Monson and Palolozzo talk lessons to be learned from Zach

[JetsAddict]

I didn’t watch it, but figured I’d post it since it’s important. 
 

 

[T0mShane]

Heard this earlier. The Cliff Notes for those that don’t care to listen: Zach had all the traits, all the scouts loved him throughout the season (not just the Pro Day), and a lot of the dipsh*ts on draft Twitter trying to claim that the Jets should have seen the signs are full of sh*t because (mostly) everyone was jerking off over Zach. In retrospect, the weak Covid schedule and the fact that Wilson was always playing from clean, giant pockets should have been bigger red flags*. Monson and Pallazollo conclude that the “lesson” in drafting Wilson was that it’s still a pretty good bet to invest in QBs that check a lot of boxes athletically, even if Zach sucked sh*t. Monson also says that no one could have known that Zach was a “douchebag,” even though there was plenty of literature on Zach being a douche. 
 

 

*I pointed this out repeatedly pre-draft. Matt Waldman also was big on this, and iirc Greg Cosell had a lot of doubts.

[JetsAddict]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Heard this earlier. The Cliff Notes for those that don’t care to listen: Zach had all the traits, all the scouts loved him throughout the season (not just the Pro Day), and a lot of the dipsh*ts on draft Twitter trying to claim that the Jets should have seen the signs are full of sh*t because (mostly) everyone was jerking off over Zach. In retrospect, the weak Covid schedule and the fact that Wilson was always playing from clean, giant pockets should have been bigger red flags*. Monson and Pallazollo conclude that the “lesson” in drafting Wilson was that it’s still a pretty good bet to invest in QBs that check a lot of boxes athletically, even if Zach sucked sh*t. Monson also says that no one could have known that Zach was a “douchebag,” even though there was plenty of literature on Zach being a douche. 
 

 

*I pointed this out repeatedly pre-draft. Matt Waldman also was big on this, and iirc Greg Cosell had a lot of doubts.

Yea but what did Suzyn Waldman think of Zach Wilson?

[Larz]

Cool.  Now what ?

[undertow]

Nothing said here is grounbreaking or hasn't been said before the real debate is how high Zach was taken not that he was drafted.  This is just a bunch of pansies trying to justify their high Zach WIlson draft rankings and formulas. 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

39 minutes ago, JetsAddict said:

Yea but what did Suzyn Waldman think of Zach Wilson?

Oh my goodness gracious.....

One of the worst moments in sports broadcasting history.

[BornJetsFan1983]

49 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Heard this earlier. The Cliff Notes for those that don’t care to listen: Zach had all the traits, all the scouts loved him throughout the season (not just the Pro Day), and a lot of the dipsh*ts on draft Twitter trying to claim that the Jets should have seen the signs are full of sh*t because (mostly) everyone was jerking off over Zach. In retrospect, the weak Covid schedule and the fact that Wilson was always playing from clean, giant pockets should have been bigger red flags*. Monson and Pallazollo conclude that the “lesson” in drafting Wilson was that it’s still a pretty good bet to invest in QBs that check a lot of boxes athletically, even if Zach sucked sh*t. Monson also says that no one could have known that Zach was a “douchebag,” even though there was plenty of literature on Zach being a douche. 
 

 

*I pointed this out repeatedly pre-draft. Matt Waldman also was big on this, and iirc Greg Cosell had a lot of doubts.

Fair

[maury77]

"They hate the way he looks under pressure" ..... ding ding ding, we have a winner. That was always the problem. 

[Beerfish]

Well the Jets two years later are doing what they should have done when he was drafted and what half the dumb assed fans knew.  Sit your ass for a few years and actually learn what the NFL demands behind a guy that can play.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Heard this earlier. The Cliff Notes for those that don’t care to listen: Zach had all the traits, all the scouts loved him throughout the season (not just the Pro Day), and a lot of the dipsh*ts on draft Twitter trying to claim that the Jets should have seen the signs are full of sh*t because (mostly) everyone was jerking off over Zach. In retrospect, the weak Covid schedule and the fact that Wilson was always playing from clean, giant pockets should have been bigger red flags*. Monson and Pallazollo conclude that the “lesson” in drafting Wilson was that it’s still a pretty good bet to invest in QBs that check a lot of boxes athletically, even if Zach sucked sh*t. Monson also says that no one could have known that Zach was a “douchebag,” even though there was plenty of literature on Zach being a douche. 
 

 

*I pointed this out repeatedly pre-draft. Matt Waldman also was big on this, and iirc Greg Cosell had a lot of doubts.

 

 

I want my quarterback a douche and holding people accountable.  To me, it's a positive trait.

When he puts it all together that "douche" quality will serve him well, if he never does then he's just a douche and not a gruff leader of men. 

 

He just needs to grow a sack, stand tall in the pocket, and slow the game down.  Nothing major. 

[fullblast]

I mean the weak schedule, the 25 year old offensive linemen and the douchey undertones were the 3 most obvious red flags from the start. wtf.

[Bronx]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

 (mostly) everyone was jerking off over Zach

@FidelioJet

[Jet Nut]

To be fair if I remember correctly, Fields struggled all game against North Westerns pressure.  And the criticism of Fields was he struggles against pressure.  Like most QBs they don’t like pressure.  

[derp]

It was as obvious that what he did in college wasn’t going to translate to the NFL as it was that he was physically talented. Naturally you hand a guy like that a starting job on a bad team with no viable alternatives.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, derp said:

It was as obvious that what he did in college wasn’t going to translate to the NFL as it was that he was physically talented. Naturally you hand a guy like that a starting job on a bad team with no viable alternatives.

100%. Brings me back to the debate we were having about Zach’s potential value on the trade market. The Jets clearly and without question screwed us his development timeline in egregious fashion. That much is clear. However, Zach is still the 23 year QB with traits that everyone (including the Eagles and Niners) allegedly loved throughout the draft process. There could still be a latent market for him with one of these better teams who have a second round pick laying around and who need or want a developmental qb to work with, but who know they aren’t finding one in this draft.

[Jdub03]

34 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

To be fair if I remember correctly, Fields struggled all game against North Westerns pressure.  And the criticism of Fields was he struggles against pressure.  Like most QBs they don’t like pressure.  

Fair, but he also showed he could overcome pressure in the game against Clemson. That was one of the greatest college performances that's I've seen.  Guy get smoked, injured ribs, comes back throwing dimes (6tds) and beat TL head to head.

I always liked him as prospect, but that sold me. He was my qb1 in the draft, ahead of Lawrence.

[T0mShane]

9 hours ago, undertow said:

This is just a bunch of pansies trying to justify their high Zach WIlson draft rankings and formulas. 

These past two weeks in Nerd Football Podcaster World was all about defending their babies Dak Prescott, Josh Allen, and Justin Herbert while at the same time finessing their bad draft takes about Jalen Hurts and hammering Brock Purdy’s run of success. 

[Jet Nut]

58 minutes ago, fullblast said:

I mean the weak schedule, the 25 year old offensive linemen and the douchey undertones were the 3 most obvious red flags from the start. wtf.

And the most odd takes ever.  The idea that other QBs played on much worse OLs, played difficult schedules while under constant pressure is comical.  
How many games was Ohio State or Clemson underdogs?  1? Any? 

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

These past two weeks in Nerd Football Podcaster World was all about defending their babies Dak Prescott, Josh Allen, and Justin Herbert while at the same time finessing their bad draft takes about Jalen Hurts and hammering Brock Purdy’s run of success. 

Defending Allen and Herbert doesn’t take a lot of finessing.  I’d kill for either being on my team.  
There’s a reason these guys have podcasts and not real programming 

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Defending Allen and Herbert doesn’t take a lot of finessing.  I’d kill for either being on my team.  
There’s a reason these guys have podcasts and not real programming 

Can you point to an example of “real programming” relating to sports that you’d describe as better or more credible than most podcasts? Sal Licata? Screamin’ Bart Scott? Craig Carton?

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Can you point to an example of “real programming” relating to sports that you’d describe as better or more credible than most podcasts? Sal Licata? Screamin’ Bart Scott? Craig Carton?

I like Scott.  He’s generally pretty good at backing his takes, whether I agree or not.  Just because Screaming Sal or Cartons comedic takes suck doesn’t make a podcast any better than on its own.  Not saying you can’t take anything away from some of them but if they’re trying hard to defend Allen and Herbert, I’d stop listening, those two don’t need their abilities defended. 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I like Scott.  He’s generally pretty good at backing his takes, whether I agree or not.  Just because Screaming Sal or Cartons comedic takes suck doesn’t make a podcast any better than on its own.  Not saying you can’t take anything away from some of them but if they’re trying hard to defend Allen and Herbert, I’d stop listening, those two don’t need their abilities defended. 

Ah. They’re defending Prescott, Allen and Herbert because they obsessively love them and have pumped them up so much. They’re defending them against mainstream narratives from the Stephen A’s and ESPN hot takes of the world. Disagree on Bart, though. He is brutal. 

[Warfish]

10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Heard this earlier. The Cliff Notes for those that don’t care to listen: Zach had all the traits, all the scouts loved him throughout the season (not just the Pro Day), and a lot of the dipsh*ts on draft Twitter trying to claim that the Jets should have seen the signs are full of sh*t because (mostly) everyone was jerking off over Zach. In retrospect, the weak Covid schedule and the fact that Wilson was always playing from clean, giant pockets should have been bigger red flags*. Monson and Pallazollo conclude that the “lesson” in drafting Wilson was that it’s still a pretty good bet to invest in QBs that check a lot of boxes athletically, even if Zach sucked sh*t. Monson also says that no one could have known that Zach was a “douchebag,” even though there was plenty of literature on Zach being a douche. 

*I pointed this out repeatedly pre-draft. Matt Waldman also was big on this, and iirc Greg Cosell had a lot of doubts.

Many of us saw Zach for what he is, and saw this outcome coming long before we made the pick. 

That doesn't make US the "dipsh*ts".

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Ah. They’re defending Prescott, Allen and Herbert because they obsessively love them and have pumped them up so much. They’re defending them against mainstream narratives from the Stephen A’s and ESPN hot takes of the world. Disagree on Bart, though. He is brutal. 

Stephen A and most of ESPNs mainstream turds takes are unlistenable.  What I like about Scott, if you get past his attempts at being entertaining is that he gives the defensive scheme the]at your watching or took place, what the QB should read and what the best way to attack that formation is.  He also isn’t afraid of criticizing a star player which, more on SNY as opposed to ESPN who rarely if ever criticizes star player as their afraid they’ll get frozen out of stories, coverage and most importantly interviews.  

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Many of us saw Zach for what he is, and saw this outcome coming long before we made the pick. 

That doesn't make US the "dipsh*ts".

How do you see this while not watching college football?  
How many BYU games did anyone who saw signs watch? 

 

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Many of us saw Zach for what he is, and saw this outcome coming long before we made the pick. 

That doesn't make US the "dipsh*ts".

The dipsh*ts are referring to the draft Twitter guys who, two years ago, were doing cut ups of his highlight throws and comparing him to Mahomes but are now doing things like saying “you don’t want to pull a Zach Wilson!,” referring to taking a bust QB based on arm talent and highlights. 

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Stephen A and most of ESPNs mainstream turds takes are unlistenable.  What I like about Scott, if you get past his attempts at being entertaining is that he gives the defensive scheme the]at your watching or took place, what the QB should read and what the best way to attack that formation is.  He also isn’t afraid of criticizing a star player which, more on SNY as opposed to ESPN who rarely if ever criticizes star player as their afraid they’ll get frozen out of stories, coverage and most importantly interviews.  

I know you live in Florida. Have you listened to Scott on his ESPN 1050 show at all? 

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I know you live in Florida. Have you listened to Scott on his ESPN 1050 show at all? 

I don’t like sports radio because of the high priority placed of being entertaining and their “hot takes”.  I guess I’m swayed more by his breakdown on SNY football shows, so maybe I’m not as turned off by a big chunk of what he does on air.  Maybe if I listened to more of his ESPN 1050 show I’d feel differently.  

[derp]

58 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

100%. Brings me back to the debate we were having about Zach’s potential value on the trade market. The Jets clearly and without question screwed us his development timeline in egregious fashion. That much is clear. However, Zach is still the 23 year QB with traits that everyone (including the Eagles and Niners) allegedly loved throughout the draft process. There could still be a latent market for him with one of these better teams who have a second round pick laying around and who need or want a developmental qb to work with, but who know they aren’t finding one in this draft.

I think there are a few things going on with Wilson that tied to who he was coming out. He had sloppy mechanics, didn’t play on script, played with better players than his opponents, and really didn’t get pressured so it was hard to tell how he handled pressure.

So sitting him made sense because the drafting team could drill mechanics, make sure he knew the scheme and what to do, and build up better talent so he went into a better situation.

Instead he goes right into a bad situation, formulates habits that reinforce the poor mechanics, and has problems schematically - all of which result in poor accuracy. All of that is something I could see a team thinking is fixable.

The big distinction from my perspective is the pressure thing. That went from not really knowing how he’d handle pressure because he wasn’t pressured in college to knowing he handles it at a league worst level. And my personal opinion is that handling pressure that poorly is a career killer. Maybe they find a team that feels differently or they can fix it, but that’s what I think kills his value.

I think he’s essentially Blaine Gabbert, who got traded for a sixth round pick after three years and hasn’t really played again. Some guys just don’t have it at this level and it becomes evident, that’s where I think he’s at.

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The dipsh*ts are referring to the draft Twitter guys who, two years ago, were doing cut ups of his highlight throws and comparing him to Mahomes but are now doing things like saying “you don’t want to pull a Zach Wilson!,” referring to taking a bust QB based on arm talent and highlights. 

I could take any players game and especially season tape and make a highlight tape that makes him look like Brady or edit up a lowlight video that makes him look like Jamarcus Russel 

You can get an idea about physical traits, arm strength and talent for example but highlights without the context of he game and game situations is pretty lame and can just cloud the issue

[Dunnie]

The only Monson I ever knew also went by 'Porkins' ... if you don't get the reference look it up. William Hootkins.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Dunnie

[varjet]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I could take any players game and especially season tape and make a highlight tape that makes him look like Brady or edit up a lowlight video that makes him look like Jamarcus Russel 

You can get an idea about physical traits, arm strength and talent for example but highlights without the context of he game and game situations is pretty lame and can just cloud the issue

Bill Polian was on Sirius XM NFL and he was saying that it was hard to choose between Leaf and Manning.  Could have gone either way.  But then he focused on what was between their ears, and work ethic and character, and then it was easy.  
 

It would appear from JD’s 2022 draft that he had the same revelation.  2020-2021, not so much.  

[Warfish]

24 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

How do you see this while not watching college football?  
How many BYU games did anyone who saw signs watch? 
 

They invented this wonderful thing called the internet, where one can watch all sorts of video, clips, highlights, full games, and read many reviews, opinions and more. 

But that's not the point.

Some people were big Zach guys.  They were wrong.  They should just own it, and not try and deflect from that or attack the people who were clearly correct about him. 

Feel free to go re-read the pre-draft threads here at JN, it's obvious who knew their sh*t and who didn't.  Obvious whose predictions were spot on, and whose weren't.

[Warfish]

7 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

The only Monson I ever knew also went by 'Porkins' ... if you don't get the reference look it up. William Hootkins.

[Dunnie]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

BRAVO ... and here he is as MONSON in the only film to star a JETS QB not names Namath ... Flash Gordon

Edited January 28, 2023 by Dunnie