Bowles horrendous time managment rears its ugly head.....again

[nyjunc]

8 minutes ago, Gaffneycatch said:

Also needed to have the team in a hurry up during the second to last possession.

they didn't necessarily have to be in  hurry up but they needed a sense of urgency, they blew at least 2 mins off the clock.  if they scored the TD that would have been ok but they kicked a FG.  that really cost them on that last drive.

[Jetsbb]

4 hours ago, RESNewYork said:

Again if what you're saying is true you're assuming the Patriots are throwing the ball with 2:40 left. I say they threw it because the Jets still had a TO. If the Jets call a TO with 2:40 left, the pats can run the ball down to the 2 minute warning leaving the Jets with no time outs. It was the correct call.

You think with 2:50 seconds left facing 3rd and 6 that Bill Bellicheck would run the ball just to burn the Jets last timeout and give the ball back to the Jets with 2 minutes left. Bill Bellicheck is not a rookie head coach he has been coaching for a long ****ing time and has a history. 10 out of 10 times he throws the ball to win the game over giving the ball back to the other team with 2 minutes left just to burn a timeout.

It was not the correct call. It was an insanely stupid call but keep convincing yourself because no one else with a brain will think it was.

[Gaffneycatch]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

they didn't necessarily have to be in  hurry up but they needed a sense of urgency, they blew at least 2 mins off the clock.  if they scored the TD that would have been ok but they kicked a FG.  that really cost them on that last drive.

Hurry up. Sense of urgency. Whatever you want to call it -- they needed to be getting the plays off quicker and not taking the play clock down below 10, and even 5 seconds with the clock running. No way to know if it cost them because the last drive was stopped anyway, but having another minute on the clock when they got the ball back might have changed the whole profile of that drive.

[RESNewYork]

2 minutes ago, Jetsbb said:

You think with 2:50 seconds left facing 3rd and 6 that Bill Bellicheck would run the ball just to burn the Jets last timeout and give the ball back to the Jets with 2 minutes left. Bill Bellicheck is not a rookie head coach he has been coaching for a long ****ing time and has a history. 10 out of 10 times he throws the ball to win the game over giving the ball back to the other team with 2 minutes left just to burn a timeout.

Yes. That's the normal play. You run the clock to the 2 minute warning if the Jets have no timeouts remaining. Why would the Pats are any team throw it on 3rd down and give the Jets the two minute warning when they have no timeouts. You run it to the two and punt. 

I get it, there have been issues in the past that pissed you off. Yesterday was not one of them

[Gaffneycatch]

1 minute ago, Jetsbb said:

You think with 2:50 seconds left facing 3rd and 6 that Bill Bellicheck would run the ball just to burn the Jets last timeout and give the ball back to the Jets with 2 minutes left. Bill Bellicheck is not a rookie head coach he has been coaching for a long ****ing time and has a history. 10 out of 10 times he throws the ball to win the game over giving the ball back to the other team with 2 minutes left just to burn a timeout.

This was already mentioned, but the fact that the Patriots were able to have the 2 minute clock stoppage burned on the change of possession (also a clock stoppage), is a point that needs to emphasized. Bowles would have been trading a timeout not just for 40 - 50 seconds on the clock (a good trade in itself), but also would have been able to benefit from the 2-minute stoppage (which the Jets didn't benefit from the way it played out). 

 

But whether Belicheck would have run or passed with 2:50ish on the clock, I don't know.

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

Yes. That's the normal play. You run the clock to the 2 minute warning if the Jets have no timeouts remaining. Why would the Pats are any team throw it on 3rd down and give the Jets the two minute warning when they have no timeouts. You run it to the two and punt. 

I get it, there have been issues in the past that pissed you off. Yesterday was not one of them

We saw the same sh*t we saw with Ryan Fitzpatrick as we are seeing with Josh McCown common denominator  is Todd Bowles. 

[RESNewYork]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

We saw the same sh*t we saw with Ryan Fitzpatrick as we are seeing with Josh McCown common denominator  is Todd Bowles. 

Well then the Jets should draft or sign a better QB than Fitzpatrick or McCown. What is a coach to do except play the best players to win?

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, RESNewYork said:

Well then the Jets should draft or sign a better QB than Fitzpatrick or McCown. What is a coach to do except play the best players to win?

Mike Maccagnan passed on the QB that is leading the NFL in TD passes all while we desperately needed a QB. 

[RESNewYork]

3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Mike Maccagnan passed on the QB that is leading the NFL in TD passes all while we desperately needed a QB. 

Yes it sucks. We need a QB. But fans of the Browns, 49er's, Jaguars, Bills, and Bears feel the same way. Mac was not the only GM to pass.

You wish Mac was better but I guess Watson was not a slam dunk and he's probably surprising a lot GM and scouts right now.

[joewilly12]

6 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

Yes it sucks. We need a QB. But fans of the Browns, 49er's, Jaguars, Bills, and Bears feel the same way. Mac was not the only GM to pass.

You wish Mac was better but I guess Watson was not a slam dunk and he's probably surprising a lot GM and scouts right now.

Watson had all the skills and tools a lot of us saw it he wasn't a crap shoot selection, we needed a QB it was a no brainer.  Macc stubbornly decided Hack was the future here, if thats the case why are we starting a 38 year old NFL career stat loser QB and Hack isn't active on game days. 

[RESNewYork]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Watson had all the skills and tools a lot of us saw it he wasn't a crap shoot selection, we needed a QB it was a no brainer.  Macc stubbornly decided Hack was the future here, if thats the case why are we starting a 38 year old NFL career stat loser QB and Hack isn't active on game days. 

OK then I wish you had Mac's ear. My only point is Mac wasn't the only GM to pass on Watson. Browns, 49er's, Jaguars, Bills, and Bears who need a QB as much as we do passed on him.

I wish we had Watson now as well but since we don't, I could care less about his success.

[joewilly12]

8 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

OK then I wish you had Mac's ear. My only point is Mac wasn't the only GM to pass on Watson. Browns, 49er's, Jaguars, Bills, and Bears who need a QB as much as we do passed on him.

I wish we had Watson now as well but since we don't, I could care less about his success.

Understood but we needed a QB we lacked a decent possible franchise QB Macc ignored this. 

[ljr]

Bowles time management is as bad today as it was day 1 ... Agree with posters stating that despite any other + or - 's ... This fact will cost us close games as long as Bowles is here 

[C Mart]

10 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Just hang a sign in the locker room saying "TAKE THE DELAY OF GAME" 

It'd be nice if any of our awesome beat writers would ever ask Bowles if they had a policy in place about burning timeouts in the second half. The team sucks, but the failure to grasp situations that a 12 year old in Madden can, is maddening. The timeout is worth more than 5 yards. 

He said postgame presser it would be addressed in the coaches meeting this week

look around the NFL this crap goes on w/every team and the subsequent fanbase criticism. Every team. Every week. 

[Philc1]

23 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

Is Bowles perfect? 

Age-old debate

[Gas2No99]

EDIT

[Gas2No99]

Jets waste timeouts because offense moves at glacial pace

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- The New York Jets wasted two timeouts in the third quarter Sunday because the play clock was running down, and that's something they can't blame on referee Tony Corrente and the NFL replay command center.

"We have to get the calls in earlier," running back Matt Forte said after the 24-17 loss to the New England Patriots.

He's right.

In both situations, the Jets didn't get to the line of scrimmage until the 10-second mark on the play clock -- actually, it appeared to be eight or nine seconds on the second one. In other words, they used 30 seconds (give or take) for the process of calling the play, relaying it to quarterback Josh McCown and calling it in the huddle.

That's inexcusable.

 

Jets running back Matt Forte says they've got to get the play calls in earlier. David Hahn/Icon Sportswire

It's not like they made wholesome substitutions. In fact, they made only one change in each situation -- ArDarius Stewart replaced Robby Anderson at wide receiver on the first play and Jeremy Kerley replaced Anderson on the second. Everything else stayed the same.

Coach Todd Bowles said, "We can't botch things up and let the clock run down." He insisted it wasn't a communications issue, adding that "we'll discuss that in the coaching room."

John Morton is a first-time offensive coordinator who operates a West Coast offense, known for its wordy play calls. A typical play call is 10 to 12 words, and it must go from Morton (in the coaches booth) to quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates (on the sideline) to McCown.

The irony is that Morton stressed tempo in training camp, trying to teach the offense to play at a faster pace, but it hasn't worked out that way. In fact, the Jets have one of the slowest-moving offenses in the NFL. They average 30.8 seconds per play in terms of time of possession, the second-slowest mark. The Kansas City Chiefsaverage 31.1 seconds, per ESPN Stats & Information. (In case you're wondering, the San Francisco 49ers are the fastest at 25.3.)

This probably will be a point of emphasis this week for the Jets. Last week, they tweaked the practice regimen to help combat the slow starts, and it worked, as they scored on their first and third possessions.

Now it's time to focus on tempo.

[Beerfish]

So if you fumble the ball, it rolls into the endzone, you recover the fumble before it goes out of the endzone it is still a touchcback?  Because that is what they in effect ruled.

[Gas2No99]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

So if you fumble the ball, it rolls into the endzone, you recover the fumble before it goes out of the endzone it is still a touchcback?  Because that is what they in effect ruled.

I posted that article in the wrong thread, I moved it over to the "refs" thread by Jetster.

TO answer your question:

It's ONLY a touchback if you are out of bounds when you "recover" the ball in the end zone.

PS - ALso, I believe the same player who fumbled can not recover the ball and have it advanced after the fumble, it will only get the "forwarded yardage" if recover by another player. The fumbling player who re-recovered the ball would have it placed back at the place of the fumble.

It's annoying as hell, but it is what it is. And it's in the past. ON TO MIAMI!

[Jets Voice of Reason]

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

So if you fumble the ball, it rolls into the endzone, you recover the fumble before it goes out of the endzone it is still a touchcback?  Because that is what they in effect ruled.

Ruling is conditional depending on which side the Patriots are on this ruling

[hawk]

What seems to go unnoticed is the 5 seconds the officials stole on the false start at 2:10 seconds.  They punt at 2:10 the Jets get the ball back with 2 minute warning still.  

[hawk]

On 10/16/2017 at 10:31 AM, Jimmy 2 Times said:

The greatest coach ever burned a TO to save a five yard too many men penalty.

Which would have resulted in a first down, right?

[Sperm Edwards]

On 10/16/2017 at 1:12 AM, SAR I said:

What was actually worse was the decision making at the end of the first half where after escaping a scoring scare with a missed FG Bowles had his sketchy quarterback throwing the ball.  Instead of going into halftime with a lead, the game was tied and you knew it was all over.

SAR I

The Patriots are all offense no defense this year, and our defense isn't so hot either. The one thing you don't do is surrender any of our possessions and try to sit on a 1-touchdown lead in the first half, with NE getting the ball to start the 3rd Q.

We were doing just fine on that drive until Shell got penalized for illegal hands to the face. That turned a 2nd & 1 from NE's 38 yd line into 1st & 20 from our 43. Different plays get called, different pressure situation for the QB, the OC, everyone. Absent that penalty, there's an excellent chance we go into halftime with a 17-7 lead (and a not-unrealistic chance at a 21-7 lead).

Had we given up an extra possession, that began almost on the 40 yd line, then he'd (appropriately) get killed for sitting on a 1-TD lead against one of the game's top offenses. I've never heard of such logic to forgo a free first-half possession, which started with good field position, because we might commit a penalty and then a turnover with under a minute left in the half. 

If they're afraid of that, then don't bother playing in the first place.

There's plenty to criticize Bowles for doing, but that isn't one of them.

[Bugg]

1 hour ago, Gas2No99 said:

Jets waste timeouts because offense moves at glacial pace

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- The New York Jets wasted two timeouts in the third quarter Sunday because the play clock was running down, and that's something they can't blame on referee Tony Corrente and the NFL replay command center.

"We have to get the calls in earlier," running back Matt Forte said after the 24-17 loss to the New England Patriots.

He's right.

In both situations, the Jets didn't get to the line of scrimmage until the 10-second mark on the play clock -- actually, it appeared to be eight or nine seconds on the second one. In other words, they used 30 seconds (give or take) for the process of calling the play, relaying it to quarterback Josh McCown and calling it in the huddle.

That's inexcusable.

 

Jets running back Matt Forte says they've got to get the play calls in earlier. David Hahn/Icon Sportswire

It's not like they made wholesome substitutions. In fact, they made only one change in each situation -- ArDarius Stewart replaced Robby Anderson at wide receiver on the first play and Jeremy Kerley replaced Anderson on the second. Everything else stayed the same.

Coach Todd Bowles said, "We can't botch things up and let the clock run down." He insisted it wasn't a communications issue, adding that "we'll discuss that in the coaching room."

John Morton is a first-time offensive coordinator who operates a West Coast offense, known for its wordy play calls. A typical play call is 10 to 12 words, and it must go from Morton (in the coaches booth) to quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates (on the sideline) to McCown.

The irony is that Morton stressed tempo in training camp, trying to teach the offense to play at a faster pace, but it hasn't worked out that way. In fact, the Jets have one of the slowest-moving offenses in the NFL. They average 30.8 seconds per play in terms of time of possession, the second-slowest mark. The Kansas City Chiefsaverage 31.1 seconds, per ESPN Stats & Information. (In case you're wondering, the San Francisco 49ers are the fastest at 25.3.)

This probably will be a point of emphasis this week for the Jets. Last week, they tweaked the practice regimen to help combat the slow starts, and it worked, as they scored on their first and third possessions.

Now it's time to focus on tempo.

The   s l o w   pace of play calls and failure to hurry up late in games has been a calling  card of Bowles' Jets. One thing you would expect a real NFL head coach to have addressed in 3 years. Basically the guy or his OC call plays, but strategy is beyond them. 

[Bugg]

14 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The Patriots are all offense no defense this year, and our defense isn't so hot either. The one thing you don't do is surrender any of our possessions and try to sit on a 1-touchdown lead in the first half, with NE getting the ball to start the 3rd Q.

We were doing just fine on that drive until Shell got penalized for illegal hands to the face. That turned a 2nd & 1 from NE's 38 yd line into 1st & 20 from our 43. Different plays get called, different pressure situation for the QB, the OC, everyone. Absent that penalty, there's an excellent chance we go into halftime with a 17-7 lead (and a not-unrealistic chance at a 21-7 lead).

Had we given up an extra possession, that began almost on the 40 yd line, then he'd (appropriately) get killed for sitting on a 1-TD lead against one of the game's top offenses. I've never heard of such logic to forgo a free first-half possession, which started with good field position, because we might commit a penalty and then a turnover with under a minute left in the half. 

If they're afraid of that, then don't bother playing in the first place.

There's plenty to criticize Bowles for doing, but that isn't one of them.

Pats were getting the ball back to start the 3rd quarter. Can't fault them for being a  little aggressive there.It simply didn't work.  In fact almost looked like theJets grasped after a crappy 2nd quarter scoring 14 points wasn't going to win the game. This jets team is pretty bad, which means to win games you have to take some chances. This was one of the few times under Bowles looks like they almost got that. 

[RESNewYork]

40 minutes ago, Bugg said:

The   s l o w   pace of play calls and failure to hurry up late in games has been a calling  card of Bowles' Jets. One thing you would expect a real NFL head coach to have addressed in 3 years. Basically the guy or his OC call plays, but strategy is beyond them. 

if you get your wish and they fire Bowles, then hopefully the next coach's greatest strength is clock management.

Just FYI this happens to every team in the NFL. QB's jumping up and calling a time out when the play clock is about to expire.

[SAR I]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The Patriots are all offense no defense this year, and our defense isn't so hot either. The one thing you don't do is surrender any of our possessions and try to sit on a 1-touchdown lead in the first half, with NE getting the ball to start the 3rd Q.

We were doing just fine on that drive until Shell got penalized for illegal hands to the face. That turned a 2nd & 1 from NE's 38 yd line into 1st & 20 from our 43. Different plays get called, different pressure situation for the QB, the OC, everyone. Absent that penalty, there's an excellent chance we go into halftime with a 17-7 lead (and a not-unrealistic chance at a 21-7 lead).

Had we given up an extra possession, that began almost on the 40 yd line, then he'd (appropriately) get killed for sitting on a 1-TD lead against one of the game's top offenses. I've never heard of such logic to forgo a free first-half possession, which started with good field position, because we might commit a penalty and then a turnover with under a minute left in the half. 

If they're afraid of that, then don't bother playing in the first place.

There's plenty to criticize Bowles for doing, but that isn't one of them.

Momentum had shifted, Patriots had scored, Jets couldn't move the ball.  Several three-and-outs, after a bye funk the Patriots were on their game again.

With 1:38 left in the half, the Patriots move the ball and line up for a FG.  47 yards.  A gimmie for Gostkowski.  He misses.  Bullet dodged.  Only 1:08 on the board.  Jets can kill the clock and despite how poorly the second quarter went still feel good that they're up by 7 against the Super Bowl Champs.  Great halftime awaits.  Rah rah speeches.  Lots of energy.  Go Jets.

Instead, it's 6 straight passes, 2 of which stop the clock, and 1 of which is an interception.  What?  6 straight passes?  Josh McCown?  Interception.  Belichick is playing with house money, goes for the home run pass, why not, bing bang boom, game is tied in under 26 seconds.  26 seconds.  Touchdown.

There was a time and a place to be aggressive, and 1:08 on the clock having just dodged a bullet and ready to put Tom in the locker room feeling despondent is not one of them.  Bowles lost the game right then and there.

SAR I

[fusionCA]

so for 2 years people here complain that Bowles sit on the football to end the 1st half with time outs or not.

and when he try to score(playing a team that scores a lot mind you) people now complain why he didnt sit on the football...

 

there was nothing wrong with trying to score  , i hope he does that every game.

McCown made a bad throw  , thas all there is to it 

[Ecuadorian Jet]

On 10/15/2017 at 9:35 PM, Jetsbb said:

 

I would hire John Morton as head coach and fire Bowles at the end of the season. No matter how much Bowles "overachieves"  with a at best 8-8 record we will always be at a disadvantage with him leading the team.

I'm not against the idea of parting ways with Bowles, but please please please no more rookie head coaches.

[jack48]

On 10/16/2017 at 1:10 AM, RutgersJetFan said:

I don’t know what it is but the Jets haven’t had a coach that was able to grasp the concept of how important timeouts are since Parcells. Rex was dogsh*t with them too, and Mangini kept it together his first year before god knows what the hell happened. Not to mention Herm having to bring in a clock management specialist. 

What is so hard to grasp about not burning your TOs in a close game? Absolutely take the delay. 

Remember Dick Poll?  He did not help

[Jimmy 2 Times]

I think it was Dick Curl.  Whata name.

[nyjunc]

8 hours ago, SAR I said:

Momentum had shifted, Patriots had scored, Jets couldn't move the ball.  Several three-and-outs, after a bye funk the Patriots were on their game again.

With 1:38 left in the half, the Patriots move the ball and line up for a FG.  47 yards.  A gimmie for Gostkowski.  He misses.  Bullet dodged.  Only 1:08 on the board.  Jets can kill the clock and despite how poorly the second quarter went still feel good that they're up by 7 against the Super Bowl Champs.  Great halftime awaits.  Rah rah speeches.  Lots of energy.  Go Jets.

Instead, it's 6 straight passes, 2 of which stop the clock, and 1 of which is an interception.  What?  6 straight passes?  Josh McCown?  Interception.  Belichick is playing with house money, goes for the home run pass, why not, bing bang boom, game is tied in under 26 seconds.  26 seconds.  Touchdown.

There was a time and a place to be aggressive, and 1:08 on the clock having just dodged a bullet and ready to put Tom in the locker room feeling despondent is not one of them.  Bowles lost the game right then and there.

SAR I

normally Bowles would be conservative there but they had a great chance to get in FG range.  The QB made a terrible mistake, you should be able to trust a 38 year old vet in that spot. 

[BigO]

On 10/16/2017 at 1:10 AM, RutgersJetFan said:

I don’t know what it is but the Jets haven’t had a coach that was able to grasp the concept of how important timeouts are since Parcells. Rex was dogsh*t with them too, and Mangini kept it together his first year before god knows what the hell happened. Not to mention Herm having to bring in a clock management specialist. 

What is so hard to grasp about not burning your TOs in a close game? Absolutely take the delay. 

Wait until Hack starts. He'll burn all 3 within 5 minutes of the game starting. 

[LIJetsFan]

On 10/17/2017 at 5:51 PM, Bugg said:

The   s l o w   pace of play calls and failure to hurry up late in games has been a calling  card of Bowles' Jets. One thing you would expect a real NFL head coach to have addressed in 3 years. Basically the guy or his OC call plays, but strategy is beyond them. 

Sorry but I disagree.  On the whole the only teams that are able to do this well and consistently are those with an above average QB.  This is something Bowles has lacked during his tenure.  When your QB is borderline overwhelmed, be it due to lack of ability or brain power, then the offense isn't going to be as crisp as you'd like.  Journeyman QB's get you journeymen O's.  You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  

All things considered, I like our offense this year.         

[BigO]

5 hours ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

I'm not against the idea of parting ways with Bowles, but please please please no more rookie head coaches.

They need to hire an offensive minded young head coach like the KC OC. Not sure if he's young but someone who can run an offense in this run and gun NFL era.  Ground and pound ain't cutting it anymore, old relic QB's ain't either. We need a gunslinger and the right coach under him.  We haven't had a decent QB since Vinny and The Jets. ?