Saleh's press conference - Sounds like Flacco does have a shot to be the qb this year

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, oatmeal said:

Seeing how there is talk about Herbert playing

Zach fans I love y’all, I love Zach but I’m A JET FIRST! 

And if I’m looking at this unbiased: Zach is not a franchise QB, no player, NO franchise QB stays out until they are 110% after “minor surgery” 

 

The writing is on the wall people 

Question for you - would Flacco play with rib cartilage issues or after a knee meniscus injury  ? Hmm maybe the writings on the wall for him also 

[Warfish]

20 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Why I still believe in Zach?

- Work Ethic: He has the work ethic and desire to improve that you see from top QBs. He lives for football

- Arm Strength: He can make every throw on the field. This makes it so that defenses have to cover the entire field

- Agility: He is a quick twitch athlete. This helps him avoid sacks and put additional pressure on the defense

- Ball Release: His release is lightning quick.

His ball release and arm strength are elite in my opinion. Agility is good.

What will hold him back?

- Accuracy: He has not been accurate at the NFL level. He was in college. My assumption is that his accuracy issues are due to processing issues

- Processing Speed: this is the big red flag to me and will determine whether he will be below average or above average. Nobody can predict if he will turn the corner with processing defenses etc. 

- Injuries: he has a history of injuries that is concerning

Credit to you, this seems like a fair summery of Zach to-date.

I could quibble with use of "elite", but overall a Gudpost (tm).

[kdels62]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Does it?

Does it?

Probably

It at least means that the teams accepts him as their leader. 

In the end none of it can be known unless the Jets coaching staff strips Wilson of his status as starting QB or until he plays. We know what Flacco is and that’s 1 miracle win away from 0 wins since 2018. 

[ZachEY]

9 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Way to go out on the limb.  How many QB's flourish on bad teams . Its like accepting if you eat a bad diet, smoke, drink, don't exercise you'll probably have health issues. Its not like you have some revolutionary vision that other fans aren't seeing , your just predicting failure with no ramifications of being wrong. Now go pat yourself on the back  if that makes you feel better.  

I'm not looking for a ticker-tape parade, I'm specifically responding to a post claiming I, and others who say 'the bad qb is bad' will have trouble accepting reality.

Actually reading helps.

[Warfish]

Just now, kdels62 said:

Probably

It at least means that the teams accepts him as their leader. 

In the end none of it can be known unless the Jets coaching staff strips Wilson of his status as starting QB or until he plays.

So like I said, Week 4.  Till then it's all speculation at this point.

Just now, kdels62 said:

We know what Flacco is and that’s 1 miracle win away from 0 wins since 2018. 

True enough.

[Hal N of Provo]

4 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Seeing how there is talk about Herbert playing

Zach fans I love y’all, I love Zach but I’m A JET FIRST! 

And if I’m looking at this unbiased: Zach is not a franchise QB, no player, NO franchise QB stays out until they are 110% after “minor surgery” 

 

The writing is on the wall people 

Relax and wait.  It’s silly to give up when he’s going to play soon.   Wait 4 weeks. 

[Claymation]

Just now, ZachEY said:

If I was saying, "the injury to Zach is nothing more than a ruse just to keep Zach out of the lineup" I probably would have said something like, "the injury to Zach is nothing more than a ruse just to keep Zach out of the lineup."

If you can't understand my post, no shame, just ask.

I conceded, you won that discussion. The Jets are intentionally holding Zach out by keeping him out when he is totally healthy. The injury was a phantom injury, most likely a fake one to save face for the FO and the CS.

[kdels62]

5 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Seeing how there is talk about Herbert playing

Zach fans I love y’all, I love Zach but I’m A JET FIRST! 

And if I’m looking at this unbiased: Zach is not a franchise QB, no player, NO franchise QB stays out until they are 110% after “minor surgery” 

 

The writing is on the wall people 

QB on track to comeback when the coaching staff told you he’d come back is a weird indictment. 

We chose to ignore the timetable right after his surgery. 6-8 weeks was the report and we figured 2-4 weeks just because we wanted it. 

[FidelioJet]

11 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

LOL

Herbert is about to play with hanging flesh from his ribs

 

Zachary Wilson is soft period OR this coaching staff don’t believe in the kid. 
 

NO franchise QB sits until he’s 110% don’t be crazy, Phillip Rivers played a season with one knee. 
 

Accept it, the writing is on the wall ?‍♂️

What does this have to do with anything we're talking about?

In a discussion about stats vs. eye-test.

You're talking about the past two QB's for the Chargers...

That is quite the transition.  I mean good for you I guess.

[win4ever]

WTF?  We were a Nick Chubb kneeling down away from 0-2, why the hell is Joe Flacco starting threads.  Now we pulled a miracle out, and all of a sudden, he's in play?  If Saleh starts Flacco over Wilson, he's making the same idiotic mistake toilet Bowles made with Fitzpatrick and Flores made with....Fitzpatrick.  The short term clarity doesn't matter when the long term outlook needs to be deciphered.  

You start Wilson, and you find out one way or another what you have.  If Wilson has it, great.  If Wilson doesn't, you know the area that needs to be addressed.  

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Just so we're clear, who are you referring to here?

Allen and Stafford.

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

It really should show more this year.  More plays that looked good are needed in year 2.  

Find that post yet?

[56mehl56]

Just now, ZachEY said:

I'm not looking for a ticker-tape parade, I'm specifically responding to a post claiming I, and others who say 'the bad qb is bad' will have trouble accepting reality.

Actually reading helps.

I've read enough of your posts to know where your coming from - trust me . Again like I said , your a "realist" who flaunts the contrarian stance with no repercussion when you are wrong. The retort in those cases is - I'm a long suffering Jet fan who just wants to win , so I'm happy. Most of us here are long suffering Jets fans it doesn't mean we have to be jackwagons 90% of the time.  

[jgb]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

Allen and Stafford.

Link to where you called it. Anyone can call it after the fact.

And Stafford had elite production with the Lions so that’s one for me.

[56mehl56]

2 minutes ago, Claymation said:

I conceded, you won that discussion. The Jets are intentionally holding Zach out by keeping him out when he is totally healthy. The injury was a phantom injury, most likely a fake one to save face for the FO and the CS.

I agree with you . Yes and they are rolling the dice of their careers with a 37 year old backup who's won 1 miracle game , makes perfect sense .

[Hal N of Provo]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Credit to you, this seems like a fair summery of Zach to-date.

I could quibble with use of "elite", but overall a Gudpost (tm).

I agree with the list but I’d add against some defenses and looks he played well last year and some he looked lost.  DC’s aren’t dumb and fed him a steady diet of what he hated.  

if he is increasing the defenses he’s comfortable with its a great sign.  If not, it’s horrible. 

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Most QBs bust but in order to know he is a bust he has to play. Unless he’s so bad the team just swallows the loss (ie Hackenberg).

Saying there’s no evidence when there has been no opportunity for there to be evidence begs the fact. By most accounts Wilson was better in training camp than he was last year that might indicate improvement but if you want evidence and an answer he has to play regardless of the low ceiling success of Joe Flacco. 

What if Zach Wilson IS in fact so bad the team is just going to swallow the loss.  Didn't the Cardinals do that for Rosen?

As for evidence, he had a decent training camp, but he didn't come out and blow anyone away.  He was mostly up and down.  I'd expect, in practice... in shorts... for a QB who's truly going to be the guy to look excellent.  You can't be hit, you generally know what the defense is doing, and your coaches are literally right next to you.

I'm also not really arguing against improvement.  I'm arguing against meaningful improvement.  A little better than last year's Zach Wilson is still an objectively terrible QB.

[Hal N of Provo]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Find that post yet?

Are you mentally ill?   WTF is wrong with you? 

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, Claymation said:

I conceded, you won that discussion. The Jets are intentionally holding Zach out by keeping him out when he is totally healthy. The injury was a phantom injury, most likely a fake one to save face for the FO and the CS.

Again, not my point.  I'm glad you've admitted defeat, but I'd also like to win the argument I'm actually making, if you're game for that one too?

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Link to where you called it. Anyone can call it after the fact.

I loved Allen - that's documented here.

didn't get into Stafford at the time - really didn't know a lot about him.

With that said, I wasn't talking about me, just in reference to eye-tests vs. stats.

You guys want to solely rely on stats - and all I'm saying is that's not enough - as it doesn't tell the whole story.n. Especially with this small of a sample size and the issues with the NY Jets last year.

My skill-set as judging players is hit or miss (like I imagine most are).

What I believe about Zach doesn't make it so or that it's going to happen.

[slimjasi]

9 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Got it.  So, for 100% of the time he's been on an NFL field.

I actually don't think anyone of the #CERTIFIEDH8ERZZZ is saying that it's impossible that Zach Wilson will improve.  They're saying, "It's extremely unlikely, and we've not seen any convincing reason to believe it has or will happen."

Right. This is the same discussion over and over again. 

Yes, it's unlikely that Wilson will become a franchise QB, but it's also unlikely that any given QB will become a franchise QB and live up to his hype/expectations. Most guys bust or at least disappoint. And because I'm unaware of any statistical evidence that a rookie season is a significant predictor of future success or failure (good or bad, btw), it makes sense to give him, at the very least, a complete second season before getting too antsy. In general, I think going too gaga about a QB before he's played two seasons isn't wise and some would argue that number should be three. After Baker Mayfield's rookie season, I distinctly remember the experts on here talking about Mayfield as an elite QB. Happens for both good and bad rookie years all the time.  

As for the rest of your post with respect to Sanchez/Darnold/Geno, I get why you are skeptical, but those guys have nothing to do with Wilson or any other current Jet. 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Are you mentally ill?   WTF is wrong with you? 

So says someone who calls someone a liar for 9 months and is physically incapable of saying “my bad” when proven wrong.

This is going to happen every time you respond to me or @ me so stop doing that or go find that quote. Or have a mental health breakthrough and just admit you were wrong this one time on the Internet.

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I've read enough of your posts to know where your coming from - trust me . Again like I said , your a "realist" who flaunts the contrarian stance with no repercussion when you are wrong. The retort in those cases is - I'm a long suffering Jet fan who just wants to win , so I'm happy. Most of us here are long suffering Jets fans it doesn't mean we have to be jackwagons 90% of the time.  

I'm sorry that people being accurate hurts you.  Seems like a you problem, but hey, I'll try to be more sensitive to your feelings here.

[oatmeal]

7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

What does this have to do with anything we're talking about?

In a discussion about stats vs. eye-test.

You're talking about the past two QB's for the Chargers...

That is quite the transition.  I mean good for you I guess.

Okay I understand that cool but this is still facts : 

Herbert is about to play with hanging flesh from his ribs

 

Zachary Wilson is soft period OR this coaching staff don’t believe in the kid. 
 

NO franchise QB sits until he’s 110% don’t be crazy, Phillip Rivers played a season with one knee. 

[Hal N of Provo]

Just now, jgb said:

So says someone who calls someone a liar for 9 months and is physically incapable of saying “my bad” when proven wrong.

Now go look for that quote or STFU.

I already did enough and you proved that if I’m not word for word in my quote you will poo poo it off 

you don’t have a gotcha your nuts 

[56mehl56]

Just now, ZachEY said:

I'm sorry that people being accurate hurts you.  Seems like a you problem, but hey, I'll try to be more sensitive to your feelings here.

Typical response for the sh*t stirrers . I'll debate with posters who present valid arguments . The next you had one will be the first . 

[kdels62]

Just now, ZachEY said:

What if Zach Wilson IS in fact so bad the team is just going to swallow the loss.  Didn't the Cardinals do that for Rosen?

As for evidence, he had a decent training camp, but he didn't come out and blow anyone away.  He was mostly up and down.  I'd expect, in practice... in shorts... for a QB who's truly going to be the guy to look excellent.  You can't be hit, you generally know what the defense is doing, and your coaches are literally right next to you.

I'm also not really arguing against improvement.  I'm arguing against meaningful improvement.  A little better than last year's Zach Wilson is still an objectively terrible QB.

He was consistently good throughout camp. He was significantly better in the only point of comparison (Green and white scrimmage) I had for him. There were no reports about concern that he wasn’t improving or that his improvement was marginal. When Darnold was supposed to improve multiple beat reporters told us he doesn’t look improved, that wasn’t the case this year. 

There is no proof Wilson is being held out other than the team’s concern about long term health. The reports after his surgery of 6-8 weeks of recovery were mostly ignored around here. He’s within that time frame. If or when the team keeps him off the field after their projected first start (Pittsburgh) then there might something to speculate on.

[oatmeal]

8 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

QB on track to comeback when the coaching staff told you he’d come back is a weird indictment. 

We chose to ignore the timetable right after his surgery. 6-8 weeks was the report and we figured 2-4 weeks just because we wanted it. 

Bro he had minor surgery, in a league where QBs play entire seasons on torn ACLs 

 

[LIJetsFan]

15 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Remember a week ago? How was the Joe Flacco eyeball test then? How is the eye ball test if Nick Chubb doesn’t have a brain fart? 

Does it matter that Wilson had a good training camp before his injury or that his teammates named him captain? 

1.  I stipulated that Joe needed a functional OL to play up to being an average QB.  

2. Joe was playing like an average QB which is all I'm saying he is vs a superior Browns team, even before the miracle.  It was a close game almost the entire way.    

3. I simply think Zack is below average for now.  The franchise named him the golden boy so who else could his teammates elect.  

We are all entitled to our opinions. Go Jets! 

[Hal N of Provo]

1 minute ago, oatmeal said:

Bro he had minor surgery, in a league where QBs play entire seasons on torn ACLs 

 

And his bosses don’t want him to play yet because they need time to evaluate him this season.  It’s one of the most important tasks this year and they don’t want to risk that.  

[56mehl56]

2 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Okay I understand that cool but this is still facts : 

Herbert is about to play with hanging flesh from his ribs

 

Zachary Wilson is soft period OR this coaching staff don’t believe in the kid. 
 

NO franchise QB sits until he’s 110% don’t be crazy, Phillip Rivers played a season with one knee. 

Big difference , the Chargers have a real chance at making some noise this year , they can't afford to have a backup QB with 1 win in 5 years taking the helm. 

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Right. This is the same discussion over and over again. 

Yes, it's unlikely that Wilson will become a franchise QB, but it's also unlikely that any given QB will become a franchise QB and live up to his hype/expectations. Most guys bust or at least disappoint. And because I'm unaware of any statistical evidence that a rookie season is a significant predictor of future success or failure (good or bad, btw), it makes sense to give him, at the very least, a complete second season before getting too antsy. In general, I think going too gaga about a QB before he's played two seasons isn't wise and some would argue that number should be three. After Baker Mayfield's rookie season, I distinctly remember the experts on here talking about Mayfield as an elite QB. Happens for both good and bad rookie years all the time.  

As for the rest of your post with respect to Sanchez/Darnold/Geno, I get why you are skeptical, but those guys have nothing to do with Wilson or any other current Jet. 

I don't have the data, but I remember seeing it here, that no one who was as bad as Wilson in their rookie year has ever gone on to be good.  The suggestion being, there's not a correlation that could be a predictor of future success, but there is a bar which, if unachieved, makes the already unlikely probability of becoming a FQB, almost, if not complete non-existent.

[FTL Jet Fan]

As soon as the  coach says publicly that the QB needs to be ready mentally, especially in NY that’s a major concern. The kid has the talent but don’t know if Utah can cut it in NY.

Does anyone think maybe some of the CS whispered in some of the Vets ear about getting Zach elected Captain? Doesn’t seem like the team believes in Wilson. I can easily see how his personality wouldn’t go over well with people. Just my opinion. 

 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

I already did enough and you proved that if I’m not word for word in my quote you will poo poo it off 

you don’t have a gotcha your nuts 

You’re sicker than I thought if you believe a quote by me saying “I didn’t say he doesn’t do anything right” proves your assertion that I said “he has no positive traits.”

You really need to stop commenting on others’ mental health.

[oatmeal]

17 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Question for you - would Flacco play with rib cartilage issues or after a knee meniscus injury  ? Hmm maybe the writings on the wall for him also 

Christ is Flacco a alleged franchise qb?