Douglas/FO v Saleh/LaFleur over benching Zach Wilson(?)

[DireJet]

2 minutes ago, Larz said:

The entire offensive staff is likely gone. 

Depends on how these final 2 games turn out. MLF system was cooking in games MW started in terms of yardage. You have to think the RZ issues iron out if MW had the preseason/training camp reps with 1s. That’s my view, at least. 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, VJphillyfan said:

I don’t think Saleh is anything special but if woody cans the entire coaching staff because he thinks Wilson is salvageable this is a new bottom for Woody. This would be worse than the Tebow trade and the thousand different crappy personnel moves and head coach and GM hires last 12 years

Yeah. Blaming the coaches for Douglas drafting Wilson would be peak Jets. 

[VJphillyfan]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Yeah. Blaming the coaches for Douglas drafting Wilson would be peak Jets. 

If Zach is starting week 1 next year — woody thinks he heard boos on Christmas?!?

[jgb]

59 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Saleh and Douglas have been in lockstep since day 1.  This is a well thought out plan agreed on by both of them.  And it would have worked flawlessly but White got hurt and they had to go back to Zach.

 

The plan can’t be flawless since it included drafting an all-time bust #2 overall. They may very well both be good at their jobs, but the worship of both as infallible will only lead to ludicrous unreasonable expectations.

[peebag]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Douglas has 13 wins in 3 seasons. 

2 of those seasons with Salad boy.

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, peebag said:

2 of those seasons with Salad boy.

Fair. 

[Matt39]

10 minutes ago, DireJet said:

Can you link reports? He cooked the Giants in the final preseason game. And got zero reps with 1s in camp. So what are we really talking about here? I’m more convinced than ever that Saleh/MLF would’ve rolled with MW from Day 1 this season but JD wasn’t having it.

Saleh’s recent quote on MW’s toughness & grit to succeed more than supports this. Saleh finally won the power struggle over JD and that’s why MW was named starter ROS. 

I don’t see how it’s any other scenario. No one actually felt Flacco was better than White? There’s no way. It was to protect the egos of Wilson and the GM. 

[56mehl56]

34 minutes ago, VJphillyfan said:

So Zach initially went out on the field the series Streveler subbed in? 

Yes, it was during a TV timeout. 

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Jets coaches and front office totally and utterly blew it and are now trying to fix some things if they can or if not are not going to just toss the guy in the dust bin.

Wilson was totally not ready to be an nfl qb off the hop and a smart team would have brought in a legit vet started and had wilson sit for a year minimum. and if they fans don't like it?  F'em

Also Douglas is not going to toss away a high asset quickly if some team actually made a swap offer of a trey lance or love he might listen but if Douglas has taught us one thing is that he is patient and will try and get max value from assets. 

He got a haul for Adams and did well in the Darnold trade, he told both Mims and Moore to sit down and shut up when they wanted trades.

Robert Saleh and MLF do not have enough cred banked to be shopping for their own groceries.

I do not think there is any chance the Jets do any of these: Rodgers, Carr, Jackson (gag) Tannehill Jimmy G (injuries) Brisset Foles but I do think they will possibly kick the tires on a Jordan Love trade. Rodgers is going no where so the window is sort of closed on Love so we might get him for not much in compensation. I still basically think barring a Mike White miracle, Zach is QB#1 next year under a new OC.

[Larz]

16 minutes ago, DireJet said:

Depends on how these final 2 games turn out. MLF system was cooking in games MW started in terms of yardage. You have to think the RZ issues iron out if MW had the preseason/training camp reps with 1s. That’s my view, at least. 

The owner wants his #2 pick to be a star, like they all do, and LaFluer publicly took responsibility for Zach not developing. MW yards aren’t saving LaFluer

If they actually make the playoffs and look good it’s much less likely I agree but if they don’t lafleur and the staff are going to be sacrificed 

[choon328]

48 minutes ago, Green DNA said:

So Douglas is sabotaging the season by playing Zach in order to not look bad and to save his job?  Would the team tanking not jeopardize his job?  This is some grassy knoll type stuff.

I don't think he tried to purposely sabotage the season. I'm sure he thought Wilson would play better and then when that didn't work he had all his minions start throwing LaFleur under the bus on national TV. But everybody knew that by playing Wilson you were playing a broken QB and thus opening yourself up to having an awful offense against two of the worst pass defenses in the NFL. You can't ever convince me that Saleh wanted to play Wilson after his comments and how much his teammates probably hate him. 

[kmnj]

zach is the worst jets qb I have ever seen-Joe bombed on QB so far-Captain Morgan, Zach Joe F-I do like Mike white though but it  may be only because I am comparing him to zach

joe really should be fired based on Wilson and Becton-two high first rounders that are monster busts -Wilson might be the biggest bust in jets franchise history and Becton is a top 5 as well.  Becton makes Dave Cadigan look like Munoz 

with that being said I like his most recent draft and based on that I am willing to have more patience 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Why is it a shock that the GM will make the call on if a player is moved or not. Isn’t that his job? Lol

[Green DNA]

3 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I don't think he tried to purposely sabotage the season. I'm sure he thought Wilson would play better and then when that didn't work he had all his minions start throwing LaFleur under the bus on national TV. But everybody knew that by playing Wilson you were playing a broken QB and thus opening yourself up to having an awful offense against two of the worst pass defenses in the NFL. You can't ever convince me that Saleh wanted to play Wilson after his comments and how much his teammates probably hate him. 

I'm sure Saleh didn't want to play Wilson again but he really had no choice once White went down.  Flacco is a disinterested corpse and Streveler is a gadget QB with a Pop Warner arm.  I was happy to see Streveler come in and while it was exciting for a while his passes floated.  It would have been interesting to see who would have started next week had White not gotten the green light.    

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, kmnj said:

zach is the worst jets qb I have ever seen-Joe bombed on QB so far-Captain Morgan, Zach Joe F-I do like Mike white though but it  may be only because I am comparing him to zach

joe really should be fired based on Wilson and Becton-two high first rounders that are monster busts -Wilson might be the biggest bust in jets franchise history and Becton is a top 5 as well.  Becton makes Dave Cadigan look like Munoz 

with that being said I like his most recent draft and based on that I am willing to have more patience 

 

[choon328]

1 minute ago, Larz said:

The owner wants his #2 pick to be a star, like they all do, and LaFluer publicly took responsibility for Zach not developing. MW yards aren’t saving LaFluer

If they actually make the playoffs and look good it’s much less likely I agree but if they don’t lafleur and the staff are going to be sacrificed 

LaFleur isn't going anywhere. It's obvious to everyone, including Woody, that the mistake was in drafting Wilson. Even Streveler, with probably 0 reps with the starters, looked better throwing the ball. LaFleur publicly taking responsibility is the same thing as Saleh publicly stating that he thinks Wilson will be a good QB. They're both being said to protect the brittle QB's psyche and any trade value that he would have left. 

The Jets have a young core on offense and have had a lot of success moving the ball in this offense with every QB besides Wilson.  I doubt they want to disturb that and bring an entire new offensive system in.  

[y2k8]

29 minutes ago, FootballLove said:

What's more interesting is the dynamics leading up to the 2021 draft. With Zack Wilson, Justin Fields, and Tray Lance all in play (JoeD went to all 3 pro days) there had to be dissention within the scouting dept, coaching staff, and GM. Some no doubt hated ZW and wanted Fields. Others, Tray Lance.

Joe had always said he never drafts in a vacuum and always drafts by committee including the coaching staff. I'd really like to know who LeFleur was pulling for. Who was Saleh pulling for? How about Joe himself? Who did the senior scouts say should be the pick? I'm sure Douglas got a ton of input and opinions before settling on ZW. There HAS to be a ton of 'I told ya so' in the building. 

I said it until I was blue in the face at the time - why would JD draft a QB at #2 unless he was absolutely sure he was can't miss MVP-level player? Especially since he DID NOT HAVE TO DRAFT A QB that year. Why start the clock on your tenure before you had to? IF there was a huge split of opinion at the time, drafting Zach was even dumber than I originally thought.

[BurntDice]

22 minutes ago, DireJet said:

Can you link reports? He cooked the Giants in the final preseason game. And got zero reps with 1s in camp. So what are we really talking about here? I’m more convinced than ever that Saleh/MLF would’ve rolled with MW from Day 1 this season but JD wasn’t having it.

Saleh’s recent quote on MW’s toughness & grit to succeed more than supports this. Saleh finally won the power struggle over JD and that’s why MW was named starter ROS. 

Saleh said it in a press conference in the last few weeks I’m not sure which one, but feel free to look yourself. 

[choon328]

2 minutes ago, Green DNA said:

I'm sure Saleh didn't want to play Wilson again but he really had no choice once White went down.  Flacco is a disinterested corpse and Streveler is a gadget QB with a Pop Warner arm.  I was happy to see Streveler come in and while it was exciting for a while his passes floated.  It would have been interesting to see who would have started next week had White not gotten the green light.    

I'm going to assume the coaching staff would think that the corpse of Joe Flacco could've gotten more than 3 points last game. Wilson is the worst QB in the NFL and I think that includes backups. There is no way the coaching staff wanted any part of his ineptitude. 

[DireJet]

1 minute ago, BurntDice said:

Saleh said it in a press conference in the last few weeks I’m not sure which one, but feel free to look yourself. 

All good. Based on Giants game alone, he was by far the best QB on the roster. Not even close. 

[kevinc855]

12 minutes ago, Larz said:

The owner wants his #2 pick to be a star, like they all do, and LaFluer publicly took responsibility for Zach not developing. MW yards aren’t saving LaFluer

If they actually make the playoffs and look good it’s much less likely I agree but if they don’t lafleur and the staff are going to be sacrificed 

Woody is concerned with winning; filling the stadium, and not looking like a Bafoon. 
 

Woody let JD have the reigns in that number 2 pick and now he’s making him look like an idiot with his fan base booing them off the field on national tv. There will be consequences come January 9th if the jets miss the playoffs being 6-3 at the bye and watching Zach Wilson become a national running joke. 

[BurntDice]

3 minutes ago, DireJet said:

All good. Based on Giants game alone, he was by far the best QB on the roster. Not even close. 

If you want to go based on preseason alone then Strev easily had the best #s

[FootballLove]

7 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

I said it until I was blue in the face at the time - why would JD draft a QB at #2 unless he was absolutely sure he was can't miss MVP-level player? Especially since he DID NOT HAVE TO DRAFT A QB that year. Why start the clock on your tenure before you had to? IF there was a huge split of opinion at the time, drafting Zach was even dumber than I originally thought.

This. To date, none of Zack, Justin, or Tray are slam dunks. All look to be on the bust train at one level or another. The 'plan B' was to keep Sam and trade the #2 to the 9ers for a kings ransom. Can you imagine JoeD with 3 more extra 1st round picks for drafts to come? What coulda been.

[DireJet]

Just now, BurntDice said:

If you want to go based on preseason alone then Strev easily had the best #s

Yeah I’m going by eye test. MW was throwing lasers vs the Giants.

[NJ]

1 hour ago, Green DNA said:

So Douglas is sabotaging the season by playing Zach in order to not look bad and to save his job?  Would the team tanking not jeopardize his job?  This is some grassy knoll type stuff.

One thing is certain - playing Zach Wilson any more this season could be legally defined as tanking by a court of law. 

[choon328]

Watch them talk about how someone else besides Saleh made the decision to start Wilson after White got hurt. 

 

 

[NJ]

5 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Woody is concerned with winning; filling the stadium, and not looking like a Bafoon. 

That ship sailed after his conversation with Belichick in 2000 and he's done nothing BUT confirm it since

[VJphillyfan]

50 minutes ago, kmnj said:

zach is the worst jets qb I have ever seen-Joe bombed on QB so far-Captain Morgan, Zach Joe F-I do like Mike white though but it  may be only because I am comparing him to zach

joe really should be fired based on Wilson and Becton-two high first rounders that are monster busts -Wilson might be the biggest bust in jets franchise history and Becton is a top 5 as well.  Becton makes Dave Cadigan look like Munoz 

with that being said I like his most recent draft and based on that I am willing to have more patience 

Don’t worry. Sean Payton will fix everything.  Until he takes a different job

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

JD has to give it up, fold instead of going all in on a POS losing hand (Zach ? ).

On the bright side, thank you George Paton for dissing the Jets multiple times!

Denver is a freaking Hindenberg level disaster and Paton will forever be linked to one of the worst trades and contracts in NFL history.

In a cringe-worthy Tuesday press conference, Paton said everyone in the Broncos organization would be evaluated in the season's final two weeks. Rice, part of the team's ownership, would help guide the team's search for a new head coach after Denver dismissed Nathaniel Hackett on Monday, following the team's blowout loss to the Rams, of all teams. 

[Larz]

Damn. The more you look at what’s going on the more it makes sense 

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, sourceworx said:

In all honesty, his seat shouldn't even be warm. 

This year's draft was a grand slam. Outside of ZW, last year's was pretty good as well. He also hired the coaching staff, and this is the first time in years that the team has shown a pulse.

Zach was a high ceiling prospect with a very low floor. JD took a shot, and it didn't work out. It happens.

Yeah, he’s probably got the OROY and DROY in hand, so he’s not getting axed this year. Next year would be the comeuppance.

[Bugg]

2 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

It would be hilarious if Joe Douglas is intervening with the coaching staff and personnel selection now when he let Gase and that merry band of disphits cost us Trevor Lawrence in 2020.

They fired Gregg Williams for the Raiders game. he should have been given a long term contract. 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Most recent Cimini pod has Cimini putting the brakes on Glazer’s reporting that Zach is on his way out. Very interesting and heretofore unrevealed nugget that Douglas was the one who resisted benching Zach Wilson after Pats Disaster II, and it’ll be Douglas making the call as to whether Zach stays or goes this offseason. Cimini surmises that Douglas and his scouts don’t want that Josh Rosen-like black mark on their resumés, but Saleh and LaFleur want him out. 
 

Interesting side by side with Rosenblatt’s note that, when they benched Zach Wilson in the third quarter of the Jags game, Zach took the field with the offensive huddle, the boos rained down, and then they pulled Zach and made him jog off the field to cheers. If anyone was at the game, was that the sequence of events? If so, harsh, but you would presume intentional. Shades of Rex Ryan trying to make Antonio Allen play corner to teach Idzik a lesson for not signing DRC. 
 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/flight-deck-with-rich-cimini/id1466085257?i=1000591411127

Explains his recent reaction to a particular JN fan's critique of his draft pick. Allegedly. 

[Bungaman]

2 hours ago, GangGreened said:

https://www.nj.com/sports/2022/12/nfl-insider-jets-owner-isnt-sold-on-robert-saleh-housecleaning-coming.html
 

let’s hope not 

Agreed. If Woody swings his small d^ck and cleans house, I'll be just about done rooting for anything but him selling the team. The record and the roster has improved year after year. As others have noted, NO GM IN THE LEAGUE hits on 100% of their picks, no matter the round. Changing coaching staff will guarantee that two more years of mediocrity or worse will ensue, as players have to learn new schemes, and those that don't fit the new regime get cycled out for ones that do. Great. Let's become one of those franchises that has no patience, and just starts from scratch over and over and over. 

[Bugg]

1 minute ago, Bungaman said:

Agreed. If Woody swings his small d^ck and cleans house, I'll be just about done rooting for anything but him selling the team. The record and the roster has improved year after year. As others have noted, NO GM IN THE LEAGUE hits on 100% of their picks, no matter the round. Changing coaching staff will guarantee that two more years of mediocrity or worse will ensue, as players have to learn new schemes, and those that don't fit the new regime get cycled out for ones that do. Great. Let's become one of those franchises that has no patience, and just starts from scratch over and over and over. 

If Johnson wants to make sure the perception is this is in fact an impossible place to work with a toxic environment to boot, he could not do a dumber thing than firing Saleh. Remembert there is no salary cap fr coaches, but somehow Johnson ahs never landed a bit time coach. Because we KNOW he won't overpay for Sean Payton(or possibly Jim Harbaugh), he'll simply again hire the next hot coordinator on the cheap.He never pays top dollar for coaches. Somehow every Jets coach under Johnson is among the lowest paid in the NFL.