Saleh's press conference - Sounds like Flacco does have a shot to be the qb this year

[JustInFudge]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

“Ramp it up” is just a way to say he’s not playing Wilson this week. You “ramp up” a pitcher coming off of injury by giving him progressively more pitches in warmups.

Also leaves the door open if Flacco stays hot, the Jets .500 or better, for Wilson had a set back "ramping up".

 

[LIJetsFan]

10 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Because the Jets believe Zach Wilson is QB 1 and gives them the best chance to win.

 

From what I've seen this remains to be seen.  In the past, QB's used to sit for 1-2 years to learn the game and that was when top draft pick earned a boat load more money then they do today.  Maybe we should learn from the past and let Zack sit and learn.   

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

We have copious video evidence that Zach is moving laterally and running without a brace and without physical limitations, though. The only thing they could be worried about physically is his ability to get hit, which isn’t going to happen in practice anyway

Even if this is true - What we don't see is what's happening that night,  is there pain?  How much is he working through? Is there swelling? etc.

When they say fully healed - and it seems, right or wrong, that's their commitment and they're sticking to it - that means being able to move fully and then being pain free afterward.

Let me be clear, I'm not advocating this course of action, I would rather see him on the field.  But it does seem to be the choice JD has made. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Claymation said:

Outside of the last 2 minutes of the game, Joe Flacco has been ordinary this season.

"Ordinary" is better than we've had for the last 7 years at the QB position, so....

[oatmeal]

8 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

From what I've seen this remains to be seen.  In the past, QB's used to sit for 1-2 years to learn the game and that was when top draft pick earned a boat load more money then they do today.  Maybe we should learn from the past and let Zack sit and learn.   

Jordan love has been sitting and sucking sitting is overrated 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

If the Jets lose this week, Zach will start in Pitt.  Win and Flaccid stays in.  Thats how they are going to do it.

^^^ I'll take the opposite of whatever Joe predicts

[The Crusher]

35 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

They’re going to **** around, start Flacco the next two weeks, then drop Zach back in to play Miami, @Packers, @Denver, Belichick twice, and the Bills. It’s a no-win situation for Wilson at this point.

It’s not likely to happen but I wonder if that still happens if they win both games? Not likely we win both games, probably won’t win , but if we did I wonder of that puts pause in them. 

[T0mShane]

32 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

Let's all imagine for a second that we all like and believe Saleh.  In this case if he says Flacco is an NFL starter & that as a HC he is looking to win now then why wouldn't Zack have to earn his job back?

Seems to me thinking Zack SHOULD be handed the job back are the ones who doubt Saleh.  I'm not one of his fans but I am hoping that he is more qualified than I credit.   

 

            

Absolutely. I don’t understand the impulse among fans to shoehorn Wilson back in there. He’s done nothing to earn that job, at all, but he’s shown us a lot of reasons why he shouldn’t have that job. 

[TuscanyTile2]

I will be very surprised if Zach isn't the week 4 starter, regardless of how Flacco performs this week (even if we beat the Bengals)

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Absolutely. I don’t understand the impulse among fans to shoehorn Wilson back in there at all. He’s done nothing to earn that job, at all, but he’s shown us a lot of reasons why he shouldn’t have that job. 

He was drafted #2 overall.  That's all it takes.  

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Jordan love has been sitting and sucking sitting is overrated 

Having a quality veteran alternative is decidedly NOT overrated, however.

The Jets draft QB's high and then install exactly 0 viable Plan B's.  It's so stupid. 

[Jetsfan80]

14 hours ago, GangGreened said:

Not trying to be a d*ck, but really? Of course the offense was built around Wilson and they are going to say that in August.

Missed this.  Love how @FidelioJet used a quote from August to try to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Wilson is the best QB on the roster.  lmao.  

Any actual evidence to provide, Captain?

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Missed this.  Love how @FidelioJet used a quote from August to try to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Wilson is the best QB on the roster.  lmao.  

Any actual evidence to provide, Captain?

He had that good practice (8 throws!) on his birthday

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

He was drafted #2 overall.  That's all it takes.  

That can’t and shouldn’t mean anything at this point. 

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, Claymation said:

Outside of the last 2 minutes of the game, Joe Flacco has been ordinary this season.

After two weeks, Joe Flacco is currently ranked:

• 1st in Pass Attempts (103)
• 21st in Completion % (61.2%)
• 3rd in Passing Yards (616)
• 8th in Passing TD's (5)
• 12th in TD Pass % (4.9%)
• 10th (Tied) in fewest INT's (1)
• 4th in lowest INT % (1.0%)
• 28th in Yards Per Attempt (6.0)
• 13th in QB Rating (90.1)
• 10th (Tied) for lowest Sacked % (4.6%)

For comparison, Zach Wilson in 2021 was:

• 28th in Pass Attempts (383)
• 31st in Completion % (55.6%)
• 30th in Passing Yards (2,334)
• 31st (Tied) in Passing TD's (9)
• 29th in TD Pass % (2.3%)
• 17th most in INT's (11)
• 6th worst in INT % (2.9%)
• 30th in Yards Per Attempt (6.1)
• 31st in QB Rating (69.7)
• 2nd worst in Sacked % (10.3%)

Now, a few points:

1. We have not seen Zack in live-fire with the new Offensive skill players.  Because he is hurt.  Again.
2. Flacco will surely taper off in his production rates, he almost assuredly cannot maintain top 10-12 rates of production all season.

With that said, Flacco's first two weeks is the first real competent QB play we've seen since the White/Johnson/Flacco period last year, or even since 2015 or longer before that.   If the staff has any doubts about Wilson, health, mentally, preparedness, or even just expected levels of production, I could see why he might be held back till Flacco burns out whatever he's got left this year, as long as he is winning.

But ultimately, I expect what Saleh said, that when Zach is ready, Zach will play, regardless of Flacco. 

Keep this in mind tho, if Flacco continues to play well, and win, and we're competing......and Zach is put in, and does not do well, and/or we're not competing, that.....will be some drama.  Serious drama.  Just be ready for it. 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, T0mShane said:

He had that good practice (8 throws!) on his birthday

Meanwhile Saleh's like "Flacco will start this week then who knows?  Maybe Week 5.  Maybe the rest of the season.  Who's to say?  No one can predict the future.  And what is reality anyways?"

[Jetsfan80]

15 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

He was drafted #2 overall.  That's all it takes.  

So was Ryan Leaf.  Maybe that guy should keep getting chances too.  

[FidelioJet]

29 minutes ago, Biggs said:

This post is complete nonsense.  I love Zach, I want him to play when he's ready to run the O.   Zach was having a solid camp last year.  It was rainbows and skittles last year until he saw live NFL action.  

Zach was promoted as a ready to start QB by the entire organization from day 1.  Hard worker, understood the playbook, looked great in practice.   At some point there are real results and real consequences.   The Jets and Zach created a  narrative that's not easy to walk back.  We may not like the way they are walking it back but there is evidence that's exactly what they are doing for very good reason.

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Missed this.  Love how @FidelioJet used a quote from August to try to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Wilson is the best QB on the roster.  lmao.  

Any actual evidence to provide, Captain?

Not shadow of a doubt but it's more than the conspiracy theorist have..

Show me something where someone has said something else...Anything else.

I'm pointing to something that says - the NY Jets believe Zach is better than Flacco.  Beyond the fact that he's QB1.  

If someone shows me something that says otherwise I would love to see it.

 

[doitny]

5 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

He was drafted #2 overall.  That's all it takes.  

and thats where you get the team to hate Zach. it was one thing when they though Flacco was a bad old man but despite some on this boards best efforts to discount how well Flacco has played the team has seen it for themselves.

NFL players have the shortest playing span of the 4 major sports and no guaranteed contracts. they dont have time to possibly throw away a season to see what someone is. 

and the funny thing is , is that you guys need to see Zach now. that you need 14 games to see if he is the future. regardless of how you feel about Flacco he has not played OMG bad for you guys to be sick of watching him. why cant 12 or even 10 games be enough to know? i expect him to struggle a game or two too but those are plenty of games to see what he is.

i am not given Flacco those games, he has to earn them. its almost like you guys are scared that Flacco will keep playing well and wining some games that the more that happens the harder it is to play Zach.

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Not shadow of a doubt but it's more than the conspiracy theorist have..

Show me something where someone has said something else...Anything else.

I'm pointing to something that says - the NY Jets believe Zach is better than Flacco.  Beyond the fact that he's QB1.  

If someone shows me something that says otherwise I would love to see it.

 

I don't think any of us will know anything for sure till Week 4.

If Zach plays, we'll know.  If Zach doesn't play...

We may not not what him not playing means in detail, but it will definitely mean something.

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Not shadow of a doubt but it's more than the conspiracy theorist have..

Show me something where someone has said something else...Anything else.

I'm pointing to something that says - the NY Jets believe Zach is better than Flacco.  Beyond the fact that he's QB1. 

If someone shows me something that says otherwise I would love to see it.

 

I dunno, maybe use actual facts rather than a meaningless August quote?  

As for the bold, how about a 300+ yard game and 4 TDs?  You know, actual data that suggests Flacco might be the best QB on the roster?

You can certainly argue, perhaps, that the Jets appear to still be COMMITTED to Zach Wilson.  Though even this take is a bit shaky at best.  But you CANNOT argue in any way, shape or form that Wilson is the BEST QB on the roster.  Not a chance.  He's done absolutely nothing to date to suggest this is true, and the burden of proof is on him.  

[FootballLove]

3 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Yet, watching Buffalo yesterday we are in another decade of playing for second place and the long shot at a wildcard. So at the end of the day it’s more about watching entertaining games than winning championships. 

It sure looks that way.

It will be interesting to see if Tua and Tyreek can continue the magic they just had against the Ravens. The Fish are having the same conversation we are.

Either way, to compete with the Bills of the world we're gonna need an offense that can routinely rack up 30+ points against good Ds. Is Zack and Garrett/Moore our Tua/Tyreek? Let's see how Tue does Sunday at home against the Bills.  

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, doitny said:

and thats where you get the team to hate Zach. it was one thing when they though Flacco was a bad old man but despite some on this boards best efforts to discount how well Flacco has played the team has seen it for themselves.

NFL players have the shortest playing span of the 4 major sports and no guaranteed contracts. they dont have time to possibly throw away a season to see what someone is. 

and the funny thing is , is that you guys need to see Zach now. that you need 14 games to see if he is the future. regardless of how you feel about Flacco he has not played OMG bad for you guys to be sick of watching him. why cant 12 or even 10 games be enough to know? i expect him to struggle a game or two too but those are plenty of games to see what he is.

i am not given Flacco those games, he has to earn them. its almost like you guys are scared that Flacco will keep playing well and wining some games that the more that happens the harder it is to play Zach.

The players are there to do their jobs, regardless of who the QB is.  Whatever is in the team's best interest is what will rule the day.   The team might decide playing Flacco is in their best interest, though I highly doubt it.

I fully expect Zach to start week 4.  

[docdhc]

27 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Absolutely. I don’t understand the impulse among fans to shoehorn Wilson back in there. He’s done nothing to earn that job, at all, but he’s shown us a lot of reasons why he shouldn’t have that job. 

He’s a high number 1 draft pick on a rookie contract that has to be fully evaluated before moving on.  Flacco is certainly not the franchise QB going forward and the Jets aren’t Super Bowl contenders trying to win now at all costs. You may have made your mind up that Zach will never be good but I don’t think the Jets have reached that decision yet so Wilson needs to play a significant amount of the season. How else will they know what they have before starting at square 1again and drafting another QB?

[FidelioJet]

43 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

From what I've seen this remains to be seen.  In the past, QB's used to sit for 1-2 years to learn the game and that was when top draft pick earned a boat load more money then they do today.  Maybe we should learn from the past and let Zack sit and learn.   

Look, I don't disagree with this at all.  

Should Zach have sat for at least a portion of his rookie year - I think it was clear he wasn't ready.

But we saw real progress from Zach throughout the year - and we saw it in the areas where he struggled the most.  

I would, personally, like to see that Zach with the talent the Jets have now.

I actually have little doubt once Zach is back - it's going to shut a lot of people up around here.

 

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

I dunno, maybe use actual facts rather than a meaningless August quote?  

As for the bold, how about a 300+ yard game and 4 TDs?  You know, actual data that suggests Flacco might be the best QB on the roster?

You can certainly argue, perhaps, that the Jets appear to still be COMMITTED to Zach Wilson.  Though even this take is a bit shaky at best.  But you CANNOT argue in any way, shape or form that Wilson is the BEST QB on the roster.  Not a chance.  He's done absolutely nothing to date to suggest this is true, and the burden of proof is on him.  

What facts are you talking about?

Again, can you have your opinion - you're surely welcome to it.

But just because you feel that way - doesn't mean that's the way the Jets organization does.   

By all accounts they believe Zach is the best QB on the roster.  We have statements of them saying that. We have none saying otherwise.  

So your speculation is fine and referencing a good 1:55 from 37 year old (1-7) Joe Flacco isn't proving the "facts" you think they are...

[slimjasi]

34 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Having a quality veteran alternative is decidedly NOT overrated, however.

The Jets draft QB's high and then install exactly 0 viable Plan B's.  It's so stupid. 

Well, if Flacco can put together a couple of good performances in a row, maybe he is a “viable plan B”

Time will tell.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

What facts are you talking about?

300+ yards and 4 TDs.

 

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

By all accounts they believe Zach is the best QB on the roster.  We have statements of them saying that. We have none saying otherwise.  

Saying they BELIEVE he's the best QB on the roster is one thing (and those quotes were from August, not September).  You claimed that Zach Wilson IS the best QB on the roster, which is quite another.  And there is 0 evidence of that.  He isn't the best QB on the roster just because you say he is, Cap'n.  

[56mehl56]

3 hours ago, Biggs said:

I thought Zach should start as a rookie.  I was dead wrong.  Zach should have sat last year with maybe some mop up duty.   Zach in one pre-season game this year looked horrible.  Zach got hurt, same injury as last year and had surgery.  Minor microscopic surgery.   If he was a starting NFL QB he would have started week 1.  He's not ready.

I'm not suggesting anything more than Zach Wilson isn't ready to start and it's because he doesn't get it yet.  That's not an indictment of Zach or hate of Zach.  That's reality.  The players know it and so does the coaching staff.   

That doesn't mean Zach won't be a great NFL QB.  That doesn't mean Zach sucks.  It just means he's not ready to be a good NFL QB and the expectation for the NY Jets this year is to win football games and develop the roster. 

The injury was real the reason he's not starting is he's not mentally ready.  In other words he can't run the O.  

He threw 3 passes total. Was not the same injury as last year but possibly related , he had a PCL strain last year this year a bone bruise and a slight meniscus tear. 

 

All conjecture on the last statement , because Saleh said he needs to be physically and mentally ready doesn't mean he can't run the O , big stretch there. 

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, docdhc said:

He’s a high number 1 draft pick on a rookie contract that has to be fully evaluated before moving on.  Flacco is certainly not the franchise QB going forward and the Jets aren’t Super Bowl contenders trying to win now at all costs. You may have made your mind up that Zach will never be good but I don’t think the Jets have reached that decision yet so Wilson needs to play a significant amount of the season. How else will they know what they have before starting at square 1again and drafting another QB?

They have reams of data showing what Zach can and cannot do, and they compile more every day in practice. I don’t see why it’s necessary to subject the rest of the team to the struggles of his learning process. 

[Barry McCockinner]

 

[Biggs]

8 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

He threw 3 passes total. Was not the same injury as last year but possibly related , he had a PCL strain last year this year a bone bruise and a slight meniscus tear. 

 

All conjecture on the last statement , because Saleh said he needs to be physically and mentally ready doesn't mean he can't run the O , big stretch there. 

He threw 5 passes.   His 2 misses were an INT and an easy pitch and catch into the flat that wasn't close.   

Both injuries could well be related.  A slight meniscus tear is a very minor injury.   Shaving the meniscus is a very minor surgery.  There are plenty of NFL players, playing football with slight miniscus tears.  It can be painful, it can also go unnoticed for long periods.  They don't repair the tear they shave it back. 

Zach looked exactly like he did last year in his preseason game this year.  Not ready to start in the NFL.  That's not conjecture that's obvious.  

[Morrissey]

It's pretty amazing some of you still trust a word that comes out of Saleh's mouth.

[FidelioJet]

12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

300+ yards and 4 TDs.

 

Saying they BELIEVE he's the best QB on the roster is one thing (and those quotes were from August, not September).  You claimed that Zach Wilson IS the best QB on the roster, which is quite another.  And there is 0 evidence of that.  He isn't the best QB on the roster just because you say he is, Cap'n.  

My opinion is my opinion.  I've seen both of them play - and my assessment is Zach is the better QB (and it's not even close)

But it doesn't really matter - what matters is what the Jets think.  And from everything we've seen or heard they believe Zach is the better QB too.  

Continue to point to a really good 1:55 to justify your position - I think that's great.   Not going to change anything.