Cowboys trade?

[Sperm Edwards]

29 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

It's interesting how some fans said Cro was overpaid as was Harris,Revis,Skrine etc Yet with 50 million he couldn't sign Mo?? Mo isn't looking for a Watt sized contract like Sperm has said he wants more.. He hasn't signed his tender and it's a good bet come camp he won't be there, either he'll be gone via trade or hold out but I wouldn't count your first round picks just yet.. If Mac gets a top 5 pick for Mo he should get the top GM of the century award..

Mac wouldn't be getting a top 5 pick for Mo if this deal went down as this proposed. We'd also be coughing up our own #20 pick in the move-up. He'd be getting a top 20 pick (by value), which is still worthy of an award given the glaring lack of interest league-wide. These salaries have gotten so high, with the rookie wage scale keeping first rounders so low, that teams really hate trading 1st round picks for veterans (particularly for non-QB veterans who want starting QB money). I will be shocked (very happily shocked) if we get it, and would still be gushing over getting any 2nd rounder and nothing more.

On the other hand, if we end up keeping him for 1 more season and miss the playoffs again (which seems likely), Mac looks really, really bad here. Mathematically, Mac's line in the sand (of not looking really bad) is technically a mid-late 4th round pick, because that's what we would have gotten by simply not tagging him in the first place (a 3rd round comp pick in 2017). If he gets a 2016 3rd round pick, it won't be popular - and he'll get a lot of criticism - but it won't be from me. I'll view it as getting something for nothing. (Not that Mo = nothing, but he's a player who Mac likely would have just let go to FA if it was 100% known Mo had below mid-round trade value).

[chirorob]

7 minutes ago, EM31 said:

My mistake.  Got it.  So no reason for anyone to spill the beans about any talks taking place.

Plus Curtis Martin style poisoned pill contracts are no longer permitted.

If he signs with someone else, the comp is 2 first rounders.

[Sperm Edwards]

52 minutes ago, EM31 said:

My mistake.  Got it.  So no reason for anyone to spill the beans about any talks taking place.

Plus Curtis Martin style poisoned pill contracts are no longer permitted.

Yep. And those current poison pill rules are good ones. They were never outlawed in the first place (30-50 years ago) because it was presumed that teams would behave honorably. But like the Martin contract, or other poison pills ($50M bonus for playing more than 5 games in the state of ____ in any 1 season). That stuff was always sleazy garbage, even when we were the ones doing it.

[Savage69]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Mac wouldn't be getting a top 5 pick for Mo if this deal went down as this proposed. We'd also be coughing up our own #20 pick in the move-up. He'd be getting a top 20 pick (by value), which is still worthy of an award given the glaring lack of interest league-wide. These salaries have gotten so high, with the rookie wage scale keeping first rounders so low, that teams really hate trading 1st round picks for veterans (particularly for non-QB veterans who want starting QB money). I will be shocked (very happily shocked) if we get it, and would still be gushing over getting any 2nd rounder and nothing more.

On the other hand, if we end up keeping him for 1 more season and miss the playoffs again (which seems likely), Mac looks really, really bad here. Mathematically, Mac's line in the sand (of not looking really bad) is technically a mid-late 4th round pick, because that's what we would have gotten by simply not tagging him in the first place (a 3rd round comp pick in 2017). If he gets a 3rd round pick, it won't be popular - and he'll get a lot of criticism - but it won't be from me. I'll view it as getting something for nothing. (Not that Mo = nothing, but he's a player who Mac likely would have just let go to FA if it was 100% known Mo had below mid-round trade value).

Me either at this point I'll take what we can get..

[Savage69]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yep. And those current poison pill rules are good ones. They were never outlawed in the first place because it was presumed that teams would behave honorably. But like the Martin contract, or other poison pills ($50M bonus for playing more than 5 games in the state of ____ in any 1 season). That stuff was always sleazy garbage, even when we were the ones doing it.

The Martin contract let him void the deal after 1 year that made it impossible for the Pats to match.. I wish he had a provision that let him void his contract and follow the Tuna when he went to Dallas..

[EM31]

1 minute ago, Savage69 said:

The Martin contract let him void the deal after 1 year that made it impossible for the Pats to match.. I wish he had a provision that let him void his contract and follow the Tuna when he went to Dallas..

Yeah but he turned out to be a first ballot hall of fame lock.

 

Or some such

[nyjets782]

29 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I don't think Mac could get a top 5 for Mo even though Mo is worth it. But one guy who should have gotten something other than being fired for a great trade was Idzik and the compensation he received for Revis. A deal like that wasn't easy to pull off esp for an injured player. And then he drafted Sheldon arguably the best player in that draft. 

I don't think anyone argues that he got a decent return for Revis.  However, his a55 absolutely should have been fired for laying waste to just about everything else he touched in his miserable tenure.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, chirorob said:

If he signs with someone else, the comp is 2 first rounders.

Technically yes, but only if we consider it unwelcome competition. Since we don't even have a real offer on the table for Mo, we'd welcome anything and would readily agree to a LOT less than a pair of #1s.

That only happens when it's a player we want to retain, at top dollar (he's "the franchise" type money), and someone else is willing to pay even more than that. It's really, really unusual. Considering the gargantuan salaries involved, I couldn't see that happening ever again for a non-QB, unless it was a still-young top-2 type NFL player in his prime, like JJ Watt or Von Miller.

Other reason it doesn't happen anymore - even for QBs - is if the team really is unwilling to part with the player, they just use the exclusive-franchise tag, meaning the player can't even negotiate with anyone but the original team. Von Miller has that tag right now, Drew Brees did before his last extension, etc.

[shuler82]

Whether or not this move would end up working out, it's a no brainer to make. Unless the Jets are tanking 2016, Mo is their ammo to get in position to draft a top QB prospect.. and you'd have to believe that Mac and Bowles desperately want to find a QB to build around.  I'd think if this were to go down, the Jets would wait to make sure their QB was there at #4. I can't see them having enough ammo to trade up to 4, and then turn around and move up to 1. 

[jett]

Not in a million years will this happen people 

[Rangers9]

12 minutes ago, nyjets782 said:

I don't think anyone argues that he got a decent return for Revis.  However, his a55 absolutely should have been fired for laying waste to just about everything else he touched in his miserable tenure.

His drafts weren't that bad. In 2014 he had extra comp picks that were higher round selections (and couldn't be traded) and didn't make good selections. Although some of his DB choices have been injured and the jury's not out on them yet. They are in fact still on the roster. And Calvin Pryor is a good player who had a poor rookie season. At wide receiver he was ripped for not selecting guys like Jordan Matthews but he did draft a good receiver in Quincy in the 6th round. At the time of the drafts he was given C+s and B-s by experts. He didn't do a good job I agree and Mac is probably a better GM than he would have ever been. He was definitely over his head in the NYC market. But I felt he should have gotten at least 3 seasons. And his first year the team was 8-8. 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Me either at this point I'll take what we can get..

Yeah right now he has to take anything (on paper), but to avoid shame it really has to be more than he would have gotten by just not tagging him in the first place. Also it can't be just a hair more than the value of a late-90s pick next season either, because if we didn't tag Mo it would have freed up $16M more during the whole month of March.

I don't know how much it hampered us in reality. If there was a FA we just had to have, but couldn't afford right at that moment, we really could have just removed the tag at that time (like if we'd signed Olivier Vernon).

There may be a way to rescind it even if he signs it, because with Mo's broken leg we can put him through a physical which he might fail. Since Mo's surely been talking to other teams this whole time, without a contract being offered, one would think Mo would be crazy to risk the $16M guaranteed for this season at this point (we could remove the tag, but it would be after so much of the big money dried up he may still not get the contract he wanted). The day he signs it we have the right to put him through a physical. If he fails it, we can still rescind the tag.

I think that's how it works.

[nyjets782]

Just now, Rangers9 said:

His drafts weren't that bad. In 2014 he had extra comp picks that were higher round selections (and couldn't be traded) and didn't make good selections. Although some of his DB choices have been injured and the jury's not out on them yet. They are in fact still on the roster. And Calvin Pryor is a good player who had a poor rookie season. At wide receiver he was ripped got not selecting guys like Jordan Matthews but he did draft a good receiver in Quincy in the 6th round. At the time of the drafts he was given C+s and B-s by experts. He didn't do a good job I agree and Mac is probably a better GM than he would have ever been. He was definitely over his head in the NYC market. But I felt he should have gotten at least 3 seasons. And his first year the team was 8-8. 

Stop, just stop.  If his drafts weren't that bad he wouldn't be pushing pencils in Jacksonville right now.  Milliner is only on the roster because it saves them zero to cut him.  He had 12 freaking draft picks in 2014 and came away with an above-average safety and Dozier, Enunwa and Reilly who are spare parts.  Enunwa at this stage of his career is not a "good" receiver.  He has some physical tools but has yet to show he can catch the ball.  He had 3 4th round picks (1 he cut in week 3! and the other 2 have never been on an NFL field!)  His subjective grades at the time of the draft are useless as everyone knows it takes a few years to grade a draft.  He was so bad that people speculated he was doing it on purpose to sabotage Rex!

[Joe Jets fan]

28 minutes ago, chirorob said:

If he signs with someone else, the comp is 2 first rounders.

Sorry but this is not true.

Mo was assigned an exclusive tag, which means the only team he can talk to is the JETS.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2016/2/16/10956324/nfl-free-agency-2016-franchise-tag-definition-value-candidates

[Lego My Lageman]

MY BODY IS READY!

[Rangers9]

3 minutes ago, nyjets782 said:

Stop, just stop.  If his drafts weren't that bad he wouldn't be pushing pencils in Jacksonville right now.  Milliner is only on the roster because it saves them zero to cut him.  He had 12 freaking draft picks in 2014 and came away with an above-average safety and Dozier, Enunwa and Reilly who are spare parts.  Enunwa at this stage of his career is not a "good" receiver.  He has some physical tools but has yet to show he can catch the ball.  He had 3 4th round picks (1 he cut in week 3! and the other 2 have never been on an NFL field!)  His subjective grades at the time of the draft are useless as everyone knows it takes a few years to grade a draft.  He was so bad that people speculated he was doing it on purpose to sabotage Rex!

It does take 3 years to judge a draft and he was fired after two seasons. So how is that fair. And the Wrs he passed on in the 3rd and 4th rounds aren't big stars and I think one guy just got a one year suspension. I'll take Quincy over him. And Milliner has been injured. He isn't a bust. It's easy to look at a draft after the fact and to say "why didn't you take this guy." When every other team in the league including the team drafting him passed over him. It's called second guessing. 

[Savage69]

5 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said:

Sorry but this is not true.

Mo was assigned an exclusive tag, which means the only team he can talk to is the JETS.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2016/2/16/10956324/nfl-free-agency-2016-franchise-tag-definition-value-candidates

That doesn't say which tag he has but this one does.. http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2016/02/jets_will_indeed_use_franchise_tag_on_mo_wilkerson.html

Wilkerson received the non-exclusive tag, so he can still negotiate with other teams, but the Jets would retain the right to match whatever offer he gets. If Wilkerson signs elsewhere, the Jets would get two first-round draft picks from that organization — a high price to pay for Wilkerson's services. 

[nyjets782]

9 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

It does take 3 years to judge a draft and he was fired after two seasons. So how is that fair. And the Wrs he passed on in the 3rd and 4th rounds aren't big stars and I think one guy just got a one year suspension. I'll take Quincy over him. And Milliner has been injured. He isn't a bust. It's easy to look at a draft after the fact and to say "why didn't you take this guy." When every other team in the league including the team drafting him passed over him. It's called second guessing. 

67% of the players he drafted 2 years ago aren't even on the freaking team!  What are you waiting for to judge?  Milliner has been an enormous bust thus far.  He had five surgeries in college, it wasn't like he all of a sudden became an injury problem.  Jordan Matthews, Jarvis Landry, Donte Moncrief, Allen Robinson, John Brown all taken in the 2-3rd rounds.  I'll even take Davante Adams, Marqise Lee and Martavis Bryant because Jalen Saunders and Shaq Evans are out of the NFL altogether.  If this is acceptable, who actually could ever do a bad job?

[Sperm Edwards]

A top 10 pick who hasn't been one full-season starter yet, entering year 4, is a busted draft pick. That doesn't mean his career is destined to be more of the same, but there is a certain expectation of instant-starter worthiness when one takes a player 9th in the country. Certainly by year 3. He's not even a lock to be the starter in year 4 (far from it).

He was perceived to have been a great pick (no one would have been surprised if he was a top 4 selection, so getting him at a position of great need at #9 was easy to make). He was reportedly the team's #3 player and the first 2 were off the board.

In hindsight it was a monumentally crappy top 10 class. Milliner wasn't the only one. 

[Savage69]

49 minutes ago, EM31 said:

Yeah but he turned out to be a first ballot hall of fame lock.

 

Or some such

Yep a first ballot lock that wasn't..

[Irish Jet]

Milliner to this point has been the definition of a bust. Injuries were the red flag with him anyways.

[JetPotato]

2 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

that's the rub.  i think this would have to be done draft day, and the cowboys would have to understand that.  it would be a win for both teams.  then the jets could let fitz go elsewhere and address the OT and olb spots and all of a sudden you have a completely new outlook on the franchise.

tanny make it happen!

the rub would be what I do to myself if this happens

[Bergen Jet]

It would take a lot more than our 1st and Wilk to get to 4.  Adding our first from next year probably doesn't do it either.

What do you think a realistic trade for 4 would be, if Dallas is willing to deal?

[The Engineer]

6 minutes ago, Bergen Jet said:

It would take a lot more than our 1st and Wilk to get to 4.  Adding our first from next year probably doesn't do it either.

What do you think a realistic trade for 4 would be, if Dallas is willing to deal?

No it wouldn't. MO is a young and elite player, also a big position of need for DAL. Possibly a conditional next years 3/4. Is DF Buckner better than MO? Cause thats DAL's option. So from their perspective, you get MO, still keep a mid first, get a conditional next year on top of it. Sure you have to squeeze salaries around, but a team that wants to will.

[FTL Jet Fan]

I would be suprised if this happens. Stuff like this never pans out when discussed a month before the draft.  Hopefully I am wrong.

[ChuckkieB]

Sign me up for this, provided the Jets grab a QB with the pick.

[BigRy56]

Pull that trigger! Wentz looks like he could be a player

[CotcheryifyouCan]

i highly doubt this happens or is even a discussion between the two teams, but if for some reason it does i think you have to do this trade. Mo is one of my favorite players but if we can get a top qb (wentz or goff) we have to pull the trigger

[Bergen Jet]

33 minutes ago, The Engineer said:

No it wouldn't. MO is a young and elite player, also a big position of need for DAL. Possibly a conditional next years 3/4. Is DF Buckner better than MO? Cause thats DAL's option. So from their perspective, you get MO, still keep a mid first, get a conditional next year on top of it. Sure you have to squeeze salaries around, but a team that wants to will.

What teams are lining up to give us the equivalent of the 17th pick in the draft or close to it for a very good DL lineman who wants to get paid?  Factor in our cap situation, the fact that the d-line is still relatively strong for us, and Mo's desire to get elite level compensation and I think you need a lot more than what you are suggesting to jump all the way to 4.  It isn't like we have a plethora of options regarding what we could do with Mo.

[jett]

Let's switch the script. If we had the 4th overall pick would anyone in their right minds trade this pick for the 20th and Wilk? No? Didn't think so. So what makes anyone think the Cowboys would do this. My God the draft can't come quick enough to end these rumors 

[shuler82]

7 minutes ago, jett said:

Let's switch the script. If we had the 4th overall pick would anyone in their right minds trade this pick for the 20th and Wilk? No? Didn't think so. So what makes anyone think the Cowboys would do this. My God the draft can't come quick enough to end these rumors 

why not?

If they're looking to draft a defensive player anyway, why not take a top 5 DL plus still get a first round pick? Yeah, I get that he's not a speed rusher or 20 sack a season type of player, but Wilk is what you'd hope your #4 pick will one day become. 

 

 

[chirorob]

1 hour ago, Savage69 said:

That doesn't say which tag he has but this one does.. http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2016/02/jets_will_indeed_use_franchise_tag_on_mo_wilkerson.html

Wilkerson received the non-exclusive tag, so he can still negotiate with other teams, but the Jets would retain the right to match whatever offer he gets. If Wilkerson signs elsewhere, the Jets would get two first-round draft picks from that organization — a high price to pay for Wilkerson's services. 

Yeah!!!  Way to make me look less dumb!

[Rangers9]

The problem with this deal for the Cowboys is having to pay Wilk and give him a huge contract. Vs selecting at overall 4 and only having to pay out on a rookie deal. Some teams are willing to go in that direction and pay out on this kind of a deal. Others go in a different direction. 

[Savage69]

4 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

The problem with this deal for the Cowboys is having to pay Wilk and give him a huge contract. Vs selecting at overall 4 and only having to pay out on a rookie deal. Some teams are willing to go in that direction and pay out on this kind of a deal. Others go in a different direction. 

Watch Mo take a cheaper deal then he would have done for the Jets..LOL

[Joe Jets fan]

1 hour ago, Savage69 said:

That doesn't say which tag he has but this one does.. http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2016/02/jets_will_indeed_use_franchise_tag_on_mo_wilkerson.html

Wilkerson received the non-exclusive tag, so he can still negotiate with other teams, but the Jets would retain the right to match whatever offer he gets. If Wilkerson signs elsewhere, the Jets would get two first-round draft picks from that organization — a high price to pay for Wilkerson's services. 

Damn it, I thought he was given an exclusive tag.    win some you lose some.