A Decade Later; How does Mangini sit with you?

[Beerfish]

That 2008 team played an easy schedule.  Check the league that year against the schedule

They beat Chad and the Fins, lost to NE without Brady.  Were absolutely crushed by the division winning 8-8 Chargers (rough west coast trip) then crushed the Cards who managed to lose the super bowl at 9-7 but had the same cross country excuse.  Beat the 4-11-1 Bengals, lost in OT to Jamarcus and the 5-11 Raiders..   Then we got hot against the Chiefs 2-14, Bills 7-9, Rams 2-14, on the road against the 11-5 Pats in OT still without Brady and finally a big win in Tennessee against the 13-3 Titans.  Apparently this is when Mr. Wrangler Jeans got hurt cause the wheels fell off.  Demolished at home against the 8-8 Broncos, lost to the 7-9 Niners, beat the Bills again and then finished out by scoring 3 against the 4-12 Seahawks and losing to Chad in the finale. 

They literally played the bottom of the barrel.  The Seahawks won 4 games, the Jets, the Niners and  2 against the Rams  The Niners won 7 games, but 2 were the Rams, 1 the Seahawks and 1 the Jets.  They started Shaun Hill.  This was shortly after the Singletary vs. Vernon Davis fiasco.  The Bengals won 4 games, but 3 were to end the season against teams that had been eliminated.  They started Fitzpatridk.  We had 4 quality wins.  Two were the Chad lead Dolphins a few weeks after his arrival and an OT game against Matt ******* Cassel.  Another was Arizona coming on the long east coast trip a week after they played in DC.  That team wasn't doing sh*t. 

Of all the 'we can't possibly lose to <insert team name here> book it!' that Seahawks game stands a head above, they were terrible AND they had something like 3 new olineman that week, they were signing guys off the street.

[nyjunc]

Peter Principle has applied to every coach between Parcells and Bowles (with the jury definitely still out on the latter).

Herm was a positional coach, no better. Mangini was a quality control guy suited to be kept in a film room without interacting with people.  Belichick boosted his career, much like he did for a lot of subpar assistants. Rex was a DC. None should have ever been HC's.

and yet we have had the most successful run in the history of the franchise w/ those guys as our HCs. 

[Savage69]

Was sorry to see Mangini go.  Think he was to young, and trying to emulate Lil Bill to much.

Favre sank his boat.  

Hold on he picked a QB in 2006 draft if he knew how to develop a QB Clemens could have stepped in in his 3rd year when Favre hurt his arm.. Another interesting note on Mangenius he went 10-6 in 2006 taking over for Herm who went 4-12 in 2005..With a 10-6 schedule in 2007 he went 4-12 then went 9-7 in 2008 when Farve,Faneca and Kris Jenkins came to the Jets.. He has the people skills of a Nazi..

[BowlesMovement]

Mangini completely sucks as a coach. Downright Kotitian. Chip Kelly is only thinking about keeping him because no defensive coach wants to work with him except a coach as desperate for work as Mangini. He's terrible. 

let me get this straight....

Mangini had two winning seasons out of three as a HC, and is Kotitian.....

Rex had two winning seasons out of 6, and he is a great coach???????

Does C A T really spell dog?

[PatsFanTX]

let me get this straight....

Mangini had two winning seasons out of three as a HC, and is Kotitian.....

Rex had two winning seasons out of 6, and he is a great coach???????

Does C A T really spell dog?

And Rex's only 2 winning seasons were basically the teams developed by Mangini.

[The Crusher]

Mangini completely sucks as a coach. Downright Kotitian. Chip Kelly is only thinking about keeping him because no defensive coach wants to work with him except a coach as desperate for work as Mangini. He's terrible. 

Come on Slats stop beating around the bush. Do you like him or not?

[TuscanyTile2]

I was reading the news of Kelly in SF flirting with keeping Mangini on staff...  Got me thinking, what do I think of Eric and his time here.

 

Was he in fact, a poor coach? What was his biggest problem? (aesthetics aside, I already know he was a boring steak at pressers)

Or was it just poor timing, or that he too young? He managed to cultivate a fairly responsible locker room, and the talent got better throughout his tenure. It wasn't like the team wasn't finding any success under his regime. I mean, sh*t -- if Favre hadn't ripped his bicep angling for dick pics, we were on pace to dominate in '08. 

 

I haven't read any responses to the OP but I think Mangini is going to be a good coach one day.  We just got him too early.

[slats]

let me get this straight....

Mangini had two winning seasons out of three as a HC, and is Kotitian.....

Rex had two winning seasons out of 6, and he is a great coach???????

Does C A T really spell dog?

He went 4-12 in his second season, and only won anything because of Brett Favre in his final year. Once Brett's arm fell off, the team went right back in the toilet. It's amazing how people forget how bad and boring the team was on both sides of the ball under Mangini - except when Favre told Schotty to shove his playbook up his ass and ran his own offense. 

Nothing to do with Rex, who I never referred to as a great coach, but Mangini was horrid. 

 

And Rex's only 2 winning seasons were basically the teams developed by Mangini.

This is flat out wrong. Frequently perpetuated, but wrong. Compare the rosters from Mangini's last year and Rex's first - starting at QB. There was a huge turnover. 

[TheMagicRat]

Eh. Mangini brought in some talent but was far too conservative on defense. I can't remember a coach that rushed 4 or less more frequently. 

While people reference Favre as a main cause for our collapse, IIRC our run defense significantly weaken as Jenkins became injured/fatigued. Mangini didn't have answer and our defense became very average. 

Still not a huge Rex fan, but he did an excellent job developing our DL. Pouha flourished when Rex got here and his aggressive nature made an above average defense into a great one. Too bad he couldn't keep it up. 

[BowlesMovement]

He went 4-12 in his second season, and only won anything because of Brett Favre in his final year. Once Brett's arm fell off, the team went right back in the toilet. It's amazing how people forget how bad and boring the team was on both sides of the ball under Mangini - except when Favre told Schotty to shove his playbook up his ass and ran his own offense. 

Nothing to do with Rex, who I never referred to as a great coach, but Mangini was horrid. 

You defended and praised Rex right up to the very end. I guess because he wasn't boring.

Rex and Mangini were both flawed coaches. Manginis flaws were fixable, Rex's are not. Since when is boring a criteria by which to judge a coach? Landry and BB are probably two of the most boring coaches of all time.

[#27TheDominator]

I honestly don't have much problem with Woody's ownership.  The major problem I had was the way they hired Idzik.  Bringing in business head hunters.  They got what they were looking for.  A decent book keeper.

 

This time around I hope they got it right.  Brought in foot ball people, to hire a foot ball scout.  What a novel idea.  I'm with 80 on this.  I'm cautiously optimistic 

Funny, I feel the exact opposite about Woody's problems.  The headhunter that they used to hire Idzik was Jed Hughes who coached both in college and the pros and placed plenty of people at major colleges and has worked fairly extensively with pro teams. 

My big problem with him has been his taking a fear of not throwing out the baby with the bathwater to the extreme. He forced Bradway and scouts on all of his GMs.  He forced Schottenheimer on Rex and Rex on Idzik.  It ****ed up the power structure and made it difficult to assign blame. I think some of it probably stemmed from a reliance on Parcells and Parcells people.  Parcells is a true Hall of Famer and excellent resource, but that has to have some diminishing returns as he was giving advice and recommendations to Dallas and the Dolphins. 

[CaliforniaJet]

He ratted out the cheats, so he is cool for that. Sucked as a coach. 

[T0mShane]

oh I agree that Favre didn't want to be there, but that 2008 team had a real chance to do something if he had stayed healthy.

Vegas had them as Super Bowl favorites when they were 8-3. 

[T0mShane]

My opinion on Mangini's tenure with us is that he was a great football mind. Knew X's and O's as well as most coaches in the league. He (correctly) placed a lot of emphasis on player intelligence, locker room chemistry and leadership. Unfortunately, he had terrible people skills, and that was his major downfall. 

I think this, too. He tried to be Belichick without having Belichick's cachet or Belichick's quarterback. He never should have taken the Cleveland job, as Hue Jackson is about to find out. 

[T0mShane]

Funny, I feel the exact opposite about Woody's problems.  The headhunter that they used to hire Idzik was Jed Hughes who coached both in college and the pros and placed plenty of people at major colleges and has worked fairly extensively with pro teams.  

My big problem with him has been his taking a fear of not throwing out the baby with the bathwater to the extreme. He forced Bradway and scouts on all of his GMs.  He forced Schottenheimer on Rex and Rex on Idzik.  It ****ed up the power structure and made it difficult to assign blame. I think some of it probably stemmed from a reliance on Parcells and Parcells people.  Parcells is a true Hall of Famer and excellent resource, but that has to have some diminishing returns as he was giving advice and recommendations to Dallas and the Dolphins.  

I think Woody's major problem is that he's not particularly bright and, as such, he gets abused by glad-handers like Rex, Tannenbaum, and Jeb looking to milk the Johnson family teet. He doesn't fire people like Tannenbaum and Bradway because he's afraid of being the last man standing with nobody to tell him what to do or say.

[Rexorcism]

On my back porch with a f-cken brewski

[Jet Nut]

 

And Rex's only 2 winning seasons were basically the teams developed by Mangini.

Other than sounding like a dis its completely wrong.

[Jet Nut]

Peter Principle has applied to every coach between Parcells and Bowles (with the jury definitely still out on the latter).

Herm was a positional coach, no better. Mangini was a quality control guy suited to be kept in a film room without interacting with people.  Belichick boosted his career, much like he did for a lot of subpar assistants. Rex was a DC. None should have ever been HC's.

Easy to say today but at the time of their hire each one was sound pick to be a HC

[papz187]

I don't have much opinion on him other than I think it was a good idea to move on from him as our HC big picture wise.

At the time of his firing though I didn't think he deserved it. He won 9-10 games his first season, disaster second season with 4 wins and an injured Pennington, and his 3rd year we collapsed after a great first 10-12 games to fall to 9-7, but I thought he deserved one more year and hopefully could talk Favre into one more year as well.

Sent from my SM-N915T using Tapatalk

[Jetsfan80]

Easy to say today but at the time of their hire each one was sound pick to be a HC

That's why the people who make those hires needs to have a lot more foresight than we do.  This thread is about looking back at Mangini in hindsight.  We bungled 3 straight coaching hires.  That's not a coincidence.  That's what bad organizations do. 

[nyjunc]

 

And Rex's only 2 winning seasons were basically the teams developed by Mangini.

you mean the teams Mangini couldn't win with? not even w/ a HOF QB.  a lot of those early Pats dynasty players were brought in by BP so does he get credit?

[Jet Nut]

That's why the people who make those hires needs to have a lot more foresight than we do.  This thread is about looking back at Mangini in hindsight.  We bungled 3 straight coaching hires.  That's not a coincidence.  That's what bad organizations do. 

Hiring HC is about as exact a science as high picks on QBs.  The picks weren't bungled, success as a coordinator or elsewhere is hardly an indicator of success as a HC.  It's just the way it is, they're two different jobs.  It's this way with every sport.  Guys fail when they make the jump.  Guys that have impressive resumes or guys that are highly recommended.  

Works both ways.  Arians was passed over for years.  He get a job after he ever thought he would and he's one of the better HCs in the NFL. 

[Jetsfan80]

Hiring HC is about as exact a science as high picks on QBs.  The picks weren't bungled, success as a coordinator or elsewhere is hardly an indicator of success as a HC.  It's just the way it is, they're two different jobs.  It's this way with every sport.  Guys fail

OK, but you have to admit some of the warning signs as well, that were evidently overlooked or deemed unimportant:

1.  Herm was hired as a favor to the league.  Paul Tagliabue had made it a priority to get more black coaches in head jobs.  That's not an unworthy goal, but it also doesn't mean you force a square peg into a round hole and hire a guy who isn't ready or a quality candidate. 

2.  Mangini was the most forgivable, because we didn't yet know that former Patriot assistants were terrible elsewhere.  In 2005, 1 year before we hired Mangini, Charlie Weis was hired by Notre Dame and Romeo Crennell by the Browns. 

3.  Rex was passed over for the Ravens job by John Harbaugh, who was a Special Teams coach for 9 years and a DC for just 1 year in Philly.  Granted, even quality organizations get things wrong from time to time, and for those first 2 years of Rex's tenure we certainly felt they had.  But in the end....they were of course 100 % correct in making that call. 

 

I'm not saying everyone is supposed to have perfect foresight on these decisions.  But bad organizations who make bad decisions several times in a row?  Yeah, I'm glad Woody seemed to have changed his ways when making the current hires.

[Jet Nut]

OK, but you have to admit some of the warning signs as well, that were evidently overlooked or deemed unimportant:

1.  Herm was hired as a favor to the league.  Paul Tagliabue had made it a priority to get more black coaches in head jobs.  That's not an unworthy goal, but it also doesn't mean you force a square peg into a round hole and hire a guy who isn't ready or a quality candidate. 

2.  Mangini was the most forgivable, because we didn't yet know that former Patriot assistants were terrible elsewhere.  In 2005, 1 year before we hired Mangini, Charlie Weis was hired by Notre Dame and Romeo Crennell by the Browns. 

3.  Rex was passed over for the Ravens job by John Harbaugh, who was a Special Teams coach for 9 years and a DC for just 1 year in Philly.  Granted, even quality organizations get things wrong from time to time, and for those first 2 years of Rex's tenure we certainly felt they had.  But in the end....they were of course 100 % correct in making that call. 

 

I'm not saying everyone is supposed to have perfect foresight on these decisions.  But bad organizations who make bad decisions several times in a row?  Yeah, I'm glad Woody seemed to have changed his ways when making the current hires.

1. look we don't know that Herm was forced on us.  Seriously doubt that the Jets wanted some white guy and the league told them NO, hire a black guy.  They've wanted to increase the number of minority hires, agree, but forced him on us?  Add in he was highly regarded as an assistant everywhere he coached?  Plus admit, who wasn't impressed and fired up when he was initially hired. He ran out on us but he wasn't a god awful pick to be HC.

3. Hate this line of reasoning for lots of reasons.  For one you're saying we'll pick a HC based on what another team thinks.  Never mind that they picked one of the better HCs.  Doesn't mean the guy they passed over can't be good.  If you Shula and Parcells as assistants and passed on Parcells for Shila Parcells would be a bad hire?  

We've missed the ultimate goal with all 3 but doesn't make them stupid hires.  

[nyjunc]

OK, but you have to admit some of the warning signs as well, that were evidently overlooked or deemed unimportant:

1.  Herm was hired as a favor to the league.  Paul Tagliabue had made it a priority to get more black coaches in head jobs.  That's not an unworthy goal, but it also doesn't mean you force a square peg into a round hole and hire a guy who isn't ready or a quality candidate. 

2.  Mangini was the most forgivable, because we didn't yet know that former Patriot assistants were terrible elsewhere.  In 2005, 1 year before we hired Mangini, Charlie Weis was hired by Notre Dame and Romeo Crennell by the Browns. 

3.  Rex was passed over for the Ravens job by John Harbaugh, who was a Special Teams coach for 9 years and a DC for just 1 year in Philly.  Granted, even quality organizations get things wrong from time to time, and for those first 2 years of Rex's tenure we certainly felt they had.  But in the end....they were of course 100 % correct in making that call. 

 

I'm not saying everyone is supposed to have perfect foresight on these decisions.  But bad organizations who make bad decisions several times in a row?  Yeah, I'm glad Woody seemed to have changed his ways when making the current hires.

Herm was hired as a favor to the league come on.

 

if he was we should thank the league as he did a good job for us but please tell me all the other great candidates that were up for the job that you wanted instead of herm?

Rex would have won Super Bowls in Baltimore as in multiple, Harbaugh is a great coach but they would have been as good, if not better, w/ rex.

 

so the least successful Jet coaches is ok in your book and you bash the 2 much more successful coaches?  I just don't get people sometimes.

[Savage69]

Was sorry to see Mangini go.  Think he was to young, and trying to emulate Lil Bill to much.

Favre sank his boat.  

 

[JustInFudge]

FWIW - Revis said Schiano was worse than Mangini which is saying something because Mangini was awful. 

 

[Beerfish]

Never use a company called Korn Ferry for anything.

[Klecko73isGod]

Thanks for reminding me it's been 10 years since Mangini became head coach, the Jets still haven't won dick and the Pats are a game away from Brady going for his fifth. 

Dick. 

[#27TheDominator]

Another problem with hiring these coaches is that you end up dumping quality players because you change systems.  It's one thing to go from a disciplinarian to a player's coach and vice versa, but we went from Parcells taking over and dumping Hugh Douglas - one of our few assets - because he didn't fit the 3-4 to Herm running the cover-who and dumping our high priced CBs for big face the QB types, letting a highly regarded young OT go for the privilege.  Then on the line he tried to fatten Sean Ellis into Warren Sapp Jr instead of letting him play DE in the 4-3.  Then we got Mangini who went back to the 3-4 and forced the butcher block with butter knives to play NT while standing up Bryan Thomas.  When you start from the bottom a gut job is fine, but it made sense to grab another 3-4 guy off Mangini's 9-7 last season. Bowles seems adaptable, so who knows what we will end up with.

[Savage69]

Herm was hired as a favor to the league come on.

 

if he was we should thank the league as he did a good job for us but please tell me all the other great candidates that were up for the job that you wanted instead of herm?

Rex would have won Super Bowls in Baltimore as in multiple, Harbaugh is a great coach but they would have been as good, if not better, w/ rex.

 

so the least successful Jet coaches is ok in your book and you bash the 2 much more successful coaches?  I just don't get people sometimes.

80 isn't wrong after Groh left Johnny Cochran threatened a law suit if more minority people weren't hired in higher positions like HC or GM.. He said the League office is in NY yet the Giants or Jets never had a minority in those positions.. So Hermie was the first HC hired from the NFL minority coaching program.. Tags didn't want him to go to a bad team rebuilding so the Jets were a great spot.. Plus Bradway who was a former scout with the Giants when the Tuna was the HC got the Tuna's recommendation for GM when he left after the 2000 season and BB filed his resignation as Jet HC on a cocktail napkin the year before..

[Freemanm]

Res ipsa loquitur. The guy went on to be a disaster in Cleveland and hasn't been remotely considered for another HC job since. Pretty sure we made the right call on that one. 

Cleveland has been a disaster for every coach so far... one has to wonder that maybe it isn't the head coaches... As far as Mangini goes, he was a good game planner but treated players like children, not men. 

[Maxman]

The west coast trips that year all went to sh*t.

And now he is coaching on the west coast. Ironic.  

[nyjunc]

80 isn't wrong after Groh left Johnny Cochran threatened a law suit if more minority people weren't hired in higher positions like HC or GM.. He said the League office is in NY yet the Giants or Jets never had a minority in those positions.. So Hermie was the first HC hired from the NFL minority coaching program.. Tags didn't want him to go to a bad team rebuilding so the Jets were a great spot.. Plus Bradway who was a former scout with the Giants when the Tuna was the HC got the Tuna's recommendation for GM when he left after the 2000 season and BB filed his resignation as Jet HC on a cocktail napkin the year before..

stop it, that's message board legend.  none of that is true in any way about herm.

[nyjets782]

I still think he has the ability to be a good HC, his biggest problem was doing a bad imitation of bill Belichick.  if he was just himself instead of trying to be BB he would have succeeded as a HC.

once again w/ Favre, the injury was an excuse. we were going nowhere whether he was healthy or banged up.  he never wanted to be here and played like it most of the year.

I seriously doubt that after the Jets handily beat unbeaten Tennessee in Tennessee to go to 8-2 that you felt in that moment that we were going nowhere.  No honest fan would make that statement.