Lamar Jackson Requests Trade

[Scott Dierking]

4 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I firmly believe that teams taking a position of not wanting to discuss a fully guaranteed contract is sensible and not collusion.

However, there are two elements at play simultaneously here.  The other being no agent.

Disclaimer: I am NOT a black helicopters guy.  Just speculating completely with no evidence of any kind.

If any agents were implying that they would be unfavorably inclined towards any GM who signed Lamar because of the no agent thing, that would be collusion and would result in a sh-tstorm of epic proportions.  Now I firmly believe we will never see a hint of that come out, but I can't say for sure it wouldn't have happened at some point. 

If you were a GM and CAA and Drew Rosenhaus separately suggested they weren't fans of teams doing that deal, would it give you pause?  They would certainly have plenty of reason to be opposed to it becoming a trend and a big name like Lamar would shine a bright light on it for other players.

The NFL, just by how it bargains is a collusive force. They work all their deals collectively. It is the way they are structured. 

Now, someone occasionally gets out of line (a Jerry jones with his own product endorsements). But generally, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. 

[nycdan]

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Yup, just the way mlb did it. Multiple times. Stupidly. A smart consortium would at least have a few clubs kick the tires, actually talk with the guy and give a dog and pony show. But they go balls in and really punish the guy. 

Nothing more transparent than a bunch of billionaires in a league that is a monopoly, pulling strings on players and getting them in line.

I am being a little facetious. Only a little. I have seen this act before.

I like how you compare only offering $140M over 3 years or so guaranteed to 'getting them in line'.  

it's not about the salary.  It's about the salary cap and that makes ALL the difference.

As long as there is a cap, teams have to consider the impact of a player on guaranteed salary getting injured and blowing up the team for several years as a result.  Lamar whining about his insufficient offer doesn't draw a line to collusion.  If he hadn't gotten a serious offer from the Ravens, then maybe there would be something there but I think that ship has long since sailed.  If QBs didn't count against the cap, he would probably have gotten what he wanted in a heartbeat.

He just wants what he wants and without even having the benefit of professional representation, he's set a hard course for himself.  When most of the recent QB contracts already look like crap from the moment they were signed,  let alone a year later, teams have solid, factual reasons to be hesitant. 

He'll get lots of support from the butter-churners of the media looking to play the race card, but beyond that, I'm not seeing it.

[Dunnie]

No one is acting in solidarity with their rivals.  No one is colluding. 
There are no black helicopters over your house, the 2020 election wasn't stolen, contrails aren't chemtrails, and aliens aren't visiting you to probe your bumhole.....
Individual teams GM's (and owners) are making individual decisions on a player with no agent representing/counseling him, that his demands are unreasonable for the injury risk, the passing production, the play style, and the odds of the Ravens matching any reasonable offer they might make.
Fans can whine all they want, and wear all the tin foil hats they want, this is all on Lamar Jackson.  Like RGIII before him, he thinks he's bigger than the game, and worth alot more than he is. 
Hire an agent, get real about your compensation demands, and he'd be signed, very VERY well compensated, and done at this point.

Sanity does exist !!!

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Warfish said:

No one is acting in solidarity with their rivals.  No one is colluding. 

 

You have no basis to say this, just as I have no basis in my statements. What we provide here are opinions. None of us actually has a direct phone line with each NFL owner which provides input to their thoughts and dealings in inner circles.

But for me, where there is smoke, there is usually fire. And it is not the first time in this sport, and certainly sport in general.

Don't be so quick to just shoot down an opinion because it does not jive with yours.

[Warfish]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

You have no basis to say this, just as I have no basis in my statements. What we provide here are opinions. None of us actually has a direct phone line with each NFL owner which provides input to their thoughts and dealings in inner circles.

But for me, where there is smoke, there is usually fire. And it is not the first time in this sport, and certainly sport in general.

Don't be so quick to just shoot down an opinion because it does not jive with yours.

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, nycdan said:

 

He'll get lots of support from the butter-churners of the media looking to play the race card, but beyond that, I'm not seeing it.

This is such a side point, it is sad to just bring it up.  

[extmenace]

The owners of these franchises are successful businessman. They do not want to set a precedent of where a quarterback demands a fully guaranteed contract, demands a trade, and then gets it. Regardless of how much interest a team may have for Lamar, the owners will not stab each other in the back and make things harder to operate in the future. Lamar will not get what he wants, this is strictly business.

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

The NFL, just by how it bargains is a collusive force. They work all their deals collectively. It is the way they are structured. 

Now, someone occasionally gets out of line (a Jerry jones with his own product endorsements). But generally, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. 

As a professional sports league, you have a choice to make.  Have rules that create guardrails or have teams that buy championships.  How much fun is it for a league where the same 4 teams are the only contenders every year and half the teams start the season knowing they have no legitimate shot to compete for a championship or even a playoff spot.  As it is, parity is a sketchy thing in the NFL but it's far, far better than, say, MLB or the NBA. 

The NBA has now become an annual rite of three stars agreeing to meet up in some city and win a ring.  Don't like your team?  Whine publicly until they trade you.  Television ratings are way down.  Is there correlation there?  Seems likely to me.  Basically the system is broken but they don't know how to put the genie back in the bottle so they promote their trash product and smile anyway. 

I would hate to see the NFL go that way.  It's already started a little bit with players blasting their way off of teams, but it's not as bad....yet.  And yes, I do see that there is some of that happening with the Jets this year and I love it as a fan.  But if it were happening with the Fins or Pats, we would absolutely hate it and I can still see that.

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

This is such a side point, it is sad to just bring it up.  

Are you even remotely suggesting that race isn't a factor for some people?  Because there are more tweets than you could read in a lifetime saying just that.

[BeaconJet]

Every owner finally wising up about guaranteed contracts =/= collusion. 

[JetPotato]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

aliens aren't visiting you to probe your bumhole.....

Why you gotta crush my dreams, bro?

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

As a professional sports league, you have a choice to make.  Have rules that create guardrails or have teams that buy championships.  How much fun is it for a league where the same 4 teams are the only contenders every year and half the teams start the season knowing they have no legitimate shot to compete for a championship or even a playoff spot.  As it is, parity is a sketchy thing in the NFL but it's far, far better than, say, MLB or the NBA. 

The NBA has now become an annual rite of three stars agreeing to meet up in some city and win a ring.  Don't like your team?  Whine publicly until they trade you.  Television ratings are way down.  Is there correlation there?  Seems likely to me.  Basically the system is broken but they don't know how to put the genie back in the bottle so they promote their trash product and smile anyway. 

I would hate to see the NFL go that way.  It's already started a little bit with players blasting their way off of teams, but it's not as bad....yet.  And yes, I do see that there is some of that happening with the Jets this year and I love it as a fan.  But if it were happening with the Fins or Pats, we would absolutely hate it and I can still see that.

The NbA stars are probably underpaid relative to what the middle guys make (who are overpaid). The structure itself sucks for the fan. Especially with the recent load management culture.

[Scott Dierking]

4 minutes ago, nycdan said:

As a professional sports league, you have a choice to make.  Have rules that create guardrails or have teams that buy championships.  How much fun is it for a league where the same 4 teams are the only contenders every year and half the teams start the season knowing they have no legitimate shot to compete for a championship or even a playoff spot.  As it is, parity is a sketchy thing in the NFL but it's far, far better than, say, MLB or the NBA. 

The NBA has now become an annual rite of three stars agreeing to meet up in some city and win a ring.  Don't like your team?  Whine publicly until they trade you.  Television ratings are way down.  Is there correlation there?  Seems likely to me.  Basically the system is broken but they don't know how to put the genie back in the bottle so they promote their trash product and smile anyway. 

I would hate to see the NFL go that way.  It's already started a little bit with players blasting their way off of teams, but it's not as bad....yet.  And yes, I do see that there is some of that happening with the Jets this year and I love it as a fan.  But if it were happening with the Fins or Pats, we would absolutely hate it and I can still see that.

In the last 10 years, MLB has had 8 different champions. 

[nycdan]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

In the last 10 years, MLB has had 8 different champions. 

MLB has had at least some sort of salary cap since then.  Before that George Steinbrenner's money was worth more to the team's success than any GM or Coach they brought in (with all apologies to Joe Torre).  And yes, Yankee fans can blast away at this, but seriously guys...it was a thing.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

You know how many years you have to go back to find 45 wins from the NY Jets?  

I know you love the guy, but teams win, not QBs.  This isn't tennis.  When you look at the QBs who got the big contracts the past two years - Watson, Wilson, Murray, Rodgers - why would any other NFL teams follow suit?  Those contracts are horrible.  

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

In the last 10 years, MLB has had 8 different champions. 

There is also a minor league where many of the players have to sit in purgatory.

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

I know you love the guy, but teams win, not QBs.  This isn't tennis.  When you look at the QBs who got the big contracts the past two years - Watson, Wilson, Murray, Rodgers - why would any other NFL teams follow suit?  Those contracts are horrible.  

For contrast, Joe Flacco had 54 wins during his first 5 seasons in Baltimore. And then they paid him….

[Flea Flicking Frank]

The collusion angle is stupid..... If this was Mahomes, you would have every owner running to guarantee him as much money as it took.

When its obvious that the risk exceeds the reward, its a bad business decision, and does not take collusion to come to the obvious answer

[Scott Dierking]

15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

If you want to have a tangible discussion on a subject, I will have it with you. As I mentioned before neither of us has any real insight to what is actually happening and why. These are just opinions. 

I will reasonably "argue" a side with you, but if you choose to treat my opinion as lunacy, just because it does not coincide with yours, I will consider your point moot also.

[Matt39]

7 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

If you want to have a tangible discussion on a subject, I will have it with you. As I mentioned before neither of us has any real insight to what is actually happening and why. These are just opinions. 

I will reasonably "argue" a side with you, but if you choose to treat my opinion as lunacy, just because it does not coincide with yours, I will consider your point moot also.

There seems to be a collective agreement with this player that he’s not worth counting at max value against the cap for 5 straight seasons. The Patriots built a dynasty in part because Brady took less than his relative market value. If the argument is to get rid of the cap entirely then let’s have it. But if there is a cap this whole player/labor vs owner slap fight isn’t based in any sort of fact.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

48 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

100%. The agreement is clearly to never give out another fully guaranteed deal. Lamar just happens to be the first guy running into it.

how did this happen, on their yachts with no other witnesses other than the owners themselves? 

Or was it email? 

Or do they have some secret mechanisms for communication that only rich good ole boys have?

You realize if there was ever proof of the collusion, it could crush the NFL and at a min would give enormous leverage to the players.

In addition, if Mahomes was suddenly available, you don't think multiple teams would offer him whatever guarantee he wants?

Again, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that the risk is nowhere near the reward with Jackson, it doesn't take collusion to realize how bad of business a deal like that would be and how much risk you are absorbing by offering a player who generates his stats the way he does, an enormous fully guaranteed deal and multiple first round picks.

 

[HighPitch]

Whats the big deal? Whats with all this evil collusion talk? 
Its still a free market. If a player thinks he is worth more than what anyone is willing to pay then he is out of work.

end of story.

Why cant all teachers get a $ 1M salary? Oh because no school board would pay it? Is that collusion or just common sense

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I'm truly enjoying the level of Lamar-based butthurt you're feeling this offseason.

I'm equally as entertained by the amount of ignorant moronic takes when it comes one of the leagues most dynamic Superstars. 

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

There seems to be a collective agreement with this player that he’s not worth counting at max value against the cap for 5 straight seasons. The Patriots built a dynasty in part because Brady took less than his relative market value. If the argument is to get rid of the cap entirely then let’s have it. But if there is a cap this whole player/labor vs owner slap fight isn’t based in any sort of fact.

The ravens are a good organization, and they probably realize that they’re not winning it again with this type of qb.  They would probably love a team to swoop in and overpay for him.

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

The ravens are a good organization, and they probably realize that they’re not winning it again with this type of qb.  They would probably love a team to swoop in and overpay for him.

I mean they’ve been a sustained winner for close to 25 years now. As I said earlier, Flacco had more wins than Lamar over his first 5 years as Ravens QB.

[JustInFudge]

32 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Wait, what?  The super duper clean and legitimate owners of the NFL have done this in the past?  Ya dont say.

[Warfish]

9 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'm equally as entertained by the amount of ignorant moronic takes when it comes one of the leagues most dynamic Superstars. 

Tasty, tasty tears, bring me more, I want to bathe in them!

[Barry McCockinner]

I have also demanded 200 million for my services over the next 4 years. It appears every company in existence is colluding against me. There are no MVP awards in my field but if there were I would have received several over the past decade.

[Bruce Harper]

If everyone arrives at the same common sense conclusion is that really collusion?

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I have also demanded 200 million for my services over the next 4 years. It appears every company in existence is colluding against me. There are no MVP awards in my field but if there were I would have received several over the past decade.

If it were mahomes, there would be a bidding war.  But he’s not mahomes. 

[Barry McCockinner]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

If it were mahomes, there would be a bidding war.  But he’s not mahomes. 

agreed

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, Bruce Harper said:

If everyone arrives at the same common sense conclusion is that really collusion?

This is not allowed. If a good player has demands and is a free agent someone has to give it to them.

[Scott Dierking]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

If everyone arrives at the same common sense conclusion is that really collusion?

It depends, did they do it in concert, or of their own volition? Unanimously. 

I don't know, but seems suspicious. Maybe not.

But sports have been guilt of it many times.

[AFJF]

26 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

If you want to have a tangible discussion on a subject, I will have it with you. As I mentioned before neither of us has any real insight to what is actually happening and why. These are just opinions. 

I will reasonably "argue" a side with you, but if you choose to treat my opinion as lunacy, just because it does not coincide with yours, I will consider your point moot also.

But we do know he was offered a fully guaranteed contract at $44.3 million per year while people claim that this is all happening because the league is colluding to avoid giving out....fully guaranteed contracts.