ZachEY Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 43 minutes ago, nyjunc said: he didn't force anything, he wanted what he was worth. we didn't have to trade him and if Tannenbaum is still around I don't believe we do trade him. He was a million times better than Champ and Woodson, those 2 weren't half the cover corners Revis was. Ultimately we have so few great players in our history and in a rare instance we have a drafted one yet we want to bash him. LT was literally a bad human being, as bad as you can be and is beloved b/c of his greatness. Revis isn't LT but he's the closest we have. No, he didn't force it. But, he made trading him the correct move, as he was headed for his 3rd hold-out. Yes, he wanted what he believed he was worth, but he also refused to play for what he contractually signed to play for, and it wasn't the first time. He was not a million times better than those players, and that's not even the point I'm making. I'm saying Revis may have had better a better season or seasons than those guys had, but those guys had better careers. You're right, we have had so few great players in our history. And, when we finally found one, it'd be hard to describe him as anything but the (if not one of the) biggest "me-first" player that the NFL has ever seen. When we finally found one, he held out before his rookie year, once again, and was headed for his third hold-out before we traded him rather than pay him another contract that he wouldn't honor. When we finally found one, he won a championship with another team. When we finally found one, he returned and played well below expectations and with minimal effort. Wayne Chrebet doesn't have 1/10th of Revis's talent, but he's universally beloved an appreciated because he was a good player, a Jet through-and-through, played hurt and with a ton of heart. Revis brought none of that to the Jets. So, yes, we can respect Revis's great seasons, and even appreciate them. But, as a whole, maybe an all-time great talent, but by no means an all-time great Jet. In 20 years, Revis won't even be remembered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 17 minutes ago, gEYno said: This is an old argument, but a really good one, when we were debating whether revis should be traded or not. Taking away 1 WR when you can successfully run 4 WR sets and have big TEs with great hands is a luxury that is not nearly as beneficial as it seems. Old argument perhaps, but to me it's the entire story. He really didn't do much here. Any time someone needs to remind me of how "great Darrelle Revis is because he shuts down the #1 receiver", like Boomer Esiason used to do on FAN, I say to myself "if he were so great it would be obvious". I think I'm right. SAR I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 26 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: How could he total the stats if he was a poor athlete? The stats disprove you Whoa hoist by my own petard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 15 minutes ago, Larz said: in the end its better to spread the money around the secondary In 2009, Rex was successful in designing a defense that forced the QB to throw Revis's way. Enough tape of the exotic blintzes and it stopped working, and Revis's impact was neutralized. QB and pass rushers are the only guys worth that kind of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 19 minutes ago, detectivekimble said: Right. Changing how a team plays offense is being an impact player. In that 2010 playoff game against the Bengals, Carson Palmer realized he was ****ed when he couldn't throw the ball to Chad Johnson. Holding the Colts to 16 points in Lucas Oil Stadium of all places was mostly because of Revis. Peyton Manning wouldn't even look at Reggie Wayne. The guy was voted the best defensive player in the NFL in 2012 by fellow players. Meanwhile, Mark Sanchez was busy running into Brandon Moore's ass. When things broke right for our LB's and other CB's Revis was on the top of his game, yes, he made a good impact. Those times were far and few between. Regarding Mark Sanchez, he was directly responsible for creating 2 or 3 touchdowns a game because he was a playmaker. Darrelle Revis didn't prevent 2 or 3 touchdowns because he was a spectator. Quarterbacks didn't throw at him, those WR's weren't going to score anyway. And as a result of Revis they gameplanned during the week and found ways to exploit the other side of the field, most times making Revis a non-issue both ways. No plays on his side, too many plays on the other side. SAR I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 I knew this thread was this long for a reason. I'm not surprised though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 21 minutes ago, Larz said: in the end its better to spread the money around the secondary Bingo. Better to have 2 CB's that are 75% Darrelle Revis than 1 CB who is 100% Darrelle Revis and the other 25%. SAR I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saul Goodman Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 This is total bullsh*t. Revis has never once had an off the field incident, and we are supposed to believe that just he decided to attack a group of guys in their early 20's?? Fake news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 14 minutes ago, detectivekimble said: Here's making something happen: If you are saying Darrelle Revis had a bigger impact on the 2009 and 2010 teams because of his lack of playmaking than Mark Sanchez did because of his playmaking you need your head examined. The object is to score points. Preventing them only goes so far. Just ask Rex Ryan. SAR I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 9 minutes ago, SAR I said: That's where you're wrong and make my point: Darrelle Revis didn't take away the opponents best player, he took away their best receiver. Plenty of teams we faced had quarterbacks as their best player or running backs as their best player, and Darrelle Revis didn't prevent them from having big days. And when your #2 and #3 and TE are having field days against the Jets secondary, did it even matter that your #1 was blanketed? I agree that Darrelle Revis was a strong component on some decent Jets teams, but if you could go back in time and trade him for Ray Lewis or Rod Woodson you wouldn't? SAR I Forget Ray Lewis, different position. Look at Woodson's stats for the 11 years he played corner vs. Revis'. Woodson has almost double the INT's and TD's. I guess the other PItt corners were so good that teams threw at Woodson, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 14 minutes ago, nyjunc said: we don't have the brightest football fans but stevie wonder could see the impact Revis had on a weekly basis. it was a joy to watch this man play at his peak. Lightly running around doing nothing while his counterpart on the other side of the field is getting torched? What a great performer. There are joggers running ovals at Harborfields High School right now that would be more interesting to pay attention to. SAR I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, SAR I said: That's where you're wrong and make my point: Darrelle Revis didn't take away the opponents best player, he took away their best receiver. Plenty of teams we faced had quarterbacks as their best player or running backs as their best player, and Darrelle Revis didn't prevent them from having big days. And when your #2 and #3 and TE are having field days against the Jets secondary, did it even matter that your #1 was blanketed? I agree that Darrelle Revis was a strong component on some decent Jets teams, but if you could go back in time and trade him for Ray Lewis or Rod Woodson you wouldn't? SAR I which was usually their best player. Let's look at 2009: at Houston- their best player was Andre Johnson. 4 recs 35 yds, we shut out their O. for the other 15 games Johnson averaged 6.5 recs a game and 102 yds a game vs. randy Moss twice: 4-24 and 5-34. other 14 games averaged 5.3 and 86 yds(he had 58 yds TOTAL in the 2 games) Marques Colston: 2-33, averaged 4.5 and 69 yds vs. TO twice: 3-13 and 3-3. 3.3 for 53 yds(had 16 total in the 2 games) Steve Smith: 1-5, averaged 4.6 and 70 yds Roddy White: 4-33, averaged 5.4 and 75 yds reggie wayne twice: 3-33 in reg season, 3-55 in playoffs. averaged 6.5 recs and 79 yds in other games including playoffs Chad Johnson playoffs: 2 rec, 28 yds. averaged 4.8 recs, 69.8 yds he had a bunch of picks too including against Moss, TO, Johnson in the playoffs. his INT in SD was a game changer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 17 minutes ago, gEYno said: No, he didn't force it. But, he made trading him the correct move, as he was headed for his 3rd contract. Yes, he wanted what he believed he was worth, but he also refused to play for what he contractually signed to play for, and it wasn't the first time. He was not a million times better than those players, and that's not even the point I'm making. I'm saying Revis may have had better a better season or seasons than those guys had, but those guys had better careers. You're right, we have had so few great players in our history. And, when we finally found one, it'd be hard to describe him as anything but the (if not one of the) biggest "me-first" player that the NFL has ever seen. When we finally found one, he held out before his rookie year, once again, and was headed for his third hold-out before we traded him rather than pay him another contract that he wouldn't honor. When we finally found one, he won a championship with another team. When we finally found one, he returned and played well below expectations and with minimal effort. Wayne Chrebet doesn't have 1/10th of Revis's talent, but he's universally beloved an appreciated because he was a good player, a Jet through-and-through, played hurt and with a ton of heart. Revis brought none of that to the Jets. So, yes, we can respect Revis's great seasons, and even appreciate them. But, as a whole, maybe an all-time great talent, but by no means an all-time great Jet. In 20 years, Revis won't even be remembered. the agreement was a bandaid to get him into camp in 2010. they knew w/in 2 years they would be renegotiating w/ him. his injury changed things though. those players were nowhere near his level as a cover corner. taking care of his money does not make a player me first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 15 minutes ago, nyjunc said: that was probably based on 2011 heading into 2012. He was the best defensive player in the league for 3 years, we've never had anyone like that in our history. Interestingly enough, the NFL itself did not agree with you there, considering that he was never awarded as such. The 2009 argument about Woodson has certainly been made before and is at least understandable, but Revis was not in even the slightest bit of consideration for DPOY in 2010 or 2011. That of course doesn't mean he was a poor player in those years, but it continues to point to the hyperbole involved in referring to the guy as an all-time great, especially considering that such an argument is completely reliant on 3 of his 10 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin L Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 6 hours ago, SAR I said: That's where you're wrong and make my point: Darrelle Revis didn't take away the opponents best player, he took away their best receiver. Plenty of teams we faced had quarterbacks as their best player or running backs as their best player, and Darrelle Revis didn't prevent them from having big days. And when your #2 and #3 and TE are having field days against the Jets secondary, did it even matter that your #1 was blanketed? I agree that Darrelle Revis was a strong component on some decent Jets teams, but if you could go back in time and trade him for Ray Lewis or Rod Woodson you wouldn't? SAR I The 2009 Jets gave up 153 passing yards per game. The 2010 team gave up 200 yards per game. In a passing league, that's pretty amazing stuff that Revis was definitely a huge part of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said: This is total bullsh*t. Revis has never once had an off the field incident, and we are supposed to believe that just he decided to attack a group of guys in their early 20's?? Fake news. I think we're going to find out some sh*t about Revis a couple years after he retires. Like Marvin Harrison, always quiet, great player, then after he retires you find out the guy is a ******* killer. All we really know about Revis is that he was all about the $$$. People forget that he severed the long-time partnership with is BFF/manager this past season. Then shows up fat and out of shape, and deflecting with nonsense at a faster pace that Trump and Rex trying to sell each other snake oil. I think he's a sociopath. Probably something he learned under Belicheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 9 minutes ago, nyjunc said: the agreement was a bandaid to get him into camp in 2010. they knew w/in 2 years they would be renegotiating w/ him. his injury changed things though. those players were nowhere near his level as a cover corner. taking care of his money does not make a player me first. How about going to play for the Patriots to get a ring? Does that do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 23 minutes ago, SAR I said: Old argument perhaps, but to me it's the entire story. He really didn't do much here. Any time someone needs to remind me of how "great Darrelle Revis is because he shuts down the #1 receiver", like Boomer Esiason used to do on FAN, I say to myself "if he were so great it would be obvious". I think I'm right. SAR I I agree 100%. Revis, as I think you said, was the greatest player to make the least impact on the outcome of a game I can imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 According to Bleacher Report's Jason Cole, the Jets are able to void Darrelle Revis' deal if he's suspended or fined for conduct detrimental to the team or for violating the league's personal conduct policy. The Jets were already unlikely to bring Revis back at his $13 million salary, and his arrest makes it even easier to move on. If Revis is suspended or fined, the Jets can recoup his entire salary including the $6 million he was guaranteed for 2017. The Jets have until March 11 to decide his fate. Revis is due a $2 million roster bonus on that date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said: Interestingly enough, the NFL itself did not agree with you there, considering that he was never awarded as such. The 2009 argument about Woodson has certainly been made before and is at least understandable, but Revis was not in even the slightest bit of consideration for DPOY in 2010 or 2011. That of course doesn't mean he was a poor player in those years, but it continues to point to the hyperbole involved in referring to the guy as an all-time great, especially considering that such an argument is completely reliant on 3 of his 10 seasons. it's hard to win awards doing what he does which is completely shut down opponents, awards are based on stats. do you remember 2005 when Ty law had 10 INts? he made the pro bowel people thought he was great but hew as as bad of a corner that year as I have ever seen. he was picked on every week but he got some INts and fooled people. No corner has ever been a better cover corner than Revis, not Deion, not Green, not Blount not anyone. some may have been better playmakers but they got beat often trying to cheat to get INts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Given that blurb about his contract - I'd have already cut him under the guise of "conduct detrimental to the team". Based on how he played last year. LOL, but with the legal troubles as a cherry on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: How about going to play for the Patriots to get a ring? Does that do it? he helped NE win a SB for the first time in 10 years, a SB they don't win w/o him. did he leave the Jets or did the Jets trade him? did he call the Jets when Tampa released him and what did the Jets say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, SAR I said: If you are saying Darrelle Revis had a bigger impact on the 2009 and 2010 teams because of his lack of playmaking than Mark Sanchez did because of his playmaking you need your head examined. The object is to score points. Preventing them only goes so far. Just ask Rex Ryan. SAR I This is an absolute joke. Mark Sanchez threw for 100 yards and 1 TD and 1 INT against the Chargers. The Jets defense held the Chargers to less than half of the Chargers points average. And Sanchez sucked against the Colts in the playoffs the next year. Mark Sanchez blew and blows. Darrelle Revis was the best player on the unit that was responsible for winning some tough, tough playoff games. I-m-p-a-c-t. As Mike Westoff says, Mark Sanchez was just along for the ride. And just in case you missed it, Revis was voted the best defensive player in the NFL by the OTHER players (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Top_100_Players_of_2012). Sorry, but the players on the field are better evaluators of on-the-field impact than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 10 minutes ago, nyjunc said: the agreement was a bandaid to get him into camp in 2010. they knew w/in 2 years they would be renegotiating w/ him. his injury changed things though. those players were nowhere near his level as a cover corner. taking care of his money does not make a player me first. 32 million dollar bandaid or something like that... But, if that's not enough to see him as a me-first player, how about showing up out of shape? How about his poor effort late in his career? In fact, can you name an instance where Revis appeared to be a team player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 17 minutes ago, SAR I said: Lightly running around doing nothing while his counterpart on the other side of the field is getting torched? What a great performer. There are joggers running ovals at Harborfields High School right now that would be more interesting to pay attention to. SAR I shutting down his side of the field and taking away the opposing QBs best option which limited the opposing offenses and made it easier for us to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, nyjunc said: he helped NE win a SB for the first time in 10 years, a SB they don't win w/o him. did he leave the Jets or did the Jets trade him? did he call the Jets when Tampa released him and what did the Jets say? lol, you're the easiest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 1 minute ago, gEYno said: 32 million dollar bandaid or something like that... But, if that's not enough to see him as a me-first player, how about showing up out of shape? How about his poor effort late in his career? In fact, can you name an instance where Revis appeared to be a team player? the only year he showed up out of shape was this year when he had offseason wrist surgey and couldn't work out. his offseason workouts were legendary before last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: I think we're going to find out some sh*t about Revis a couple years after he retires. Like Marvin Harrison, always quiet, great player, then after he retires you find out the guy is a ******* killer. All we really know about Revis is that he was all about the $$$. People forget that he severed the long-time partnership with is BFF/manager this past season. Then shows up fat and out of shape, and deflecting with nonsense at a faster pace that Trump and Rex trying to sell each other snake oil. I think he's a sociopath. Probably something he learned under Belicheat. You seem onto something, as usual. How do you do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, detectivekimble said: This is an absolute joke. Mark Sanchez threw for 100 yards and 1 TD and 1 INT against the Chargers. The Jets defense held the Chargers to less than half of the Chargers points average. And Sanchez sucked against the Colts in the playoffs the next year. Mark Sanchez blew and blows. Darrelle Revis was the best player on the unit that was responsible for winning some tough, tough playoff games. I-m-p-a-c-t. As Mike Westoff says, Mark Sanchez was just along for the ride. And just in case you missed it, Revis was voted the best defensive player in the NFL by the OTHER players (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Top_100_Players_of_2012). Sorry, but the players on the field are better evaluators of on-the-field impact than you. sanchez was actually the best QB on the field in SD, his #s were lower b/c when we got the lead we just ran the ball and he didn't throw in the 4th qtr. Mark was vital to both runs BUT we were led by our Ds which were led by the greatness of Darrelle Revis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, detectivekimble said: You seem onto something, as usual. How do you do it? It's easy, really. I make up sh*t, and then sit back and wait for people's buttholes to start firing signals to their tear ducts... and voila! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, gEYno said: I agree 100%. Revis, as I think you said, was the greatest player to make the least impact on the outcome of a game I can imagine. Right. That's why Belicheat gave him $12 million. When is the last time Belicheat gave anyone $12 million/year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, nyjunc said: the agreement was a bandaid to get him into camp in 2010. they knew w/in 2 years they would be renegotiating w/ him. his injury changed things though. those players were nowhere near his level as a cover corner. taking care of his money does not make a player me first. Quite literally the only year of his NFL career where it could be argued that Revis was underpaid was 2009. And even then he was paid far more than his draft slot warranted or anyone on a current rookie contract could ever dream of being paid. On the other hand, he was massively overpaid in 2011 (good year, but the amount he got that year was absurd), 2015, and 2016. And that's being generous considering I'm giving him a pass on his tubby 2010, injured 2012, and not giving a crap how much the Bucs overpaid him in 2013. When you combine that with holding out twice in 3 years, and then immediately starting to threaten a third, that kind of invalidates any particular argument of justification that could be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, detectivekimble said: Right. That's why Belicheat gave him $12 million. When is the last time Belicheat gave anyone $12 million/year? $6 million was for Revis. $6 million was GFY money towards the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, detectivekimble said: Right. That's why Belicheat gave him $12 million. When is the last time Belicheat gave anyone $12 million/year? For one season, when they had the space to do so, and with minimal impact to the future. If he was that important, why wasn't he kept is an equally good question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, gEYno said: For one season, when they had the space to do so, and with minimal impact to the future. If he was that important, why wasn't he kept is an equally good question. Because he had a $20 million option. They tried to bring him back. But nice deflection. Why would Belicheat give him $12 million for a year if he has no impact? How many one year, $12 million deals has Belicheat given? Yet, he gives one to Revis? Gee, I wonder why... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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