National rhetoric around Zachs victimhood

[doitny]

29 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I hate to give the Giants credit but they do a vastly better job at navigating this scenario than we do. Eli was killed by the media for the first 3 season and really first 4 seasons. It wasn't until late in his 4th year where it clicked and then he went on to have a great career.

The Giants stuck with him and their plan the entire time and didn't throw him under the bus or get all embarrassed, and the same with Daniel Jones to a degree who had a great year last season. Now, I don't Jones is great or will be the guy for them but they don't let the media dictate their plans. I can appreciate that.

Eli went 11-5 in his 2nd year with 24 TDs. he threw 4 TDs in one game that year. Zach never threw even 3. 

Eli had 56 TDs in his 1st 3 years in 39 games.  Zach has 23 TDs in 33 games.

and dont discount his last name. im sure he got more rope because people thought he could be like his brother.

Zach is historically bad, Eli was not.

[Rangers9]

4 hours ago, Jet hustle said:

Seems like everyone is blaming the Jets Org for Zach sucking for the past 3 years.  Just a  bizarre take if you have actually watched him play.  Even Rex Ryan is going hard on this Hot Take.   It's just perplexing to me

RR will go along with anything to make waves. But there is legitimacy to some of it. Zach has played well at times and team not scoring isn't all his fault. We've seen games with penalties killing drives, receivers dropping passes right to them, poor blocking and execution on running plays and conservative play calling by Hackett that hasn't worked. Overall after about 32 starts imo Zach has talent but poor football IQ. He's had many opportunities to rise about failures which good QBs do but he hasn't. Even yesterday the team was still shut out in the first half. 

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, doitny said:

Eli went 11-5 in his 2nd year with 24 TDs. he threw 4 TDs in one game that year. Zach never threw even 3. 

Eli had 56 TDs in his 1st 3 years in 39 games.  Zach has 23 TDs in 33 games.

and dont discount his last name. im sure he got more rope because people thought he could be like his brother.

Zach is historically bad, Eli was not.

Eli's a HOF QB who outplayed Rodgers in Green Bay to go to and win a SB against Tom Brady.  It's a weird comparison.  Eli would have never agreed to play for the Jets. 

[doitny]

16 minutes ago, Ken Schroy said:

Gibson and Cobb caught a pass. But this is just silly. Zach isn't good but "he only throws to 3 people"? LMAO

and they got just one throw each..

Jets Targets....

GW 134

Hall.. 66

Conklin 65

Lazzard 42

MC 20

Ruckert 20

 

[jetsons]

jets & zach are just 2 peas in a pod.

[football guy]

17 minutes ago, Biggs said:

But he didn't mentor him.  Zach is now a starting NFL QB.  It's nuts to sit behind an ageing QB who's likely done after 2 years in a row with big time injuries.  Jordan Love has the Packers playing better than they did 2 years ago with Rodgers.  The ship has sailed on Rodgers.  Zach shouldn't sit behind anyone after this year unless he's a career backup. 

These are merely your opinions, and I don't think Zach shares them with you. 

[jetswinbaby!]

Good...

Zach-as-victim narrative builds up his trade value...

[More Cowbell]

3 hours ago, Jet hustle said:

Seems like everyone is blaming the Jets Org for Zach sucking for the past 3 years.  Just a  bizarre take if you have actually watched him play.  Even Rex Ryan is going hard on this Hot Take.   It's just perplexing to me

Im watching the game now. The Texans D is playing like idiots. Good for Zach and the Jets for taking advantage 

[More Cowbell]

3 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

The Jets are an easy punching bag … and they often deserve it.

Not sure it’s fair in this case … UNLESS Zach balls out these next 4 games playing loose and taking risks rather than the scared box this team has put him in since early struggles as a rookie.

If this happens and it’s a BIG IF, then the Jets misplayed the risk reward game and failed to maximize & build around his talents.

You don’t draft a QB at #2 to be a game manager.  And if that’s what you felt he was after testing the merchandise, you should have upgraded to a better game manager as the primary backup this year.  

The funny thing is Zach was , well Zach the entire first half

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

3 hours ago, Jet hustle said:

Seems like everyone is blaming the Jets Org for Zach sucking for the past 3 years.  Just a  bizarre take if you have actually watched him play.  Even Rex Ryan is going hard on this Hot Take.   It's just perplexing to me

Watch Brock Purdy play, then watch Zach Wilson.

And by this, I don't mean it as an indictment of Saleh / the Jets vs Shanahan / the 49ers.

Purdy is so calm and sees the field so well, throws with elite timing and anticipation.

There's only so much you can do to "teach" these things.  It's a trait.

Yesterday was a mirage vs a defense (and team, frankly) in the Texans that didn't show up.

Zach Wilson is a "see it, throw it" QB in the mold of Jay Cutler, except he doesn't hang tough in the pocket, isn't nearly as decisive when he pulls the trigger and doesn't have the few years of elite production to show for it.

[T0mShane]

39 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

So they have a stat for covered and uncovered TD passes? How would a covered TD pass work? If they receiver is covered than he technically shouldn't catch the ball

Bickety, you and I are both football men.

[Wit]

The jets gave this kid more chances than ANY franchise would have given him. If anything a pox on JD for doing so and ruining this season.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[doitny]

6 minutes ago, football guy said:

These are merely your opinions, and I don't think Zach shares them with you. 

so Zach doesnt think he is a starting QB?

you think if Zach stays next year and becomes a FA he is going to agree to backup up Rodgers again in 2025? plus agree to a cheap backup contract for 2 years (25-26).?

 

[Fantasy Island]

One bad game didn't define Zach. One beautiful game didn't define Zach.  It was the body of work.  It was 3 seasons of underperforming play.  In the next 4 games we will see if this was an outlier or a trend.

My only fear is that this game like the Chiefs game gives the FO false hope, and we are in purgatory for another year with him.  Please move on.

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Watch Brock Purdy play, then watch Zach Wilson.

And by this, I don't mean it as an indictment of Saleh / the Jets vs Shanahan / the 49ers.

Purdy is so calm and sees the field so well, throws with elite timing and anticipation.

There's only so much you can do to "teach" these things.  It's a trait.

Yesterday was a mirage vs a defense (and team, frankly) in the Texans that didn't show up.

Zach Wilson is a "see it, throw it" QB in the mold of Jay Cutler, except he's not nearly as decisive when he pulls the trigger and doesn't have the few years of elite production to show for it.

This is what a good quarterback does.  The jets scout based on physical criteria.

see it throw it qbs do succeed, but it helps to 1) have pocket awareness, and 2) be accurate.  You have to be good at something to succeed 

[Adoni Beast]

26 minutes ago, doitny said:

Eli went 11-5 in his 2nd year with 24 TDs. he threw 4 TDs in one game that year. Zach never threw even 3. 

Eli had 56 TDs in his 1st 3 years in 39 games.  Zach has 23 TDs in 33 games.

and dont discount his last name. im sure he got more rope because people thought he could be like his brother.

Zach is historically bad, Eli was not.

My post was not a QB comparison at all, just a comparison on how organizations handle media pressure.

The Jets plan going into this year was that it would take 2- 3 years to develop Zach, which means starting this season was not part of their plan and therefore shouldn't have been benched at all this year. This is THEIR plan and I'm not saying I agree with it. But don't make the media bullies pressure you into a decision of starting Tim Boyle.

I think they should have gotten rid of Wilson this past offseason, signed a vet, and drafted a developmental QB. But again, their plan was Zach learning for 2-3 years so stick to it if you believe in it.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

2 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

One bad game didn't define Zach. One beautiful game didn't define Zach.  It was the body of work.  It was 3 seasons of underperforming play.  In the next 4 games we will see if this was an outlier or a trend.

My only fear is that this game like the Chiefs game gives the FO false hope, and we are in purgatory for another year with him.  Please move on.

Sam Darnold finished his rookie season strong with the proverbial "arrow pointing up".

That proved to be a mirage.

There is absolutely no way you can trust Zach Wilson enough to even consider keeping him beyond this rookie contract.

Yesterday was a gift in that there may be a team which becomes enamored enough by the appearance of competence yesterday to believe ZW is worth trading for.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

10 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

The funny thing is Zach was , well Zach the entire first half

An EPL score of 0-0 at halftime

100 yards of total offense by ZW and the Jets

I suspect the Texans' D wasn't used to being on the field for so long, with their offense punting so much

Them finally wearing down / "breaking" must have been a factor, whereas the Jets D has been conditioned for 40+ mins of action week after week 😃

[football guy]

4 minutes ago, doitny said:

so Zach doesnt think he is a starting QB?

you think if Zach stays next year and becomes a FA he is going to agree to backup up Rodgers again in 2025? plus agree to a cheap backup contract for 2 years (25-26).?

 

I think Zach sees a benefit of sitting behind Aaron Rodgers, yes. He has said so himself and was thrilled upon learning that he was going to be teammates with Aaron. 

The kid is 24 years old. I think he realizes that he can have a really long career if and when it all clicks for him. 1 or 2 or even 3 years as a backup to one of the best QBs of all-time is not such a bad thing if he's able to become a 10+ year starter after that

[Beerfish]

4 hours ago, Jet hustle said:

Seems like everyone is blaming the Jets Org for Zach sucking for the past 3 years.  Just a  bizarre take if you have actually watched him play.  Even Rex Ryan is going hard on this Hot Take.   It's just perplexing to me

Not surprising at all the national media, almost all of them are totally reactionary and recency bias is hilarious with them all.

As of today, Buffalo and josh allen will once again be huge threats.

Browning for the Bengals will be the next great QB.

Phlly will be in real trouble.

Dallas will be super bowl favs

KC will be on the outs.

Niners will be favs

Jets are a actually a good team.

Houston is way more flawed than thought.

It will all change again next week.

 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, football guy said:

I think Zach sees a benefit of sitting behind Aaron Rodgers, yes. He has said so himself and was thrilled upon learning that he was going to be teammates with Aaron. 

The kid is 24 years old. I think he realizes that he can have a really long career if and when it all clicks for him. 1 or 2 or even 3 years as a backup to one of the best QBs of all-time is not such a bad thing if he's able to become a 10+ year starter after that

He may wind up having a long career.  But here’s my issue.  There’s 5 qbs maybe more in the 2024 draft I’d take over him immediately.  And then there’s going to be a few more in the 2025 draft.  At best wilson is a low level starter.  That’s the best case IMO.  He’s not worth developing if only to prove that in 5 yrs he can become a poor man’s geno

[RutgersJetFan]

3 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Yep. I hypothesize it’s because he looks 12 years old. Folks have an instinct to defend children.

Not me. My children are assholes.

[Charlie Brown]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

Rhetoric is just that: rhetoric. The national rhetoric was also to sh*t on Zach every chance they got when things didn't go well for him. These are all just takes that lack context. 

Zach has a lot of talent. Its been clear that was the case since he joined the league. The problem has been that he and the Jets have struggled to find a balance of letting him play to his strengths while also having him play boring football within the schemes/philosophy our coaches have designed for him. There have been a number of road blocks and blame can/should be placed on himself, the coaches, the organization, media, etc. His career has largely been a series of unfortunate events, and I think his teammates, fellow players around the league, former players, etc. have picked up on it and are making their opinions known. 

My question to you is, if Zach Wilson plays well, the key that he PLAYS VERY WELL, then does the organization keep him?

 

[Warfish]

Clearly, at this point, it's time for all the toxic fans and Zach doubters to do the honorable thing...

[Biggs]

27 minutes ago, football guy said:

These are merely your opinions, and I don't think Zach shares them with you. 

Of course they're my opinions.  Who did you think I was speaking for?  Everything I post here is my opinions.  I don't pretend to represent anyone else's opinions.  

[Larz]

Can someone please provide an example of the rhetoric? Was just at espn and all they had was the chiefs crying about the call and dobbs getting benched for a hospital ball 

[football guy]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

He may wind up having a long career.  But here’s my issue.  There’s 5 qbs maybe more in the 2024 draft I’d take over him immediately.  And then there’s going to be a few more in the 2025 draft.  At best wilson is a low level starter.  That’s the best case IMO.  He’s not worth developing if only to prove that in 5 yrs he can become a poor man’s geno

You may be right, but that's just not how the Jets FO has seen it. They think he has the raw talent to be a top 10 QB in the league, but his problem has been consistency on a fundamental level. Their mindset was that by sitting and learning behind Aaron, focusing on the fundamentals and the nuances of the offense for a few years, he would emerge into the QB we saw yesterday on a consistent basis. He wasn't granted that opportunity because Aaron got hurt, but *if* he does end the season on a positive note, my guess is they'll try to convince him to run it back as Aaron's backup for a couple of years and get his full opportunity to prove himself as a franchise QB after that. Will that happen? No idea. I just know that's what the plan was for him. 

[Biggs]

20 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Watch Brock Purdy play, then watch Zach Wilson.

And by this, I don't mean it as an indictment of Saleh / the Jets vs Shanahan / the 49ers.

Purdy is so calm and sees the field so well, throws with elite timing and anticipation.

There's only so much you can do to "teach" these things.  It's a trait.

Yesterday was a mirage vs a defense (and team, frankly) in the Texans that didn't show up.

Zach Wilson is a "see it, throw it" QB in the mold of Jay Cutler, except he doesn't hang tough in the pocket, isn't nearly as decisive when he pulls the trigger and doesn't have the few years of elite production to show for it.

Brock Purdy is literally outplaying every NFL QB in the league this year by a very big margin.  His QBR is literally 23 points higher than Mahomes this year.  He's not having a good season.  He's having one of the great seasons in NFL history.  He's 10.4 Adjusted yards per catch is crazy good.  

[football guy]

8 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

My question to you is, if Zach Wilson plays well, the key that he PLAYS VERY WELL, then does the organization keep him?

 

I think the organization will leave it up to him. If he wants to come back as the backup they'll gladly have him back. If he wants a fresh start elsewhere they'll grant him that request, but it would be via trade. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

3 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Jets fans are often and unfortunately self loathing and we don’t want to admit that there is something wrong with the Jets as an organization!!!!

Let’s look at a take that was posted before and is closer to reality than we want to admit!

Ummmmmm follow the link ..

what a fantastic analysis, that guy is awesome, very much enjoyed that watch. Many Jets fans need to watch that as he is spot on with what he says. Thank you for sharing Charlie Brown!

[Biggs]

30 minutes ago, doitny said:

so Zach doesnt think he is a starting QB?

you think if Zach stays next year and becomes a FA he is going to agree to backup up Rodgers again in 2025? plus agree to a cheap backup contract for 2 years (25-26).?

 

Only if he and his handlers believe his ceiling is NFL career backup. 

[Adoni Beast]

5 minutes ago, football guy said:

I think the organization will leave it up to him. If he wants to come back as the backup they'll gladly have him back. If he wants a fresh start elsewhere they'll grant him that request, but it would be via trade. 

Is there a sense in the organization that he has not been played to his strengths, with a concerted effort to do so moving forward? I know that's a tricky line to cross from front office into the coaching purview, but I think its necessary at this point as there have been at least a handful of examples of the offense producing better with a more aggressive approach. 

[Warfish]

14 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Of course they're my opinions.  Who did you think I was speaking for?  Everything I post here is my opinions.  I don't pretend to represent anyone else's opinions.  

+1

It'd be nice if we didn't have to type IMO in every post that is clearly opinion.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

38 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

The funny thing is Zach was , well Zach the entire first half

 

He was OK, the offense was the offense.

But then the Jets opened the 2nd half throwing on 5 1st downs in a row.  That’s the number I recall reading ..  

[doitny]

25 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

He may wind up having a long career.  But here’s my issue.  There’s 5 qbs maybe more in the 2024 draft I’d take over him immediately.  And then there’s going to be a few more in the 2025 draft.  At best wilson is a low level starter.  That’s the best case IMO.  He’s not worth developing if only to prove that in 5 yrs he can become a poor man’s geno

and Saleh and JD cant afford to bring him back in 2026 as the unquestioned starter.

you just cant keep failing with the same guy over and over and over again. they cant afford to take that chance.