Zero Sox being named = bogus

[Garb]

Misplaced Yankee fan anger is hilarious.

....as a Pats fan, that sounds familiar.

[Bugg]

Some of you Yankee fans are unbelievable.

If a board member of the Yankees did an "investigation" in which he strongarmed a Sawx employee and a current Sawx player into talking to him, and spoke to no one associated with the Yankees, I wonder if you'd be spouting off about the wonderful job he had done. Mitchell said he "understood" why players didn't talk to him, but apparently had no compunction about dragooning Giambi.

I'm very familiar with Northern Ireland. It got sorted out because the economy of the south suddenly got better than that of the north and arguably England, and the church on both sides of the border ceased to matter to people in thw wake of numeorus financial and sexual scandals. Mitchell jsut happened to be there. Geroge Mitchell is a complete and total hack douchebag who's probably having dinner with the rest of the Sawx board this evening. Cheers gents! Eff the Yankees!

[GimmeShelter]

Giambi talked to avoid suspension for his newspaper comments.

[Mavrik]

"Susbstantial evidence"-Brian Macnamee,Radomski, and two players, including Giambi being forced to do so, and some unnamed player. So 1 guys who worked for the Jays and Yankees, 1 for the Mets. Susbtantial indeed.

Note-remarkably Mark Mcgwire isn't named.

Giambi was the only known active player forced to talk to Mitchell by Selig. Macnamee and Radomski were both facing jail sentences and looking to name names to avoid it. So Mitchell either didn't get cooperation from the team he's a board member of, or didn't bother to demand anyone else talk to him, and Sleig didn't threatn anyone other than Giambi. Why did they even bother, other than to embarrass some players? And notably many with ties to the Yankees and few with ties to the Red Sox.

1. Giambi is one of the few who actually admitted to steroid use. Bonds didn't. McGwire didn't.

2. Please provide substantial undeniable proof aside from the andro in 98 (which was legal at the time) and whatever Jose Canseco mentioned (as detailed in the Mitchell report) that McGwire knowingly took steroids, either through admission, some document, or a witness testimony.

3. If the Yankees are the flagship franchise of MLB (which they are) and your drawing the biggest ratings from playoffs and World Series in which the Yankees are a participant, why would Selig seek to destroy that, or allow it to be destroyed?

[Mavrik]

by the way, im curious if this is such a "attack the Yanks" report why Derek Jeter and Alex Rodriguez aren't listed as steroid users. How do we know they didn't juice up? So far nobody here's provided actual proof that Varitek or Manny took roids so why shouldn't A-Rod or Jeter be held up to the same suspicion?

[shawn306]

I swear I think most of you are probably upset because you have nothing to trash talk about. (Yankee fans that is)

I look at this list and I would say probably 80-85% of these guys were taking steroids to keep themselves on a MLB roster. I mean seriously

Marvin Bernard

Larry Bigbie

Hal Morris

Ron Villone

etc,etc,etc

I don't think MLB is going to a damn thing about it. They made 6 billion dollars last year with all this looming over their heads. Do you think all of sudden that is going to change now ?

Call me pessimistic but this list is pretty dissapointing if you ask me.

If your biggest names are Tejada, Clemens, Pettitte then I think Mitchell did an awful job with this report.

[Maxman]

by the way, im curious if this is such a "attack the Yanks" report why Derek Jeter and Alex Rodriguez aren't listed as steroid users. How do we know they didn't juice up? So far nobody here's provided actual proof that Varitek or Manny took roids so why shouldn't A-Rod or Jeter be held up to the same suspicion?

Jeter weighs 160 pounds. If he are Mariano took roids they got ripped off worse than Jeremy Giambi!

[Blackout]

basically the guys they spoke with were either NY based or Bay area based trainers

i'm not surprised

[Bugg]

1. Giambi is one of the few who actually admitted to steroid use. Bonds didn't. McGwire didn't.

2. Please provide substantial undeniable proof aside from the andro in 98 (which was legal at the time) and whatever Jose Canseco mentioned (as detailed in the Mitchell report) that McGwire knowingly took steroids, either through admission, some document, or a witness testimony.

3. If the Yankees are the flagship franchise of MLB (which they are) and your drawing the biggest ratings from playoffs and World Series in which the Yankees are a participant, why would Selig seek to destroy that, or allow it to be destroyed?

So in his "thorough professional and comprehensive" investigation, Mitchell never sought ot talk to anyone other than Giambi. Not Sosa, Palmiero, Tejada. Great work. he didn't even get or seek to speak to members of even his own organization, which is pretty embarrassing. What took so long if they spoke to essentially all of 4 guys-Giambi, Macnamee, Radomski and the unnamed player. That took 18 months. What a waste of time and money. I suspect George Mitchell couldn't find an African-American on 125th Street, though Bud Selig would complement Mitchell on the great investigation he conducted-TO NOWHERE-anyway.

[The Troll]

I did not notice very many Cubs on the Mitchell Report.

I think George Mitchell was involved in a conspiracy to make the Cubs look good.

[nj meadowlands]

Thor, you're right on most of the time sorting through Yankee homerism. But if you don't think Mitchell had a bias, I laugh at you.

[Thor99]

Thor, you're right on most of the time sorting through Yankee homerism. But if you don't think Mitchell had a bias, I laugh at you.

You can laugh at me all you want, most women do.

To say Ortiz isn't on the list because of some conspiracy is what's laughable.

Arod should be on the list. MLB told Mitchell to leave him off of the list because he's the biggest star. See how easy it is?

[Lil Bit Special]

So in his "thorough professional and comprehensive" investigation, Mitchell never sought ot talk to anyone other than Giambi. Not Sosa, Palmiero, Tejada. Great work. he didn't even get or seek to speak to members of even his own organization, which is pretty embarrassing. What took so long if they spoke to essentially all of 4 guys-Giambi, Macnamee, Radomski and the unnamed player. That took 18 months. What a waste of time and money. I suspect George Mitchell couldn't find an African-American on 125th Street, though Bud Selig would complement Mitchell on the great investigation he conducted-TO NOWHERE-anyway.

Did you read the report?

[Lil Bit Special]

I did not notice very many Cubs on the Mitchell Report.

I think George Mitchell was involved in a conspiracy to make the Cubs look good.

and that is extremely tough to do:p

[JonEJet]

All the players on there are just human....if I could take a pill, and quadruple my salary, I'd do it

You're naive to say anything different

Also, it is naive to say that a BOSTON RED SAWX OWNER does not have a financial bias to keeping his investment secure

It's all bad, all the way around

[CrazyCarl40]

Also, it is naive to say that a BOSTON RED SAWX OWNER does not have a financial bias to keeping his investment secure

He is not a Red Sox owner. He is on the Board of Directors. He is an employee. This has been gone over and over. Stop beating the dead horse. NO one besides Yankee fans are complaining about this, when they should be complaining about their own team and their own ownership for not curbing the drug element in their clubhouse.

[Kidhuman]

1. Giambi is one of the few who actually admitted to steroid use. Bonds didn't. McGwire didn't.

Agreed

2. Please provide substantial undeniable proof aside from the andro in 98 (which was legal at the time) and whatever Jose Canseco mentioned (as detailed in the Mitchell report) that McGwire knowingly took steroids, either through admission, some document, or a witness testimony.

You tell me what man in his mid 30's has acne marks on his face the size of potholes only found on the BQE during construction periods after being clean in his 20's

3. If the Yankees are the flagship franchise of MLB (which they are) and your drawing the biggest ratings from playoffs and World Series in which the Yankees are a participant, why would Selig seek to destroy that, or allow it to be destroyed?

Selig hates George. Everyone knows tat. George defied him at every turn possible.

I did not notice very many Cubs on the Mitchell Report.

I think George Mitchell was involved in a conspiracy to make the Cubs look good.

The only Cubs they could have interviewed were having surgery that day.

[Kidhuman]

I am not surprised at most names on the list. I am not shocked that Pettitte appeared there. He was told he needed TJ surgery and declined only to be pitching again next year? Go figure.

I was surprised to see Chuck Knoblauch on there. The guy couldnt throw a ball from 2nd to 1st and he used something? He got ripped the fu*k off.

[JetCane]

I was surprised to see Chuck Knoblauch on there. The guy couldnt throw a ball from 2nd to 1st and he used something? He got ripped the fu*k off.

Maybe he just had weird side effects from taking it.

Him not being able to make a simple throw was the craziest thing.

[haggis]

Can we bin this thread on the grounds of it being ill-informed, idiotic, stupid crap? Sox players were named but a hell of a lot of Oriole players were also. Yankee fans are veeeeerrrry paranoid right now. The report did its job: kicked MLB in the ass. Note I'm not saying the yankees got kicked or Baltimore got kicked. The report clearly states ALL teams were involved and cites current Sox management as actively signing known steroid users.

Btw, Bugg: if you want to weigh in with regards to the political and religious angle that was the peace settlement involving Ireland then you need to know that England IS NOT the United Kingdom. England's economy had very little to do with it. The UK's did. There is no Queen of England, there hasn't been for 300 years. Get with the times. That said, I wish my country would finally divorce itself from the Union and be independent.

[Blackout]

when they should be complaining about their own team and their own ownership for not curbing the drug element in their clubhouse.

hahahahaha listen to this guy act like boston never has had a roid issue

[Bugg]

Can we bin this thread on the grounds of it being ill-informed, idiotic, stupid crap? Sox players were named but a hell of a lot of Oriole players were also. Yankee fans are veeeeerrrry paranoid right now. The report did its job: kicked MLB in the ass. Note I'm not saying the yankees got kicked or Baltimore got kicked. The report clearly states ALL teams were involved and cites current Sox management as actively signing known steroid users.

Btw, Bugg: if you want to weigh in with regards to the political and religious angle that was the peace settlement involving Ireland then you need to know that England IS NOT the United Kingdom. England's economy had very little to do with it. The UK's did. There is no Queen of England, there hasn't been for 300 years. Get with the times. That said, I wish my country would finally divorce itself from the Union and be independent.

All? Macnamee worked for the Jays and Yanks, Radomski for the Mets, Giambi for the A's and Yanks. We don't know who the "unknown" player is. 4 consversations, all practically durress(Gaimbi and the "unknown" for MLB, Macnamee and Radomski from the feds), millions spent, hours wasted. If kicking ass involves talking to all of 4 people, affiliated with just a few of the 30 teams, not one of them being the one Mitchell has an interest in, I guess this qualifies. Heck, he didn't even talk to guys we know tested positive-Byrd(good time to leak that one-great job, Georgie!), Mota, Palmiero, et al. Sheffield, who testified in the Bonds grand jury, was not given the same 5th degree Giambi got; can anyone explain that? So guys who MLB suspended weren't even required to talk to him as part of their punishment. Think of it-MLB didn't even make the guys it KNOWS FROM TESTS WHO VIOLATED THE POLICY TALK TO MITCHELL. Is that a joke or what?

rE-iRELAND.We can agree to disagree. But George Mitchell, professional blowhard, had zero to do with it either way.

[Matt39]

Is Grimsley the unknown player?

[Thai Jet]

Mitchell works for the Red Sox. How is that not played into this?

Youre completely naive.

[Thai Jet]

Gagne is on it as well.....Mo Vaughn.

Yankee fans at times come up very small.

At times ?

[Thai Jet]

Ted Kennedy, Bob Packwood, Larry "Wide Stance" Craig, Al Damato. Yeah, being a senator automatically means you're a wonderful person. Sure.

Better they just say what ever happened before this is over. Anyone who fails a test now is in trouble. This report and RSN Member Mitchell are a joke. And I hope one of these guys who is falsely accused in this report sues the balls off MLB and Mitchell.

Just because Ted Kennedy left some poor girl to drown in his car is no reason to brand him forever as a non wonderful person. Wait it is, your right. Never mind.

[Bugg]

Just because Ted Kennedy left some poor girl to drown in his car is no reason to brand him forever as a non wonderful person. Wait it is, your right. Never mind.

The man named his dog Splash. Figured Dewars or Johnny Walker or Fredo would be a better choice. It's like the Exxon Valdez captain naming his dog Oil Slick, or a NASA space shuttle executive naming his dog Challenger.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2006-01-09-kennedy-children_x.htm

[anskyruben]

As much as I hate everything Boston, this is about baseball. Those of us with a brain know the this is just the tip of the iceberg.

[PFSIKH]

Big Papi told the Boston Herald that he couldn't say for sure if he had ever used performance-enhancing drugs in the past, but if he did, it was when he was much younger.

"I tell you, I don't know too much about steroids, but I started listening about steroids when they started to bring that [****] up... I started realizing and getting to know a little bit about it. You've got to be careful."

"He certainly didn't juice while he was in Minnesota, or the slugger would still be there. Ortiz never hit more than 20 homers or 75 RBIs in the 6 seasons he was there and was never paid more than $1 million salary."

Plus, he never played an average of 150 games a season.

I am not saying he did or did not.

However, you have a guy that goes from his young 20s playing in a pitcher's park to his prime and playing in a hitter's park with a short left porch. Plus, the talent level in Boston on the hitting side has been a tad better. We are to be surprised by his numbers why?

Go figure Yank fans get some sand in their mangina. Did Mitchell's position affect the list? Probably. Their have been players past and probably current that are jucing. Go figure.

Damm quit your whining.

Brady Anderson going from 18 to 50 and back down is suspicous.

[GimmeShelter]

The NYPOST pointed out today why the Sox were in large part spared on that list.

Mitchell simply did not have access to the source in their clubhouse like he did with the NY clubhouse attendant along with MacNamee. The same holds true for other teams throught baseball.

If not for the Mets clubhouse guy and Clemens personal roid guy supplying names, Mitchell's list would have basically been a Balco repeat with the addittion of some new info from the Grimsley bust.

We can pretty much be assured that yesterdays list was just a small number of the users throughout the game.

[Bugg]

"However, you have a guy that goes from his young 20s playing in a pitcher's park to his prime and playing in a hitter's park with a short left porch."

Since when is the Homer-dome a pitcher's park?

Plus, the talent level in Boston on the hitting side has been a tad better. We are to be surprised by his numbers why?

I dunno-his head size doubled, may be? Another Festivus miracle !

Go figure Yank fans get some sand in their mangina. Did Mitchell's position affect the list? Probably.

DUH!Which is all we Yank fans are saying. He didn't manage to identify the Sawx'version of Radomksy or Macnamee(and I'm sure he exists, as such a character probably does for every team). Nor did he identify or interview possibly someone like those guys associated with almost every team. In fact, he spent $20 million to interview 4 people over 18 months. Good work if you can get it.

Their have been players past and probably current that are jucing. Go figure.

Agreed.

[PFSIKH]

"However, you have a guy that goes from his young 20s playing in a pitcher's park to his prime and playing in a hitter's park with a short left porch."

Since when is the Homer-dome a pitcher's park?

Plus, the talent level in Boston on the hitting side has been a tad better. We are to be surprised by his numbers why?

I dunno-his head size doubled, may be? Another Festivus miracle !

Go figure Yank fans get some sand in their mangina. Did Mitchell's position affect the list? Probably.

DUH!Which is all we Yank fans are saying. He didn't manage to identify the Sawx'version of Radomksy or Macnamee(and I'm sure he exists, as such a character probably does for every team). Nor did he identify or interview possibly someone like those guys associated with almost every team. In fact, he spent $20 million to interview 4 people over 18 months. Good work if you can get it.

Their have been players past and probably current that are jucing. Go figure.

Agreed.

Ever hear of the park factor?

The Twins dome has historically favored pitchers with it's ranking in the low 100s or under. 100 being the mendoza line of over being good for hitter and under good for pitcher.

Do you want to guess which park favors pitchers more? Hitters?

Again, when jealous skank fan brought this up before, someone posted a pic of Papi in Minny vs Boston. He was just as big then in the head and arms. If anything he has more of a gut.

There are some names on the list so you can stop your whining.

[mbn007]

Did you read the report?

Yes I did. And Bugg is correct here.

The bottom line is that Mitchell based his entire report on Federal cases (Bonds), FBI raids (Pharmacy in Fla., Albany DA office, Balco) and the testimony of 1 Mets clubhouse attendant, and 1 Yankee trainer. Nothing from any other team, nothing from any other player aside from Thomas (the "unnamed player") and Giambi.

How seriously can this report be taken when he did not touch on the other 28 teams? All his player s mentioned had ties to one of the above groups. He left out, IMO, 93.3% of all users (28/30). He only received information from 2 of the 30 teams.

[mbn007]

There was substantial evidence provided along with every player he listed in the report.

There is actually little in the way of evidence if the 80 players actually used the drugs. There is evidence that they paid for, or received the drugs, but except for about 20 of them, no evidence that they used the drugs exists.

Except for some assumptions and hear-say from Radomski. I spoke to a Labor lawyer friend, who has had extensive dealings with MLB in the past, and it is his opinion, that if some of these players sued, they would win easily, as there is precious little in the way of evidence that shows actual use, for most of them.

[Mavrik]

Jeter weighs 160 pounds. If he are Mariano took roids they got ripped off worse than Jeremy Giambi!

Nook Logan took roids too and the guy's maybe 170 lbs if he's lucky.

Weight doesn't mean anything. Doesn't mean I think Jeter did roids, all I'm saying is there are some people who are completely disregarding this report for the sole reason that no big red sox are on it and it's ridiculous. I'm not saying I fully support the Mitchell Report. Just saying George Mitchell wouldn't waste his time on something as petty as trying to screw the yanks over.

The report gives us a good amount on some players, but not enough on everyone. This report was never going to be able to list every single player who ever did roids. You'll never be able to get that information. When you don't have the power of subpoena, of course, no one who's done roids is going to volunteer to come talk to you. So he had to rely on the only testimony he was able to get (i.e. balco, giambi, and a mets trainer). Is this report unreliable in terms of scope? Probably. But I think most people want to disregard it solely because it didn't name the players they wanted to get named. It tends to repeat most information we already knew, but at the same time, who knew before this report came out that Clemens and Pettitte used HGH?