since his Soph year? I say no. Zach can make throws TL dreams about. Would not even take the call. That’s me. I can see why you would think otherwise, and I respect your opinion, and disagree big time. But still love you .?❤️

I'm not sold on Lawrence by any means.  I'm no fanboy whatsoever.  But declaring that he's near his peak before his first season is even complete is just completely premature.  

❤️ you too!

[Hal N of Provo]

25 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

@jgb has pointed out a few times one of Bill Walsh's quotes.  Walsh said 1.5 seasons is enough to see what you have in a player.  I think that's a pretty solid benchmark to use.  If you're not positive you have "your guy" at QB by then, start making plans to replace him.  And if you have a Josh Rosen situation on your hands, feel free to make that move even earlier.

And before you say it, no, we shouldn't use Josh Allen as a reason to push that timeline back.  There was just not much to learn from Allen's historic career turnaround that can be extrapolated to any other young QB.

“At the start of his writing on quarterbacks, Walsh shares his 'ideal size' for an NFL starter: 6-foot-3, 210 pounds. Wilson’s size? 6-foot-3, 210 pounds. We've got our guy!”

 

[TuscanyTile2]

3 hours ago, section314 said:

Two things 1) I would not trade Zach’s potential for TL’s for any price. I think you will not see any appreciable difference in TL 3 years from now . I think he will be a solid top 12-15  QB  for his career. I think Zach’s is a top 5 guy for years.2) Wouldn’t this trade offer just basically validate my point? TL has the chance to be good. I think Zach has the chance to be great.

You won't see an appreciable difference in TL 3 years from now but he'll be a top 12-15 QB?  Does that mean you think he's basically there right now?

As far as "wouldn't this trade offer just basically validate my point?", it's not a real trade offer.  But even if it were, it still wouldn't validate your point.  The Chargers once got rid of Drew Brees.  Would that have validated the point of a Brees-detractor from way back when?

 

[Hex]

33 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

@jgb has pointed out a few times one of Bill Walsh's quotes.

Speaking of jgb, where is he? He's been gone for 9 hours, much longer than normal

[Hal N of Provo]

The quote above was deceptively clipped out of an article before the season for fun. 
 

Walsh would have loved Zach Wilson for real though.  He’s an ideal Bill Walsh QB for many reasons - quick release, athletic enough to escape, able to read a defense, and BYU…

[Peace Frog]

12 minutes ago, Hex said:

Speaking of jgb, where is he? He's been gone for 9 hours, much longer than normal

@jgb is in Bavaria. Its 3 in the morning there. He only stays up this late to…nevermind. 

[Hex]

18 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

@jgb is in Bavaria. Its 3 in the morning there. He only stays up this late to…nevermind. 

maybe he's having his annual break day from JN

[jgb]

6 hours ago, Hex said:

Speaking of jgb, where is he? He's been gone for 9 hours, much longer than normal

Absence makes the heart grow fonder

[jgb]

8 hours ago, Hex said:

maybe he's having his annual break day from JN

When I had a heavy month at work this season and was gone for 4-5 weeks I was accused of being “a vampire” because I came back after a Jets loss. Uh, they’re all losses.

[slimjasi]

9 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That doesn’t explain why you actually believe Lawrence has already nearly reached his peak.  That’s an absurd take.

Yes neither player has reached his “peak” 

Obviously absurd 

[tfine]

Zach will be the better player in time. I think Zach can read defenses better. He just needs to learn to orchestrate the offense


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[jetstream23]

22 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

@jgb has pointed out a few times one of Bill Walsh's quotes.  Walsh said 1.5 seasons is enough to see what you have in a player.  I think that's a pretty solid benchmark to use.  If you're not positive you have "your guy" at QB by then, start making plans to replace him.  And if you have a Josh Rosen situation on your hands, feel free to make that move even earlier.

And before you say it, no, we shouldn't use Josh Allen as a reason to push that timeline back.  There was just not much to learn from Allen's historic career turnaround that can be extrapolated to any other young QB.

You should see what some of the guys around here extrapolated for Mike White! ?

 

 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

If we drafted Lawerence then I'd stick with him.  Since we drafted Wilson, he's my quarterback. 

[slimjasi]

12 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

You should see what some of the guys around here extrapolated for Mike White! ?

 

 

At this rate, Wilson will be out for the season by Monday, so maybe Mike White can still be our Tom Brady ?

[Dunnie]

No

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Dunnie]

Maybe mike quite for trevor ...

Yazzzzzz




Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[#27TheDominator]

On 12/11/2021 at 6:45 PM, slimjasi said:

At this rate, Wilson will be out for the season by Monday, so maybe Mike White can still be our Tom Brady ?

Again? 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Again? 

It will be different this time!

[#27TheDominator]

On 12/10/2021 at 6:14 PM, T0mShane said:

I think it’s been happening for a few years, but it feels like the qb prospect matrix has been hacked some, and those metrics have to be tinkered with. If you’re passing on Herbert to draft Tua, what are you really doing? 

 

On 12/10/2021 at 6:32 PM, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

QBASE had Herbert over Tua. Don't blame the metrics.

Wasn't Herbert the eye-test guy?  "He doesn't elevate his team"  "He doesn't do anything in the big games."  I think that was why he dropped. 

I think the amount of money involved and the teams will to throw super high picks at guys based on the most minor glimmers of hope is screwing with the metrics.  There is value in seasoning, but it isn't worth a season at $30M or losing a chance at the next stud.