Poll: If Jax offered Trevor Lawrence straight up for Zach Wilson, would you accept the trade?

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Weren't you here in 2018?  Most of the world was calling Josh Allen undraftable and whining about completion percentage.  sh*t, until his recent mea culpa 80 was still calling him a fullback within the last year or two.

Meanwhile, Mac Jones has had the McCarron Army out in full force singing his praises.

There's a good point in here. "Haterz" are willing to change their position based on new data. "Loverz" rarely will until the guy is off the team then they just don't want to talk about him anymore.

 

[JoJoTownsell1]

11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Weren't you here in 2018?  Most of the world was calling Josh Allen undraftable and whining about completion percentage.  sh*t, until his recent mea culpa 80 was still calling him a fullback within the last year or two.

Meanwhile, Mac Jones has had the McCarron Army out in full force singing his praises.

Many here were calling him undraftable because they were still dealing with PTSD from Hackenburg. If you remember Hack was a strong armed, big kid who had accuracy issues. Allen had a similar profile so many here wanted no part of him and were calling him Hack 2.0. 

[Jetluv58]

No way. Don’t change horses in mid-stream. GBV

[maury77]

I'd still take Fields over both of them (running for cover in anticipation of the incoming assault). 

[playtowinthegame]

Hell yes. Trevor Lawrence is built better than Zach. Played in more big games. No shoulder issues. Trevor Lawrence is currently 2-0 vs the AFC East. 

[Alworth]

I accidentally voted yes when I meant no. Yikes.

[jetstream23]

50/50 for me.  I think I'd keep Zach.

Just for giggles, where were the 2018 rookie QBs (Baker, Darnold, Lamar, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen) ranked after their rookie years?  I doubt anybody would have traded away Baker Mayfield for Josh Allen at that point.

[slimjasi]

17 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Hell yes. Trevor Lawrence is built better than Zach. Played in more big games. No shoulder issues. Trevor Lawrence is currently 2-0 vs the AFC East. 

Ok, but if you are going to use team records to differentiate between rookie QBs starting for bad franchises, don't you have to cite the overall records?

"Lawrence" is 2-9 overall.

"Wilson" is either 2-6 or 2-5 overall, depending on if you count the second NE game. 

For example, one could say that "Wilson" is 2-0 vs the AFC South. And that would be just as meaningless as saying Lawrence is 2-0 vs the AFC East. 

[The Troll]

Nope, but that says little about Wilson. I never understood why people thought Lawrence was special. It's not like I'm a college football expert. He just never wowed me on the rare times I saw him in college and he has done absolutely nothing at the pro level that makes me think I was wrong. Wilson, while very disappointing, has at least made some plays that make me understand the hype.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

50/50 for me.  I think I'd keep Zach.

Just for giggles, where were the 2018 rookie QBs (Baker, Darnold, Lamar, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen) ranked after their rookie years?  I doubt anybody would have traded away Baker Mayfield for Josh Allen at that point.

Bingo. This has been my basic point for a couple of months now. 

We have nothing to do but overreact to small sample sizes. We are entitled to do so, of course, but it's important to keep in mind that we have very limited data. 

[jetstream23]

13 minutes ago, Alworth said:

I accidentally voted yes when I meant no. Yikes.

 

 

?

[Stark]

11 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Bingo. This has been my basic point for a couple of months now. 

We have nothing to do but overreact to small sample sizes. We are entitled to do so, of course, but it's important to keep in mind that we have very limited data. 

Urban tends to make dumb decisions so in this case... assume he wants Zach because he thinks he made a mistake and that Zach will be better. then we actually get the better qb because Urban messed up, again...

 

[slimjasi]

20 minutes ago, Stark said:

Urban tends to make dumb decisions so in this case... assume he wants Zach because he thinks he made a mistake and that Zach will be better. then we actually get the better qb because Urban messed up, again...

 

The only reason I would even consider trading Wilson for Lawrence at this point is because I had Lawrence as being better headed into the draft. The problem with that is that I know nothing and have been wrong plenty of times before about QB prospects. (e.g. I never thought Sanchez was going to be very good, but thought Darnold was going to be very good - I'm probably around 50/50 overall)

The other thing is, Wilson supposedly has some camaraderie with Moore, Davis, and some of the other young players on the roster. You'd like to invest in that and watch them grow up together. So I'm personally not trading Wilson for another unproven guy. If I'm trading Wilson at this point, I'm getting back an established veteran. So, I'd throw him in a package for Russell Wilson, but I'm not interested in trading him for sunshine.  

 

[section314]

No. Not even a discussion.Next question.

[TuscanyTile2]

5 minutes ago, section314 said:

No. Not even a discussion.Next question.

What do you mean by this?  That, if offered, you wouldn't even consider it?

[section314]

28 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

What do you mean by this?  That, if offered, you wouldn't even consider it?

No hidden meaning here, just would not take the call. 1) Zach has played 8 games. 2) Feel very much like TL has about reached his peak, where Zach has way more upside3) If Jax is making that call, they probably feel same way I do, and seriously believe they took the wrong guy.

[65 Toss Power Trap]

3 hours ago, Alworth said:

I accidentally voted yes when I meant no. Yikes.

Meaning the "yes" votes are over-represented. But even then, "no" votes carry the day, and that is on this board where most of us overthink things and are prone to be cynical, even more so than the average Jet fan. 

[win4ever]

Way too early to tell, neither of them are on offenses that actually fit their skills.   

Wilson is adjusting from a vertical mentality to quick deception horizontal passing mentality.  Lawrence is in a horizontal scheme that doesn't have the players to fit the horizontal scheme.  

I had Lawrence ranked higher than Wilson, so by theory, the answer is still yes.  However, you can't really take away much from either rookie season (or Fields/Lance) because the teams aren't set up well for them.  With the Jets specifically, I expect them to go after an alpha WR either in the draft or free agency, because Wilson needs "coverage erasers" much like Josh Allen can make the wrong read, but still complete it to Diggs.  

[Mike135]

Absolutely.  

Trevor was the #1 consensus pick.

I haven't watched Trevor, but I know Zach has done squat so far to show he'll be good.

So I'm just reverting back to pre-draft preferences. 

[UntouchableCrew]

2 hours ago, slimjasi said:

The only reason I would even consider trading Wilson for Lawrence at this point is because I had Lawrence as being better headed into the draft. The problem with that is that I know nothing and have been wrong plenty of times before about QB prospects. (e.g. I never thought Sanchez was going to be very good, but thought Darnold was going to be very good - I'm probably around 50/50 overall)

The other thing is, Wilson supposedly has some camaraderie with Moore, Davis, and some of the other young players on the roster. You'd like to invest in that and watch them grow up together. So I'm personally not trading Wilson for another unproven guy. If I'm trading Wilson at this point, I'm getting back an established veteran. So, I'd throw him in a package for Russell Wilson, but I'm not interested in trading him for sunshine.  

 

Isn't this exactly why you make the trade? You (and virtually everyone) thought TL was the better QB before they were drafted.

What have you seen from Zach Wilson to change that opinion?

Even if you've soured on TL he certainly hasn't performed at a level to make you think he's worse than Zach Wilson at this point.

[Larz]

Wouldn’t they ask for Mike white?

[Rhg1084]

Imagine if Wilson did this? He has Jets fans coming for his neck even when he puts up 3 TDs in a game ???

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, maury77 said:

I'd still take Fields over both of them (running for cover in anticipation of the incoming assault). 

Someone needs to make a Justin Fields bat signal for @Irish Jet

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

50/50 for me.  I think I'd keep Zach.

Just for giggles, where were the 2018 rookie QBs (Baker, Darnold, Lamar, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen) ranked after their rookie years?  I doubt anybody would have traded away Baker Mayfield for Josh Allen at that point.

Definitely not, but I imagine quite a few would have been willing to trade him for Lamar Jackson.  Jackson only started 7 games his rookie year but he looked explosive even then.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, section314 said:

No hidden meaning here, just would not take the call. 1) Zach has played 8 games. 2) Feel very much like TL has about reached his peak, where Zach has way more upside3) If Jax is making that call, they probably feel same way I do, and seriously believe they took the wrong guy.

lmao what?

[Hex]

12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Geno Smith once won Rookie of the MONTH.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s definitely better to be earning accolades than not as we collect info on the QBs.  But it’s fairly meaningless as a predictor for QB career success.

Even rookie of the year isn't a good predictor.

Sam Bradford, Eddie Lacy, Todd Gurley, and Saquon Barkley are good examples from the past 10 years

Bradford didn't end up having a good career due to his fragility, Gurley isn't even on a team currently, and Barkley looks like a bust. Lacy didn't really do much either

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Isn't this exactly why you make the trade? You (and virtually everyone) thought TL was the better QB before they were drafted.

What have you seen from Zach Wilson to change that opinion?

We haven’t seen anything from either guy to change that opinion, but as I pointed out, that opinion wasn’t based on all that much. I basically liked Lawrence more because the media told me to and because he looked the part. 
 

Furthermore, the longer Lawrence and Wilson fail to look appreciably different from one another, the less likely I am to break up the core of what is an extremely young team. I’d rather watch these guys grow together and see if we can build something here for a change. 
 

[slimjasi]

19 minutes ago, Hex said:

Even rookie of the year isn't a good predictor.

Sam Bradford, Eddie Lacy, Todd Gurley, and Saquon Barkley are good examples from the past 10 years

Bradford didn't end up having a good career due to his fragility, Gurley isn't even on a team currently, and Barkley looks like a bust. Lacy didn't really do much either

Absolutely - But this is yet another argument against overreacting to a player’s rookie year in general. There are too many examples of late bloomers as well guys who start fast and fade. 
 

you usually need to see how a player looks in year 2, at the very least 

[Hex]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Isn't this exactly why you make the trade? You (and virtually everyone) thought TL was the better QB before they were drafted.

What have you seen from Zach Wilson to change that opinion?

 

What have you seen from Lawrence to uphold the opinion? 

[Hex]

Just now, slimjasi said:

Absolutely - But this is yet another argument against overreacting to a player’s rookie year in general. There are too many examples of late bloomers as well guys who start fast and fade. 
 

you usually need to see how a player looks in year 2, at the very least 

Exactly -- that's why Rookie of the Year is not a very good predictor

[T0mShane]

5 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Weren't you here in 2018?  Most of the world was calling Josh Allen undraftable and whining about completion percentage.  sh*t, until his recent mea culpa 80 was still calling him a fullback within the last year or two.

Meanwhile, Mac Jones has had the McCarron Army out in full force singing his praises.

To be fair, none other than the great talent evaluator Mike Tannenbaum was on the record stating, prior to last year, that Josh Allen was never going to succeed because QB accuracy doesn’t improve. THE Mr. T said that.

[slimjasi]

Just now, Hex said:

Exactly -- that's why Rookie of the Year is not a very good predictor

Yep, And remember that if the award didn’t go to Saquon, it would have gone to Mayfield, who may not even get another contract in Cleveland now. 

[The Crusher]

4 hours ago, Stark said:

Urban tends to make dumb decisions so in this case... assume he wants Zach because he thinks he made a mistake and that Zach will be better. then we actually get the better qb because Urban messed up, again...

 

I guess the video of him frisking that young lady at  the bar confirms this. 

[Hex]

4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Yep, And remember that if the award didn’t go to Saquon, it would have gone to Mayfield, who may not even get another contract in Cleveland now. 

Yep. Now it's clear that Jackson and Allen were probably the best players in that draft, and they weren't winning that award.

[Stark]

5 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

I guess the video of him frisking that young lady at  the bar confirms this.