OT: March Madness discussion

[Larz]

So happy with the quality of play, style of play, going to be a great final 4 

[frankiepapa]

Another great game.
This pisses some people off but college ball is 1000 times a better watch than the NBA.

The gap keeps getting wider too...I think the parity were seeing helps too

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[LockeJET]

Die hard Cane here!! Heading to Houston to watch live. Can’t wait!!

[PS17]

So, out of 36 entries in my bracket challenge, I’m the only one who had a final four team correct — and it was freaking Florida Atlantic. Lots of people were on Texas so with Miami beating them I’ve clinched and won the whole thing. What a game! Rooting for Miami and FAU the rest of the way. Love Larranaga and Miami’s style of play. 

[PS17]

3 minutes ago, LockeJET said:

Die hard Cane here!! Heading to Houston to watch live. Can’t wait!!

UConn is brutal. Good luck. Congrats and enjoy the FF. 

[Lith]

48 minutes ago, LockeJET said:

Die hard Cane here!! Heading to Houston to watch live. Can’t wait!!

Good luck.  Once in a lifetime experience.  Enjoy!!!

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Another great game.

This pisses some people off but college ball is 1000 times a better watch than the NBA.

indeed

[Lith]

1 hour ago, frankiepapa said:

The gap keeps getting wider too...I think the parity were seeing helps too

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
 

I think one of the things that creates parity is that the top teams get a bunch of one year guys who move on to the NBA, whereas the next tier tends to get real good players who play together for several seasons.  I think that makes a big difference, especially with the pressure of the tournament, having an experienced team that relies on each other and knows how to play together.

[frankiepapa]

I think one of the things that creates parity is that the top teams get a bunch of one year guys who move on to the NBA, whereas the next tier tends to get real good players who play together for several seasons.  I think that makes a big difference, especially with the pressure of the tournament, having an experienced team that relies on each other and knows how to play together.

I think this describes Miami...

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Another great game.

This pisses some people off but college ball is 1000 times a better watch than the NBA.

I agree 100%. The College game  is far superior to the product the nba puts out. NBA players are almost so good it’s boring. Oh I’m just going to dribble in place for 15 seconds and drill a 3 pointer from half court (yawn).  NBA there is almost 0 defense, Less motion, and less fun. March madness is a completely different beast.

[HawkeyeJet]

Caitlin Clark is the best player in college basketball male or female.  By a country mile.

[JohnnyLV]

8 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

I’m not an nba fan but how can u not love march madness! 

Just not my thing. I find basketball very repetitive and the only one I know of where intentionally fouling can help you win.

[RutgersJetFan]

10 hours ago, Lith said:

I think one of the things that creates parity is that the top teams get a bunch of one year guys who move on to the NBA, whereas the next tier tends to get real good players who play together for several seasons.  I think that makes a big difference, especially with the pressure of the tournament, having an experienced team that relies on each other and knows how to play together.

Transfer portal and NIL completely opened everything up. That’s why Miami is in.

[RutgersJetFan]

11 hours ago, frankiepapa said:

I think this describes Miami...

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
 

Look I like the Canes and think NIL is a good thing, but let's be real, Miami is in the Final Four because they paid guys like 800k to transfer there (which I'm for, btw). Larranaga has even admitted it all throughout the tourney, which I think is dope. If you're going to do it at least own it.

[Biggs]

Great turnament.  The elimination aspect and amount of competitive teams this year is fantastic.  Sadly regular season college BB is like watching paint dry.  Without the elimination aspect games simply aren't compelling.  

As bad as the NBA is and as unwatchable as most playoff games are, 15 minutes of a regular season NBA game is still more watchable than 15 minutes of a college basketball game.  

The NBA should go to a 1 and done format.  Nothing like it.  

[RutgersJetFan]

5 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Great turnament.  The elimination aspect and amount of competitive teams this year is fantastic.  Sadly regular season college BB is like watching paint dry.  Without the elimination aspect games simply aren't compelling.  

As bad as the NBA is and as unwatchable as most playoff games are, 15 minutes of a regular season NBA game is still more watchable than 15 minutes of a college basketball game.  

The NBA should go to a 1 and done format.  Nothing like it.  

Lol lotta truth to this. Plenty of nights I'm watching the Big 10 Network in January asking myself wtf am I doing right now.

[Biggs]

29 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Lol lotta truth to this. Plenty of nights I'm watching the Big 10 Network in January asking myself wtf am I doing right now.

If you're not an outright gambling junkie the games are pitiful and total lack any tension or drama.  

[RutgersJetFan]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

If you're not an outright gambling junkie the games are pitiful and total lack any tension or drama.  

If you’re a major part of a uni it’s really the only reason to be watching most games up until the conference tournaments. You do get to catch some gems from time to time. 

[Dcat]

39 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

If you’re a major part of a uni it’s really the only reason to be watching most games up until the conference tournaments. You do get to catch some gems from time to time. 

conference tournaments were outstanding this year.  Overall, a solid year for all CBB

[RutgersJetFan]

43 minutes ago, Dcat said:

conference tournaments were outstanding this year.  Overall, a solid year for all CBB

I think it's only going to continue to get better. The NCAA is only going to try and rein some of this in but states have already made laws protecting NIL so I have no idea how they'll make that work. Almost every school out there has rich alum that want to dip their hands in this stuff, so have at it I say. Especially if the alternatives are the NCAA letting these kids eat grilled cheese off of radiators for dinner.

[PS17]

4 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I think it's only going to continue to get better. The NCAA is only going to try and rein some of this in but states have already made laws protecting NIL so I have no idea how they'll make that work. Almost every school out there has rich alum that want to dip their hands in this stuff, so have at it I say. Especially if the alternatives are the NCAA letting these kids eat grilled cheese off of radiators for dinner.

[Beerfish]

The woman's game has come a long long long ways in a fairly short period of time.  Not that long ago it was a bit of a joke watching those games but the extra exposure and playing up their tournament has been really good to be honest.

This Caitlin Clark is quite amazing.

Iowa pulls the big upset.  Iowa vs LSU in their championship game.

[HawkeyeJet]

On 3/26/2023 at 10:04 PM, HawkeyeJet said:

Caitlin Clark is the best player in college basketball male or female.  By a country mile.

Told ya

[Jetsfan80]

On 3/27/2023 at 8:33 AM, Biggs said:

Great turnament.  The elimination aspect and amount of competitive teams this year is fantastic.  Sadly regular season college BB is like watching paint dry.  Without the elimination aspect games simply aren't compelling.  

As bad as the NBA is and as unwatchable as most playoff games are, 15 minutes of a regular season NBA game is still more watchable than 15 minutes of a college basketball game.  

The NBA should go to a 1 and done format.  Nothing like it.  

^^^ Clearly hasn’t ever watched a good mid-major regular season game.

Most conferences in America are 1-bid leagues.  Thus there are some absolute dogfights even in January.  Not all of them or even many of them are high quality but there’s always entertainment value in rivalry type games.  

[talisaynon]

Caitlin Clark got me watching Women's College Bball

[Dcat]

9 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

^^^ Clearly hasn’t ever watched a good mid-major regular season game.

Most conferences in America are 1-bid leagues.  Thus there are some absolute dogfights even in January.  Not all of them or even many of them are high quality but there’s always entertainment value in rivalry type games.  

I love conference play in Jan-Feb and the conf tournaments more than the NCAA and NIT.  The conference battles are fantastic.  He hasn't been watching obviously.  It's the NBA I can barely stomach any more.  

[Jetsfan80]

14 minutes ago, Dcat said:

I love conference play in Jan-Feb and the conf tournaments more than the NCAA and NIT.  The conference battles are fantastic.  He hasn't been watching obviously.  It's the NBA I can barely stomach any more.  

Yep.  Best time of the year for college basketball are the mid-major conference tournaments and the opening Thursday/Friday of the NCAAT.  

Anyone who is relying on the P6 teams to provide them with any/all college bball entertainment is missing out.  

One day the P6’s are going to break off from the NCAA to form their own association and the game will become very boring.  

[Dcat]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep.  Best time of the year for college basketball are the mid-major conference tournaments and the opening Thursday/Friday of the NCAAT.  

Anyone who is relying on the P6 teams to provide them with any/all college bball entertainment is missing out.  

One day the P6’s are going to break off from the NCAA to form their own association and the game will become very boring.  

form a betting standpoint, the power 6 games were the most difficult.  Mid majors and below results for me were really good. 

[JoeFan]

1 hour ago, talisaynon said:

Caitlin Clark got me watching Women's College Bball

 She is the reason that I watched.  She plays like a female Steph Curry.  Amazingly, she missed some shots that she probably usually makes, and still scored 41 points.  
I was very impressed by her handle and by how good a passer she is.  
It was great to watch skill beat sheer size.

[PS17]

3 hours ago, JoeFan said:

 She is the reason that I watched.  She plays like a female Steph Curry.  Amazingly, she missed some shots that she probably usually makes, and still scored 41 points.  
I was very impressed by her handle and by how good a passer she is.  
It was great to watch skill beat sheer size.

She does look like Curry. Unlimited range, extremely good finisher at the rim, quick as hell, excellent distributor, swagger. I’ve never paid attention to women’s basketball before but she is box office, as the kids say. 

[Lith]

13 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

^^^ Clearly hasn’t ever watched a good mid-major regular season game.

Most conferences in America are 1-bid leagues.  Thus there are some absolute dogfights even in January.  Not all of them or even many of them are high quality but there’s always entertainment value in rivalry type games.  

On the other hand, since these mid-majors all have post season tournaments to decide the bids, the regular season is largely meaningless when it comes to making the tournament.  On occasion you get a mid-major grabbing an at large bid, but it is rare.  For most of these teams, one week in March means more than a 3-month season.

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, Lith said:

On the other hand, since these mid-majors all have post season tournaments to decide the bids, the regular season is largely meaningless when it comes to making the tournament.  On occasion you get a mid-major grabbing an at large bid, but it is rare.  For most of these teams, one week in March means more than a 3-month season.

1) The seeding in the conference tournaments absolutely matter.  Some leagues offer byes only to the top 2, top 4 seeds, etc.  Some leagues are huge and require a play-in round, and no one wants to have to win 4 or 5 straight in their league tourney to win their tourney title.  Very rarely do teams in the bottom half of their league's regular season go on to win their conference tourney.  Even if the 1st or 2nd-place team fails to win it usually ends up being someone in that 3rd-5th range.  So seeding absolutely matters in that regard, and thus, so does the regular season.  

2) The # 1 seed in each conference gets an auto-bid to the NIT if they do not win their conference tourney (which happens a lot).  This isn't a big deal in bigger leagues, but in smaller ones, having an autobid locked up for the NIT by finishing 1st is indeed a big deal.  An NIT bid and some success there can be a springboard to bigger things.  And the alternative for those schools is to go to a postseason tournament like the CBI, where its pay-to-play.  

3) A strong regular season also means a better seed in the NCAAT for a conference winner.  The difference between an 11/12 seed in the NCAAT and, say, a 15, can be massive, even if we've seen a lot more 15/2 upsets and a couple 16/1s.  3 of the past mid-major cinderellas who made the Final 4 (George Mason in '06, VCU in 2011, Loyola Chicago in 2018 - all were mid-majors during their runs in their pre-A10 days) were all 11-seeds.  

[Lith]

52 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

1) The seeding in the conference tournaments absolutely matter.  Some leagues offer byes only to the top 2, top 4 seeds, etc.  Some leagues are huge and require a play-in round, and no one wants to have to win 4 or 5 straight in their league tourney to win their tourney title.  Very rarely do teams in the bottom half of their league's regular season go on to win their conference tourney.  Even if the 1st or 2nd-place team fails to win it usually ends up being someone in that 3rd-5th range.  So seeding absolutely matters in that regard, and thus, so does the regular season.  

2) The # 1 seed in each conference gets an auto-bid to the NIT if they do not win their conference tourney (which happens a lot).  This isn't a big deal in bigger leagues, but in smaller ones, having an autobid locked up for the NIT by finishing 1st is indeed a big deal.  An NIT bid and some success there can be a springboard to bigger things.  And the alternative for those schools is to go to a postseason tournament like the CBI, where its pay-to-play.  

3) A strong regular season also means a better seed in the NCAAT for a conference winner.  The difference between an 11/12 seed in the NCAAT and, say, a 15, can be massive, even if we've seen a lot more 15/2 upsets and a couple 16/1s.  3 of the past mid-major cinderellas who made the Final 4 (George Mason in '06, VCU in 2011, Loyola Chicago in 2018 - all were mid-majors during their runs in their pre-A10 days) were all 11-seeds.  

But still,, these teams are playing a 16 - 20 game conference schedule just to determine seeding.  And then you have one bad performance in a post season tournament and it all means little.  In the big conferences, teams have multiple ways to get in.  I love the tournament, but I hate the way the post season tournaments have cheapened the regular season.  The NIT bid is a good point, but playing an entire season just for seeding for a 5 day tournament, I hate that.  If you want the best teams to represent the mid=majors, it should be the team that won its conference over the course of a regular season schedule.  Just my two cents.

 

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, Lith said:

But still,, these teams are playing a 16 - 20 game conference schedule just to determine seeding.  And then you have one bad performance in a post season tournament and it all means little.  In the big conferences, teams have multiple ways to get in.  I love the tournament, but I hate the way the post season tournaments have cheapened the regular season.  The NIT bid is a good point, but playing an entire season just for seeding for a 5 day tournament, I hate that.  If you want the best teams to represent the mid=majors, it should be the team that won its conference over the course of a regular season schedule.  Just my two cents.

Certainly a worthwhile debate there.  Every conference has the option of how they award their conference champ.  Only one has opted to give the regular season champ the autobid (Ivy League).  

There's just too much money and exposure for these leagues to turn down the conference tourney opportunity, sadly.  That brief glimpse of the top 2 teams facing off on ESPN or ESPN2 in primetime is just too difficult to turn down.

Instead, leagues have tried to get as creative as possible in HOW those conference tourneys operate in order to protect the top seed(s).  Some use homesite locations for the higher seeds.  Personally, I think that option makes your league look a little bush - especially since lots of these teams play in glorified HS gyms.  I prefer the neutral site location.  Some use double byes.  Some don't let every team in the league participate.  Some of these advantages for higher seeds work better than others.

One thing to keep in mind:  Not all of these leagues have balanced schedules as they don't play everyone in their league twice.  Usually it happens like that in an effort to try to save on travel costs by setting up North/South or East/West divisions, travel partners, etc.  So a team may finish their regular season with the best record in the league while having played a much weaker schedule than a team that finished 2nd or 3rd.  The conference tourney evens playing field a good bit for these leagues.

It's far from a perfect system but it definitely generates a lot of entertaining basketball for these mid-majors, both in the regular season AND the conference tourney.  

[Lith]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Certainly a worthwhile debate there.  Every conference has the option of how they award their conference champ.  Only one has opted to give the regular season champ the autobid (Ivy League).  

Ivy League has a post season tournament now, Ivy Madness.  Top 4 teams from the regular season make it.   I am a Penn grad.  We lost the last game of the regular season against Princeton this year.  Finished 3rd in conference instead of co-champs.  I did not really care because we had another shot in the Tourney.  Lost then too so it did not really matter.

I get why they have tournaments and they have to make it mean something.  Does not mean I have to like it.