Sam Darnold

[Charlie Brown]

10 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

It's an interesting comment.  How much of the learning curve/success rate is based on the coach/system and how much is based on the player gaining experience?  This Darnold thing, which we don't know is real yet, and the Daniel Jones thing, which does look to be real, are real studies in QB development. 

Coaching matters!

Players may be talented but even in the NFL they need to be coached up!

Only on the Jets in the case of Darnold at 19 years old do they have NO QB coach but in the case of Zach Wilson they get coaches with NO EXPERIENCE and somehow believe that it will all just work out!

[varjet]

Darnold is not coming back to the Jets.  Watch the Panthers keep him. 

[Dunnie]

7 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Coaching matters!

Players may be talented but even in the NFL they need to be coached up!

Only on the Jets in the case of Darnold at 19 years old do they have NO QB coach but in the case of Zach Wilson they get coaches with NO EXPERIENCE and somehow believe that it will all just work out!

" ... gotta let Zach be Zach .. just go out and sling it "   was an actual press statement response to how they were coaching Zach up.   Amazing.

[TuscanyTile2]

12 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

" ... gotta let Zach be Zach .. just go out and sling it "   was an actual press statement response to how they were coaching Zach up.   Amazing.

I don't know that that's how they're coaching him up.  I'm hoping they're working on a lot of things, including footwork, quickly going through progessions, etc. 

Assuming they're going to keep him, though, I agree that they should let him sling it.  It would idiotic to try to turn him into something he's not.  Though he definitely does need to work on mastering the smaller stuff (I forget the word Steve Young used for it).  His inefficiency led to far too many short drives, where our defense was thrown right back onto the field.  That has to stop.

[More Cowbell]

10 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

Not only would darnold not come here but at this point it’s got to be all over the league that MLF sucks.  Why would any vet qb come here to play for the OC who will be known for the Zach wilson failure?  

I really can't  believe people here are still blaming MLF for Zach sucking. Has Zach ever been anything on the Jets while 3 other QB had varying degrees of success? 

[More Cowbell]

It would be a massive gamble to bring Sam back. If Sam isn't an instant success,  JD would have punched his ticket out of town. 

[SickJetFan]

4 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

It would be a massive gamble to bring Sam back. If Sam isn't an instant success,  JD would have punched his ticket out of town. 

if he plans to bring in another old has been he might as well punch out now

[Dunnie]

11 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I don't know that that's how they're coaching him up.  I'm hoping they're working on a lot of things, including footwork, quickly going through progessions, etc. 

Assuming they're going to keep him, though, I agree that they should let him sling it.  It would idiotic to try to turn him into something he's not.  Though he definitely does need to work on mastering the smaller stuff (I forget the word Steve Young used for it).  His inefficiency led to far too many short drives, where our defense was thrown right back onto the field.  That has to stop.

I wonder what the actual coaching consisted of ... was it just restricting him more and more and more / using coachspeak ?  Or was there an expert QB coach doing video analysis ? Reviewing his play mechanics and rhythm. He seemed to have absolutely NO sense of rhythm/timing to his play.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Dunnie

[shawn306]

11 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I think he’s improved, but just to be clear - that’s over 5 games at the end of a lost season. isn’t this somewhat similar to what he did in his last 4 games here as a rookie?
 

It’s a dangerously small sample size is all I’m saying 

They were in the playoff hunt until this past week

[More Cowbell]

12 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

if he plans to bring in another old has been he might as well punch out now

I really don't see Rogers or Brady coming here. If they go to any team, it will be a team that is a current playoff team, not one that had an epic collapse.  

[SickJetFan]

2 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I really don't see Rogers or Brady coming here. If they go to any team, it will be a team that is a current playoff team, not one that had an epic collapse.  

yeah I dont either and I am glad for that.

[Warfish]

11 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

 

Reminds me of that late, 100% trash time post-elimination run he had here in, what was it, his second year? Where after we started like 0-6, he led the Jets to like 5 wins late in the year….

[SickJetFan]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Reminds me of that late, 100% trash time post-elimination run he had here in, what was it, his second year? Where after we started like 0-6, he led the Jets to like 5 wins late in the year….

What a player does with J E T S and what that player does elsewhere is like comparing apples to orangutans

[JetsMetsRangers]

12 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I think he’s improved, but just to be clear - that’s over 5 games at the end of a lost season. isn’t this somewhat similar to what he did in his last 4 games here as a rookie?
 

It’s a dangerously small sample size is all I’m saying 

His second season we saw a similar stretch where the last 8 games of the season with 13 TDs and 4 INT and playing on a level of top QB's for that time.....He followed that up by a disaster of a third season with 9 TDS and 11 INT and rated one of the worst QB's in the league leading the Jets to trade him and draft Zach!.....

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

What a player does with J E T S and what that player does elsewhere is like comparing apples to orangutans

Not really.

[viffer]

While I sincerely doubt he would come back, I still think JD made a mistake by trading him and wasting the #2 pick on MILF Hunter. Keeping Darnold for another year or two and putting some talent around him, not to mention getting rid of the worst HC in the history of football, would have been a smarter play. They would at least have added some talent to the team to better evaluate Darnold, and if he wasn't a true FQB, then they would have been in a better place to find a FQB.

[Hal N of Provo]

11 hours ago, Esquire said:

He always was.  He's an inaccurate passer and prone to turnovers, but he was unafraid to take big hits and he would have improved over time.  He would have won an extra two or three games for us this year and we would have made the playoffs IMO.

Lol.   No.   He would have been booed out of town before he developed.  

[Flea Flicking Frank]

if JD had brought Sam back he would have been absolutely crucified. The fan base was completely done with him and was declaring him a colossal bust and saying how bad he sucked. Once a player is done here, they are done here

[Hal N of Provo]

10 hours ago, hawk said:

Darnold had no talent around him.  Not sure it can be said that's the case for the current high pick QB.

Not reality.  Darnold has struggled in Carolina and needed time to develop. 

10 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

Or coaching. Or organizational stability.

Is stability with bad coaching good? 

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

I really can't  believe people here are still blaming MLF for Zach sucking. Has Zach ever been anything on the Jets while 3 other QB had varying degrees of success? 

White had a bad camp and got a few weeks on the side.  He got better.  Then he went in.  And started developing the same mechanical problems Zach did.  
 

Bad coaching!!  

[bonkertons]

15 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Not reality.  Darnold has struggled in Carolina and needed time to develop. 

Is stability with bad coaching good? 

White had a bad camp and got a few weeks on the side.  He got better.  Then he went in.  And started developing the same mechanical problems Zach did.  
 

Bad coaching!!  

Same mechanical problems?  Dafuq you on about?

[More Cowbell]

40 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Not reality.  Darnold has struggled in Carolina and needed time to develop. 

Is stability with bad coaching good? 

White had a bad camp and got a few weeks on the side.  He got better.  Then he went in.  And started developing the same mechanical problems Zach did.  
 

Bad coaching!!  

I think the only game where MW showed these flaws was against Seattle and yes, he was as bad as Zach. I believe that game was an outlier but it pretty much sealed his fate here. MW won't  be a Jet next season.

[k-met57]

13 hours ago, VJphillyfan said:

That’s wierd. Sam >>>>> Zach

 

but yeah a new OC is fixing Zach?

are you at all open to supporting Wilson to see what we can salvage from this investment? every post you make is just hateful bashing. How is that serving this team or this fanbase? dont we all have to hope this sh*t works out?

[Hal N of Provo]

1 hour ago, bonkertons said:

Same mechanical problems?  Dafuq you on about?

 

48 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I think the only game where MW showed these flaws was against Seattle and yes, he was as bad as Zach. I believe that game was an outlier but it pretty much sealed his fate here. MW won't  be a Jet next season.

Yeah and 1st half against the Bills had and some throws against the Vikings.

and it seemed to be getting worse.  

You should be able to maintain without shutting everything down and going onto the sidelines.  Something is wrong in the QB development on the Jets.  

[football guy]

The one thing Sam can't escape is injury and illness. Freak incidents or not, he's now missed at least 3 games per season 5 years in a row. 

With that said, he's playing extremely well. This isn't a smoke and mirrors offense. They OL has improved tremendously throughout this season. Couple that with a cleaned up Darnold and you're seeing some extremely high-caliber QBing. 

He's going to have options. I think he will return to Carolina, but someone is going to give him a starting opportunity this offseason

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, football guy said:

The one thing Sam can't escape is injury and illness. Freak incidents or not, he's now missed at least 3 games per season 5 years in a row. 

With that said, he's playing extremely well. This isn't a smoke and mirrors offense. They OL has improved tremendously throughout this season. Couple that with a cleaned up Darnold and you're seeing some extremely high-caliber QBing. 

He's going to have options. I think he will return to Carolina, but someone is going to give him a starting opportunity this offseason

Increasingly the inescapable conclusion about the jets is that the offensive coaching sucks and can’t develop qbs.  The drafting is better than the coaching.  It’s fair to wonder if woody realizes this on his own or if someone outside the organization he trusts is going to tell him this.  

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

14 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

 

[Beerfish]

I think Sam is too much of a risk for most teams to count on at this time.  Even at Carolina he was really good then really bad and is now good again.  He is a guy that needs a really strong run game a structured offensive plan and obviously talent around him.

Wilson has had it FAR easier than Darnold ever had it here and is a bigger fail.

It was a total disgrace how Darnold was handled coming into the league.

[football guy]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

Increasingly the inescapable conclusion about the jets is that the offensive coaching sucks and can’t develop qbs.  The drafting is better than the coaching.  It’s fair to wonder if woody realizes this on his own or if someone outside the organization he trusts is going to tell him this.  

It's really disheartening. I don't want to make it all about how a guy sucks or not because I do think these coaches can be good coaches. There have been plenty of OCs or QB coaches who started out rough and went on to become some of the greatest coaches of all time. My problem lies with the way they've handled this offense and the players within it. For whatever reason, MLF is married to his game plans. He's shown the ability to be flexible with his game plans, but he's not flexible in games... either very bland or very creative. His scheme does work IMO, but it requires everyone to perfectly execute simultaneously with timing (which is why SF is so freaking good)... that's not talent, it's coaching and a player's own coachability. When you have a lot of inexperienced coaches at significant positions (QB/WR), as well as significant injuries along the OL, you can't expect everyone to execute perfectly within the scheme as you've designed it... that's when I believe it's up to the OC to swallow his pride, tear it up, and implement something that can work with what you have for the sake of production. MLF hasn't done that. Again, I think a lot of it stems from him identifying opponents weaknesses and building a game plan around that, rather than just playing to our strengths. 

[THE BARON]

15 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

 

I always said of Darnold that he could be a good QB in a system that he was fit for.  His skill set would be ideal for a modern version of the Joe Bugel/1980's Redskin offense.  He was totally miscast in the offense that Gase was running.  

[playtowinthegame]

I could see Darnold going back to Cali Cali Cali riding his Marlboro horse into SoFi Stadium to play for the Rams, then Mayfield coming to the Jets who need a quarterback with his chutzpah. I'd love for that to happen just to see @Green Ghost turn into a homer after being such an objective Jets fan with our past bust at QB. 

[doitny]

15 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

It's an interesting comment.  How much of the learning curve/success rate is based on the coach/system and how much is based on the player gaining experience?  This Darnold thing, which we don't know is real yet, and the Daniel Jones thing, which does look to be real, are real studies in QB development. 

Why does Jones look real? It’s one year which he’s got the 4th best RB in the league . Let’s see how real it is next year without Barkley

[Green Ghost]

8 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

I could see Darnold going back to Cali Cali Cali riding his Marlboro horse into SoFi Stadium to play for the Rams, then Mayfield coming to the Jets who need a quarterback with his chutzpah. I'd love for that to happen just to see @Green Ghost turn into a homer after being such an objective Jets fan with our past bust at QB. 

[playtowinthegame]

9 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

All I do is get my feet in warm water, get my nails clipped. No "clear polish". lol...I get the manicure too. I love it. It's so relaxing man. You busting my chops, but I know you do the same thing. 

[genot]

They retooled the offensive line. Darnold has a little bit more piece of mind that he isn't going to get killed everything he takes a three step drop. He was having an excellent season before McCaffrey got hurt. When that happened, defenses starting teeing off on Sam, and that putrid line couldn't handle it. Neither could Sam. It was deja vu for him. Bad flashbacks.

[y2k8]

4 hours ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

if JD had brought Sam back he would have been absolutely crucified. The fan base was completely done with him and was declaring him a colossal bust and saying how bad he sucked. Once a player is done here, they are done here

This is not true. The fan base was split on getting rid of Sam and drafting a Qb. Maybe 65% wanted him gone.

Contrast that where we are with Zach today. And yet they will be bringing him back anyway.