Brock Bowers

[derp]

17 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

This is a good point.  Asking the question "Is the position worthy of a 2nd contract?"   We're coming up on that question with Breece in 2 years.   If Bowers lives up to the hype then he'd be worth a 2nd contract, imo.

Having Travis Kelce making what he's making for the Chiefs as essentially a #1 WR at 60% of the cost (or thereabouts) is pretty much a salary cap cheat code. If you think you can have something like that long term, it's huge. That also assumes the market doesn't correct at the position. 

But if the market doesn't correct at the position, it's hard to have surplus value. And as a spot that guys are hard to develop and haven't lived up to draft position historically, it's kind of a tough sell.

Even Bowers, talented as he is, has never broken 1,000 yards in college. It's just a tough position to have a statistical impact plus the logistic concerns.

[JustInFudge]

6 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Name me the last top-10 TE to prove worthy of that type of premium draft capital.

The last 5 TE's to be drafted in the top 10 were:

Kyle Pitts - w/ a good QB, went for a 1k receiving 

TJ Hockenson - caught 95 balls this year before getting injured

Eric Ebron - meh, probably not worth it

Vernon Davis - had an awesome career

Kellen Winslow - psycho path but incredible his first few seasons

So even if you want to take Pitts out, which I personally would not, that's 3 out of 5.  Not bad.

[jetspenguin]

17 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

"Name me the last QB from OSU to prove worthy..." was the same type of argument until CJ Stroud.

that is not an answer sir

[Guilhermezmc]

Can't wait fo the CS draft him and let him ride the bench for 8 weeks until they decide that he's good enough to pass pro.

[August]

No thank you 

[BigRy56]

Yes. Move Ruckert to FB and run Conklin & Bowers as TEs. Move heaven and earth for one of these elite WRs hitting the market... Tee Higgins? If they do that, the Jets would be way above average in the offensive weapons category.

[DoubleDown]

Only premium positions in Round 1.  Thanks.

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, JustInFudge said:

The last 5 TE's to be drafted in the top 10 were:

Kyle Pitts - w/ a good QB, went for a 1k receiving 

TJ Hockenson - caught 95 balls this year before getting injured

Eric Ebron - meh, probably not worth it

Vernon Davis - had an awesome career

Kellen Winslow - psycho path but incredible his first few seasons

So even if you want to take Pitts out, which I personally would not, that's 3 out of 5.  Not bad.

Vernon Davis was pretty bad his first three years.  I don't think anybody is looking to drop a top 10 pick for his 265 rookie receiving yards.  He didn't breakout until his contract year. 

[bonkertons]

It's hard to even compare Bowers to previous tight ends.  Most of the top guys only had one year of high-end college production to go off of.  It was rare for a tight end draft prospects to have two season of elite play, much less three like Bowers.  Even more impressive is his numbers seemed to improve each year(he would have exceeded last year's totals but played 5 less games this year).  Most of the elite guys were also pretty much jacked up receivers.  I can't remember there ever being a TE prospect who ticked all the boxes that Bowers does.  Hands, route running, agility, ability after the catch(elusiveness AND strength), PLUS his blocking ability.  He's the dream tight end.  The only thing that isn't elite is his size, but I wouldn't exactly call him "undersized" either.  He might not be big enough to be an elite blocking TE at the NFL level, but still big enough to be a decent one.  

 

Whether or not TE is a need is irrelevant IMO, since what we need are weapons and he'd create a lot of matchup nightmares for DCs.  I think Rodgers would have a field day with a target like that.  It's at least an intriguing option to consider.  It's even more intriguing when you consider we can run 13 personnel and teams will still genuinely not know if we're going to run or throw the ball.  

 

Oh, and he's a true Junior.  Kid JUST turned 21.  As strong as he is now, he'll get stronger.  The potential here is ridiculous.  I get the risk for sure, and it's something I would have considered at pick 6 or 7, but at 10 if the conversation is between Bowers, the top RTs and the 3rd tier of WRs, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't leaning Bowers.

[THE BARON]

17 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If we do draft him, hopefully someone makes sure that Nate Hackett is aware that he's a very good pass catcher. 

Rodgers loves to throw to TE's.  Bowers is such a talented TE, I would bet a bunch that he wont last until 10. 

[JustInFudge]

29 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Vernon Davis was pretty bad his first three years.  I don't think anybody is looking to drop a top 10 pick for his 265 rookie receiving yards.  He didn't breakout until his contract year. 

Sure but he also played his early years w/ the bad Alex Smith, Trent Dilfer, Shaun Hill, Chris Weinke, JT O'Sullivan and Troy Smith.

 

[Barry McCockinner]

8 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Rodgers loves to throw to TE's.  Bowers is such a talented TE, I would bet a bunch that he wont last until 10. 

What are you basing this on? I just went back 5 years or so and didn't find a GB TE in the top half of the league in receptions, yards or TDs. It's possible I overlooked someone because the site listed a lot of them as FA rather than on a team. 

[Guilhermezmc]

47 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

Only premium positions in Round 1.  Thanks.

Guards and safeties please

[THE BARON]

29 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

What are you basing this on? I just went back 5 years or so and didn't find a GB TE in the top half of the league in receptions, yards or TDs.

Are you kidding ??? Look at all the sh*t he has been throwing at Travis Kelce.  And he's bee doing it with an achilles no less

[THE BARON]

40 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

What are you basing this on? I just went back 5 years or so and didn't find a GB TE in the top half of the league in receptions, yards or TDs. It's possible I overlooked someone because the site listed a lot of them as FA rather than on a team. 

kidding aside... I recall Rodgers went to Jared Cook a lot.   Finley too.  When he has a good TE on the field, he makes use of them.  

[Hex]

4 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

"Name me the last QB from OSU to prove worthy..." was the same type of argument until CJ Stroud.

The difference here is that it doesn't take school into account. TEs are just not the type of player you pick that high. Quarterbacks have way more potential to change a team than any TE ever could. OL and WRs can do what a TE does, albeit separately. These are the offensive players you pick in the top 16, not a TE.

And this is coming from somebody who really likes TEs.

[Bronx]

17 hours ago, bonkertons said:

Bowers at 10 I'd be thrilled.

Most importantly, we are 1-0  in 2024, regardless of sacrificing 2 slots in this year's draft. 

We are hot damn it, 1-0!

[THE BARON]

4 minutes ago, Hex said:

The difference here is that it doesn't take school into account. TEs are just not the type of player you pick that high. Quarterbacks have way more potential to change a team than any TE ever could. OL and WRs can do what a TE does, albeit separately. These are the offensive players you pick in the top 16, not a TE.

And this is coming from somebody who really likes TEs.

What about a TE that is as wildly skilled as Johnny Mitchell ??? Isn't that the kind of "FREAK" that JD loves to draft ???

I want an OT.  But because of the HEROIC  wins against the superlative Commanders and a hyper-talented Patriots team,  JD is not getting Alt or Fashanu

Although, Fuaga should be there.  Not too shabby...  

[chirorob]

4 hours ago, JustInFudge said:

The last 5 TE's to be drafted in the top 10 were:

Kyle Pitts - w/ a good QB, went for a 1k receiving 

TJ Hockenson - caught 95 balls this year before getting injured

Eric Ebron - meh, probably not worth it

Vernon Davis - had an awesome career

Kellen Winslow - psycho path but incredible his first few seasons

So even if you want to take Pitts out, which I personally would not, that's 3 out of 5.  Not bad.

Vernon Davis had 7000 yards over 13 years, hit double digit TDs twice, and never had 1000 yards.   Good, but not awesome.

TJ Hockenson, good player.  Also about 900 yards a year. 

Winslow, had a bad ACL tear, but also only about about 4800 yards his first 8 seasons.

[rex-n-effect]

It would be a fun pickup if the team could afford a luxury pick. I don't know how Douglas skips OL in the draft, even with some FA pick ups. The team needs another viable target or two, but that probably gets resolved in FA with an WR. 

[Larz]

Can he throw a spiral 50 yards with either hand…..from his knees?

[rbstern]

4 hours ago, derp said:

Even Bowers, talented as he is, has never broken 1,000 yards in college. It's just a tough position to have a statistical impact plus the logistic concerns.

Yards from scrimmage in his 2022 season:  1051.

The dude is a first down and TD machine.  He'll have a great NFL career.

Is he worth the #10 pick?  Probably.  But maybe not for an organization with barn-door sized hole for an o-line.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, JustInFudge said:

Bowers is exactly what this offense needs, a game breaking play maker that can get open quickly and can get the ball in his hands in multiple different ways.  He's legit one of the best TE prospects of all time.  His ceiling is HOF and TE goat conversation.  

He wont be there at 10.

 

I'll take your word for it how great he may be. A legit concern is that a TE taken so early more or less needs to hit that HOF-like ceiling to be worth the pick. He needs to be everything he's billed as being, plus he can't get injured (but that latter point goes for anyone taken that early). He pretty much has to be a 1000-yard TE with several TDs, otherwise (in terms of production) it's burning a top 10 pick on a 200-yard improvement over the likes of Tyler Conklin.

That's always the thing with taking a super low-value position that early, and it's a coin toss if RB or TE is considered the lowest value position, outside of special teams. He can't be just decent and can't get hurt; he needs to be incredible (the HOF player you describe). Maybe he will be, and you'd know better than I would, but I doubt I'd pull that trigger when entering the offseason with such needs at LT, RT, LG, and WR. 

A tackle? Yeah of course you want a great one deserving of probowl/all-pro honors year after year, but if he's pretty good it's still a worthwhile pick at 10 considering the extreme need there. 

[bitonti]

15 minutes ago, Larz said:

Can he throw a spiral 50 yards with either hand…..from his knees?

he can box jump out of the shallow end of a swimming pool 

does that help? 

(top comment: He's my PE teacher now LOL) 

[jamesr]

Most importantly, we are 1-0  in 2024, regardless of sacrificing 2 slots in this year's draft. 
We are hot damn it, 1-0!

I believe the correct phrase is "Jets are 1-0, b*tches!"

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[jamesr]

I'll take your word for it how great he may be. A legit concern is that a TE taken so early more or less needs to hit that HOF-like ceiling to be worth the pick. He needs to be everything he's billed as being, plus he can't get injured (but that latter point goes for anyone taken that early). He pretty much has to be a 1000-yard TE with several TDs, otherwise (in terms of production) it's burning a top 10 pick on a 200-yard improvement over the likes of Tyler Conklin.
That's always the thing with taking a super low-value position that early, and it's a coin toss if RB or TE is considered the lowest value position, outside of special teams. He can't be just decent and can't get hurt; he needs to be incredible (the HOF player you describe). Maybe he will be, and you'd know better than I would, but I doubt I'd pull that trigger when entering the offseason with such needs at LT, RT, LG, and WR. 
A tackle? Yeah of course you want a great one deserving of probowl/all-pro honors year after year, but if he's pretty good it's still a worthwhile pick at 10 considering the extreme need there. 

This is a good argument. Is Bowers replacing Conklin as #1 TE better for us than say Odunze replacing Lazard as #2 WR? Conklin would in theory benefit too from having a good #2 WR option for the defense to worry about.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[derp]

43 minutes ago, rbstern said:

Yards from scrimmage in his 2022 season:  1051.

The dude is a first down and TD machine.  He'll have a great NFL career.

Is he worth the #10 pick?  Probably.  But maybe not for an organization with barn-door sized hole for an o-line.

 

Even if you include the rushing yards the production isn’t eye popping.

People have been saying tight ends are going to be worth high picks off and on the last couple decades. Hasn’t happened. Maybe he’ll be the first. The on field demands and finances of the position make it challenging.

[Larz]

37 minutes ago, bitonti said:

he can box jump out of the shallow end of a swimming pool 

does that help? 

(top comment: He's my PE teacher now LOL) 

That was a post draft comment about this guy 

 

 

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, Larz said:

That was a post draft comment about this guy 

 

 

there's a comment to be made here about the Jets first round tight end curse 

but the kids won't get it 

[rbstern]

33 minutes ago, jamesr said:

This is a good argument. Is Bowers replacing Conklin as #1 TE better for us than say Odunze replacing Lazard as #2 WR? Conklin would in theory benefit too from having a good #2 WR option for the defense to worry about.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

A good WR2 isn't game changing.  Brock Bowers likely is.  The entire offense gets lifted because he has to be accounted for, the same way Garrett Wilson or Breece Hall changes how to game plan for the Jets.

Of course, if your QB is in the blue tent, it could be Jerry Rice in his prime and it wouldn't matter.

I love Brock Bowers.   But I don't love him as much as I love the idea of an elite o-line that makes EVERY offensive skill player better.  That's what the Jets should be after.

[rbstern]

2 minutes ago, derp said:

Even if you include the rushing yards the production isn’t eye popping.

People have been saying tight ends are going to be worth high picks off and on the last couple decades. Hasn’t happened. Maybe he’ll be the first. The on field demands and finances of the position make it challenging.

31 TDs in three years on the best overall college football team of that same period isn't eye popping?  On a team that's been loaded with talent?  George Pickens.  James Cook.  Ladd McConkey.  Darnell Washington.  A bunch of other guys playing in the NFL.

[section314]

6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

there's a comment to be made here about the Jets first round tight end curse 

but the kids won't get it 

So you are still on the kick that Warren Sapp was better than Kyle Brady?😎Sorry, couldn’t resist.

[RedBeardedSavage]

5 hours ago, JustInFudge said:

I agree they need them but they are also desperate for play makers.  And just because you need OL, you dont force the issue because of need and Bowers is a rare prospect.  This year T's prospect, are just like every single years T's prospects.  No studs, no stars, just run of the mill, dime a dozen, easy to find T's.  The position in general has become very easy to fill and can easily be addressed later in the draft and through FA.

But you're right, dont worry, he wont be there at 10, so yeah, maybe you get another Becton!

Outside of quarterback, tackle might be the most difficult position to fill in the sport.

There's a reason dudes who are a shade above average get 17+ million per year.

I don't know enough about Bowers to truly weigh in, but by far the biggest problem with this team in '23 (outside of the Rodgers injury) has been the offensive line. Doesn't look like much will be available in free agency either.

I think it's gotta be tackle.

[Sperm Edwards]

53 minutes ago, jamesr said:

This is a good argument. Is Bowers replacing Conklin as #1 TE better for us than say Odunze replacing Lazard as #2 WR? Conklin would in theory benefit too from having a good #2 WR option for the defense to worry about.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Lazard isn't going to be the #2 and wasn't supposed to be this year either. Only a guaranteed contract has him even on the roster ffs -- didn't he just get benched again, for UDFA rookie Brownlee, in a game where they weren't going to pass much anyway and Lazard's superior blocking would be in order? What a terrible signing, lol.

They bring in a Tyler Boyd-ish WR2 and - in combination with a serious QB throwing the ball ffs - it'll be a dramatic difference to get a guy off GW's jock. If they can do better than Boyd, great, but just to put a name on one guy.

The argument in the other direction is look at a team like Cincinnati -- they had bleh at LT and with 3 real WR weapons it didn't matter because a defense can't cover such a trio for 3 straight seconds. Not the same if it's GW + Boyd + Lazard + Conklin, which requires a better OL to buy that extra 0.3-0.4 seconds every snap.

It's still early January, so it's not yet known who'll be available in mid-March, and where prospects get projected after the combine and pro days. Lots can change. 

[Paradis]

14 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Would be one of the dumbest picks ever, even by embarrassing NYJ standards 

It's taken me a few offseasons to certify you, but I think we're there. Can't take anything you say seriously.

Maybe you don't like Brock because you haven't moved on from 1997 when it comes "Tight End" but regardless  -- Dumbest picks ever? Lol, go home. I'll call a cab.