This is a pause

[slats]

Deactivating Zach, rather than just benching him, is a disciplinary move. His presser was a disaster, and while Saleh tried to sugarcoat that a little bit, it’s obvious that it played a part in it. I do think that if Zach took some responsibility last Sunday that he would probably be starting this one - albeit with a quick hook waiting, his play was pitiful, after all. 
 
But I also believe Saleh when he says he wants to get Zach back in the starting lineup this year. I found it interesting, too, that he mentioned being in touch with Seattle, specifically regarding Geno. Did he pick up a few pointers for dealing with entitled, immature yet talented QBs? It’s clear that they’ve shifted from coddling him to giving him some tough love. He ran the scout team yesterday. That’s some serious humbling coming down upon his head. 

For now, it’s Mike White’s job to lose, though. I expect them to ride the hot hand and, if Zach gets Wally Pipped, so be it. But they need to figure out if it’s going to be White, Wilson, or none of the above before this season is over. This team is too good, too soon to screw around at QB. Going into next year with the two of them and, say, a Gardiner Minshew would just be more wheel-spinning, imho. My gut feeling is that with seven games left, Zach will make his way back on the field, as much as the fan base may be done with him. They just have too much invested in him. In the meantime, though, I will be rooting for Mike White to make that move as difficult as possible. 

[Lith]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

Going into next year with the two of them and, say, a Gardiner Minshew would just be more wheel-spinning, imho. My gut feeling is that with seven games left, Zach will make his way back on the field, as much as the fan base may be done with him. They just have too much invested in him. In the meantime, though, I will be rooting for Mike White to make that move as difficult as possible. 

My ideal QB room heading into next season is Wilson, solid vet (Minshew, Jimmy G, Heinecke, Geno) and a day 2/day 3 rookie (Hendon Hooker).   Let Zach and the vet compete in camp and bring the rookie along slowly.  I also think which vet we sign could be an indication of what our staff truly thinks of Zach.  They go all in for a guy like Jimmy G at $25M+ he is gonna be the starter and Zach either gets traded or backs up.

Mike White can change that all up depending on what he does over the next few weeks.  

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

15 minutes ago, slats said:

Deactivating Zach, rather than just benching him, is a disciplinary move. His presser was a disaster, and while Saleh tried to sugarcoat that a little bit, it’s obvious that it played a part in it. I do think that if Zach took some responsibility last Sunday that he would probably be starting this one - albeit with a quick hook waiting, his play was pitiful, after all. 
 
But I also believe Saleh when he says he wants to get Zach back in the starting lineup this year. I found it interesting, too, that he mentioned being in touch with Seattle, specifically regarding Geno. Did he pick up a few pointers for dealing with entitled, immature yet talented QBs? It’s clear that they’ve shifted from coddling him to giving him some tough love. He ran the scout team yesterday. That’s some serious humbling coming down upon his head. 

For now, it’s Mike White’s job to lose, though. I expect them to ride the hot hand and, if Zach gets Wally Pipped, so be it. But they need to figure out if it’s going to be White, Wilson, or none of the above before this season is over. This team is too good, too soon to screw around at QB. Going into next year with the two of them and, say, a Gardiner Minshew would just be more wheel-spinning, imho. My gut feeling is that with seven games left, Zach will make his way back on the field, as much as the fan base may be done with him. They just have too much invested in him. In the meantime, though, I will be rooting for Mike White to make that move as difficult as possible. 

Yip yip yooray.  His problems are not game experience related.  They seem to be mental and mechanical.  

We won’t find out if Wilson is the guy these last 7 games.

He’ll have a full off-season to try to get his mechanics squared away and mentally figure out why he is missing easy passes (mechanics aside) plus freezing up when guys are breaking open.

The best thing for Zach truly is a reset.

Will he start again this year?  I highly doubt he starts in a meaningful game with the playoffs still on the line.

Will he play again this year?  Maybe, I don’t doubt that Saleh might want to get him in there.

 

 

[y2k8]

 

It's not disciplinary. The kid is broken.

[slats]

2 minutes ago, Lith said:

My ideal QB room heading into next season is Wilson, solid vet (Minshew, Jimmy G, Heinecke, Geno) and a day 2/day 3 rookie (Hendon Hooker).

My ideal QB room either has Zach as the clear starter or removed from consideration entirely. If they make a move for a veteran QB, I want it to be a major move. Not a lukewarm place-holder like Minshew or Heinecke. This limbo crap is what I wanted to avoid. 

[Augustiniak]

Broadly speaking it’s a time out to see if they can reprogram the kid.  He’s arrogant, entitled and immature.  If they can get through to him that his style won’t cut it anywhere in the nfl they will have succeeded.  Maybe watching someone like mike white run the offense in a simplified manner and hopefully score touchdowns will get through to him. 

[doitny]

23 minutes ago, slats said:

Deactivating Zach, rather than just benching him, is a disciplinary move

i disagree. they beched Zach cause they didnt want him to play this week for whatever reason. then why make him an injury away from playing.? if White got hurt in the 1st qt then Zach would be like starting the game. which they didnt want.

[GangGreened]

At this point, I don’t know if sitting will really “fix” him. He definitely needs the mental reset though.

The time to sit him was last year, and then insert him into the lineup when he’s ready. But we went full Darnold, right after dumping Darnold.

[Lith]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

My ideal QB room either has Zach as the clear starter or removed from consideration entirely. If they make a move for a veteran QB, I want it to be a major move. Not a lukewarm place-holder like Minshew or Heinecke. This limbo crap is what I wanted to avoid. 

I would love to get a guy like Jimmy G.  But he will be a free agent, and there will be a lot of teams bidding for him.  Some likley with more cap space than us.  The only clear #1s, in FA are Jimmy G and Lamar, and I don't think there is any way that Baltimore lets Lamar hit FA.  So that leaves Jimmy.  We have a lot to offer him since the CS knows him and we offer a chance to win now, but it is FA, player makes the choice and if for some reason he does not want to be here he won't be.

If we can't get JG, either we explore the trade market or we need a competent placeholder like MInshew/Heinecke who can win games until we solve for that long term guy.  And both are young enouogh that they could become the guy themselves.  I don't think there is any way Zach is the clear starter heading into next year.  He should have to win the job in preseason.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, doitny said:

i disagree. they beched Zach cause they didnt want him to play this week for whatever reason. then why make him an injury away from playing.? if White got hurt in the 1st qt then Zach would be like starting the game. which they didnt want.

They don’t want him playing b/c his mechanics suck and his headspace sucks.  Saleh said he needs a reboot and that’s what they intend to give him. 

[doitny]

9 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

The best thing for Zach truly is a reset.

didnt he reset after his injury last year? we brought in his personal QB coach and went back to basics to remember how not to bounce screen passes. 

how many resets does this kid get before we say he is a bust

[doitny]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

They don’t want him playing b/c his mechanics suck and his headspace sucks.  Saleh said he needs a reboot and that’s what they intend to give him. 

as long as were in the playoff race Zach will sit. they didnt bring White in to just play a game or 2. and if we make the playoffs with White, Zachs reboot will happen with another team

[Lith]

Just now, doitny said:

how many resets does this kid get before we say he is a bust

At this point I have no issue is someone calls him a bust until and unless he proves otherwise.  2nd overall pick who has been statistically among bottom 3 QBs since coming into the league and showing no signs of consistent imrpovement.  Who also reportedly lost his locker room.  

I do think he will get a chance to reset and prove otherwise.  Whether it is here or somewhere else remains to be seen.  To date, he is a bust.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, doitny said:

as long as were in the playoff race Zach will sit. they didnt bring White in to just play a game or 2. and if we make the playoffs with White, Zachs reboot will happen with another team

They’ll play white until he completely sucks too.  But this qb room will look different next year, no doubt.  Douglas will change it.

[TuscanyTile2]

35 minutes ago, slats said:

Deactivating Zach, rather than just benching him, is a disciplinary move. His presser was a disaster, and while Saleh tried to sugarcoat that a little bit, it’s obvious that it played a part in it. I do think that if Zach took some responsibility last Sunday that he would probably be starting this one - albeit with a quick hook waiting, his play was pitiful, after all. 
 
But I also believe Saleh when he says he wants to get Zach back in the starting lineup this year. I found it interesting, too, that he mentioned being in touch with Seattle, specifically regarding Geno. Did he pick up a few pointers for dealing with entitled, immature yet talented QBs? It’s clear that they’ve shifted from coddling him to giving him some tough love. He ran the scout team yesterday. That’s some serious humbling coming down upon his head. 

For now, it’s Mike White’s job to lose, though. I expect them to ride the hot hand and, if Zach gets Wally Pipped, so be it. But they need to figure out if it’s going to be White, Wilson, or none of the above before this season is over. This team is too good, too soon to screw around at QB. Going into next year with the two of them and, say, a Gardiner Minshew would just be more wheel-spinning, imho. My gut feeling is that with seven games left, Zach will make his way back on the field, as much as the fan base may be done with him. They just have too much invested in him. In the meantime, though, I will be rooting for Mike White to make that move as difficult as possible. 

I agree on all points.  Though I get the feeling it will be almost impossible for MW to be the starter going into next year.  And I can't imagine ZW will just be handed that again after what just happened.  JD is going to bring in a veteran.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

6 minutes ago, Lith said:

I would love to get a guy like Jimmy G.  But he will be a free agent, and there will be a lot of teams bidding for him.  Some likley with more cap space than us.  The only clear #1s, in FA are Jimmy G and Lamar, and I don't think there is any way that Baltimore lets Lamar hit FA.  So that leaves Jimmy.  We have a lot to offer him since the CS knows him and we offer a chance to win now, but it is FA, player makes the choice and if for some reason he does not want to be here he won't be.

If we can't get JG, either we explore the trade market or we need a competent placeholder like MInshew/Heinecke who can win games until we solve for that long term guy.  And both are young enouogh that they could become the guy themselves.  I don't think there is any way Zach is the clear starter heading into next year.  He should have to win the job in preseason.

Multiple teams bidding don't seem to mean much to the free agent quarterback.  They go to the places with the best teams surrounding them.  All of the recent high profile guys went to the best situation not the most money.  

Imo, The Jets will be in the driver's seat with every quarterback available unless Zach becomes something. 

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Yip yip yooray.  His problems are not game experience related.  They seem to be mental and mechanical.  

We won’t find out if Wilson is the guy these last 7 games.

He’ll have a full off-season to try to get his mechanics squared away and mentally figure out why he is missing easy passes (mechanics aside) plus freezing up when guys are breaking open.

The best thing for Zach truly is a reset.

Will he start again this year?  I highly doubt he starts in a meaningful game with the playoffs still on the line.

Will he play again this year?  Maybe, I don’t doubt that Saleh might want to get him in there.

 

 

My take as well. Neither Saleh nor LaFleur sounded like they were in too big a rush to get Zach back on the field any time soon. They’ve both devoted a lot of time and resources into getting Wilson to play even a marginal brand of football and Zach can’t even meet that expectation. Throw in the whispers of Zach having some attitudinal issues and it’s no wonder why they opted to elevate a guy like Mike White. This isn’t some crazy, five-dimensional, impossible to understand offensive system that requires an elite talent to pilot. It just needs a guy who can run the plays, get the ball on time to their many RAC players, and facilitate. I think Zach Wilson is extremely done as a Jet, and there won’t be any tears shed when he leaves.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, T0mShane said:

My take as well. Neither Saleh nor LaFleur sounded like they were in too big a rush to get Zach back on the field any time soon. They’ve both devoted a lot of time and resources into getting Wilson to play even a marginal brand of football and Zach can’t even meet that expectation. Throw in the whispers of Zach having some attitudinal issues and it’s no wonder why they opted to elevate a guy like Mike White. This isn’t some crazy, five-dimensional, impossible to understand offensive system that requires an elite talent to pilot. It just needs a guy who can run the plays, get the ball on time to their many RAC players, and facilitate. I think Zach Wilson is extremely done as a Jet, and there won’t be any tears shed when he leaves.

Agree, this is a basic offense where you’re encouraged to get the ball out quickly and let the playmakers run and get first downs.  When ZW got the ball out quicker like vs the bills it was functional.  

[kevinc855]

41 minutes ago, slats said:

Deactivating Zach, rather than just benching him, is a disciplinary move. His presser was a disaster, and while Saleh tried to sugarcoat that a little bit, it’s obvious that it played a part in it. I do think that if Zach took some responsibility last Sunday that he would probably be starting this one - albeit with a quick hook waiting, his play was pitiful, after all. 
 
But I also believe Saleh when he says he wants to get Zach back in the starting lineup this year. I found it interesting, too, that he mentioned being in touch with Seattle, specifically regarding Geno. Did he pick up a few pointers for dealing with entitled, immature yet talented QBs? It’s clear that they’ve shifted from coddling him to giving him some tough love. He ran the scout team yesterday. That’s some serious humbling coming down upon his head. 

For now, it’s Mike White’s job to lose, though. I expect them to ride the hot hand and, if Zach gets Wally Pipped, so be it. But they need to figure out if it’s going to be White, Wilson, or none of the above before this season is over. This team is too good, too soon to screw around at QB. Going into next year with the two of them and, say, a Gardiner Minshew would just be more wheel-spinning, imho. My gut feeling is that with seven games left, Zach will make his way back on the field, as much as the fan base may be done with him. They just have too much invested in him. In the meantime, though, I will be rooting for Mike White to make that move as difficult as possible. 

Cant agree with this.

This benching was based on performance over 20 games. Had we lost a close one where Zach looked decent to ok and had the same PC he starts next week. Saleh wants to win. 

[Lith]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Multiple teams bidding don't seem to mean much to the free agent quarterback.  They go to the places with the best teams surrounding them.  All of the recent high profile guys went to the best situation not the most money.  

Imo, The Jets will be in the driver's seat with every quarterback available unless Zach becomes something. 

Nice to actually bein the discussion for one of the best situations for a change.  But it is FA.  Player chooses and if for some reason he does not want to be here, he will not be.

[Kleckineau]

What are the cost implications of just cutting him? Probably has zero trade value at this point.

[JustInFudge]

I agree it's disciplinary but they'd over look the attitude/presser if he was balling out in other games.  This is cumulative.  I agree, it's in the Jets best interest that Zach pulls it together but I'm not as confident as you that he'll return.  Watching the All 22 of the Pats game was scary for Zach Wilson's career.  He's a fundamental mess and trigger shy and inaccurate and cant read defenses.  I dont know that he's competent enough to pull it together, period, let alone quickly enough to see the field again this season.  Could be wrong but this stuff didnt come and bite him this week.  It's plagued him his career.

Maybe I'm being too optimistic but I really think Mike White is going to make this passing game look a ton better.  There were so many basically elementary first reads that were wide ass open, I dont know that you cant get worse.  White's strength is getting the ball out quick to his first read, so it wouldnt shock me if White held off Wilson for the rest of the season.

 

 

[SoFlaJets]

And...if or when Zach Wilson makes it back onto the field this year or next I will be rooting my ass off every play for him to be successful and for the Jets to win. Just like I was doing when we all watched the disastrous display by Zach on Sunday "PLEASE...complete ONE PASS!"

[Sonny Werblin]

43 minutes ago, slats said:

Deactivating Zach, rather than just benching him, is a disciplinary move. His presser was a disaster, and while Saleh tried to sugarcoat that a little bit, it’s obvious that it played a part in it. I do think that if Zach took some responsibility last Sunday that he would probably be starting this one - albeit with a quick hook waiting, his play was pitiful, after all. 
 
But I also believe Saleh when he says he wants to get Zach back in the starting lineup this year. I found it interesting, too, that he mentioned being in touch with Seattle, specifically regarding Geno. Did he pick up a few pointers for dealing with entitled, immature yet talented QBs? It’s clear that they’ve shifted from coddling him to giving him some tough love. He ran the scout team yesterday. That’s some serious humbling coming down upon his head. 

For now, it’s Mike White’s job to lose, though. I expect them to ride the hot hand and, if Zach gets Wally Pipped, so be it. But they need to figure out if it’s going to be White, Wilson, or none of the above before this season is over. This team is too good, too soon to screw around at QB. Going into next year with the two of them and, say, a Gardiner Minshew would just be more wheel-spinning, imho. My gut feeling is that with seven games left, Zach will make his way back on the field, as much as the fan base may be done with him. They just have too much invested in him. In the meantime, though, I will be rooting for Mike White to make that move as difficult as possible. 

There is a true lack of appreciation as to just how good Gardner Minshew is at playing the position of QB. Philly traded for him as an insurance policy for Hurts, than Hurts took off this season and the Eagles are a SB contender which became unwilling to trade its starting calibre backup QB. 

Check the film. Check his stats. Minshew is better than half the current starting QBs and he’s only 26. 

[Big_Slick]

42 minutes ago, slats said:

Deactivating Zach, rather than just benching him, is a disciplinary move. His presser was a disaster, and while Saleh tried to sugarcoat that a little bit, it’s obvious that it played a part in it. I do think that if Zach took some responsibility last Sunday that he would probably be starting this one - albeit with a quick hook waiting, his play was pitiful, after all. 
 
But I also believe Saleh when he says he wants to get Zach back in the starting lineup this year. I found it interesting, too, that he mentioned being in touch with Seattle, specifically regarding Geno. Did he pick up a few pointers for dealing with entitled, immature yet talented QBs? It’s clear that they’ve shifted from coddling him to giving him some tough love. He ran the scout team yesterday. That’s some serious humbling coming down upon his head. 

For now, it’s Mike White’s job to lose, though. I expect them to ride the hot hand and, if Zach gets Wally Pipped, so be it. But they need to figure out if it’s going to be White, Wilson, or none of the above before this season is over. This team is too good, too soon to screw around at QB. Going into next year with the two of them and, say, a Gardiner Minshew would just be more wheel-spinning, imho. My gut feeling is that with seven games left, Zach will make his way back on the field, as much as the fan base may be done with him. They just have too much invested in him. In the meantime, though, I will be rooting for Mike White to make that move as difficult as possible. 

It really doesn't matter if White or Flacco play well or not. What needed to be determined this season is whether or not Zach is the answer at FQB. The answer to that question is apparent. Zach is a bust and it's time to move on.

Of course with all the guaranteed money left on his contract he'll be given every chance to 'reset' and compete for the starting job next season. It won't happen.

[Larz]

Zach is toast. Done, Over. Epic bust. 
 

The jets just handed the reins over to a back up no team though was worth a 5th round pick because they didn’t invest in a quality back up QB because the entire thrust of the offense this year was “ride or die with Zach no matter what “

 

there is no way this doesn’t get jetsy 

[Lith]

10 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

What are the cost implications of just cutting him? Probably has zero trade value at this point.

Cap hit of $9M next year becomes $20M if we cut him.  Trade would be the only option.  Team acquiring him only pays his base salary, which is  $3.8M and $5.4M next two seasons, which makes a trade possible.  $9M cap hit becomes $11M next season for us if we trade him.

[RJIII]

Should have drafted MAHOMES II at 6

[Joe W. Namath]

30 minutes ago, doitny said:

didnt he reset after his injury last year? we brought in his personal QB coach and went back to basics to remember how not to bounce screen passes. 

how many resets does this kid get before we say he is a bust

HEs only 23.  He is getting one more chance at this.  He will sit for the rest of the year barring injuries or ineffectiveness and he will be competing for the starting qb job next year.  And I think he will win it.

[Larz]

An article came out this year comparing rookie QBs that started at least 8 games, something like that. 
 

Zach was between Josh Rosen and Eli Manning.  
 

Eli was always very sound technically but was simply careless with the football. 
 

Zach’s situation is 99% Rosen , 1% Eli

[Irish Jet]

1 hour ago, slats said:

or now, it’s Mike White’s job to lose, though. I expect them to ride the hot hand and, if Zach gets Wally Pipped, so be it. But they need to figure out if it’s going to be White, Wilson, or none of the above before this season is over. This team is too good, too soon to screw around at QB. Going into next year with the two of them and, say, a Gardiner Minshew would just be more wheel-spinning, imho. My gut feeling is that with seven games left, Zach will make his way back on the field, as much as the fan base may be done with him. They just have too much invested in him. In the meantime, though, I will be rooting for Mike White to make that move as difficult as possible. 

There's nothing your going to see from in the 4-5 games he may play that's going to tell us anything new about Zach. These guys are saying all the positive things because I do believe they expect to keep Zach in 2023 and they probably don't have all that much faith in White/Flacco but they're also realistic enough to know you can't really bank on Zach fixing his issues - These kind of "resets" just don't really happen and the fact that they have to point Geno - who took 8 years and 4 teams to get on track - tells you how salvageable these type of situations generally are. 

Going into next season with Zach as the starter is screwing around at QB. There's nothing he could show in whatever games he plays to inspire confidence that he's the guy - In fact the absolute worst case scenario for me was always that he'd have a similar end to last season where people would point to mythical improvement as a means to bring him back as a #1. 

Zach at best cannot be anything more than plan B for next year - If he pieces things together in camp and outplays everyone then maybe you can see what's there but given how unlikely that is you have to proceed with someone else in mind as the starter. All avenues should be being explored - Draft, FA's, Trades - Whatever we go with will be one of Douglas' defining moves imo. 

[Sonny Werblin]

It would be a good sign if Wilson deleted all of his social media accounts. If he wants to save his career he needs to be all about and only about football.

[slats]

32 minutes ago, JiFields said:

I agree it's disciplinary but they'd over look the attitude/presser if he was balling out in other games.  This is cumulative.  I agree, it's in the Jets best interest that Zach pulls it together but I'm not as confident as you that he'll return.  Watching the All 22 of the Pats game was scary for Zach Wilson's career.  He's a fundamental mess and trigger shy and inaccurate and cant read defenses.  I dont that he's competent enough to pull it together, period, let alone quickly enough to see the field again this season.  Could be wrong but this stuff didnt come and bite him this week.  It's plagued him his career.

Maybe I'm being too optimistic but I really think Mike White is going to make this passing game look a ton better.  There were so many basically elementary first reads that were wide ass open, I dont know that you cant get worse.  White's strength is getting the ball out quick to his first read, so it wouldnt shock me if White held off Wilson for the rest of the season.

 

 

I see the same things. I’m concerned that he’s just not mentally fit for the position. Between the injuries last year and this one, this is the third time he’s sitting. He looked good at times, but has clearly regressed below the mean at this stage. 
 
Like I said, I expect White to be a spark and maybe a little more, but not the answer. And they have $35M guaranteed tied into Zach. I take Saleh at his word when he says he wants him back in the lineup before the season is over. I think the only way it doesn’t happen is if White starts off hot and stays that way. 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

There is no way Garappolo comes to the Jets to compete with Wilson for the starting job.  If he doesn't sign with SF again long-term, he will have his pick of numerous offers (Indy, Las Vegas, Washington, NYG, Atlanta, NO, Seattle).  He's going to go somewhere where he can sign a long term deal as the clear starting QB. He is not going to go somewhere where he gets "Lanced" again.  The Jets will be an option if and only if Wilson is out of the picture.

[slats]

12 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Going into next season with Zach as the starter is screwing around at QB. There's nothing he could show in whatever games he plays to inspire confidence that he's the guy - In fact the absolute worst case scenario for me was always that he'd have a similar end to last season where people would point to mythical improvement as a means to bring him back as a #1. 

That’s the scenario where I’d bring in a Minshew type. I definitely agree that it’ll be pretty close to impossible to definitively believe in Zach because of a few good games. If if they start thinking that, they’ll need a better Plan B.