Joe Douglas is not a "Terrible GM"

[kmnj]

He is terrible as shown by his record-his handpicked coach is terrible 

the most important position in football is QB and the production at the position during his tenure is the worst in the league almost every year and he even wasted a top pick at the position 

he brought old QB coming off ab average year and shocking an old qb got hurt - he had no viable back ups either - this year sane exact thing (Taylor is fragile too )

Folks will say but sauce wilson Breece my response Wilson Becton Mims 

If Joes plan works this year and the team wins and goes on a playoff run then I will crown him but if they bust out yet again on his watch fire his fat ass 

[Claymation]

6 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Typically means the GM hasn’t drafted well enough and needs to fill holes by spending on damaged goods 

I guess Lynch from SF is a bad GM, using your criteria. He has 19 FA on the 1st and 2nd team both Offense and Defense.

I guess you can say the same with Beane (16), Tobin (16), Berry (21) or Grier (26).

FYI, Douglas signed 18 FA

 

[Claymation]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It should.

Heaven help us if it doesn't.

Hardly, it would be par for the course.

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, Claymation said:

I guess Lynch from SF is a bad GM, using your criteria. He has 19 FA on the 1st and 2nd team both Offense and Defense.

I guess you can say the same with Beane (16), Tobin (16), Berry (21) or Grier (26).

FYI, Douglas signed 18 FA

 

Second team? Lol. 
 

McCafrey and Trent. Rest are via the draft.

[slimjasi]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Second team? Lol. 
 

McCafrey and Trent. Rest are via the draft.

You could argue that 2 of their best 3 offensive players (Christian McCaffrey and Trent Williams) were acquired via trade. 

A big key for them is that Mr. Irrelevant became a good QB. 

 

 

[Larz]

This place is wild lol.  Jets are having a productive healthy camp and y’all just killing each other lol.  

[Beerfish]

Joe Dogulas is a terrific gm at about 50% of the things you need to do as a gm and he is utterly awful at the other 50%.

In the end only one thing matters, team success and so far he is one of the worst gms the jets have had with his winning %

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

You could argue that 2 of their best 3 offensive players (Christian McCaffrey and Trent Williams) were acquired via trade. 

A big key for them is that Mr. Irrelevant became a good QB. 

 

 

Sure. McCafrey and Trent were acquired when they were already good though. The Jets are trying to get food via FA, because they’ve messed up the draft. Jets oline, 2 and 3 receivers and tight end are all acquisitions bc the draft picks haven’t worked out. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

Good thread and original post.

But I'll raise you to ludicrous speed! Joe Douglas is a good GM!

Mekhi sucks, but everyone misses from time to time.

Every quarterback in the '21 first round taken behind Trevor, sucks. And Trevor is pretty meh. But Trey Lance, Justin Fields, and Mac Jones? They all suck just like Zach Wilson sucks. 

Success in the league for a franchise has become completely quarterback-dependent and it seems like nobody outside of the Packers knows how to scout for them. 

So all this talk about JD or Saleh being trash is ridiculous. Let these guys have a functional MF'er behind center for once in their lives, and then we can assess. 

[varjet]

JD has made some terrible, terrible decisions, and some brilliant ones.  

His and Saleh's strategy is pretty simple-they draft for traits and hope they can coach them, but that often fails.  They they scout football players that they try to find on waivers and UDFA, and they have solid coaching on the defensive side. 

On offense the program has been a complete failure, until they went with the AR8 plan and took chances on some veteran/hurt OL.  It may work.  

This is it for them.  Honestly, it is 50/50 JD/Saleh are back next year, because Woody did not extend them.  If Woody was smart he would have negotiated an option to extend them (which would have cost him).  

So if the plan works, Woody has to negotiate a lucrative extension with no bargaining position.   During that new contract term AR8 will fade away, and then they will have to prove that they can build an offense again with regular parts, not fading HoF AR8.  I think they end up like the Mac/Bowles regime and ultimately get fired after being extended.   If the Jets to not make the playoffs/win a playoff game, Woody can fire them all without a breakage cost

If JD/Saleh are smart, they realize that and get out now.  But then again, there is a human element here.  JD, Saleh and Ulbrich have all bought nice houses in NJ, have families, etc.  Ulbrich is in Gase's old house.  Maybe they want to stay here?  

[slimjasi]

10 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Sure. McCafrey and Trent were acquired when they were already good though. The Jets are trying to get food via FA, because they’ve messed up the draft. Jets oline, 2 and 3 receivers and tight end are all acquisitions bc the draft picks haven’t worked out. 

The issue is that the Jets missed on the QB and LT in the draft - Zach and Becton were huge busts instead of being good players and it's really those two picks that set Douglas back. Replacing those two guys with Rodgers and Smith (and eventually Olu) is most of the reason people have hope for the Jets this year. 

Douglas had 2 bad drafts to start his tenure here,1 excellent one, and 2 TBD. I think it's a mixed bag - and if guys like MacDonald, Tiippman, Olu, Allen, and Corley turn into legit players, the Jets could very quickly have a pretty deep young core. If even half of those guys are good (Tippman and Allen probably are, at the very least), the Jets actually have a lot of good young players entering or in their prime. 

[Claymation]

20 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Second team? Lol. 
 

McCafrey and Trent. Rest are via the draft.

Brendel was with Dal, Mia, Den & Bal

Bartch was with Jax

Feliciano was with Giants

Dobbs was with Minn

Juszczyk was with Balt

Maybe you should stick with the Zach isn't on the Jets anymore thread.

 

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Brendel was with Dal, Mia, Den & Bal

Bartch was with Jax

Feliciano was with Giants

Dobbs was with Minn

Juszczyk was with Balt

Maybe you should stick with the Zach isn't on the Jets anymore thread.

 

We’re doing backups? Why? Their offense is mostly built via the draft. Perhaps stick with whatever else you stick with. 

[BradSmith16fan]

57 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Typically means the GM hasn’t drafted well enough and needs to fill holes by spending on damaged goods 

Jets legimately have a top flight roster.

[Matt39]

8 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

The issue is that the Jets missed on the QB and LT in the draft - Zach and Becton were huge busts instead of being good players and it's really those two picks that set Douglas back. Replacing those two guys with Rodgers and Smith (and eventually Olu) is most of the reason people have hope for the Jets this year. 

Douglas had 2 bad drafts to start his tenure here,1 excellent one, and 2 TBD. I think it's a mixed bag - and if guys like MacDonald, Tiippman, Olu, Allen, and Corley turn into legit players, the Jets could very quickly have a pretty deep young core. If even half of those guys are good (Tippman and Allen probably are, at the very least), the Jets actually have a lot of good young players entering or in their prime. 

There’s hope because of Rodgers. The defense is good. Defenses fluctuate though.  Rodgers has to be an MVP level player for this to work. The receivers should be better after Wilson. The tight ends should be better. The line shouldn’t be built via FA and a trade for a player who was already here. It’s squarely on the GM for not getting it done. 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, BradSmith16fan said:

Jets legimately have a top flight roster.

It’s a good roster thats  projected at 9 wins:

 

[varjet]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

There’s hope because of Rodgers. The defense is good. Defenses fluctuate though.  Rodgers has to be an MVP level player for this to work. The receivers should be better after Wilson. The tight ends should be better. The line shouldn’t be built via FA and a trade for a player who was already here. It’s squarely on the GM for not getting it done. 

JD has made a huge bet that AR8, Mike Williams and Tryon Smith can perform at a top level for little pay.  They are only on one year deals.  At least there is a plan to replace Smith-not so much Williams, but there is always the draft, etc.  

I don't think the odds on this are terrible.  

[bicketybam]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Rodgers has to be an MVP level player for this to work

Utter nonsense.

[BradSmith16fan]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

It’s a good roster thats  projected at 9 wins:

 

Pff has them 4th. 33rd team website has them 6th with #1 d. Mike Clay has them top 5. Sports illustrated top 10. This website is lowest I've seen. No clue how No is ranked above them. Lar and Dal either. Even Cle.

[Claymation]

16 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

We’re doing backups? Why? Their offense is mostly built via the draft. Perhaps stick with whatever else you stick with. 

Now you are just embarrassing yourself. Juszcyk and Brendel are both starters. Should we do the defense now?

For the love of all things holy!

 

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Now you are just embarrassing yourself. Juszcyk and Brendel are both starters. Should we do the defense now?

For the love of all things holy!

 

You were listing  backups? Juice I forgot started his career in Baltimore. The center was signed. QB, receivers, tight end and 4/5 OL all via draft. Significantly higher than the Jets.

[Larz]

The jets had a day if any of you are interested 

 

 

[bicketybam]

1 minute ago, Larz said:

The jets had a day if any of you are interested 

 

 

He looks washed 😜

[Fantasy Island]

5 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Is he great? Nope. Is he top 15? Not today. But is he "terrible"? "Incompetent"? "Downright awful and should be fired tomorrow"? No. 

 

Right now, the Jets Roster is considered a Top 10 roster in the league, not by me or other random Message board posters, but by MANY Football pundits, commentators:

 

- With 2024 training camp and the season around the corner, the 33rd Team website ranked the Jets roster as the sixth best in the league and the No. 1 defense.

- "If all goes right for the New York Jets in 2024, they could have an argument for ranking even higher on this list," NFL writer Ian Valentino stated. 

- "They have the league's top cornerback, Sauce Gardner," according to NFL Senior Writer Marcus Mosher. "Although he has only been in the NFL for two seasons, he's been a two-time All-Pro selection and the 2022 AP Defensive Rookie of the Year. But Gardner isn't the only reason the Jets rank so highly on this list. Quinnen Williams might be the NFL's best defensive tackle. He is just as good against the run as he is as a pass-rusher. Williams is only 26 and has improved every season. Williams and Gardner might be the NFL's best duo. "And don't forget about Quincy Williams, who is coming off an All-Pro season at linebacker. The Jets have three All-Pro defenders who are all in the primes of their careers. For that reason alone, they are No. 1 on our list."

-  According to Pro Football Focus (PFF), the Jets’ roster is ranked 4th best in the NFL for 2024 

- "Jets have top 5 roster heading into 2024: Aaron Rodgers is the most important player for the Jets and the biggest factor for a potential Super Bowl run, but the Jets have set themselves up with a group of players around Rodgers that make up one of the best rosters on paper in the NFL" The Sporting News 5/31/2024

 

Thats just a quick snapshot of what the "Media" is saying about the roster Douglas has built. "Terrible" GMs don't get those kinds of articles written about them. 

 

Is Joe Douglas perfect? Is he great? No, he is not. But right now, the Jets are drafting to the mean of the NFL, instead of being an outlier for futility. There are plenty of mid round guys playing significant roles on the team from the past few drafts, and aside from two GLARING, OBVIOUS misses, the drafting has been pretty darn good of late:

-2021 was a bit... rough (more on that later), but AVT is a starting OG and when healthy and left at his natural position, seems like a very high ceiling player. Michael Carter II (DB) is a very good player for the team, and Jamien Sherwood (5th rounder) seems like he's the heir apparent to CJ Mosley.

-2022 Speaks for itself.

-2023 is a work in progress, but Tippman looks to have overcome his shotgun snap problems and is the starting OC. Will McDonald was a head-scratcher but if he fills the role of DPR and can put together a 10+ sack season, he's a valuable commodity. Zaire Barnes is a seems like solid depth (that's more than you expect from the typical 6th Rounder). Israel Abanikanda seems to have been eclipsed by other new RBs, but he has size, speed, and has flashed as a runner.

-The 2024 draft seems to be trending in the right direction, but it's still too early to really know. Olu Fashanu may be a lockdown OT for a decade once Tyron Smith moves on and the rest of the draft has plenty of talent with Braelin Allen seemingly the stand-out.

 

And over that time, let's not dismiss the UDFA's the Jets have brought in that are significant contributors (or were) to the team... Huff, Gipson, Brownlee, etc. This current Jets FO has found more UDFA Talent in the last few years than the organization as a whole did in the 25 years prior - since probably Chrebet. 

 

Free Agency: What a mixed bag. Carl Lawson (whose existence someone only recently reminded me of) was a swing and a miss. Dude was always hurt. Corey Davis... bro... WHO could have predicted he would just flake out and retire? I'm sorry, I know we have some ambiguous, nebulous inferences that there was some type of "Family problem" or possible, speculative "Health Issue" that led to his random and ill-timed retirement... but still. Retire during Pre-Season? Really? With ZERO explanation? And then the Jets bend over backwards for the guy, to the point that they granted him a free and clear release because he said he wanted to be "close to home"... and he goes and tries out for THE BILLS on August 14th? Umm, What?? Allen Lazard and Randall Cobb were swings at meeting two needs, WR Depth and making AROD happy. Cobb is gone, and Lazard, well, he needs to get his sh*t together this year. FA is almost always a crap shoot, but aside the current O-Line with Moses, Smith, and Simpson, the team is mostly built off the draft at this point. If the O-Line is top 10 this year, the FA record starts looking a LOT better...

 

The BAD

The 2020 Draft is, in no uncertain terms, a black hole, with Ashtyn Davis the sole survivor of the virtual "Covid Draft". Mekhi Becton seemingly found every pre-draft concern and majored in them. His impressive size and athleticism at 6'7 365lbs made him look like the prototype and he was productive in college. But there were issues there the Jets couldn't overcome. Denzel Mims remains an enigma, as he is now currently completely out of the league. The rest of that draft is... forgettable. Total miss. 2020 was Douglas' first draft as THE GM of a team. It was a weird year. He was dealing with Adam Gase. It was 4 years ago. The roster has completely flipped since that draft, and the consequences have been navigated. 2020 was a terrible draft, and it seems like a lot of us still have a bit of a hangover from it since Becton was only recently let go, but it has not been indicative of the way the draft has gone since...

 

THE GIANT, UGLY ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM

No, it isn't Becton, JD himself, me, or The Crusher.... 2021 First Round Pick Zach Wilson completely hamstrung any progress and seemingly negated any other talent advantage the Roster had. He was grossly over-drafted. They had Darnold under contract, and while he was floundering, he still could have been the cheap bridge QB to build around for a year. The flaws in Wilsons game were on tape, but a very low-level schedule of opponents and a dominant O-Line made him look statistically better than he really was. He was immature. Small. And he sunk ANY potential the team had for 3 full seasons. It's hard to argue what the bigger mistake is... DRAFTING Wilson at #2 or continuing to reinforce the failure that he was displaying for his entire career in NY. SO far, much of the criticism Douglas receives is directly tied to #2. The win-loss record. The underperforming Offense. The "noise" and distractions. This was a move that should not have been made... but once it was and it was revealed very quickly that the team had no future moving forward with an underperforming, floundering QB, alternative solutions needed to be implemented (A disinterested Joe Flacco, Mike White, Tim Boyle, and Trevor Siemien are NOT "Serious" backup plans). The team chose to baby and coddle the player and sink the prospects of 52 other players, a Multi-Billion Dollar franchise, and massive fanbase for unclear reasons. Was that Douglas' doing, or higher up the chain of command? We probably won't find out for a while, BUT it happened on JD's watch, so he gets to lie in that bed. 

 

SO, taking EVERYTHING into account over the past 5 years since JD was hired in June of 2019... is he a "terrible" GM? I would say No, he is not. He had a VERY rough start and has managed to overcome it. He took a roster that in 2019 was on an XFL level and transformed it into an arguable Top 10 level collection of players in the course of 4 years. This was not a team a few pieces away, this was a roster and an organization that was suffering from organizational, systemic toxicity and insanity from the Gase years. A Team DEVOID of talent, not just undermanned. There were mistakes made (lol), but right now, they have seemingly largely overcome. The Defense is Top 3 in the league... possibly better (Get your ass to work, Reddick). The Offense has a LOT of talent... Garret Wilson and Breece Hall are game changers. Allen may also be at that level, tbh. Still a little thin at WR for my taste, but if Mike Williams is 85% of who he was for the Chargers and manages to stay mostly available, there is potential for the Offense to be top 10 - IF Rodgers stays upright. Thankfully, the O-Line seems as solid as its been since the Brick/Mangold days ON PAPER. We shall see... 

 

Oh, and a final note... and be honest. If you went back to 2021 and told yourself, yeah, it looks like we're hurting at QB, but in a few years, we're going to have Aaron Rodgers at QB going into a season with good Offensive Playmakers, a Game changing Running Back, and a top 3 defense... you would have said, "Where do I sign up?".

 

Anyway, that's all I have for today. Go away now...

 

 

 

JD is a chump.

[doitny]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Don't want to fire him because Woody's next hire will be a guaranteed flop on the level of Maccagnan.  No doubt about it.

So, I guess we're talking raise.  Assuming they win the division and/or make the playoffs this year and win a game when there (or at least look really good while losing).

If the season is a flop gotta clean house and start over regardless and just wait for Woody Johnson to depart from this mortal coil.

im with you on this. i dont want him fired and even if we dont make the playoffs as long as its close he should stay. but if its a flop then yeah everyone goes.

@Jet_Engine1 is right, this is a good roster. it overcame Zach Wilson for 2 years to win 7 games each. thats something in itself that doesnt get enough credit as it should for JD and Saleh.

this roster is one good QB away from a long playoff run. hopefully Rodgers can stay healthy and prove me right.

[slimjasi]

54 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

There’s hope because of Rodgers. The defense is good. Defenses fluctuate though.  Rodgers has to be an MVP level player for this to work. 

Depends what you mean by “work” -  They flirted with the playoffs 2 years ago with Mike white and Zach Wilson, so they can definitely contend for a playoff spot with an above average Aaron Rodgers. Not saying they make will make it, but they at least have a shot. 
 

Winning a SB is another matter entirely. Perhaps they need MVP-level Rodgers (and a whole lotta luck) for that. 

Even if the defense regresses (a fear of mine), the offense is also much improved around the QB compared to the past 2 years. 

[jgb]

We know terrible. JD isn't terrible. But is he extension-worthy? Gotta win for that. Let's see.

[Bleedin Green]

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

The team inherited from the "low point" of 7-9 in 2019 and has so far climbed to a "peak" of 7-10 in 2023.  A number of GMs have been fired for less during that period.  He has been given a 6th chance, so no reason for anyone to think that will suddenly change now, but needs to show far more than a growing list of excuses.

[20andOut]

4 hours ago, Testaverde9819 said:

 

He took a RB high( bad draft philosophy)

 

Do you want me to keep going???

 

 

Are you bitching about the drafting of Breece Hall????    WOW!!!!

 

[Fantasy Island]

9 minutes ago, doitny said:

im with you on this. i dont want him fired and even if we dont make the playoffs as long as its close he should stay. but if its a flop then yeah everyone goes.

@Jet_Engine1 is right, this is a good roster. it overcame Zach Wilson for 2 years to win 7 games each. thats something in itself that doesnt get enough credit as it should for JD and Saleh.

this roster is one good QB away from a long playoff run. hopefully Rodgers can stay healthy and prove me right.

Joe hasn’t gotten us to a winning record much less the playoffs in over 5 years.  He sucks.

[Bronx]

1 hour ago, kmnj said:

He is terrible as shown by his record-his handpicked coach is terrible 

the most important position in football is QB and the production at the position during his tenure is the worst in the league almost every year and he even wasted a top pick at the position 

he brought old QB coming off ab average year and shocking an old qb got hurt - he had no viable back ups either - this year sane exact thing (Taylor is fragile too )

Folks will say but sauce wilson Breece my response Wilson Becton Mims 

If Joes plan works this year and the team wins and goes on a playoff run then I will crown him but if they bust out yet again on his watch fire his fat ass 

We forget annals. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Second team? Lol. 
 

McCafrey and Trent. Rest are via the draft.

Moaning about good players because they were FAs, as if they weren’t scouted and brought in is plain stupid.

[Trotter]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

This place is wild lol.  Jets are having a productive healthy camp and y’all just killing each other lol.  

Some of us might remember a cartoon where was a rooster and a dog. They worked in a quarry and would carry their lunchpales.

they would beat the piss out of each other every day but when the whistle blew for end of day they would leave together as if nothing happenec

who knew whiever created it envisioned this forum

[OilfieldJet]

33 minutes ago, doitny said:

im with you on this. i dont want him fired and even if we dont make the playoffs as long as its close he should stay. but if its a flop then yeah everyone goes.

@Jet_Engine1 is right, this is a good roster. it overcame Zach Wilson for 2 years to win 7 games each. thats something in itself that doesnt get enough credit as it should for JD and Saleh.

this roster is one good QB away from a long playoff run. hopefully Rodgers can stay healthy and prove me right.

Whoa, you lose me here, no Playoffs this year and JD to the door. Immediately. 6 strikes and you are out.

[Creepy Lurker]

24 minutes ago, Bronx said:

We forget annals. 

Anal?!?!