Wilson's Game Film

[32EBoozer]

8 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

As bad as the throw as it was, it was catchable - since it was in fact caught. 2022 Zach Wilson throws that ball over everyone's head or so low that the Bills defender who moved into the space between Zach and Garret picks it off and returns it for a TD. 

 

Could it also be that GW was supposed to get deeper off the line for the back shoulder throw? DB stood him up off the line which resulted in the throw being too far upfield. Those throws are all timing related. 

[bitonti]

12 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

As bad as the throw as it was, it was catchable - since it was in fact caught. 2022 Zach Wilson throws that ball over everyone's head or so low that the Bills defender who moved into the space between Zach and Garret picks it off and returns it for a TD. 

 

if this play is simulated 100x i feel like it would be an interception at least half the time. 
Garrett Wilson bailed Zach out with that one it was a miracle catch 

[Jetsplayer21]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

With a week to plan you have to assume they’ll have some bombs to throw in there to keep the secondary honest.  But they’re going to need those shorter routes and have wilson get rid of the ball quickly to move the chains.  

That’s exactly what needs to happen. The cowboys D know Zach’s game is limited. They are going to rush and cover flats. They are going to have to take the training wheels off and let it fly. I don’t think the cowboys coaches think jets have the balls to try. They certainly don’t expect Zach to make the correct read quick enough to get it out, and then be accurate. I’d rather see them lose going big down field going for the Win, then just trying “ not to lose “ which will likely result in just that against the cowboys.

[Columbia Jet Fan]

8 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

With a week to plan you have to assume they’ll have some bombs to throw in there to keep the secondary honest.  But they’re going to need those shorter routes and have wilson get rid of the ball quickly to move the chains.  

Oh absolutely. I definitely don't want to rely on the deep ball - and think 90% of what is asked of Zach should be simple throws/draws to keep him throwing on time/in structure. 

I just think that maybe one ball was thrown more than 15 yards? The Lazard throw? That to me is just giving up on offense and relying on the defense to win the game. 

[Reasonable Jets Fan]

40 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Easy there buddy. I don’t hate Zach. No he definitely didn’t WIN the game for the Jets. We got a big break on special teams to win the game. The defense was amazing, the running game carried the O. Breece hall was unbelievable. Garrett Wilson turned a bad throw, possible INT in end zone, in a TD. He first had to play like Sauce and deflect the ball from the corner, deflect to himself, then make the catch on his back. Any other WR that’s not a TD, and most likely a INT. It’s no wonder why they wouldn’t let Zach throw the ball unless it was absolutely needed. They do not trust him. He did not win the game lol. That is a joke. 

Rewatch the game... He most certainly did... Yes GW came up with a huge catch and defense played lights out... Zach also drove the ball downfield on multiple drives in his own territory to score points against a top 5 defense. But he gets no credit for that??? 

I am not saying he was amazing... But he was absolutely clutch when they needed him to be. He made 4 huge 3rd down passes that get glanced over on critical drives... He rushed for a first down on 4th and 1... 

But no he didn't do anything... Your bias is absolutely showing...

I expected it to be a trash Rewatch... But it's probably one of his best games in his career... Coming off the bench against a top 5 defense with a whole stadium groaning that they are stuck with him...

You underestimate how good of a performance it was

[Sonny Werblin]

42 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Could it also be that GW was supposed to get deeper off the line for the back shoulder throw? DB stood him up off the line which resulted in the throw being too far upfield. Those throws are all timing related. 

I’m not entirely sure but I think the throw is supposed to be to the pylon. Even Wilson said it was off target.

[DireJet]

Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

I’m not entirely sure but I think the throw is supposed to be to the pylon. Even Wilson said it was off target.

Just rewatch AR’s throw TD to GW in the preseason vs the Giants. That’s how it’s supposed to be thrown. 

[Sonny Werblin]

3 minutes ago, DireJet said:

Just rewatch AR’s throw TD to GW in the preseason vs the Giants. That’s how it’s supposed to be thrown. 

Or Rodgers was off target too, but since his name is not Zach Wilson it does not matter.

[32EBoozer]

8 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I’m not entirely sure but I think the throw is supposed to be to the pylon. Even Wilson said it was off target.

Which Wilson?

[Sonny Werblin]

18 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Which Wilson?

Zach

[Jetsplayer21]

30 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I’m not entirely sure but I think the throw is supposed to be to the pylon. Even Wilson said it was off target.

Admitting he suckks for once actually is an improvement for him. 

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

As bad as the throw as it was, it was catchable - since it was in fact caught. 2022 Zach Wilson throws that ball over everyone's head or so low that the Bills defender who moved into the space between Zach and Garret picks it off and returns it for a TD. 

 

This is an insidious results-based analysis

[Sonny Werblin]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

This is an insidious results-based analysis

Life is results based

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Life is results based

Results are results-based. But we don’t have the benefit of knowing what they are when the decisions need to be made.

[Creepy Lurker]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Achieving that QB Rating required Garrett Wilson making one of the more brilliant circus catches on a disastrous throw.  

Some people really need to squint for positives about Zach.

He’s terrible. I’m just trying to be optimistic and 2009 level Jet QB play is reasonable to hope for since that was sh*t as well. 

[Sonny Werblin]

34 minutes ago, jgb said:

Results are results-based. But we don’t have the benefit of knowing what they are when the decisions need to be made.

So applying that to the Wilson to Wilson TD pass. He made the correct decision to throw the ball to Wilson. The desired result is a TD. He didn't execute the throw as desired but did make the best decision and executed the throw poorly but within reach for Garret to break up an interception or catch the pass himself. Seems like positive growth to me. 

[Sonny Werblin]

Zach Wilson's last 5 games in 2022

Jags  9/18  50%  92 yards  0 TD  1 Int

Lions 18/35  51%  317 yards  2 TD  1 Int

Pats  9/22   41%  77 yards  0 TD  0 Int

Bills  18/25  72%  154 yards  1 TD  0 Int

Pats  20/41  49%  355 yards  2 TD  3 Int

Everyone who watched those games knows that Wilson was throwing the ball behind and at the feet of his receivers and could not complete a swing pass or screen pass to save his life. He rarely stood in the pocket and spent most of his times staring at the pass rushers and running backwards.  If you can not acknowledge that the Zach Wilson who played Monday night looked different than the version we saw last year, you are blind. I am not saying he is great or even very good, but he is better and he appears to have improved on the things that he needed to work on: accuracy, timing, staying in the pocket with his eyes down field. Will that carry on to the next game or will he revert to the old Zach? I have no idea. I just know the guy who played on Monday night was markedly better than the disaster we witnessed last season. I hope he continues to improve because if he does my team has a shot. And yes, he may not improve and and may get worse (history says this is more likely than not), but the last thing he put on tape is promising and to ignore that promise speaks volumes about your willingness to objectively evaluate what your eyes see.

 

[rangerous]

6 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I've seen many say this because on the FG drive late in the 4th quarter, no pass plays were called. I don't care who was under center. The strategy their is to score AND burn as much time off the clock as possible.

After the pick, the Jets had the ball on the 27 with 4:51 left.

First Down - Hall for 6.

Second down (snapped at 4:08) Hall for 3.9.

Third down (snapped at 3:20) Cook for 0.

Fourth down (snapped at 2:49 with 14 seconds on the play clock - the only time Zach called for the ball with more than 1 second left) Zach for 1.

First down (snapped at 2:06) run for a loss.

The Bills HC, perhaps distracted by his new job of calling the D plays ignored the clock and chose not to take any Timeouts before the 2:00 minute warning. With him taking his timeouts now, there is no way you call a pass play and save the Bills Timeouts. So, more runs and then since it is 4th down, kick the FG. Bills get the ball back with a 1:48 and one timeout - a situation where one sack may very well have ended the game. (BTW, an ideal situation for WMD - was he even on the field?)

So, it is not that they didn't trust Zach in crunch time. Instead they called the plays that the situation dictated. And I would note that they trusted him just fine during the previous TD drive.

Agree with this. About the only concern I have is they didn’t make the first down and gave it back with over two minutes.  And let’s be clear here too because Buffalo gets the ball back and makes a series of middling throws to get the selves within fg range.  The jet defense did get a sack but Allen was able to make completions over the middle.

[jgb]

39 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

So applying that to the Wilson to Wilson TD pass. He made the correct decision to throw the ball to Wilson. The desired result is a TD. He didn't execute the throw as desired but did make the best decision and executed the throw poorly but within reach for Garret to break up an interception or catch the pass himself. Seems like positive growth to me. 

It's like saying it was a good decision to cheat on your wife because on the way to couples counseling to work through it, you bought a lottery ticket that won.

That is a results-based analysis. It's a subset of the hindsight bias fallacy.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Creepy Lurker said:

He’s terrible. I’m just trying to be optimistic and 2009 level Jet QB play is reasonable to hope for since that was sh*t as well. 

I think people forget about just how bad Sanchez was in 2009 because of the team success and his relatively improved playoff performances.

We're talking about a QB who managed to lose a game where his backs ran for a total of 312 yards and the defense allowed only 13 points in regulation.

Without a very lucky set of circumstances at the end of the season, Sanchez would have cost one of our top-3 most talented rosters in franchise history from even getting to the playoffs.  That team going only 9-7 was f**king laughable.  (Recall also that the 2015 Jets missed the playoffs at 10-6.)

And for all intents and purposes Sanchez was the superior QB to Wilson.

No one should be rooting for a reboot of the '09 Jets.

[Jetsfan80]

41 minutes ago, jgb said:

It's like saying it was a good decision to cheat on your wife because on the way to couples counseling to work through it, you bought a lottery ticket that won.

That is a results-based analysis. It's a subset of the hindsight bias fallacy.

People love to ignore process in these discussions.  Mike Maccagnan produced a better single season W-L record in 2015 than Joe Douglas has to this point.  Would anyone other than maybe bitonti argue that Maccagnan is the superior GM to Douglas?

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

People love to ignore process in these discussions.  Mike Maccagnan produced a better single season W-L record in 2015 than Joe Douglas has to this point.  Would anyone other than maybe bitonti argue that Maccagnan is the superior GM to Douglas?

You shouldn't have to explain reality to people who exist in it every day, but such is the state of things.

[Ghost420]

5 hours ago, DireJet said:

Just rewatch AR’s throw TD to GW in the preseason vs the Giants. That’s how it’s supposed to be thrown. 

Not it's not. That pass in the preseason was not a back shoulder throw. The one Wilson threw should have been to the right shoulder not towards the corner of the end zone. 

[Ken Schroy]

On 9/13/2023 at 1:56 PM, Joe W. Namath said:

Zach was terrible.  We not need to break down any film.

Hopefully, he plays better this week.

Well he wasn't very good but "terrible" would have been an L. 

[Jetsfan80]

26 minutes ago, Ken Schroy said:

Well he wasn't very good but "terrible" would have been an L. 

Why?  You've watched enough Jets football to know the Jets have won quite a few games over the years with terrible QB play.  

Or you SHOULD have watched enough to know that by now, anyways...

[jgb]

7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Why?  You've watched enough Jets football to know the Jets have won quite a few games over the years with terrible QB play.  

Or you SHOULD have watched enough to know that by now, anyways...

It's ridiculous. A guy who admits he "wasn't very good" is pearl clutching over people calling him terrible.

I mean damn, how dumb does supporting a trash QB make some people?

[rtnelson]

I wasn't sure where to post this.  But for those who haven't seen the behind the scenes footage of Saleh, Rodgers and Zach talking about the season it's a must watch.

https://x.com/LJ_Reny/status/1702058017238532517?s=20

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

10 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Zach Wilson's last 5 games in 2022

Jags  9/18  50%  92 yards  0 TD  1 Int

Lions 18/35  51%  317 yards  2 TD  1 Int

Pats  9/22   41%  77 yards  0 TD  0 Int

Bills  18/25  72%  154 yards  1 TD  0 Int

Pats  20/41  49%  355 yards  2 TD  3 Int

Everyone who watched those games knows that Wilson was throwing the ball behind and at the feet of his receivers and could not complete a swing pass or screen pass to save his life. He rarely stood in the pocket and spent most of his times staring at the pass rushers and running backwards.  If you can not acknowledge that the Zach Wilson who played Monday night looked different than the version we saw last year, you are blind. I am not saying he is great or even very good, but he is better and he appears to have improved on the things that he needed to work on: accuracy, timing, staying in the pocket with his eyes down field. Will that carry on to the next game or will he revert to the old Zach? I have no idea. I just know the guy who played on Monday night was markedly better than the disaster we witnessed last season. I hope he continues to improve because if he does my team has a shot. And yes, he may not improve and and may get worse (history says this is more likely than not), but the last thing he put on tape is promising and to ignore that promise speaks volumes about your willingness to objectively evaluate what your eyes see.

He’s apparently recovered from his ‘22 meltdown, which is nice.

I guess we’ll have to take it one game at a time.

What’s so bizarre about the Denver debacle last year was there were no imminent warning signs that the dude was about to go off the rails and utterly lose any confidence he had.

ZR reported after season that it was during the Denver practice week that ZW couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn, even in padless drills.

No coincidence I think that was also the week Elijah had his meltdown with ZW and LaFleur.

Moore apparently cursed out both of them to their faces and that somehow shattered ZW’s psyche?

They lowkey elevated MFW to QB2 shortly thereafter, knowing they had to have him ready to go in the bullpen.

It’s going to be very hard to trust Kapono even if he somehow manages to string a few solid outings together.

[GandWFan]

6 hours ago, rtnelson said:

I wasn't sure where to post this.  But for those who haven't seen the behind the scenes footage of Saleh, Rodgers and Zach talking about the season it's a must watch.

https://x.com/LJ_Reny/status/1702058017238532517?s=20

Lol.

[Sammybighead]

For everyone bitching about the TD throw, you're underestimating one key element: Zach changed the play at the LOS.  Consider the fact that he was never allowed to to do that under MLF. He must have been sh*tting a brick, lucky he even got the pass that close. He took a risk, did something for the first time in the highest pressure situation and it worked. Give the kid some credit and stop whinning about the ball placement. It was caught, wasn't it? You've also been whinning for years that we don't have a superstar WR that can make such catches, no? Now we have one and you whine that he's forced to make such a catch? 

[Bronx]

On 9/13/2023 at 10:56 AM, Joe W. Namath said:

Zach was terrible.  We not need to break down any film.

Hopefully, he plays better this week.

[rtnelson]

18 hours ago, jgb said:

This is an insidious results-based analysis

I'm not trying to poke the bear too much this early in the morning.  But...

If GW bobbles and pops up the throw taking us inside the 10 leading to an INT, you would likely acknowledge the fault because you're not a complete heathen, then proceed to talk about the result-based fact that he couldn't get the job done when asked to throw and we lost because ZW sucks and couldn't lead a TD drive in crunch time.

Insidious!

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

I'm not trying to poke the bear too much this early in the morning.  But...

If GW bobbles and pops up the throw taking us inside the 10 leading to an INT, you would likely acknowledge the fault because you're not a complete heathen, then proceed to talk about the result-based fact that he couldn't get the job done when asked to throw and we lost because ZW sucks and couldn't lead a TD drive in crunch time.

Insidious!

I reject this premise.

[#27TheDominator]

You characters all think that it is completely on the coaches taking the air out of the ball that they don't go deep?  I'm pretty sure that some of those routes have deeper elements.  Wilson is becoming a check-down king for safety sake.  We will have to see if he ever takes any real shots.  IMO that will be as much on his confidence as play calling.

[Jetkwondo]

Oh boy, I've been thinking I've been spending way too much time here... now the scrutiny and what if's of an incredible catch by our budding super star!

See you guys after the game as I'm not spending the next 2 days caught in this quagmire of constant negativity... 

GO JETS!