T0mShane Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Beerfish said: As expected all the woes of the D are put on the offense. Thus proving they are mediocre. The O punts, the D can't get off the field by being run on, failing on third down or taking monumentally stupid penalties. RAPIDLY moving up my list of Canadian Males That I Would Fight If Properly Provoked (overtaking Michael Bublè) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted November 30, 2023 Author Share Posted November 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, T0mShane said: RAPIDLY moving up my list of Canadian Males That I Would Fight If Properly Provoked (overtaking Michael Bublè) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GangGreened Posted November 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2023 https://www.ftnfantasy.com/nfl/tools/team-total-dvoa Defense is ranked #4 Offense is ranked #32 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bitonti Posted November 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 minute ago, GangGreened said: https://www.ftnfantasy.com/nfl/tools/team-total-dvoa Defense is ranked #4 Offense is ranked #32 the Jets defense is still elite by many metrics including pass defense what is happening now is what happens in every Jets campaign, the defense is checking out people will blame Saleh or Quinnen's lack of sacks (or whatever) but the defense probably can't even look these guys on offense in the eye right now on their way to 4-13 with a historically bad offense yes that will break any defense to some extent 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnold's Forehead Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Even if the stats show the defense is average or overrated or whatever, it doesn't even matter. You simply cannot give the unit a fair grade when paired with this offense which, at best, punts or kicks every possession. For all we know the players on defense are not giving their best effort. At this point they likely know that, despite the huge amount of time they are on the field, nothing they do will effect the outcome of the game - because the offense is absolute zero. We saw glimpses last year and even earlier this season of how dangerous this defense was when the entire team, offense included, managed to get a lead or momentum in a game. So maybe they are underperforming (they ought to flat out revolt). But it does not matter whatsoever and anyone seriously hollering about them needs to get their priorities straight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleDown Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 It's a Superbowl level defense that has been demoralized by a horrific offense. Stop overthinking it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Beerfish said: 15th in yards per game 31st in run defense 18th on points allowed 26th in 3rd down defense Tied for 20th in sacks Tied for the league lead in roughing the passer penalties (Wail!) Oh but it is not their fault that our offense is poor!!!!! 'Elite' defenses over come poor offenses, get off the field on 3rd down, stop the run and do not take endless awful penalties. This is not close to an elite defense, a good defense? Only at some things, pass defense is pretty good, red zone D is pretty good. Cleveland has an 'elite' defense and we sure as hell are not in their league. Come at me bros! I shall bathe in all of your thumbs down votes as I bathe in the souls of my enemies! I'm not gonna' sh*t on a very good unit for giving up points when they know the game is over as soon as the other team kicks a pair of field goals. They need a couple of pieces but still loaded with talent. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Just now, DoubleDown said: It's a Superbowl level defense that has been demoralized by a horrific offense. Stop overthinking it. Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Rico Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 9 minutes ago, bitonti said: the Jets defense is still elite by many metrics including pass defense what is happening now is what happens in every Jets campaign, the defense is checking out people will blame Saleh or Quinnen's lack of sacks (or whatever) but the defense probably can't even look these guys on offense in the eye right now on their way to 4-13 with a historically bad offense yes that will break any defense to some extent Macc's pick, for the JD truthers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Who wrote this thread, Zach’s mom? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawk Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 What is the average snaps against the defense? What is the average per snap? Stat warriors will always find an argument because they can always find a Stat to justify an argument. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Rico Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 minute ago, hawk said: What is the average snaps against the defense? What is the average per snap? Stat warriors will always find an argument because they can always find a Stat to justify an argument. Zach and the offense suck, but there's many times the defense can't get off the field because of their own machinations. And not for nothing, the defense gets glory for the goal line stand against Miami on their first drive, but let's not forget they could have/should have made Miami punt, several times, if they just shut 'em down on 3rd down during that drive, or at least didn't do anything stupid (Jefferson head butting Miami player). So yeah, great, Miami went for it on 4th down and lost--- but the only reason McDaniel makes that decision is because he knows even if they don't score a TD, Tim Boyle has to make something happen in his very first start since... when? That was a win-win situation for Miami, because McDaniel knows even if they don't score, it's calculated that Boyle will have a traumatizing experience in that spot that he will NEVER recover from for the rest of the game, because Hackett will go even deeper into his shell that he was already in before his QB even takes the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe W. Namath Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 We have a solid defense. We dont have an all world defense. Defense is playing fine for what they are. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost420 Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Probably a Zach supporters who creates this thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe W. Namath Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 A great D doesnt let teams walk up and down the field on their 1st few possessions every game. We are always down right out of the gate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe W. Namath Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 15 minutes ago, DoubleDown said: It's a Superbowl level defense that has been demoralized by a horrific offense. Stop overthinking it. Its absolutely not a super bowl defense. They are a good defense. Far from great. More jet fan delusion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Rico Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said: We have a solid defense. We dont have an all world defense. Defense is playing fine for what they are. Correct. If JD didn't build half a team, he'd be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 The good news is that JD will use the 1st rounder on some defensive help. That way Saleh can crow about how good his defense is! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 11 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said: A great D doesnt let teams walk up and down the field on their 1st few possessions every game. We are always down right out of the gate. I think we have a very good defense but I also think it's surprising how often they give up points early in games. I remember people arguing (aka making the excuse) early in the season that "they're exhausted from the offense putting them on the field all the time". But for several games in a row the opponent would go right down the field on us early in games (IIRC, the 1st drive for like 3 games in a row). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe W. Namath Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 You can bet the Falcons will march right down the field on their 1st or 2nd drive and score. That is a given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 13 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said: A great D doesnt let teams walk up and down the field on their 1st few possessions every game. We are always down right out of the gate. Interesting theory FYI, the Jets have given up 3 total points on opening drives in the last 5 games, and those 3 points came off of a Xavier Gipson fumble on the opening kickoff in Buffalo. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreened Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 18 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said: Its absolutely not a super bowl defense. They are a good defense. Far from great. More jet fan delusion. They are the 4th ranked defense in the league by DVOA They’ve given up 3 points on opening drives in the last 4 games 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: I think we have a very good defense but I also think it's surprising how often they give up points early in games. I remember people arguing (aka making the excuse) early in the season that "they're exhausted from the offense putting them on the field all the time". But for several games in a row the opponent would go right down the field on us early in games (IIRC, the 1st drive for like 3 games in a row). This was true earlier in the season, but the Jets haven't given up an opening drive TD since the Philly game (and we still have no idea if Hurts even scored on that play) and have given up 3 points on opening drives in total since then (coming off the Xavier Gipson fumble in the Bills game). That's 1 FG (off a turnover on a short field) in 5 weeks. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said: You can bet the Falcons will march right down the field on their 1st or 2nd drive and score. That is a given. actually, that would probably be a stupid bet, based on recent trends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doitny Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 i got some stats for you too..... you all bitch about Penalties, and again as i reminded you all we are tied with Miami for the 5th LEAST penalties on defense. now bitch about a PF head butt but we dont give up defensive penalties. if we cant overcome the 5 pen per game we avg on defense then thats on the offense that sucks. we are 7th in TO with 19. we are giving it back to the offense and they cant do nothing with it. we are tied for 4th in INTs. the biggest knock on this defense last year was that we didnt get TOs. now were one of the best teams at getting them. we are 10th in "percentage of drives that end in a TO." oh and that "elite" Cleveland defense has 19 more pen for 150 more yards. and has less TO and INTs then us. i guess they only take "smart" penalties. there offense is 10 times better than ours and keeps them in games. they scored 76 more points and about 700 yds more than us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe W. Namath Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 18 minutes ago, slimjasi said: Interesting theory FYI, the Jets have given up 3 total points on opening drives in the last 5 games, and those 3 points came off of a Xavier Gipson fumble on the opening kickoff in Buffalo. Last week, fins went 80 yards on the 1st drive like it was nothing. Then went right down the field again on 2nd drive and kicked a fg. The D is good, nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggs Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 hour ago, slimjasi said: We've been over this. You're ignoring, or at least greatly minimizing, the impact a historically inept offense has on the rest of the team. For instance, in the Chargers game, the Jets turned the ball over 3 times and were 3-17 on third downs, and yet, the Jets held Herbert to 16 for 30 for 130 yards (one of the 2 or 3 worst performances of his entire career), Eckler to 47 yards on 14 carries, and the Chargers to 3.4 yards per play. However, because of a punt return for a TD and three back-breaking turnovers by the offense, the "defense" gave up 27 points and the team lost by three touchdowns. Someone like you reads the box score and goes "oh gee, the Jets defense gave up 27 points and got blown out on national TV, what an overrated defense!!!!" Even in the first half of the Miami game, a game in which they gave up almost 400 yards (a terrible performance by their standards), the Jets defense scored a TD on a pick 6, got another interception, and held the Dolphins to 10 offensive points. And yet, thanks to the offense, they were down 17-6 at halftime because of a ridiculous pick 6 on a Hail Mary attempt , ZERO third down conversions, and ZERO points on offense. ZERO contributions from the offense. Not a little. ZERO. The Jets did not convert a single 3rd down in that game until a 3rd and Inches early in the 4th quarter. Football is a team game with three phases that all feed off one another. There is a reason coaches talk about "complimentary football" - It's cliche but it's absolutely true and good teams all play complimentary football. If a good team forces a turnover, their offense takes the ball and sticks it in the endzone. When our defense forces a turnover, we are lucky if we get a 50 yard FG attempt out of it. You can't win anything with the offense we have put on the field all year. The Chargers scored 10 against the Ravens this past week. 3 through 3 quarters. After the punt return for a TD the Charger scored a TD in the 1st quarter to go up by 14. Game was done right there. They literally didn't have to be aggressive on O for the rest of the game. Teams don't have to be aggresive against the Jets D. Miami ran the ball down our Defenses throat. There brilliant HC got a little to cute having Tua throw toward the sidelines for absolutely no reason. They still were marching up and down the field. The D is good. It's also stupid which has cost the team. I do agree a good O would help the D but the D isn't close to what the Jets put on the field with Rex. Not in any way close to as good even though they might actually have better overall personal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 27 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said: Last week, fins went 80 yards on the 1st drive like it was nothing. Then went right down the field again on 2nd drive and kicked a fg. The D is good, nothing more. They went 80 yards on their first drive . . . And didn’t score. glad we agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 13 minutes ago, Biggs said: The Chargers scored 10 against the Ravens this past week. 3 through 3 quarters. After the punt return for a TD the Charger scored a TD in the 1st quarter to go up by 14. Game was done right there. They literally didn't have to be aggressive on O for the rest of the game. Teams don't have to be aggresive against the Jets D. Miami ran the ball down our Defenses throat. There brilliant HC got a little to cute having Tua throw toward the sidelines for absolutely no reason. They still were marching up and down the field. The D is good. It's also stupid which has cost the team. I do agree a good O would help the D but the D isn't close to what the Jets put on the field with Rex. Not in any way close to as good even though they might actually have better overall personal. Well, the ravens also have a very good defense. Teams “don’t have to be aggressive against the jets D” because WE HAVE NO OFFENSE - you made my point for me thank you 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoni Beast Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 Really tough in today’s game for the D to shut teams down consistently when your offense can’t score … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets0712 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 The Jets have a Really good D.The Jets never ever play with a lead.It’s gotta be deflating as hell To not have an Offense that can score a TD.They are getting worn out and understandably so. THEY NEED HELP from our putrid offense…Here’s a stat for you. 293 yards have been rushed by the opposing QBs about 26 a game. So that contributes to having a poor rush defense.. JETS D is far from perfect. But Damnit like another poster said before. If we can score League average we would be 18-3. That’s CRAZYSent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 Look at that confident face when he tells you he’s embarrassing QBs, but isn’t embarrassed by his own teams play. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted December 1, 2023 Author Share Posted December 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said: Offense can’t find the endzone for like 10 weeks straight. Ya know what? The defense is overrated. This is the Zach Wilson stradgey, Wilson is so bad that Tim Boyle and Mike White are good! The fact that the offense is stupid bad does not make he D great. It is above average in some things and below average to near league last in others. With our Dline, lineabackers having career years, secondary that is supposed to be one of the best in the game you would expect really good stats all over the place. 31st run defense 26th 3rd down defense 20th in sacks. very ugly stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 3 hours ago, GangGreened said: They were top 5 in DVOA before the Dolphins game. Not sure what it is now. Mentally and physically exhausted probably 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted December 1, 2023 Author Share Posted December 1, 2023 14 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said: Really tough in today’s game for the D to shut teams down consistently when your offense can’t score … Nonsense. Tough to win games? Yes 100% agreed, we are not winning due to the offense. But some of these stats and rankings are not related to the offense. How does the offense make us 26th ranked on 3rd downs and tied for the league in roughing the passer? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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