Corey Davis

[Warfish]

12 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You've said that before.  I'm not sure I get your thinking.  How many snaps did Jimmy Graham take from the slot?  Why do you think Wilson playing slot would be "a waste?"  Was it a waste when Cooper Kupp played from the slot?  It just gets them an easier release.  IMO a good outside receiver can excel in the slot, but not all good slot receivers will thrive outside.

Yeah, all fair, maybe I'm a bit too wedded to the shifty, small, big-play-guy slot type.

I just don't see Lazard making big plays in the slot.  Possession-type plays, sure, red zone, yeah, that could certainly be thing, but not big gains, he's too slow.  But I guess in part that depends on how much coverage Wilson/Davis would pull if they're on the outside (or vice versa, if everyone is playing every spot at WR). 

Freely admit I could be wrong on this group, but I guess I'm just less impressed with it than you all.  It's a pretty pedestrian group beyond Wilson.  But maybe Rodgers can make it great.

[Warfish]

11 minutes ago, FloridaJetsFan said:

Good Lord - You are SUCH a Negative Nancy!!!! No wonder you live in your mother's basement ...

Asking a question and perhaps wanting a better WR is now being a "negative Nancy" eh?  

Might want to let all the other guys in the "draft Jaxon Smith-Njigba" thread how negative they are, lol.

P.S. My mother doesn't have a Basement.  

[Rhg1084]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yeah, all fair, maybe I'm a bit too wedded to the shifty, small, big-play-guy slot type.

I just don't see Lazard making big plays in the slot.  Possession-type plays, sure, red zone, yeah, that could certainly be thing, but not big gains, he's too slow.  But I guess in part that depends on how much coverage Wilson/Davis would pull if they're on the outside (or vice versa, if everyone is playing every spot at WR). 

Freely admit I could be wrong on this group, but I guess I'm just less impressed with it than you all.  It's a pretty pedestrian group beyond Wilson.  But maybe Rodgers can make it great.

It’s an above average group. GW is elite so that obviously raises the group as a whole. But when you’re comparing our unit to some of the others around the league we’re definitely top 5 at least. I’d rank the league wide WRs units as: 

Cincy

Philly

Miami

Jets

 

[Chrebetfan80]

6 minutes ago, jgb said:

Will also be nice to have a big boy offensive scheme that doesn't have to be "simplified" (read: dumbed down) by week 6 because the Jets QB du jour can't process it.

I think more than ever you will see the distinction this year between being a good coach and being a good teacher.  I dont think MLF is a bad coach, I think he was a bad teacher, or at least a very unwilling one. 

From all accounts so far Hackett is a phenomenal teacher of the game, which i think will really translate to us seeing an uptick in production from some of out younger players on offense (hopefully of the QB variety too). 

[PepPep]

23 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Who plays the slot?

Wilson, Davis and Lazard are all outside type WR's.  I truly hope the plan isn't to waste Wilson in the slot.

Hardman is not a solution IMO, anymore than Berrios was.  Mims, lol?

This unit could still use some real help, hopefully JD finds a way in this draft.

As many have already noted. Lazard CAN play a big slot. Should he? I dunno, I don't nec. have an issue with it. Will he? I believe yes, he will be used that way, but I'm not sure he will be the primary slot guy.

And finding a role player to fill in the slot position (where a chunk of the plays will be taken away by Lazard anyway) either in the 2nd wave of FA (post draft) or in the draft itself cannot possibly be that difficult. Heck, even a guy like Dionte Spencer could break through to take on that role. Or JD could draft a slot receiver in Rd. 5 (we now have two 5th round picks). Hard to say who will be available in Rd. 5 but you would think guys like Moreno-Cropper, Rakim Jarrett or Demario Douglas will definitely be there. Shifty, speedy, slot receivers who would be more role players than anything else. 

This is not a major concern for me. 

*Sidenote: Same with DT. So many on here have the Jets taking a DT early. Sure, but ONLY if someone they highly covet falls to them. The 'need' is not there. Yes, they could use depth. Yes, they could use a true run stuffer. But they just signed Quinton Jefferson (an attacking/penetrating DT) to fill the void that Rankins created. Apart from bringing in some cheap depth, they are pretty much set on the D-line.  

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yeah, all fair, maybe I'm a bit too wedded to the shifty, small, big-play-guy slot type.

I just don't see Lazard making big plays in the slot.  Possession-type plays, sure, red zone, yeah, that could certainly be thing, but not big gains, he's too slow.  But I guess in part that depends on how much coverage Wilson/Davis would pull if they're on the outside (or vice versa, if everyone is playing every spot at WR). 

Freely admit I could be wrong on this group, but I guess I'm just less impressed with it than you all.  It's a pretty pedestrian group beyond Wilson.  But maybe Rodgers can make it great.

Hardman runs a 4.33 (98th percentile of NFL WRs); G. Wilson runs a 4.38 (94th percentile).

Both Corey Davis and Lazard are 57th and 49th percentile, respectively.

This group is plenty fast. I'd expect a rotation of sorts in where these guys line up to keep defenses guessing. Rodgers can adjust on the fly and doesn't need vanilla setups to know WTF is going on, unlike another Jets QB we know.

[Guilhermezmc]

At this point is not worth trading him for a 4th or a 5th IMO. Let Lazard and Hardman play the slot with Corey and GW on the outside. Focus on protect Aaron and Let him do his magic. Oh and we need another RB

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Hardman runs a 4.33 (98th percentile of NFL WRs); G. Wilson runs a 4.38 (94th percentile).

Both Corey Davis and Lazard are 57th and 49th percentile, respectively.

This group is plenty fast. I'd expect a rotation of sorts in where these guys line up to keep defenses guessing. Rodgers can adjust on the fly and doesn't need vanilla setups to know WTF is going on, unlike another Jets QB we know.

Ok, perhaps my doubts are ill founded.  

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Ok, perhaps my doubts are ill founded.  

Hardman leads the group in 3-cone with a 76th percentile. That is, obviously, very good, but I am partial to a guy above 90th to be a major contributor in the slot. Garrett Wilson didn't run it FYI, so same to assume it wouldn't have been elite.

I'd target such a guy in round 3/4 this draft.

[Dcat]

33 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You've said that before.  I'm not sure I get your thinking.  How many snaps did Jimmy Graham take from the slot?  Why do you think Wilson playing slot would be "a waste?"  Was it a waste when Cooper Kupp played from the slot?  It just gets them an easier release.  IMO a good outside receiver can excel in the slot, but not all good slot receivers will thrive outside.

Not to mention that Garrett Wilson has the outstanding talent to line up in any WR position.  He's a gem.

[Morrissey]

51 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Who plays the slot?

Wilson, Davis and Lazard are all outside type WR's.  I truly hope the plan isn't to waste Wilson in the slot.

Hardman is not a solution IMO, anymore than Berrios was.  Mims, lol?

This unit could still use some real help, hopefully JD finds a way in this draft.

"Waste in the slot" like Copper Kupp?

[Lurker89]

I like having Corey Davis... I'm not trying to chase him out of town. When healthy hes a good reciever... he'll never live up to being the 5th overall pick, but that's not our problem.

He'll have the best QB hes ever played with... I'm looking forward to seeing him be healthy and do something with it.

[Lurker89]

Play CD or Lazard as a big slot...

[GKnight83]

There is nothing preventing the Jets from trading him during the draft.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Integrity28]

He’s not as bad as the complaining about him. He’s just not a 1. 

[T0mShane]

38 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Lazard, much like @T0mShaneis what we call a big slot

Zone teams aren’t playing small guys in the slot anymore because they want the slot to be able to seal the corner. 

[Kelly to Allen no huddle]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

He’s not as bad as the complaining about him. He’s just not a 1. 

There are so many jets the past couple years that are probably much better than jets fans think because the QB was so horrid it hid lots of talent. 

The frustration was probably way worse than ppl realize 

[undertow]

All the couch GMs and salary cap experts told me we needed to cut Davis, Lawson, and Tomlinson to get under the cap. lmao  Same dipsh*ts who are worried about being in salary cap hell in the year 2025.

[#27TheDominator]

21 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yeah, all fair, maybe I'm a bit too wedded to the shifty, small, big-play-guy slot type.

I just don't see Lazard making big plays in the slot.  Possession-type plays, sure, red zone, yeah, that could certainly be thing, but not big gains, he's too slow.  But I guess in part that depends on how much coverage Wilson/Davis would pull if they're on the outside (or vice versa, if everyone is playing every spot at WR). 

Freely admit I could be wrong on this group, but I guess I'm just less impressed with it than you all.  It's a pretty pedestrian group beyond Wilson.  But maybe Rodgers can make it great.

I'm not super impressed with them, but I am a little higher on them than you are.  Lazard is not a rocket ship, but he ran a 4.55 and was a pretty explosive leaper IIRC.  His long play has been over 40 yards in each of the last 4 years with a 72 yarder in 2021.  Chunk plays are nice, but TDs and 1st downs are the actual key.  With Davis still on board I think they are a very solid group.  It will be interesting if Rodgers likes Mims.  Mims does go up and get the ball and along with Moore he is a guy that could be helpled by some change on the staff.  

[bitonti]

22 minutes ago, jgb said:

Hardman runs a 4.33 (98th percentile of NFL WRs)

He ran a 4.33, once upon a time.

He's coming off of an injury requiring surgery 

the odd part was reported as pelvic, groin, and abdomen at different points

so no one really knows what it was

but it's somewhere in his core, and that 4.33 is out of date 

could he run that 4.33 again? Maybe. That feels like the underdog scenario. 

I'd bet on a healthy Garrett Wilson in a footrace. 

 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

He ran a 4.33, once upon a time.

He's coming off of an injury requiring surgery 

the odd part was reported as pelvic, groin, and abdomen at different points

so no one really knows what it was

but it's somewhere in his core, and that 4.33 is out of date 

could he run that 4.33 again? Maybe. That feels like the underdog scenario. 

I'd bet on a healthy Garrett Wilson in a footrace. 

 

Fair although true of every player unfortunately there isn't a combine for vets every year. It's the only data we have. Assume he went through a physical.

[Gastineau Lives]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Zone teams aren’t playing small guys in the slot anymore because they want the slot to be able to seal the corner. 

Lmao

Oh is that where you meet them? How old school.

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

He ran a 4.33, once upon a time.

He's coming off of an injury requiring surgery 

the odd part was reported as pelvic, groin, and abdomen at different points

so no one really knows what it was

but it's somewhere in his core, and that 4.33 is out of date 

could he run that 4.33 again? Maybe. That feels like the underdog scenario. 

I'd bet on a healthy Garrett Wilson in a footrace. 

 

Sounds like a "sports hernia."  He went to Meyers in Philly who does all of those and pretty much recommends anybody that comes to him to have surgery.  I passed, but I think John Abraham had it like 4 times.  It didn't seem to sap his explosiveness any.  I'll never run a 4.33 again, but that is kind of like "Doctor, will I be able to play the piano?"

[Jet Nut]

50 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Sounds alot like the MLF "everyone needs to know every position" thing, but maybe Hackett will run it better, and surely Rodgers will throw it better.

We can only hope.

Hard to believe it wont be the case

[bitonti]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

Fair although true of every player unfortunately there isn't a combine for vets every year. It's the only data we have. Assume he went through a physical.

the Jets doctors have historically not been great with these things

[jgb]

Just now, bitonti said:

the Jets doctors have historically not been great with these things

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

We can only hope.

Hard to believe it wont be the case

Aaron Rodgers is the Tide, and......

[jvill 51]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Who plays the slot?

Wilson, Davis and Lazard are all outside type WR's.  I truly hope the plan isn't to waste Wilson in the slot.

Hardman is not a solution IMO, anymore than Berrios was.  Mims, lol?

This unit could still use some real help, hopefully JD finds a way in this draft.

I know this has already gotten plenty of discussion, but I think the line of thinking that your slot WR has to be a small, speedy, shifty guy and/or that you're "wasting" your best receiver by putting him in the slot is going by the wayside (and has been for quite some time frankly). Just looking at last year for example, the WRs who amassed the most yardage from the slot:

1. CeeDee Lamb (6'2, 197 lbs)

2. Christian Kirk (5'11 200 lbs)

3. Justin Jefferson (6'1 195)

4. Chris Godwin (6'1 209)

5. Tyler Boyd (6'2 203)

6. Tyreek Hill (5'10 190)

7. Amon-ra St. Brown (6'0 202)

8. Jerry Jeudy (6'1 193)

9. Keenan Allen (6'2 211)

10. Davante Adams (6'1 215)

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2022-nfl-seasons-most-productive-slot-receivers-ceedee-lamb-justin-jefferson

 

If Cooper Kupp (6'2 203) had stayed healthy, he likely would have paced the list, as he did playing 2/3 of his snaps in a record-breaking 2021 season from the slot. Point being, not only are there a bunch of different size profiles on that list, there's a bunch of different speed and play style types as well. Kupp, Lamb, Jefferson, Adams, and Hill make up half of the top 10ish (and that may be conservative) receivers in the league, and I don't think anyone can say they are wasted in the slot; it might even be the exact opposite. Teams are consistently deploying their best WRs in the slot, regardless of size, and sometimes (as in the case of say Lazard in 2021) because of their size.

Point being, Wilson (or Davis, or Lazard) playing in the slot isn't a bad thing -- it's actually a very good thing IMO. There are mismatches to be had in the slot, and having 3 guys who can legitimately play on the outside is a bigger advantage than having 2 guys forced to play outside because one guy has to play inside.

[Warfish]

Just now, jvill 51 said:

I know this has already gotten plenty of discussion, but I think the line of thinking that your slot WR has to be a small, speedy, shifty guy and/or that you're "wasting" your best receiver by putting him in the slot is going by the wayside (and has been for quite some time frankly). Just looking at last year for example, the WRs who amassed the most yardage from the slot:

1. CeeDee Lamb (6'2, 197 lbs)

2. Christian Kirk (5'11 200 lbs)

3. Justin Jefferson (6'1 195)

4. Chris Godwin (6'1 209)

5. Tyler Boyd (6'2 203)

6. Tyreek Hill (5'10 190)

7. Amon-ra St. Brown (6'0 202)

8. Jerry Jeudy (6'1 193)

9. Keenan Allen (6'2 211)

10. Davante Adams (6'1 215)

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2022-nfl-seasons-most-productive-slot-receivers-ceedee-lamb-justin-jefferson

 

If Cooper Kupp (6'2 203) had stayed healthy, he likely would have paced the list, as he did playing 2/3 of his snaps in a record-breaking 2021 season from the slot. Point being, not only are there a bunch of different size profiles on that list, there's a bunch of different speed and play style types as well. Kupp, Lamb, Jefferson, Adams, and Hill half of the top 10ish (and that may be conservative) receivers in the league, and I don't think anyone can say they are wasted in the slot; it might even be the exact opposite. Teams are consistently deploying their best WRs in the slot, regardless of size, and sometimes (as in the case of say Lazard in 2021) because of their size.

Point being, Wilson (or Davis, or Lazard) playing in the slot isn't a bad thing -- it's actually a very good thing IMO. There are mismatches to be had in the slot, and having 3 guys who can legitimately play on the outside is a bigger advantage than having 2 guys forced to play outside because one guy has to play inside.

Just curious, because I don't have a source, but where does one find stats on "the WRs who amassed the most yardage from the slot".

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, jvill 51 said:

I know this has already gotten plenty of discussion, but I think the line of thinking that your slot WR has to be a small, speedy, shifty guy and/or that you're "wasting" your best receiver by putting him in the slot is going by the wayside (and has been for quite some time frankly). Just looking at last year for example, the WRs who amassed the most yardage from the slot:

1. CeeDee Lamb (6'2, 197 lbs)

2. Christian Kirk (5'11 200 lbs)

3. Justin Jefferson (6'1 195)

4. Chris Godwin (6'1 209)

5. Tyler Boyd (6'2 203)

6. Tyreek Hill (5'10 190)

7. Amon-ra St. Brown (6'0 202)

8. Jerry Jeudy (6'1 193)

9. Keenan Allen (6'2 211)

10. Davante Adams (6'1 215)

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2022-nfl-seasons-most-productive-slot-receivers-ceedee-lamb-justin-jefferson

 

If Cooper Kupp (6'2 203) had stayed healthy, he likely would have paced the list, as he did playing 2/3 of his snaps in a record-breaking 2021 season from the slot. Point being, not only are there a bunch of different size profiles on that list, there's a bunch of different speed and play style types as well. Kupp, Lamb, Jefferson, Adams, and Hill half of the top 10ish (and that may be conservative) receivers in the league, and I don't think anyone can say they are wasted in the slot; it might even be the exact opposite. Teams are consistently deploying their best WRs in the slot, regardless of size, and sometimes (as in the case of say Lazard in 2021) because of their size.

Point being, Wilson (or Davis, or Lazard) playing in the slot isn't a bad thing -- it's actually a very good thing IMO. There are mismatches to be had in the slot, and having 3 guys who can legitimately play on the outside is a bigger advantage than having 2 guys forced to play outside because one guy has to play inside.

this is a very good post

G Wilson, C Davis and A Lazard is a decent top 3, however, you shuffle them up. It's a more run-block-heavy look too, something the Jets like to do

Hardman isn't a Moore replacement he's a Berrios replacement

[Dcat]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the Jets doctors have historically not been great with these things

Historically, the Jets med staff has been about as good as Rodney Dangerfield's doctor, Dr. Vinnie Boombatz.  But it got better when they brought in the original Dr. Bombay. 

 

[Beerfish]

Corey davis is not bad and will do well with a vet QB.  I like Smith-Nigba a lot but don't see us going that way.

You guys also forget Randall Cobb probably has a one way ticket to the jets now.

I'd like to be able to trade Mimsy for a late round pick but not sure anyone would bite.

[Rhg1084]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Just curious, because I don't have a source, but where does one find stats on "the WRs who amassed the most yardage from the slot".

He provided the link for you

[jvill 51]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Just curious, because I don't have a source, but where does one find stats on "the WRs who amassed the most yardage from the slot".

Link is in the post, but: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2022-nfl-seasons-most-productive-slot-receivers-ceedee-lamb-justin-jefferson

[jgb]

19 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Aaron Rodgers is the Tide, and......

"A Franchise QB makes his own weaponinzzz, not the other way around."