This Offensive Line stinks

[RevisIsland610]

Joe Douglas has been horrific with his decisions with the Oline and QB. There is no defending it. He absolutely deserves to be fired. 

[Sperm Edwards]

37 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The Texans were down 21 to 6 well into the 4th quarter.  The Texans were forced to play 1 dimensional football and went 4 and out 3 times by forcing the ball.   The D didn't turn them over.  The O and punting game put them in position where we got the ball back in FG range 3 straight times.  It was the score that dictated the field position and the 1 dimensional aspect of the Houston O.  They also had a rookie QB missing his weapons playing in very tough weather conditions. .

I keep hearing the D isn't responsible for anything because the O doesn't play complimentary football.   The O put Houston in position to have to play 1 dimensional on O with a rookie QB in bad weather.   

The D did their job.  The O did their job.  The special teams did their jobs.  The pressure on the Houston O was dictated by the fact that Zach in the same conditions right after Houston scored to put the game in reach, missed an extra point.  Zach lead the Jets on a 10 play 75 yard drive to completely take Houston out of their game plan.  Stroudt was forced to pass in bad conditions on every down.  They went for it on 4th down every series.  The Jets got the ball back in FG range each time.  The Jets TD drive when it was 14-6 was very responsible for those 3 FG.   

Zach is leaving.  He basically told Saleh he didn't want to play for him.  Apparently the Jets have agreed to trade him or release him.  He will be starting somewhere else next year and Siemian will be our QB when Rodgers goes down again.

Putting the other team in a bad position isn't the same as scoring points. What dictated those points was Houston's starting field position. Maybe you want to instead credit the Jets' special teams for not surrendering 40 yards on kickoffs because any of that would have not merely advanced Houston's offense but it would've taken points off the board for the Jets' offense.

The offense didn't score 30 points. 4 down situations or not, if the defense gives up another first down before Houston goes 4 & out, then it erases Jets points.

I'm comfortable with the offense and defense combined putting Houston in that position to be in 4-down territory anywhere on the field, but it's the D that actually gets them to the 4 & out so quickly and so deep in Houston's own territory (not to mention the special teams not allowing a 40-50+ yard return).

If it were otherwise then every team with a 3-score lead would always add 3 more FGs in the late 4th quarter without even moving the ball 1 yard (and 2 of 3 times, outright going backwards).

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Putting the other team in a bad position isn't the same as scoring points. What dictated those points was Houston's starting field position. Maybe you want to instead credit the Jets' special teams for not surrendering 40 yards on kickoffs because any of that would have not merely advanced Houston's offense but it would've taken points off the board for the Jets' offense.

The offense didn't score 30 points. 4 down situations or not, if the defense gives up another first down before Houston goes 4 & out, then it erases Jets points.

I'm comfortable with the offense and defense combined putting Houston in that position to be in 4-down territory anywhere on the field, but it's the D that actually gets them to the 4 & out so quickly and so deep in Houston's own territory (not to mention the special teams not allowing a 40-50+ yard return).

If it were otherwise then every team with a 3-score lead would always add 3 more FGs in the late 4th quarter without even moving the ball 1 yard (and 2 of 3 times, outright going backwards).

You're ignoring the score.  The D didn't have to play the run at all.  The O also didn't have to score.  SItuational football.  The O and special teams were as responsible as the D for those points.  

[THE BARON]

17 hours ago, Claymation said:

I don’t know who is worse, Mekhi or Tomlinson. 
outside of Tippman I would get a whole new OL. 

AVT injury prone too.

They MUST double dip in o-line in the draft.  MUST !

[Jetpain]

16 hours ago, Lith said:

13 different starters this season.  No team can go 13 deep on the OL:

1. Becton
2. Tomlinson
3. Brown
4. AVT
5. McGovern
6. Tippman
7. Newman
8. Schweitzer
9. Glaser
10. Mitchell
11. Turner
12. Warren
13. Hanson

 

13 different starters, backup QB from game 1, RB1 coming back from ACL, RB2 coming off injury and unproductive and WR2 who has played worse than a WR5.   

[Claymation]

17 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

AVT injury prone too.

They MUST double dip in o-line in the draft.  MUST !

They have to do something, but letting Mekhi walk would be my 1st choice.

[68JET11]

Jets need either Alt or Fashanu at the top of next years draft to solidify the LT position. The only way I as GM don't draft either one of them is if MH Jr. is available when we pick. Outside of him, LT is my first draft pick.

[David Harris]

Watched Mekhi against Houston and I’m ready to let him walk. He got beat a lot and was lazy, not sustaining blocks. The light is never going to stay on. 

[rex-n-effect]

The team has to figure out how to condition the OL to sharply reduce injuries. It's not just the stadium turf because these injuries happen during away games, too. Reducing injuries takes pressure off the depth players from having to be better than they are. There's just no way to staff the roster with fifteen OL starters. They need to upgrade the conditioning program and think about how the OL coaching and blocking schemes contribute to their injuries. 

Douglas needs to make some upgrades to the roster, but like other problems with the offense, it's not just on the players to fix problems.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

You're ignoring the score.  The D didn't have to play the run at all.  The O also didn't have to score.  SItuational football.  The O and special teams were as responsible as the D for those points.  

Meh, I'm not ignoring anything.

This isn't the first team with a multi-score lead late in a game. It happens weekly around the league, but what doesn't happen weekly is the leading teams' respective defenses don't always get teams to go 4 & out so the offense takes over already in FG range (and only gets a FG after going backwards or nowhere at all for 3 drives in a row). 

The defense getting a turnover on downs so quickly is what generated the points. If they'd gotten turnovers on downs after moving the ball 10-30 yards each time, then there are no FGs tacked on. 

[Biggs]

21 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Meh, I'm not ignoring anything.

This isn't the first team with a multi-score lead late in a game. It happens weekly around the league, but what doesn't happen weekly is the leading teams' respective defenses don't always get teams to go 4 & out so the offense takes over already in FG range (and only gets a FG after going backwards or nowhere at all for 3 drives in a row). 

The defense getting a turnover on downs so quickly is what generated the points. If they'd gotten turnovers on downs after moving the ball 10-30 yards each time, then there are no FGs tacked on. 

Again that assumes if they weren't in FG position the O does the same thing.   The Jets also dominated TOP.  The D was playing a one dimensional football team in crappy conditions, rookie QB in a deep hole on the road.  The Jets D has been notoriously bad against the run.  The Jets O took the running game away from them. 

[THE BARON]

1 hour ago, Claymation said:

They have to do something, but letting Mekhi walk would be my 1st choice.

Not only has Becton been unreliable, he has been a poor performer vs. speedy DE/OLB pass rushers.  He's a nice run blocker and does fine against most DE/OLBs, but he is constantly getting smoked by the fast guys.  

If the Jets manage to draft Joe Alt. I'd consider moving Becton to RT full time with AVT at right guard.  Tippman at Center and have a camp competition for LG.  

[Sperm Edwards]

31 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Again that assumes if they weren't in FG position the O does the same thing.   The Jets also dominated TOP.  The D was playing a one dimensional football team in crappy conditions, rookie QB in a deep hole on the road.  The Jets D has been notoriously bad against the run.  The Jets O took the running game away from them. 

Again, this isn't anywhere close to the first time a team has a 3-score lead in the 4th quarter. Trailing teams don't always go 4 & out on 3 consecutive drives, leaving the leading team to take over on downs already in FG range. Teams can (and more often do, when it happens) turn over on downs while converting at least one 1st, not in effect going 0-for-12 in converting even a single first down.

I don't know why anyone would argue to the contrary, as if that were so we'd see it 4x per week throughout each season. It happens sometimes, like yesterday, but it isn't the norm. 

[rangerous]

18 hours ago, mrmajix said:

Yes but only 1 or 2 are worth a sh*t

You can’t always judge an oline by the individual player.  If this oline was set from game one without having to rotate guys because of injury I think it would be pretty good, at least by game four or five.

[rangerous]

7 hours ago, Biggs said:

Zach proved an elite QB with a quick release and mobility doesn’t need a good OL.  15 pressures and 4 sacks yesterday and still puts up 30 in a half.   All accomplished by the QB telling the coaching staff he didn’t want to play for them anymore and taking complete control of the O.

Imagine a good OL another good WR and a brilliant coaching staff…. Yet we poured money down the drain for a QB who should be visited national parks in Utah and tripping his way to a meaningful retirenment.

Maybe Zach should have told them from game one he didn’t want to play for them.

[JetsMan57]

Becton had a rough day yesterday but overall has been up and down this year. It will be important for him to make it out of these 4 games without suffering a significant injury so he can focus this offseason on training his body rather than rehabbing an injury.

The guy did not play for 2 full years. In NFL years that's a lot. We wont have a final answer on him until next year.

[Claymation]

48 minutes ago, JetsMan57 said:

Becton had a rough day yesterday but overall has been up and down this year. It will be important for him to make it out of these 4 games without suffering a significant injury so he can focus this offseason on training his body rather than rehabbing an injury.

The guy did not play for 2 full years. In NFL years that's a lot. We wont have a final answer on him until next year.

My guess is that he will be playing for someone else.

[Sammybighead]

15 hours ago, Claymation said:

My guess is that he will be playing for someone else.

It’s possible, but who you getting to replace him? Rookie blindside protector for Rodgers next year? Bhaktiari who’s more injured than Mekhi? Don’t see any options available as far as free agents yet, but good LTs aren’t exactly readily available.

My preferred route is to work out a 1 year extension with Mekhi or franchise him. Let him start at LT and draft a LT with whatever 1st rd pick we have. The rookie can compete at RT for year 1 and take over for Mekhi if they choose to let him walk after next year. This plan kind of stabilizes 2 positions for next year at least. Carter Warren can be the backup swing tackle and you need to find 1 more high quality backup.

I actually think interior oline is more of a concern. Laken is back. He’s been mediocre at best but his best ability has been his availability. Tippmann and his glorious head of hair at center is a lock. We need high quality insurance for AVT. Can’t assume he’s gonna be anywhere near what he was or even available to start. They need to draft a solid guard prospect as well and bring in a high quality G/C backup.

[jetsfan4life72]

On 12/10/2023 at 6:41 PM, FidelioJet said:

Yup.

Need to build a new OL and have proper backs up at their normal positions.  

This - play the 5 best - is actually my guess as to why we are getting so many injuries.  Pick a position and leave him there.

Agreed I’ve been saying all year we need to bring in guys and stick them at ONE spot instead of shuffling everyone around. I want to draft the best LT not the best OL who can play anywhere. 

[Claymation]

35 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

It’s possible, but who you getting to replace him? Rookie blindside protector for Rodgers next year? Bhaktiari who’s more injured than Mekhi? Don’t see any options available as far as free agents yet, but good LTs aren’t exactly readily available.

My preferred route is to work out a 1 year extension with Mekhi or franchise him. Let him start at LT and draft a LT with whatever 1st rd pick we have. The rookie can compete at RT for year 1 and take over for Mekhi if they choose to let him walk after next year. This plan kind of stabilizes 2 positions for next year at least. Carter Warren can be the backup swing tackle and you need to find 1 more high quality backup.

I actually think interior oline is more of a concern. Laken is back. He’s been mediocre at best but his best ability has been his availability. Tippmann and his glorious head of hair at center is a lock. We need high quality insurance for AVT. Can’t assume he’s gonna be anywhere near what he was or even available to start. They need to draft a solid guard prospect as well and bring in a high quality G/C backup.

The Texans have a weak DL, and they abused him all game. A rookie OT would be better than what he is providing. 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/offensive-line//

[More Cowbell]

Becton was over-drafted. He isn't  bad, he just isn't living up to his draft position.  

[Claymation]

23 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Becton was over-drafted. He isn't  bad, he just isn't living up to his draft position.  

Forget draft position, if he was a UDFA he would still be considered awful.

He gets beat every time when they speed rush him. He is fine with a bull rush.

[southparkcpa]

On 12/10/2023 at 6:39 PM, Sonny Werblin said:

We could always use another depth edge rusher.

Box safety.....   can't have too many of those.

[carlito1171]

At 1st I was fine with Becton coming back on a FT or a short deal but now I'm good I'll pass......he lets random speedy edge guys beat him at least 1-2 times per game and he taps out of plays constantly.....

JD has his work cut out for him fixing the OL for the 5th year in a row 🥴

[carlito1171]

On 12/10/2023 at 7:53 PM, Beerfish said:

Tippman and hopefully AVT next year, the rest can F off.

Even with AVT you need insurance until he's ready to go coming off of an Achilles 

[chirorob]

48 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Becton was over-drafted. He isn't  bad, he just isn't living up to his draft position.  

Over drafted, and 2 time repaired knee that causes him pain and loss of mobility.

[freestater]

19 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Box safety.....   can't have too many of those.

All the good box safeties are gone by pick 5.

 

 

...apparently 

[Augustiniak]

53 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Becton was over-drafted. He isn't  bad, he just isn't living up to his draft position.  

he's much more geared to be a RT in the nfl.  he'd be a decent RT.  he's over his head at LT.  jets will probably draft a LT in the first round and if they keep becton, they're going to eventually tell him his position is RT unless there's an injury.  but whether they keep him or not depends on what else is around in FA

[#27TheDominator]

13 minutes ago, carlito1171 said:

Even with AVT you need insurance until he's ready to go coming off of an Achilles 

Why?  Won't he be ready to go 3 months post injury?

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

he's much more geared to be a RT in the nfl.  he'd be a decent RT.  he's over his head at LT.  jets will probably draft a LT in the first round and if they keep becton, they're going to eventually tell him his position is RT unless there's an injury.  but whether they keep him or not depends on what else is around in FA

I always felt this, which is another reason I thought it was silly to pass on Wirfs.

[#27TheDominator]

20 hours ago, Biggs said:

Again that assumes if they weren't in FG position the O does the same thing.   The Jets also dominated TOP.  The D was playing a one dimensional football team in crappy conditions, rookie QB in a deep hole on the road.  The Jets D has been notoriously bad against the run.  The Jets O took the running game away from them. 

Notoriously bad?  The Jets D is 12th in ypa allowed.  They are 28th in rushing yards allowed, but that is because they are 32nd in attempts.  I don't think it is so much that the Jets O took the running game away from them as the Jets O gave the running game to everybody else.

[Augustiniak]

24 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I always felt this, which is another reason I thought it was silly to pass on Wirfs.

I think douglas swung for the fences with becton and wilson and learned his lesson with those 1st rounders.  If the jets wind up picking top 7 or 8 they’re pretty much in that LT range but if they win a bit more and they’re in mid round 1, it’s entirely possible they pick the best tackle even if it’s a RT and go from there.  

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Notoriously bad?  The Jets D is 12th in ypa allowed.  They are 28th in rushing yards allowed, but that is because they are 32nd in attempts.  I don't think it is so much that the Jets O took the running game away from them as the Jets O gave the running game to everybody else.

Noteriously bad was hyperbole, agree.   Doesn't change the point.  They are 32nd in attempts because teams like to run on our D.  They typically overpersue and get gashed in the run game.   The point is Houston completely abandoned the run in bad weather when they're key pass catcher was out because the score dictated it.   The Jets D is outstanding defending the passing game.  The conditions to pass the ball weren't good and the Jets O put them in a huge hole that dictated they abandon the run.   It also caused them to abandon the punt on 4th down.  

Teams in the NFL run to set up the pass.  12th in yards per is a lot less important than 32nd in attempts.  Also a result of not scoring.   Teams are getting enough field position and points running on the Jets to win games.

 

[DoubleDown]

The Jets need to walk away from next year's draft with 3 or more picks on the OL with one of them preferably being a first rounder.

The running blocking and pass blocking have both been largely piss poor this season.

Prior to the season, I defended the OL as having the potential to be a solid unit if they can stay healthy.  Well, I was wrong, and they didn't stay healthy.  It's now time for a complete revamp.

My biggest worry is that it's likely going to be Joe Douglas who is doing the revamping.  Something he has tried multiple times already and failed each and every time.

[Biggs]

23 hours ago, RevisIsland610 said:

Joe Douglas has been horrific with his decisions with the Oline and QB. There is no defending it. He absolutely deserves to be fired. 

He doesn't deserve to be fired.  He's drafting to the mean and he's constructed a mediocre team that with a few breaks could easily be in the middle of the playoff hunt.   This is the NFL.  Excellence is hindered by a system that's designed to level the playing field not create an excellent product.   Joe Douglas has shown enough ability to build a team that reverts to the NFL mean in 7 to 10 years.