This is a pause

[SuicidalSince98]

3 hours ago, football guy said:

A few things: 

1) I wouldn’t call it disciplinary, but if Zach didn’t snap at the reporters this probably doesn’t happen. Mike LaFleur wanted to give Mike White an opportunity because he feels those 3-to-5 easy completions per game will be the difference, but Saleh shut that down at halftime. LaFleur and Wilson have a solid relationship but things have started to become testy because Wilson felt like he’s been doing everything he’s being asked and LaFleur/Calabrese have not been up front about their dissatisfaction with the breakdown in footwork (likely due winning being a good deodorant coupled with the ramifications such an admission would take + Saleh’s emphasis on positive reinforcement). LaFleur is big on fundamentals but more so how it impacts plays than actually coaching/hammering them and Rob Calabrese is basically being groomed into a “passing game coordinator” - they do not have the time to work on footwork. They had hoped it would get corrected over the bye week—which is totally unrealistic. Saleh is big with mental health and when he saw how Zach handled post-game, the reaction inside/outside the building, and his perception of Zach’s mindset in their conversation on Monday morning are all factors that led to him wanting the brutally honest answers from his staff. I didn’t legitimately believe he would pull the trigger, but he bought into the reset plan and Douglas/Woody were OK with it, green lighting the change. 

2) outside of team drills, Zach is working closely with offensive assistant Billy VandeMerkt on his footwork, with overtime work with MLF and Calabrese after practice. He’ll likely have this regiment for 2 weeks, return as backup against the Bills, and possibly back in the starting lineup by Detroit depending how things go (if they’re outperforming expectations there will not be a shakeup). Zach is expected to also work on his own with John Beck, but he won’t be hired by the team. 

3) let’s just make this clear right now: acquiring Jimmy Garoppolo/Derek Carr for $40+ million per season next offseason is a pipe dream. As I’ve maintained: this administration is unorthodox and they truly do not care about stats or historical trends. I think they realize their failings in Zach’s development, but fans who think they will outright give up on him for someone else are mistaken. They believe in his ability and are not going to be awarded the easy way out absent a Super Bowl run, which would validate the coach’s formula, the ability this current team has, and give the coaching staff more credibility to decide whether to add a ready QB who will help compete for multiple championships without paying the price for the Zach Wilson failure. Most likely: they will be forced to exhaust all options to get the most out of Wilson… that could be anything from a change in QB coach, coordinator, etc. 

4) The most likely result to come out of this: Mike White/Joe Flacco play for at least 2 weeks. Winning keeps them in, losing will not. Zach likely returns against Detroit. It’s impossible to know how he performs to close out the season, but unless he were to show further regression the likely result will be Case Keenum… Gardner Minshew… Geno Smith… Sam Darnold as competition with Zach next offseason, with Mike White a possibility to return as a stable QB2/3. Aka likely a disaster. 

 

Everyone is 20-20 in hindsight, but I can’t help but be disgusted with how this has gone. I know that fans on here will say “I was right”, but it truly is not that simple. Zach has all the tools, and while his play has not been great and he deserves blame for that, the fact that it has came to this is massive endictment on the offensive coaches. The lack of veteran leadership on the offensive coaching staff who can hammer the fundamentals (specifically in the QB and WR rooms) is why it came to this, because we all know footwork and timing has been an issue for the QBs/WRs for 2 years now yet no one had the balls (or ability) to step up and say “this kid needs a little more time.” It did improve over the offseason, but after the injury the coaching staff still had the opportunity to be brutally honest and hold him out additional time to make sure it was perfect. That did not happen. Instead, they they went 5-1 with him at QB despite the concerns, and now we’re here. 

It’s a QB-driven league and since I’ve been a diehard I’ve watched the Jets draft and fail at developing 5 talented QBs across 8 HC/GM combinations. No single administration should be blamed for the failures of the former, but the fact that they finally landed a good GM + HC, a talented QB and loaded the team with talent, yet still botch the development of said QB is just awful. The solution was simple: simplify the game plan for the struggling QB/WRs and hammer the details. Instead? Keep the offense as-is, bench the QB to work on his footwork, and “hope” that works. This organization simply does not understand how to ignore the noise, stay the course, and develop a QB in this market. 

This staff is clueless. The problem is not footwork. It’s 100% mental. An NFL qb needs to make the easy completions regardless of footwork. If there is any mechanical reason for his misses its related to grip and how he side arm spin throws instead of just throwing them. Freaking terrifying. 

[JetsRay]

7 hours ago, slats said:

Deactivating Zach, rather than just benching him, is a disciplinary move. His presser was a disaster, and while Saleh tried to sugarcoat that a little bit, it’s obvious that it played a part in it. I do think that if Zach took some responsibility last Sunday that he would probably be starting this one - albeit with a quick hook waiting, his play was pitiful, after all. 
 
But I also believe Saleh when he says he wants to get Zach back in the starting lineup this year. I found it interesting, too, that he mentioned being in touch with Seattle, specifically regarding Geno. Did he pick up a few pointers for dealing with entitled, immature yet talented QBs? It’s clear that they’ve shifted from coddling him to giving him some tough love. He ran the scout team yesterday. That’s some serious humbling coming down upon his head. 

For now, it’s Mike White’s job to lose, though. I expect them to ride the hot hand and, if Zach gets Wally Pipped, so be it. But they need to figure out if it’s going to be White, Wilson, or none of the above before this season is over. This team is too good, too soon to screw around at QB. Going into next year with the two of them and, say, a Gardiner Minshew would just be more wheel-spinning, imho. My gut feeling is that with seven games left, Zach will make his way back on the field, as much as the fan base may be done with him. They just have too much invested in him. In the meantime, though, I will be rooting for Mike White to make that move as difficult as possible. 

This is a good take.

Sometimes, part of developing a player, any player, but especially a QB, is not just the x's and o's, but for young players, it's about maturity and learning how to be a leader.

For a 22 yr old Zach certainly has all the tools, including how to be a leader and knowing what to say. Until this past weekend, he's been pretty good with the media and being self-accountable.

A 22 yr old facing scrutiny and the pressure of defeat along with an unrelentless arrogant media is a lot to take on, this is a good learning moment and also part of his development as a player.

He is still the future, it is far too early to give up on that.

[JetsRay]

42 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

This staff is clueless. The problem is not footwork. It’s 100% mental. An NFL qb needs to make the easy completions regardless of footwork. If there is any mechanical reason for his misses its related to grip and how he side arm spin throws instead of just throwing them. Freaking terrifying. 

This is hilariously inaccurate!

[UntouchableCrew]

7 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

He’ll have a full off-season to try to get his mechanics squared away and mentally figure out why he is missing easy passes (mechanics aside) plus freezing up when guys are breaking open.

 

Wasn’t that the plan this past offseason? 

[UntouchableCrew]

4 hours ago, football guy said:

3) let’s just make this clear right now: acquiring Jimmy Garoppolo/Derek Carr for $40+ million per season next offseason is a pipe dream. As I’ve maintained: this administration is unorthodox and they truly do not care about stats or historical trends. I think they realize their failings in Zach’s development, but fans who think they will outright give up on him for someone else are mistaken. They believe in his ability and are not going to be awarded the easy way out absent a Super Bowl run, which would validate the coach’s formula, the ability this current team has, and give the coaching staff more credibility to decide whether to add a ready QB who will help compete for multiple championships without paying the price for the Zach Wilson failure. Most likely: they will be forced to exhaust all options to get the most out of Wilson… that could be anything from a change in QB coach, coordinator, etc. 

 

I think you’re underestimating the fact that their jobs could easily be on the line in 2023. They’d be morons to bet on Zach Wilson with everything on the line. They’ll do whatever they need to to ensure the highest probability of success.

[More Cowbell]

7 hours ago, slats said:

Deactivating Zach, rather than just benching him, is a disciplinary move. His presser was a disaster, and while Saleh tried to sugarcoat that a little bit, it’s obvious that it played a part in it. I do think that if Zach took some responsibility last Sunday that he would probably be starting this one - albeit with a quick hook waiting, his play was pitiful, after all. 
 
But I also believe Saleh when he says he wants to get Zach back in the starting lineup this year. I found it interesting, too, that he mentioned being in touch with Seattle, specifically regarding Geno. Did he pick up a few pointers for dealing with entitled, immature yet talented QBs? It’s clear that they’ve shifted from coddling him to giving him some tough love. He ran the scout team yesterday. That’s some serious humbling coming down upon his head. 

For now, it’s Mike White’s job to lose, though. I expect them to ride the hot hand and, if Zach gets Wally Pipped, so be it. But they need to figure out if it’s going to be White, Wilson, or none of the above before this season is over. This team is too good, too soon to screw around at QB. Going into next year with the two of them and, say, a Gardiner Minshew would just be more wheel-spinning, imho. My gut feeling is that with seven games left, Zach will make his way back on the field, as much as the fan base may be done with him. They just have too much invested in him. In the meantime, though, I will be rooting for Mike White to make that move as difficult as possible. 

Zach ran the scout team? Holy ?. That is punishment.  Saleh may be saying we want him to reset but right now he is extracting blood from him. 

[SuicidalSince98]

10 minutes ago, JetsRay said:

This is hilariously inaccurate!

Why ? 

[Spoot-Face]

6 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

There is no way Garappolo comes to the Jets to compete with Wilson for the starting job.  If he doesn't sign with SF again long-term, he will have his pick of numerous offers (Indy, Las Vegas, Washington, NYG, Atlanta, NO, Seattle).  He's going to go somewhere where he can sign a long term deal as the clear starting QB. He is not going to go somewhere where he gets "Lanced" again.  The Jets will be an option if and only if Wilson is out of the picture.

If Garappolo doesn't believe he can beat out one of the worst QBs in the league, then I don't want him, lol.

Unless you're suggesting it'd be a sham competition with JDs (or whoever) finger on the scale in Zach's favor, which would be classic Jetsy, so not out of the picture, lol.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

50 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Wasn’t that the plan this past offseason? 

I hear you..

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 hour ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

This staff is clueless. The problem is not footwork. It’s 100% mental. An NFL qb needs to make the easy completions regardless of footwork. If there is any mechanical reason for his misses its related to grip and how he side arm spin throws instead of just throwing them. Freaking terrifying. 

Agree, it’s more mental than mechanics.  These are easy throws for some NFL QBs sitting down.

And that is why you should agree he needs a reset because it won’t be fixed by continuing to trot him out there.

I’ll be surprised if we don’t start hearing the term yips more and more.  Above and beyond this or maybe related, he seems skittish to even throw the ball sometimes.  Frozen almost.

[SuicidalSince98]

1 minute ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Agree, it’s more mental than mechanics.  These are easy throws for some NFL QBs sitting down.

And that is why you should agree he needs a reset because it won’t be fixed by continuing to trot him out there.

I’ll be surprised if we don’t start hearing the term yips more and more.  Above and beyond this or maybe related, he seems skittish to even throw the ball sometimes.  Frozen almost.

Wilson needs a reset, and we also need to reset our offensive coaching staff. 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 hour ago, JetsRay said:

This is hilariously inaccurate!

I don’t know why you believe that.  Other QBs have had issues with mechanics.

I have no mechanics and can hit some of these pitch and catch throws.  

Yuu just don’t see an NFL Qb missing so badly or failing to even throw the pass.
 

[T0mShane]

5 hours ago, football guy said:

I know that fans on here will say “I was right”, but

[PorP]

8 hours ago, Lith said:

My ideal QB room heading into next season is Wilson, solid vet (Minshew, Jimmy G, Heinecke, Geno) and a day 2/day 3 rookie (Hendon Hooker).   Let Zach and the vet compete in camp and bring the rookie along slowly.  I also think which vet we sign could be an indication of what our staff truly thinks of Zach.  They go all in for a guy like Jimmy G at $25M+ he is gonna be the starter and Zach either gets traded or backs up.

Mike White can change that all up depending on what he does over the next few weeks.  

Can't believe I'm the first to say it but.....

Zach and hooker in the same locker room???

[doitny]

1 hour ago, Spoot-Face said:

If Garappolo doesn't believe he can beat out one of the worst QBs in the league, then I don't want him, lol.

Unless you're suggesting it'd be a sham competition with JDs (or whoever) finger on the scale in Zach's favor, which would be classic Jetsy, so not out of the picture, lol.

of course it was. after what i have seen i dont believe Zach really beat out Flacco and or White. 

[Charlie Brown]

9 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

There is a true lack of appreciation as to just how good Gardner Minshew is at playing the position of QB. Philly traded for him as an insurance policy for Hurts, than Hurts took off this season and the Eagles are a SB contender which became unwilling to trade its starting calibre backup QB. 

Check the film. Check his stats. Minshew is better than half the current starting QBs and he’s only 26. 

THANK YOU!!!

Minshew is a very very good QB.  I would say a top 14ish QB

[Mogglez]

I’m not going to step on anyone’s toes here, but I vehemently disagree with the notion that the Jets have made this worse, or that anything QB related for next year is a pipe dream.  There is, also, a very good reason that White was promoted a few weeks ago, and I will leave it at that. The decision to bench Zach was not a rash decision based off of one word said in a post game press conference.

[T0mShane]

26 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I’m not going to step on anyone’s toes here, but I vehemently disagree with the notion that the Jets have please this worse, or that anything QB related for next year is a pipe dream.  There is, also, a very good reason that White was promoted a few weeks ago, and I will leave it at that. The decision to bench Zach was not a rash decision based off of one word said in a post game press conference.

Tell me your reaction when your source told you that Zach Wilson was a locker room pariah. Did you think of me at all? Were you like, “I should text Tom and mend that fence. Poor Tom, whose character I have shat upon, whose instincts were pure and true, but whom I slandered in both name and spirit”? 

[Paradis]

10 hours ago, slats said:

Deactivating Zach, rather than just benching him, is a disciplinary move. His presser was a disaster, and while Saleh tried to sugarcoat that a little bit, it’s obvious that it played a part in it. I do think that if Zach took some responsibility last Sunday that he would probably be starting this one - albeit with a quick hook waiting, his play was pitiful, after all. 
 
But I also believe Saleh when he says he wants to get Zach back in the starting lineup this year. I found it interesting, too, that he mentioned being in touch with Seattle, specifically regarding Geno. Did he pick up a few pointers for dealing with entitled, immature yet talented QBs? It’s clear that they’ve shifted from coddling him to giving him some tough love. He ran the scout team yesterday. That’s some serious humbling coming down upon his head. 

For now, it’s Mike White’s job to lose, though. I expect them to ride the hot hand and, if Zach gets Wally Pipped, so be it. But they need to figure out if it’s going to be White, Wilson, or none of the above before this season is over. This team is too good, too soon to screw around at QB. Going into next year with the two of them and, say, a Gardiner Minshew would just be more wheel-spinning, imho. My gut feeling is that with seven games left, Zach will make his way back on the field, as much as the fan base may be done with him. They just have too much invested in him. In the meantime, though, I will be rooting for Mike White to make that move as difficult as possible. 

Absolutely disciplinary. Performance management 101.  Scout team? Holy sh*t bruh lol. 

my 20 years in the field would tell you that expecting him to turn around over the next 6-8 weeks is unlikely at best. Maybe he plays, but the path to long term correction would be best served if he spends the rest of the season digging ditches and has to earn his seat at the table next summer 

[Mogglez]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Tell me your reaction when your source told you that Zach Wilson was a locker room pariah. Did you think of me at all? Were you like, “I should text Tom and mend that fence. Poor Tom, whose character I have shat upon, whose instincts were pure and true, but whom I slandered in both name and spirit”? 

Lmao, Zach was a “good guy” up until Sunday, and after his apology, is gonna have to earn that rep back.

I’ll let you in on something in a bit, keep an eye on your PMs.

[Paradis]

10 hours ago, Lith said:

My ideal QB room heading into next season is Wilson, solid vet (Minshew, Jimmy G, Heinecke, Geno) and a day 2/day 3 rookie (Hendon Hooker).   Let Zach and the vet compete in camp and bring the rookie along slowly.  I also think which vet we sign could be an indication of what our staff truly thinks of Zach.  They go all in for a guy like Jimmy G at $25M+ he is gonna be the starter and Zach either gets traded or backs up.

Mike White can change that all up depending on what he does over the next few weeks.  

Matt Flynn money and Rus starts anyway. 

i think the only possible move forward is to pay someone like you said to come and start - and tell Wilson he has to out play that guy to start games. It’s possible - but that also would mean that Zach ACTUALLY becomes the guy he was sold to be. He’d have that guy to beat out a JG.

lol Geno. Funny, but his play rn —> we’re in 1st place comfortably. That scenario would either be a total circus or, embraced as a coming home moment. No in between. 

[SuicidalSince98]

39 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I’m not going to step on anyone’s toes here, but I vehemently disagree with the notion that the Jets have made this worse, or that anything QB related for next year is a pipe dream.  There is, also, a very good reason that White was promoted a few weeks ago, and I will leave it at that. The decision to bench Zach was not a rash decision based off of one word said in a post game press conference.

Can you just spill the beans? Why the secrecy 

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I’ll let you in on something in a bit, keep an eye on your

[Mogglez]

3 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Can you just spill the beans? Why the secrecy 

It’s nothing personal towards anyone currently here in particular.  I have zero issues with anyone posting here nowadays.  I just don’t want it to be on the main board anymore. Something that happened during TC really sucked the fun out of it for me.

I have always said that my PMs are open, as long as it doesn’t lead to hostility there.  

[Integrity28]

We’d be 8-2 right now if Zach didn’t hand 2 wins to the Patriots, if all teams.

He was benched for playing awful. Mike White was elevated a few weeks ago in case it came to this. His fundamentals are atrocious, this was a valid explanation.

He was deactivated completely as a message regarding his leadership. 

Both this need a reset and improvement. Not one or the other.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

4 hours ago, football guy said:

Yes (post-game handling falls into that category), but it’s something that was overblown by the media. After Zach requested a meeting with Saleh on Monday to address it, Saleh sensed Zach wasn’t in the right headspace, and combined with his play and everything else, it ultimately put the “reset” plan in motion. 

What concerns me most about Zach is (1) how he lets outside forces get into his head; and (2) his requirement that everything be perfect in order to perform. 

I have no idea what happens from here. I know Zach is handling it well but I think the Jets piled on and created an unnecessary distraction when the simple answer was to address and fix the issues on the fly. It’s simply my opinion that this move—which they think will be successful—ultimately blows up in the Jets face.

Pretty sure if it was so simple they would have done it. Footwork and fundamentals aren’t fixed in a day or two. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

7 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Because the last few times I’ve “spilled the beans” on the main forum, I get attacked by people who do not like what I have to say because one way or another, it’s not going to jive with certain people’s opinions on what is going on, or what they want to believe the truth is.  I stick to sharing in the DMs nowadays unless I am a couple of bottles of wine deep.

It’s nothing personal towards anyone, it’s just the level of hostility on this forum has increased the last few years and it’s just not worth it. 

Spill spill spill 

[Mogglez]

1 minute ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Spill spill spill 

I’ll hit you with the copy/paste function from Shane, lmfao.

[Beerfish]

Some guys need to be sat down and have to compete, that if I recall is exactly what happened to wilson at byu, he to earn the starting job his last year.  Perhaps this will light a fire under his ass.

In any case, the Jets will be in the market for a vet QB next year for sure, just a matter of how high profile.  Flacco is gone, white will be here if he plays well down the stretch.

[SuicidalSince98]

19 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Because the last few times I’ve “spilled the beans” on the main forum, I got attacked by people who do not like what I have to say because one way or another, it’s either doesn’t jive with certain people’s opinions on what is going on, or what they want to believe the truth is.  Half the time, I don’t even like what I am hearing, but I’m still going to relay.  I stick to sharing in the DMs nowadays unless I am a couple of bottles of wine deep.

It’s nothing personal towards anyone, it’s just the level of hostility on this forum has increased over the last few years and it’s just not worth it.  I have always said that my PMs are open, as long as it doesn’t lead to hostility there, and you are someone who hasn’t a**blasted me in the past.

I’ve always believed your sources 

Spill spill spill

[JTJet]

15 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I’ll hit you with the copy/paste function from Shane, lmfao.

I'll take some of that tea as well please. 

[doitny]

ok guys whoever he gives it to can repost it here and say they got it from their own source lol

[Mogglez]

11 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

I’ve always believed your sources 

Spill spill spill

 

5 minutes ago, JTJet said:

I'll take some of that tea as well please. 

I’ve been, as you can imagine, getting a lot of request in the last few minutes, lol.  I promise I will hit you guys up by the end of the night.  Still have guests right now who are probably wondering why I have been in the bathroom for 40 or so minutes ?.

[Mogglez]

Just now, doitny said:

ok guys whoever he gives it to can repost it here and say they got it from their own source lol

I’ll get you my boy, don’t worry.

[doitny]

Just now, Mogglez said:

I’ll get you my boy, don’t worry.

thanks.