The cigar store Indian has got to go!

[Bugg]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

So why wasnt Watson taken in the top ten? I guess a lot of GMs are stupid

Jets' stupidity is shared by other badly-run  NFL franchises. Got it. 

[Kleckineau]

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I think Cimini said yesterda that as soon a Shell went out with an injury,, the OL deteriorated.

Cool.  Team must have given up a sh*tload of sacks in the 2 games he missed. Now explain to me why I should trust my RT position to a guy who has missed 2 out of a possible 7 games?  

[Lupz27]

1 hour ago, gEYno said:

I think it's hard to infer anything from this.  Do you think he would get on the phone with Paxton Lynch and say, "I think it's ridiculous we took you.  You're probably going to fail."  Had we drafted Lynch, surely there'd be video which would make it look like it was the plan all along to do so, or at least that we were pretty damn happy we got him.

I think if the Jets took Lynch, and Bowles was not happy about it because he wanted Lee instead I don't think you see Bowles on the phone with Lynch, you would have seen, and heard Macc on the phone with Lynch IMO.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, Lupz27 said:

I think if the Jets took Lynch, and Bowles was not happy about it because he wanted Lee instead I don't think you see Bowles on the phone with Lynch, you would have seen, and heard Macc on the phone with Lynch IMO.

So, when we saw that Macc was on the phone with Hackenberg, we can assume that Bowles was upset about the pick?  And, now do we feel good about Bowles not wanting Hackenberg?

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Of course I have, but for example, the whole Paxton Lynch thing was reported by Schefter on Sirius and reported by posters here. There were numerous quotes from Bowles about Darron Lee and Adams and how much they will help our team.

I don't believe Bowles is making these decisions in a vacuum, but I do believe Woody has subscribed to the Parcels, let the chef pick the groceries. Which I actually mostly believe in too. I just think you need a good chef.

Unless your name is Belichick, I think having the coach pick players is a receipe for disaster and has failed over and over and over. This is Bowles roster. it is clear he has a bigger voice in the draft in the early rounds.

[ZachEY]

lol, @jetrider.  lol.

[Lupz27]

8 minutes ago, gEYno said:

So, when we saw that Macc was on the phone with Hackenberg, we can assume that Bowles was upset about the pick?  And, now do we feel good about Bowles not wanting Hackenberg?

Yes, and meh I don't think Bowles would have been happy with anyone at QB even if it was Prescott in the 2nd.

[ZachEY]

Just now, Lupz27 said:

Yes, and meh I don't think Bowles would have been happy with anyone at QB even if it was Prescott in the 2nd.

So, your theory is that Bowles places no value on the QB position whatsoever, and he's actually happy about going into a season with Josh McCown?

Even Rex Ryan, who wanted a ground and pound offense, recently was the star of a thread here when he complained he never had a QB like Winston.

I struggle with these arguments because there's a huge gap between, not succeeding as an NFL HC, and being completely clueless.  And thinking Bowles is completely clueless is, in fact, completely clueless.

[Pennington]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

Assigning blame is an interesting intellectual exercise, but nothing more than that. Both Maccagnan and Bowles look completely out of their depth. Neither should have a job come New Year’s Day.

This is the absolute truth. I want both of these idiots fired after the season. The team has worse talent than when they were hired and the defense continues to suck under this supposed defensive genius.

We need to hire John Dorsey and let him pick the coach. It would also be nice if the next coach was an offensive coach so we can finally end this string of only hiring defensive assistants. If it were up to me I would hire Brian Kelly from Notre Dame. 

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, NoBowles said:

If Watson continues to play at the level he is playing, regardless of whose choice it was, Bowles or Maccagnan to not draft him and take Adams, it will be the death nail for Maccangan. The media will kill him for it the entire season

 

Entirely possible, but I could see it going the other way too. One of the advantages of Maccagnan going incommunicado is that people can craft whatever narrative they want. Naturally, they're going to blame the cardboard cutout who they see blowing timeouts and giving what-me-worry pressers every week. It's not a big leap from Bowles is an idiot to Bowles is running the draft room. It may even be true. But given that Bowles is constantly visible and completely devoid of personality, I think it's far more likely that he gets bus-tossed than Maccagnan. 

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Entirely possible, but I could see it going the other way too. One of the advantages of Maccagnan going incommunicado is that people can craft whatever narrative they want. Naturally, they're going to blame the cardboard cutout who they see blowing timeouts and giving what-me-worry pressers every week. It's not a big leap from Bowles is an idiot to Bowles is running the draft room. It may even be true. But given that Bowles is constantly visible and completely devoid of personality, I think it's far more likely that he gets bus-tossed than Maccagnan. 

Well they've already done more than what most people expected from them. They've won 3 games and really have only been blown out once. Is it the coaching or the talent? The probable answer is that it's a combination of both. So both will get credit

[dbatesman]

Just now, dbatesman said:

Entirely possible, but I could see it going the other way too. One of the advantages of Maccagnan going incommunicado is that people can craft whatever narrative they want. Naturally, they're going to blame the cardboard cutout who they see blowing timeouts and giving what-me-worry pressers every week. It's not a big leap from Bowles is an idiot to Bowles is running the draft room. It may even be true. But given that Bowles is constantly visible and completely devoid of personality, I think it's far more likely that he gets bus-tossed than Maccagnan. 

The one mitigating factor here, btw, would be Bowles's ability to win the local media. He seems well-respected in league circles, and well-liked among national media people (he and Josina Anderson are apparently BFFs, which is weird, but w/e), so it may be that he charms the local guys and Maccagnan's silence fuels a bunch of absentee-landlord stories. Gotta say, I'm really excited for yet another Jets regime to use the media to turn the whole organization into a circular firing squad.

[Pennington]

1 hour ago, NoBowles said:

If Watson continues to play at the level he is playing, regardless of whose choice it was, Bowles or Maccagnan to not draft him and take Adams, it will be the death nail for Maccangan. The media will kill him for it the entire season

 

I havent heard the media say one word about it. I will admit that I didn't want to draft Watson but I think we should have at least traded down and picked up an extra 2018 first round pick but Maccagnan is gutless so he went with Adams who was not worth a top 10 pick.

[dbatesman]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Well they've already done more than what most people expected from them. They've won 3 games and really have only been blown out once. Is it the coaching or the talent? The probable answer is that it's a combination of both. So both will get credit

If we finish with 6+ wins, I have no doubt the Johnsons will hang a giant MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner off the conning tower of the Intrepid. I'm operating under the assumption that we lose something like 9 of our last 11, in which case the knives will be out.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, dbatesman said:

If we finish with 6+ wins, I have no doubt the Johnsons will hang a giant MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner off the conning tower of the Intrepid. I'm operating under the assumption that we lose something like 9 of our last 11, in which case the knives will be out.

Depends on how they lose. If they lack effort and the team quits, Bowles is gone. If they play hard and are in almost every game, Bowles probably stays

[Pennington]

1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said:

No no no. Get the QB last. Build a competitive team around him AND THEN draft a QB.

So we should be ready by say 2025 to finally draft a QB in the first round.

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, RESNewYork said:

Very well thought out post.

Are you guys serious? Look at the Bills without Rex ruining them, lol. They are much better without Rex & with this new coach & staff! Look at the LA Rams with McKay after ousting that loser Jeff Fisher! Bowles is Jeff Fisher! How long do you want to roll with this guys influence all over the team? Robby Anderson prancing around like he's Antonio Brown. 3rd worst in penalties (are we trying to emulate the pre Carr Raiders?). There is NO F*CKING way any of you can tell me that drafting Darron Lee (Buchanan), two safeties, etc. isn't the Todd Bowles influence, just like Rex (just get me my kind of guys), this REEKS of Todd Bowles. 

It would be interesting to know how Macc did in Houston? But I'm sure he was part of a team effort there. I'm not basing anything on just yesterday's game regarding Bowles, I think 2 years & 7 games into 2017 I've seen all I need to see & he is DEFINITELY not filling me with confidence he's the right guy to right this ship if we find a franchise QB. There are probably 10 guys out there who could coach this defense to the 28th ranking they stand at now. Bowles has NOTHING SPECIAL about him, NOTHING! Morton & Bates have actually put together an offense that has scored enough points to have this team at 5-2 if Bowles and Kacey could keep teams from going through them like a hot knife through butter in a critical time in the game.

[jetrider]

26 minutes ago, gEYno said:

So, when we saw that Macc was on the phone with Hackenberg, we can assume that Bowles was upset about the pick?  And, now do we feel good about Bowles not wanting Hackenberg?

Bowles, Gailey, and Maccagnan worked out Hackenberg at State College. It was a very elaborate plan. Are you disputing that or sweeping it under the rug? If Bowles really disliked Hackenberg he would've been removed from the Jets draft board. It's that simple. Jets are not structured like other teams that have a GM that chooses a HC and builds a roster for him. How can you follow this team and be so clueless about how/when Woody hired them both and set it up? Every Jets beat writer covered it. Woody explained it several times, so has Macc. Are you rewriting history to push your own anti-Macc agenda or what? That's what it sounds like. And if two safeties with our two top picks doesn't tell you Bowles is choosing the players then there is no hope for you.

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Are you guys serious? Look at the Bills without Rex ruining them, lol. They are much better without Rex & with this new coach & staff! Look at the LA Rams with McKay after ousting that loser Jeff Fisher! Bowles is Jeff Fisher! How long do you want to roll with this guys influence all over the team? Robby Anderson prancing around like he's Antonio Brown. 3rd worst in penalties (are we trying to emulate the pre Carr Raiders?). There is NO F*CKING way any of you can tell me that drafting Darron Lee (Buchanan), two safeties, etc. isn't the Todd Bowles influence, just like Rex (just get me my kind of guys), this REEKS of Todd Bowles. 

It would be interesting to know how Macc did in Houston? But I'm sure he was part of a team effort there. I'm not basing anything on just yesterday's game regarding Bowles, I think 2 years & 7 games into 2017 I've seen all I need to see & he is DEFINITELY not filling me with confidence he's the right guy to right this ship if we find a franchise QB. There are probably 10 guys out there who could coach this defense to the 28th ranking they stand at now. Bowles has NOTHING SPECIAL about him, NOTHING! Morton & Bates have actually put together an offense that has scored enough points to have this team at 5-2 if Bowles and Kacey could keep teams from going through them like a hot knife through butter in a critical time in the game.

If only anyone was arguing that Bowles is actually good.

[section314]

2 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Are you guys serious? Look at the Bills without Rex ruining them, lol. They are much better without Rex & with this new coach & staff! Look at the LA Rams with McKay after ousting that loser Jeff Fisher! Bowles is Jeff Fisher! How long do you want to roll with this guys influence all over the team? Robby Anderson prancing around like he's Antonio Brown. 3rd worst in penalties (are we trying to emulate the pre Carr Raiders?). There is NO F*CKING way any of you can tell me that drafting Darron Lee (Buchanan), two safeties, etc. isn't the Todd Bowles influence, just like Rex (just get me my kind of guys), this REEKS of Todd Bowles. 

It would be interesting to know how Macc did in Houston? But I'm sure he was part of a team effort there. I'm not basing anything on just yesterday's game regarding Bowles, I think 2 years & 7 games into 2017 I've seen all I need to see & he is DEFINITELY not filling me with confidence he's the right guy to right this ship if we find a franchise QB. There are probably 10 guys out there who could coach this defense to the 28th ranking they stand at now. Bowles has NOTHING SPECIAL about him, NOTHING! Morton & Bates have actually put together an offense that has scored enough points to have this team at 5-2 if Bowles and Kacey could keep teams from going through them like a hot knife through butter in a critical time in the game.

Good post. I actually feel that Morton will be the new HC, and Bates the OC if/when Bowles is shown the door.

[NoBowles]

19 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Entirely possible, but I could see it going the other way too. One of the advantages of Maccagnan going incommunicado is that people can craft whatever narrative they want. Naturally, they're going to blame the cardboard cutout who they see blowing timeouts and giving what-me-worry pressers every week. It's not a big leap from Bowles is an idiot to Bowles is running the draft room. It may even be true. But given that Bowles is constantly visible and completely devoid of personality, I think it's far more likely that he gets bus-tossed than Maccagnan. 

I'd be really surprised if Mac stays and Bowles goes. I think they either both stay, or they both go. My guess is they both stay, even though I think they are both way out of their league and should be gone, we are the Jets, and whatever the worst case scenario is, is usually what we do.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, NoBowles said:

I'd be really surprised if Mac stays and Bowles goes. I think they either both stay, or they both go. My guess is they both stay, even though I think they are both way out of their league and should be gone, we are the Jets, and whatever the worst case scenario is, is usually what we do.

And that logic is why Jets fans will never be content with anything. they are conditioned to think like this. Even when some things are good, they will think like this

[NoBowles]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

And that logic is why Jets fans will never be content with anything. they are conditioned to think like this. Even when some things are good, they will think like this

I don't think Bowles is a very good coach personally, and I don't think he can run a franchise. Mac seems to be more of a puppet than anything. Its hard to see the good in that personally, but I hope I am wrong, because my guess is short of us going 3-13, they are both staying. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, NoBowles said:

I don't think Bowles is a very good coach personally, and I don't think he can run a franchise. Mac seems to be more of a puppet than anything. Its hard to see the good in that personally, but I hope I am wrong, because my guess is short of us going 3-13, they are both staying. 

It comes down to how they play. If they play like they have the first 7 weeks, Bowles and MAcc are staying. They've been blown out of a game once

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, jetrider said:

Bowles, Gailey, and Maccagnan worked out Hackenberg at State College. It was a very elaborate plan. Are you disputing that or sweeping it under the rug? If Bowles really disliked Hackenberg he would've been removed from the Jets draft board. It's that simple. Jets are not structured like other teams that have a GM that chooses a HC and builds a roster for him. How can you follow this team and be so clueless about how/when Woody hired them both and set it up? Every Jets beat writer covered it. Woody explained it several times, so has Macc. Are you rewriting history to push your own anti-Macc agenda or what? That's what it sounds like. And if two safeties with our two top picks doesn't tell you Bowles is choosing the players then there is no hope for you.

Everything you believe is inference based on nothing.  The fact that they were hired as equals doesn't mean that Bowles is actually the GM, and does the GM's responsibilities any more than it means Mac calls the plays.  An organization can have two people at the same level who still do their own jobs.  It actually happens a lot.  Like, in most big companies.  The GM's job is to "buy the groceries" so to speak.  As I've already stated, even if he's buying what Bowles wants, he needs to step in and say, I'll get you this type of player, but not this specific player, because he's not the right value here.

Ultimately, you argument is predicated on the fact that Macc is irrelevant.  What is his job, to write whatever name Bowles suggests on a card?  If so, why defend a guy who literally serves no purpose on the team?

My response re: Bowles being on the phone was within a certain context.  Specifically, I was told that because Bowles was on the phone with Lee, he was happy, but if it were Lynch, he wouldn't be on the phone.  Then, I suggested that he wasn't on the phone for Hack.  So, does that tell us anything.  I literally said that you can't infer by who's talking on the phone anything about who necessarily made the final call.  Surely, it isn't my fault if you couldn't understand that, or were too lazy to actually read the entire exchange.

[MDL_JET]

6 minutes ago, section314 said:

Good post. I actually feel that Morton will be the new HC, and Bates the OC if/when Bowles is shown the door.

What makes you think Morton can be a good HC? Fans just think an unknown can be better because it's something different. Gets us nowhere.

 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, MDL_JET said:

What makes you think Morton can be a good HC? Fans just think an unknown can be better because it's something different. Gets us nowhere.

 

Jets are scoring about 20 points per game with Josh McCown at QB. That's a fair arguement

[MDL_JET]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Jets are scoring about 20 points per game with Josh McCown at QB. That's a fair arguement

And also making no adjustments and playing flat in the 2nd half of games. He needs work too.

[Lupz27]

34 minutes ago, gEYno said:

So, your theory is that Bowles places no value on the QB position whatsoever, and he's actually happy about going into a season with Josh McCown?

Even Rex Ryan, who wanted a ground and pound offense, recently was the star of a thread here when he complained he never had a QB like Winston.

I struggle with these arguments because there's a huge gap between, not succeeding as an NFL HC, and being completely clueless.  And thinking Bowles is completely clueless is, in fact, completely clueless.

I think Bowles wants a veteran QB, and does not want to have to deal with breaking in a rookie QB unless he is a prized stud, you know basically the Parcells way.

[ZachEY]

Just now, Lupz27 said:

I think Bowles wants a veteran QB, and does not want to have to deal with breaking in a rookie QB unless he is a prized stud, you know basically the Parcells way.

Ok - that's fair.

But, again, I'd just point to the fact that Bowles has been in the unfortunate position where the old, kind of crappy veteran, was the best option he's had.  It's wonderful to think Petty may not be trash, but we have zero evidence to support anything but that.

[Matt39]

Just now, Lupz27 said:

I think Bowles wants a veteran QB, and does not want to have to deal with breaking in a rookie QB unless he is a prized stud, you know basically the Parcells way.

Yeah this. Season ends, time passes, organization forgets how bad the offense was, falls in love with a defensive player who they deem the best player on the board. Do it all over again. 

[Beerfish]

15 minutes ago, gEYno said:

If only anyone was arguing that Bowles is actually good.

If he is not good then you should not be wasting time on him running and perhaps ruining the team.  You look for a good coach, if this guy isn't good then don't waste time.

[jetrider]

1 minute ago, NoBowles said:

I'd be really surprised if Mac stays and Bowles goes. I think they either both stay, or they both go. My guess is they both stay, even though I think they are both way out of their league and should be gone, we are the Jets, and whatever the worst case scenario is, is usually what we do.

I wouldn't. If Macc gave Bowles what he wanted and Bowles couldn't make it work, it's on Bowles not Macc.

Macc deserves a fair chance to either succeed or blow it with his own decisions.

Ideally, I'd love to see Bowles become a great HC and win a Jets SB.

His job isn't easy and there's gotta be a steep learning curve for a HC. Belichick and Carroll had growing pains early on. 

I'd blame Macc for, if anything, not forcing his vision more and trusting Bowles too much. 

[rangerous]

3 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Of course I have, but for example, the whole Paxton Lynch thing was reported by Schefter on Sirius and reported by posters here. There were numerous quotes from Bowles about Darron Lee and Adams and how much they will help our team.

I don't believe Bowles is making these decisions in a vacuum, but I do believe Woody has subscribed to the Parcels, let the chef pick the groceries. Which I actually mostly believe in too. I just think you need a good chef.

bowles biggest problem is that his defense is just not that good.  if the jet defense was shut down with all else being equal he'd be lauded as the second coming of lombardi