Watson to Browns

[Mogglez]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

The context of “they probably should have” is Buzbee dropping a thinly veiled threat like the bogus Bensonhurst mobster from a bad 70’s flick that he is. 

No, it actually wasn’t, but I truly think you know that.  It’s very clear what he was saying, and I outlined it pretty clearly.

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

No, it actually wasn’t, but I truly think you know that.  It’s very clear what he was saying, and I outlined it pretty clearly.

It’s very clear that if he had any information that might have helped him not get hand-waved by literally everyone he brought his cases to, he would have already shared that with the appropriate authorities. Instead, he’s sitting out here with his hat in his hand waiting around for Watson to throw him a check. I don’t know what you’re hoping for at this point. For Watson to be marched down the street while people throw tomatoes at him? 

[Jet Nut]

34 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

The GM who made this trade, Andrew Berry, is not the GM who drafted , signed, or traded for the players you named Jet nut.

The GM who did was John Dorsey.

What Berry has done is get rid of OBJ, Landry, Hooper, and Higgins and very shortly Mayfield. Why? Because the HC (who ran Stefan Diggs out of Minnesota) wants a run oriented offense.

How he’s going to coincide that with DeShaun Watson, I have no idea, and I really don’t care. The Browns made their bed here, and their fans aren’t happy about it.

I didnt say he drafted or acquired those players.  I said he had those players to fall back on and couldn't get it done

I think you can win games with Baker but hes to a QB to take you to a SB.  I think they want to run a run first offense is because you cant rely on Baker to run a pass first offense, Ala Sanchez.  I'lll bet they dont run a heavily run based offense with Watson, that they play more of a passing offense, more than they did with Baker

[Mogglez]

36 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s very clear that if he had any information that might have helped him not get hand-waved by literally everyone he brought his cases to, he would have already shared that with the appropriate authorities. Instead, he’s sitting out here with his hat in his hand waiting around for Watson to throw him a check. I don’t know what you’re hoping for at this point. For Watson to be marched down the street while people throw tomatoes at him? 

It was up to the Browns to obtain that information.  They didn’t.  Furthermore, Buzbee hasn’t been hand waved by anyone.  There will still be 22 civil cases, despite the fact that already tried throwing him a check.  He and his clients denied it because Watson/Hardin wanted an NDA as well:

https://www.chron.com/sports/texans/amp/Deshaun-Watson-settlement-offer-civil-suit-leaked-16775875.php

Here’s the ACTUAL document of the aforementioned settlement offer/NDA:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21179345-watson-confidential-agreement

A five second Google search would have told you that but, at this point, you have shown time and time again that your disdain for Buzbee is, strangely, above everything else.  I don’t know why.  It could be because you wanted Watson more than anyone on this board at one point, and still did up until he was traded to Cleveland. Or it could be you simply don’t like Buzbee.  Maybe it’s something else.  I don’t know.  All I can say is that it’s, honestly, bizarre.  Especially when you have said yourself that you do believe Watson DID do some abhorrent things.

My hope?  I’m hope that he’s found guilty in the civil suits and some justice is served for the 22 women that anyone with a brain and critical thinking skills can see were victimized by this disgusting animal.  If there’s any karma in this desolate world, or a moral bone in Goodell’s body, Watson will be suspended multiple games for each victim he is found guilty of harassing and assaulting, in the civil suits.

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

It was up to the Browns to obtain that information.  They didn’t.  Furthermore, Buzbee hasn’t been hand waved by anyone.  There will still be 22 civil cases, despite the fact that already tried throwing him a check.  He and his clients denied it because Watson/Hardin wanted an NDA as well.

https://www.chron.com/sports/texans/amp/Deshaun-Watson-settlement-offer-civil-suit-leaked-16775875.php

Here’s the ACTUAL document of the aforementioned settlement offer/NDA:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21179345-watson-confidential-agreement

A five second Google search would have told you that but, at this point, you have shown time and time again that your disdain for Buzbee is, strangely, above everything else.  I don’t know why.  It could be because you wanted Watson more than anyone on this board at one point, and still did up until he was traded to Cleveland. Or it could be you simply don’t like Buzbee.  Maybe it’s something else.  I don’t know.  All I can say is that it’s, honestly, bizarre.  Especially when you have said yourself that you do believe Watson DID do some abhorrent things.

My hope?  I’m hope that he’s found guilty in the civil suits and some justice is served for the 22 women that anyone with a brain and critical thinking skills can see were victimized by this disgusting animal.  If there’s any karma in this desolate world, or a moral bone in Goodell’s body, Watson will be suspended multiple games for each victim he is found guilty of harassing and assaulting, in the civil suits.

Or,

Hardin made the unrebutted contention that, as to any eventual deal, Hardin and Watson want full transparency and Buzbee and his clients seek confidentiality.

Buzbee never refuted Hardin’s contention. It’s now clear why. Near the bottom of a lengthy item from SI.com that delves into various issues and dynamics relating to the Watson controversy appears confirmation from Buzbee that he and his clients want confidentiality.

 

Then prior to the trade deadline, 18 of 22 wanted to settle. Four holdouts. 
 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/12/17/18-of-22-plaintiffs-were-ready-to-settle-with-deshaun-watson-four-holdouts-blocked-trade-to-dolphins/

 

Watson did do some gross and weird sh*t. You referred to him multiple times as a “rapist,” which none of his accusers has claimed. He’ll live the rest of his life as a dude who people believe raped women (even though that was never even implied by said women). He will settle with these women, and he’ll be suspended by the league. I get you want more than that. 

[Mogglez]

22 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Or,

Hardin made the unrebutted contention that, as to any eventual deal, Hardin and Watson want full transparency and Buzbee and his clients seek confidentiality.

Buzbee never refuted Hardin’s contention. It’s now clear why. Near the bottom of a lengthy item from SI.com that delves into various issues and dynamics relating to the Watson controversy appears confirmation from Buzbee that he and his clients want confidentiality.

 

Then prior to the trade deadline, 18 of 22 wanted to settle. Four holdouts. 
 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/12/17/18-of-22-plaintiffs-were-ready-to-settle-with-deshaun-watson-four-holdouts-blocked-trade-to-dolphins/

 

Watson did do some gross and weird sh*t. You referred to him multiple times as a “rapist,” which none of his accusers has claimed. He’ll live the rest of his life as a dude who people believe raped women (even though that was never even implied by said women). He will settle with these women, and he’ll be suspended by the league. I get you want more than that. 

You don’t put out an NDA preventing the victim from speaking to anyone, publicly, or privately, including the NFL, if you want “full transparency”.  You don’t get on a stand and plead the fifth over 100 times, if you truly want “full transparency.”

At least one of the cases accuses him of forcing them to perform oral sex on him:

That’s rape.  Period.  That is why I will continue to call him a rapist, as will many others.  Calling it, or him, anything less is disgusting and underselling what he did.

[T0mShane]

18 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

You don’t put out an NDA preventing the victim from speaking to anyone, publicly, or privately, including the NFL, if you want “full transparency”.  You don’t get on a stand and plead the fifth over 100 times, if you truly want “full transparency.”

At least one of the cases accuses him of forcing them to perform oral sex on him:

That’s rape.  Period.  That is why I will continue to call him a rapist, as will many others.  Calling it, or him, anything less is disgusting and underselling what he did.

Best to just stop arguing about it at this point. They went after him, they made accusations, none of them stuck, and Watson is a member of the Browns. He’s going to write a series of checks, take a brief suspension, and that’ll be the end of it. Watson’s gross, Buzbee’s a scumbag, and there’s no reason to argue on either of their behalves. 

[Green Ghost]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

I didnt say he drafted or acquired those players.  I said he had those players to fall back on and couldn't get it done

I think you can win games with Baker but hes to a QB to take you to a SB.  I think they want to run a run first offense is because you cant rely on Baker to run a pass first offense, Ala Sanchez.  I'lll bet they dont run a heavily run based offense with Watson, that they play more of a passing offense, more than they did with Baker

Stefanski has run that same offense his entire career, not just with Baker.

i agree with your last point though about it changing this season with Watson. I can’t imagine him going to Cleveland if Stefanski didn’t promise to design a scheme around his strengths.

(as I type this I’m tempted to argue with myself however. For the money Watson got, I’m not sure he cares what offense the Browns want to run.)

[Mogglez]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Best to just stop arguing about it at this point. They went after him, they made accusations, none of them stuck, and Watson is a member of the Browns. He’s going to write a series of checks, take a brief suspension, and that’ll be the end of it. Watson’s gross, Buzbee’s a scumbag, and there’s no reason to argue on either of their behalves. 

Fair enough.  Truth be told, I agree

I said it in the thread we were just tagged in, but will repeat it here, just in case you don’t stop by there.  As spirited as this conversation is/was, just know that I still respect you and think you are a great guy to talk ball and world events with, regardless of the things we disagree with regarding this conversation.  I think it’s important to stress that because this is, obviously, a sensitive topic for numerous reasons.  I just keep driving my points home on this case because I think it’s imperative that we, as a society, keep having these discussions to point out the many flaws in our justice system so that we can aim to improve them.  Even if those conversations happen on a Sunday night, 7 1/2 hours before I have to get up for work, on a New York Jets message board, lol.

[Spoot-Face]

@T0mShane @Mogglez

Group hug, guys. Bring it in.

[Biggs]

18 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

I think I’ve said all I need to say to the Darnold fan boys trying to equate him to Mayfield.

The bottom line here is Baker Mayfield is an above average NFL QB, but DeShaun Watson is a phenomenal one, albeit with a ton of baggage.

The Browns decided to go with him over Mayfield, which is a smart move unless you have a moral compass. I’ll hope for Baker to land on a good team and will continue to follow him. The Browns and Watson? Meh.

Peace out, boys. Now let’s get back to hoping young Zach has what it takes.

Baker is way better than Darnold.  He's not above average.   Throw out last year when he was hurt and go back to 2020.   He was 18th in total yards.  15th in QBR.  30th in completion percentage.  16th in TD's.  8th in INT percentage.  

The Browns had the 3rd best run game in the league and they were ranked 16th in total O because they were ranked 24th in passing yards.

He's best year he was an average NFL QB.  Nothing above average about him. 

The Browns went after Watson because in their division they have two NFL QB's who are elite and needed to substantial upgrade from average to have a shot to compete.  

Watson may well be the 3rd best QB in that division and he's cost may actual hinder their ability to overcome the Ravens and the Bengals.  TBD.  It's a very high risk move.   

Love to see Baker end up in Indy and tone down his act.  If he's an actual upgrade from Wentz Indy would have a great shot to compete with him next year.

[More Cowbell]

10 hours ago, Jet hustle said:

You may be right.   But he is still WAY better than Sam Darnold.....

No doubt he is better, or actually sucks less. He still sucks. 

[68JET11]

On 3/19/2022 at 9:04 AM, GKnight83 said:

If you are referring to 1969...

Let not forget they had some great young players.

They also had some fantastic coaches who had been there before.

Trivia question for Met fans - where did the Mets colors come from?

Answer:  The Dodgers and the Giants

Asked, and Answered...  Awesome !!!

[Biggs]

23 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Put it this way, the Texans rather have Davis Mills at QB than Baker. Baker should have at the least been a throw in on that deal. Mills averaged about 200 yards a game but a SIGNIFICANTLY better QB than Darnold is not even considered. I mean do you think Baker was responsible for that teams success? They started winning when they took tha ball out of his hands and became a run first team. They didn't  want him throwing a lot because it would lead to picks. 

If you watched Davis Mills play last year it wouldn't surprise me if Joe Douglas, Bill Belichick and Trent Balke wouldn't rather have Mills either.   Mills by the end of last year was the best rookie QB in the NFL.  

Davis Mills on an amazingly crappy team with a first time HC was playing NFL football at the end of last year.  He's big mobile and has a great arm along with a Brain.   Mills has size and mobility that Baker will never have.  

[More Cowbell]

I actually did have Mills on one of my fantasy teams because it was a 2 QB league and Mills was one of my backups. Anyone who was starting was on a team in that league. Mills did have some big games I agree, but he is far from consistent.  Maybe he can put it together but he doesn't strike me as a SB QB. Baker at this point does not either but Mills was what, a 3rd pick?

[68JET11]

 

11 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I mean, all you’ve heard is one side of the story.

CB:  So Deshauen, why don't you tell us what happened with the 22 woman.

DW:  Well you know, come on man, when you're getting a massage you want the full experience, you know how this works... I asked them if they wanted tickets to the football game if they finished me off.

CB:  So did you actually give them the tickets to complete you...

DW.  Well no, it was just to get them interested.

CB:  Well played... Welcome to the Cleveland Browns

Hypothetically of course !!!

[Biggs]

9 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Fair enough.  Truth be told, I agree

I said it in the thread we were just tagged in, but will repeat it here, just in case you don’t stop by there.  As spirited as this conversation is/was, just know that I still respect you and think you are a great guy to talk ball and world events with, regardless of the things we disagree with regarding this conversation.  I think it’s important to stress that because this is, obviously, a sensitive topic for numerous reasons.  I just keep driving my points home on this case because I think it’s imperative that we, as a society, keep having these discussions to point out the many flaws in our justice system so that we can aim to improve them.  Even if those conversations happen on a Sunday night, 7 1/2 hours before I have to get up for work, on a New York Jets message board, lol.

How would you like to improve the justice system?  How does this case show flaws in the Justice system?  All or any of these women can go after Watson in civil litigation.    

Personally I do see one flaw.   The lawyers on both sides of this case have tried to try it in the court of public opinion.  Perhaps they should both be disbarred?  

[section314]

28 minutes ago, Biggs said:

If you watched Davis Mills play last year it wouldn't surprise me if Joe Douglas, Bill Belichick and Trent Balke wouldn't rather have Mills either.   Mills by the end of last year was the best rookie QB in the NFL.  

Davis Mills on an amazingly crappy team with a first time HC was playing NFL football at the end of last year.  He's big mobile and has a great arm along with a Brain.   Mills has size and mobility that Baker will never have.  

I was watching the NFL network the other night, and they mentioned that a bunch of scouts last year leading up to the draft said if Mills had stayed at Stanford he more than likely would have been the #1 pick in this draft.

[68JET11]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

I was watching the NFL network the other night, and they mentioned that a bunch of scouts last year leading up to the draft said if Mills had stayed at Stanford he more than likely would have been the #1 pick in this draft.

I would have not been disappointed if JD traded the #2 last year and drafted Mills instead in the 3rd. I was actually really on board with that. That's not to say I don't like Wilson, I just thought the haul he might have gotten for #2 and the ability to further fill the team with draft picks outweighed picking Wilson at 2.  

[Mogglez]

9 hours ago, Biggs said:

How would you like to improve the justice system?  How does this case show flaws in the Justice system?  All or any of these women can go after Watson in civil litigation.    

Personally I do see one flaw.   The lawyers on both sides of this case have tried to try it in the court of public opinion.  Perhaps they should both be disbarred?  

Personally, I’d like to see these numbers flipped:

Look, I won’t sit here, lie to you, and tell you I have the answers, because I don’t.  What I can tell you is that there is definitely a problem in our society and how we treat victims of sexual assault, both female AND male so less victim blaming would be a nice start.  Less tarnishing of the victims, what they were doing, what they were wearing, etc. would be a nice start.  I mean shoot, look at that DirtyJersey guy who was posting here and spewing his mentality of “All private masseuses are fatherless Instagram sex workers, looking for a quick pay-day.”  When a man speaks out about his situation, you get the “Oh stop, you got it up, you were enjoying it a little bit”  The sad truth is too many people like that exist in this world, and it leads to victims not wanting to speak up.  Yes, civil suits are something, but that isn’t true “justice”.  Cases like Brock Turner’s and this have done nothing but discourage more and more victims from speaking up.

[Biggs]

16 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Personally, I’d like to see these numbers flipped:

Look, I won’t sit here, lie to you, and tell you I have the answers, because I don’t.  What I can tell you is that there is definitely a problem in our society and how we treat victims of sexual assault, both female AND male so less victim blaming would be a nice start.  Less tarnishing of the victims, what they were doing, what they were wearing, etc. would be a nice start.  I mean shoot, look at that DirtyJersey guy who was posting here and spewing his mentality of “All private masseuses are fatherless Instagram sex workers, looking for a quick pay-day.”  When a man speaks out about his situation, you get the “Oh stop, you got it up, you were enjoying it a little bit”  The sad truth is too many people like that exist in this world, and it leads to victims not wanting to speak up.  Yes, civil suits are something, but that isn’t true “justice”.  Cases like Brock Turner’s and this have done nothing but discourage more and more victims from speaking up.

Disagree that civil suits aren't true justice.   In this country we compensate victims for damage by the perps all the time.  Financial payouts are also a penalty.

I would like to see Judges disbar attorney's who take trials public.  I do think every defendant in a criminal action has the right to challenge the credibility of a witness.  What constitutes credibility and how that credibility is attacked should also be controlled by the Judge in the courtroom. Attacking credibility of a potential witness in the press should be illegal and a disbaring offense.  The idea that were going to throw people in jail without physical evidence or credible witnesses would be tragic in my opinion. 

You have another problem you don't address.   Watson was attacked in the press by his victims through their attorney.  His reputation is damaged without evidence.  This is a two way street and you seem to think the victims shouldn't be attacked but we don't even know if Watson is a victim. 

The problem with this case is Watson was tried in the court of public opinion instead of in court.  The women who may have been violated tried Watson in the court of public opinion.  Watson's attorney defended him in the court of public opinion.  

Convicting someone of a crime and sending them to jail should require more than a public trial.  It should require evidence and at the very least credible witnesses.  This was a public extortion attempt by an attorney.  The women he represented may well have been poorly represented because they were promissed a big payday.  They may well have been exploited by both Watson and their own attorney.  

[Barry McCockinner]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/24/sports/football/deshaun-watson-texas-grand-jury.html

 

[slimjasi]

5 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/24/sports/football/deshaun-watson-texas-grand-jury.html

 

uh oh

[Green Ghost]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/24/sports/football/deshaun-watson-texas-grand-jury.html

 

 

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

uh oh

The story won’t load for me… can either of you give me a synopsis? Thanks.

[Hex]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/24/sports/football/deshaun-watson-texas-grand-jury.html

 

Texans are definitely glad now that Watson isn't their problem anymore

[Beerfish]

A grand jury in another Texas county is meeting to decide if charges will be filed against Deshaun Watson, Tony Buzbee, the attorney for the complainant, confirmed to The Athletic on Thursday.

 

The grand jury is convening in Brazoria County, Texas, south of Houston. The latest proceedings are occurring nearly two weeks after a grand jury in Harris County, which includes Houston, didn't indict Watson on criminal charges related to sexual misconduct allegations against him. Harris County presented nine complaints against Watson to that grand jury.

 

Watson still faces 22 active civil suits accusing him of sexual assault and sexual misconduct in massage appointments. Buzbee is the attorney representing the women in these suits. The 22 active suits allege Watson forced two women to perform oral sex, ejaculated on four women and in front of two others, groped four women and kissed another woman unprompted upon arrival for a massage appointment. Eighteen of the 22 active suits accuse Watson of inappropriately touching women with his penis during massage therapy sessions.

 

One week after the grand jury in Harris County's decision not to prosecute, the Cleveland Browns acquired the quarterback in a trade with the Houston Texans, signing him to a new, fully guaranteed $230 million contract. Browns owners Dee and Jimmy Haslam said in a statement the team spent a "tremendous amount of time" exploring the trade. The Browns discussed the case with Watson for roughly 30 minutes in a meeting of more than two hours, The Athletic's Jason Lloyd reported on Monday.

[Ben Had]

I'm betting maybe ole Baker may have thrown down a few bucks to some of the Texas folks just to share the pain...he's got some and feels disrespected...lol

 

[DetroitRed]

Grand jury declined to charge.  

[T0mShane]

24 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

Grand jury declined to charge.  

Buzbee taking his cases county to county shopping for indictments, just as the founders intended. 

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, DetroitRed said:

Grand jury declined to charge.  

I think the larger point that I would worry about if I were a browns fan is that this will linger 

more grand juries means more questions and more media scrutiny 

[slimjasi]

3 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

 

The story won’t load for me… can either of you give me a synopsis? Thanks.

No charges filed 

[Dwight Englewood]

On 3/21/2022 at 8:19 AM, Biggs said:

Baker is way better than Darnold.  He's not above average.   Throw out last year when he was hurt and go back to 2020.   He was 18th in total yards.  15th in QBR.  30th in completion percentage.  16th in TD's.  8th in INT percentage.  

The Browns had the 3rd best run game in the league and they were ranked 16th in total O because they were ranked 24th in passing yards.

He's best year he was an average NFL QB.  Nothing above average about him. 

The Browns went after Watson because in their division they have two NFL QB's who are elite and needed to substantial upgrade from average to have a shot to compete.  

Watson may well be the 3rd best QB in that division and he's cost may actual hinder their ability to overcome the Ravens and the Bengals.  TBD.  It's a very high risk move.   

Love to see Baker end up in Indy and tone down his act.  If he's an actual upgrade from Wentz Indy would have a great shot to compete with him next year.

Baker is Darnold with an actual supporting cast

 

There’s a reason why no one wants him

[Dwight Englewood]

On 3/24/2022 at 3:14 PM, Hex said:

Texans are definitely glad now that Watson isn't their problem anymore

And they got a farm load of draft picks for him and Davis Mills was the second best rookie qb last season after Mac Jones

[Dwight Englewood]

On 3/20/2022 at 12:31 PM, More Cowbell said:

Baker Mayfield. NFL Mega Bust. Picked first overall and possibly will be traded for a 6th.