Jets Defense, Changes Coming ?

[Smashmouth]

Just watched the post first round Jets press conference and Rex has said Coples will be a defensive lineman with his hand in the dirt. With that being said it brings up a few questions and some things I brought up months ago.

Are the Jets moving to a 4-3 ?

They bring in Dunbar from the Vikings who is a 4-3 DL coach which is a totally different style of play for the lineman. Why bring in a Dunbar to coach a different style when hes been extremely successful in the 4-3 ?

DL is arguably the deepest position on the team and we have other needs so why go after a lineman ? if a 3-4 DE gets you 4-5 sacks you consider yourself lucky so does this move help our passrush as much as a killer OLB would ? Doubtful

Once again those thinking this kid will play OLB should listen to Rex who has made it very clear this kid will be on the line and compares him to Richard Seymour.

More Questions..... could the Jets be happy with the young back up LB's ? I mean we certainly seem to be slowing down at the positon but once again if we go to a 4-3 we might not be in as bad a shape at LB as we would be if we stayed in a 3-4. Personally I think if we were going to stay in a 3-4 we would have targeted LB's rather than DE's .

[khesanh]

Just watched the post first round Jets press conference and Rex has said Coples will be a defensive lineman with his hand in the dirt. With that being said it brings up a few questions and some things I brought up months ago.

Are the Jets moving to a 4-3 ?

They bring in Dunbar from the Vikings who is a 4-3 DL coach which is a totally different style of play for the lineman. Why bring in a Dunbar to coach a different style when hes been extremely successful in the 4-3 ?

DL is arguably the deepest position on the team and we have other needs so why go after a lineman ? if a 3-4 DE gets you 4-5 sacks you consider yourself lucky so does this move help our passrush as much as a killer OLB would ? Doubtful

Once again those thinking this kid will play OLB should listen to Rex who has made it very clear this kid will be on the line and compares him to Richard Seymour.

More Questions..... could the Jets be happy with the young back up LB's ? I mean we certainly seem to be slowing down at the positon but once again if we go to a 4-3 we might not be in as bad a shape at LB as we would be if we stayed in a 3-4. Personally I think if we were going to stay in a 3-4 we would have targeted LB's rather than DE's .

I think the biggest problem about the 3-4 as of late is that there aren't many colleges that produce OLB's at their natural position and when coaches have a deficit of talent at that position they look outside that position and try to turn an athlete into a OLB regardless of what their combine looks like

I really would like this to happen we can trade scott, pace and a pick for upshaw

Calvin is very slow off the edge and Scott could cover his own a$$. we have had a few guys in camp that can fill the ILB spot. With the surrounding talent we can compensate for the loss of Scott you would have Upshaw, Coples, Wilkerson, Ellis, Pouha, Harris and (Nick Bellore, Eddie Jones or Josh Mauga) or put Maybin at the outside and Coples as well move Upshaw next to Harris and still have your DL rotations

[GREENBEAN]

I just look at it this way. Is Coples an upgrade over Devito? While Devito is a nice player and reliable since he's been here, he's not scaring anyone and also not getting to the QB from the DE position. If we move to a 4-3 like has been suggested, maybe Devito can slide inside, but really he will most likely just moce to backup DE where he is supposed to be. I like him, but his lease is up. It's time to trade him in for a new one. (I feel mean saying that by the way )

[slats]

DL is arguably the deepest position on the team and we have other needs so why go after a lineman ?

This is one of the things I like about the pick. It tells me the Jets were true to their board and took the BAP rather than trying to specifically fill a need. To me, that's the key to a solid draft. For people who expressed concern that the Jets took every bit of time working the phones, the fact that the top player on their board didn't fill an immediate need may've played a part.

That said, I also had thoughts about more 4-3 coming from the Jets, and this move certainly gives them more flexibility in that direction. t

[Smashmouth]

This is one of the things I like about the pick. It tells me the Jets were true to their board and took the BAP rather than trying to specifically fill a need. To me, that's the key to a solid draft. For people who expressed concern that the Jets took every bit of time working the phones, the fact that the top player on their board didn't fill an immediate need may've played a part.

That said, I also had thoughts about more 4-3 coming from the Jets, and this move certainly gives them more flexibility in that direction. t

The bold is more along the lines of what I meant as well... Im not looking for a complete change to 4-3, just more of it. I think with the Depth we have and a solid rotaion we could create a lot of pressure in the 4th quarter when it really counts by keeping our DL fresh.

[Integrity28]

I'm prepared to see multiple fronts, as per the norm for Rex. That said, I do think we'll see more 4-3, more Nickel, and of course the 46... given our personnel right this moment.

Days 2 and 3 of this draft could change that though.

[Integrity28]

The bold is more along the lines of what I meant as well... Im not looking for a complete change to 4-3, just more of it. I think with the Depth we have and a solid rotaion we could create a lot of pressure in the 4th quarter when it really counts by keeping our DL fresh.

Yeah, I think everyone expects mixed fronts. But with Wilk, Pouha, Devito and Coples, all with their hands in the dirt, I think your expectations are warranted. I'm looking forward to seeing a lot of QBs on their asses.

[The Crusher]

The bold is more along the lines of what I meant as well... Im not looking for a complete change to 4-3, just more of it. I think with the Depth we have and a solid rotaion we could create a lot of pressure in the 4th quarter when it really counts by keeping our DL fresh.

Seems to me Rex is coming to grips with his inability to get pass rush from the 3-4. Watching the Giants win the

superbowl couple times in 5 years with the pass rush from the 4-3 is getting to him. Plus with everyone going 3-4 he probably realizes having some 4-3 personal is possible.

[JustInFudge]

Just watched the post first round Jets press conference and Rex has said Coples will be a defensive lineman with his hand in the dirt. With that being said it brings up a few questions and some things I brought up months ago.

Are the Jets moving to a 4-3 ?

They bring in Dunbar from the Vikings who is a 4-3 DL coach which is a totally different style of play for the lineman. Why bring in a Dunbar to coach a different style when hes been extremely successful in the 4-3 ?

DL is arguably the deepest position on the team and we have other needs so why go after a lineman ? if a 3-4 DE gets you 4-5 sacks you consider yourself lucky so does this move help our passrush as much as a killer OLB would ? Doubtful

Once again those thinking this kid will play OLB should listen to Rex who has made it very clear this kid will be on the line and compares him to Richard Seymour.

More Questions..... could the Jets be happy with the young back up LB's ? I mean we certainly seem to be slowing down at the positon but once again if we go to a 4-3 we might not be in as bad a shape at LB as we would be if we stayed in a 3-4. Personally I think if we were going to stay in a 3-4 we would have targeted LB's rather than DE's .

The Jets show multiple front. Rex says he'll be a DE but he'll line him up at OLB. You can bet on that. I was watching Footage of his proday the other day and Rex had him standing up doing LB drills. He'll play both position despite what Rex says today.

I think Slats said, it...this was a BAP pick. Coples was by far the best player on the board and the way the draft fell...they can still find their OLB if they really want in the 2nd. Branch, Curry, Upshaw, Brown...on of them will still be there. I suspect that will be the pick, followed by a OL in the 3rd. OL has slipped a ton. Shock Glenn didnt go first round and would be even more shocked if St. Louis didnt take him 1st pick of the 2nd.

[slats]

The bold is more along the lines of what I meant as well... Im not looking for a complete change to 4-3, just more of it. I think with the Depth we have and a solid rotaion we could create a lot of pressure in the 4th quarter when it really counts by keeping our DL fresh.

This makes sense. The Jets DL >>>> LB - there's just no question about that right at this moment. If they're looking to get their best players on the field, they're going to have to use more 4-3, or play Coples at OLB more than they're saying right now.

As people were saying last night, I do trust Rex and Pettine to get the best defense on the field.

[Klecko73isGod]

Yeah, I think everyone expects mixed fronts. But with Wilk, Pouha, Devito and Coples, all with their hands in the dirt, I think your expectations are warranted. I'm looking forward to seeing a lot of QBs on their asses.

You're forgetting Ellis. Think of a four man front with Wilk, Pouha, Ellis and Coples. You'd have to run all the way outside the numbers just to get around those monsters.

[whodeawhodat]

In Rex we trust. he knows his personel better than we do and he sure as sh*t has a plan for next year. Looking forward to seeing what our defense looks like come August. i was hoping for a LB but like others mentioned we can get a quality LB in the second round. DLINE seemed to be a premium pick this year.

[KSJets]

You're forgetting Ellis. Think of a four man front with Wilk, Pouha, Ellis and Coples. You'd have to run all the way outside the numbers just to get around those monsters.

And on passing downs.... Pace - Wilkerson - Coples - Maybin

[JustInFudge]

You're forgetting Ellis. Think of a four man front with Wilk, Pouha, Ellis and Coples. You'd have to run all the way outside the numbers just to get around those monsters.

:drool:

And like KS Jets said...Maybin in there on passing downs. Forget about it!

Just the idea of Mo Wilk and Coples in beast mode on each end is awesome to think about.

[DMaynard]

Moving to more 4 man fronts is not a big deal for the Jets. That is because they are an unusual 3-4 defense in that they play much more one gap than the two gap that traditional 3-4 defenses play. With more depth and quality at DL than LB, it makes pefect sense to expect them to play more 4 man fronts which, for them, is not a big change.

I have always favored the one gap, but for a 3-4 team to play it puts a tremendous amount of stress on the inside LBers. With more 4 man fronts, look for David Harris to have a really big year and Scott might even look more like his former self.

[LionelRichie]

to win the afcE the Jets need to beat NE who throws the ball 40 times / game. 3-4 or 4-3 really doesn't matter at all when you play NE since the Jets play 5,6, or 7 DB's and need DL who can rush the passer.

[SenorGato]

What's Dunbar's different style?

[Integrity28]

You're forgetting Ellis. Think of a four man front with Wilk, Pouha, Ellis and Coples. You'd have to run all the way outside the numbers just to get around those monsters.

I didn't forget him, I just listed the starters.

Frankly, I trust Rex with D-lineman more than anything else. He got great play from Shaun Ellis at the end of his career, made Pouha one of the top NT's in football, turned a flier pick on Devito into a relevant starter... and now he's got actually talented guys with Wilk and Coples. Its going to be great.

[Jetsfan80]

Moving to the 4-3 would also further explain why Bart Scott is all but a goner.

Coples-Pouha-Ellis-Wilkerson

Thomas-Harris-Pace

With a couple new LB's added to the mix either via the draft or free agency. I can roll with that as our base front 7, with Rex throwing in a lot of different looks.

[Smashmouth]

You're forgetting Ellis. Think of a four man front with Wilk, Pouha, Ellis and Coples. You'd have to run all the way outside the numbers just to get around those monsters.

Pouha and Ellis pushing the pocket with Coples and Wilk coming from the outside would be nice keeping guys like Brady from stepping up would be huge since hes much less effective when he cant step up same thing with Manning if we meet him in the playoffs.

The more 4-3 we run the less Maybin we will see since he is not suited to play LB in a 4 -3 set/

[Bleedin Green]

This makes sense. The Jets DL >>>> LB - there's just no question about that right at this moment. If they're looking to get their best players on the field, they're going to have to use more 4-3, or play Coples at OLB more than they're saying right now.

As people were saying last night, I do trust Rex and Pettine to get the best defense on the field.

That's the thing right there. I think one of Rex's biggest strengths is that he's probably one of the least stubborn coaches, at least when it comes to his defense. He's not the kind of guy who's going to stick square pegs in round holes just because he needs to run "his scheme". He'll play whatever he feels will get his best 11 on the field and get the best out of them to boot. Rex is not Mangini, who's going to play DRob at 3-4 NT. If nothing else, there's certainly plenty of flexibility.

[Smashmouth]

Moving to the 4-3 would also further explain why Bart Scott is all but a goner.

Coples-Pouha-Ellis-Wilkerson

Thomas-Harris-Pace

With a couple new LB's added to the mix either via the draft or free agency. I can roll with that as our base front 7, with Rex throwing in a lot of different looks.

Yep and I would love to see Bellore get a shot he would be a nice fit as the 4th backer in a 4-3 set the guy has a motor and can make plays plus im excited about anyone Westhoff endorses

[SenorGato]

That's the thing right there. I think one of Rex's biggest strengths is that he's probably one of the least stubborn coaches, at least when it comes to his defense.

He's not the kind of guy who's going to stick square pegs in round holes just because he needs to run "his scheme". He'll play whatever he feels will get his best 11 on the field and get the best out of them to boot. Rex is not Mangini, who's going to play DRob at 3-4 NT. If nothing else, there's certainly plenty of flexibility.

HAVE to point out that Robertson was only the NT because there was no other...Remember that was during the time that Pouha spent more time on IR than on the field.

[SenorGato]

Also, 80 I don't think Bryan Thomas is all that much in their plans next year. Vet min for depth...

[Bleedin Green]

HAVE to point out that Robertson was only the NT because there was no other...Remember that was during the time that Pouha spent more time on IR than on the field.

My point was more the fact that the Jets had nothing close to what even remotely resembled 3-4 personnel at the time, yet Mangini insisted on running it anyway, since that was "his scheme". Most coaches are the same way, but that's not Rex at all, and he'll gladly take the best defensive players you give him and build his D around them.

[HessStation]

Exotic packages and scheme diverse are cool things to say. They sound fancy.

[SenorGato]

My point was more the fact that the Jets had nothing close to what even remotely resembled 3-4 personnel at the time, yet Mangini insiJsted on running it anyway, since that was "his scheme". Most coaches are the same way, but that's not Rex at all, and he'll gladly take the best defensive players you give him and build his D around them.

You're editing history...they had nothing resembling a 4-3 either...Robertson was arguably the only starting caliber DT on the roster. There was terrible personel on that D. After Ellis friggin Thomas and Rhodes were the studs...That says everything.

[Bleedin Green]

You're editing history...they had nothing resembling a 4-3 either...Robertson was arguably the only starting caliber DT on the roster. There was terrible personel on that D. After Ellis friggin Thomas and Rhodes were the studs...That says everything.

You're right, Mangini is a defensive genius and Rex could really use to learn a thing or two from him.

[SenorGato]

You're right, Mangini is a defensive genius and Rex could really use to learn a thing or two from him.

You could have just not replied and not wasted two people's time. That's not even remotely what I'm saying.

[Bleedin Green]

You could have just not replied and not wasted two people's time. That's not even remotely what I'm saying.

No, you're just accusing me of editing history while conveniently ignoring the fact that the Jets actual two best defenders in Abraham and Vilma were both sent packing directly related to Mangini's insistence on a scheme change. That's not even mentioning that a number of other starters (DRob, Barton, Hobson) were forced into positions they didn't come close to fitting in.

[Integrity28]

You could have just not replied and not wasted two people's time. That's not even remotely what I'm saying.

Ironic. .. from the guy that has a couple years worth of posts redundantly defending defense of Schotty. I'd have thought time wasting was your favorite way to spend time.

[Stonehands]

We've drafted back to back 3-4 defensive ends in the last two drafts and you wonder if we are switching to a 4-3?

[Il Mostro]

You're forgetting Ellis. Think of a four man front with Wilk, Pouha, Ellis and Coples. You'd have to run all the way outside the numbers just to get around those monsters.

This is the best use of talent, assuming Coples is as-advertised and Ellis shows major progress. D-line was consistently worn down late in games, so you cannot have enough capable bodies. Getting burned less on blitzes would be nice.

[Klecko73isGod]

This is the best use of talent, assuming Coples is as-advertised and Ellis shows major progress. D-line was consistently worn down late in games, so you cannot have enough capable bodies. Getting burned less on blitzes would be nice.

Ropati

MTV

Pouha

DeVito

Ellis

Wilkerson

Dixon

Coples

8 BEASTS.

[KINGDIRK]

Perhaps Rex thinks Coples could be a 3-4 DE in the mold of Justin Smith of the 49ers; both have similiar builds.

Smith averaged 7.5 sacks over the past 3 years. If Coples could rush the QB from DE and WIlkerson can chip in a little from his side - then you got something cookin....