Another athlete opinion: Phil Simms would take Josh Allen #1

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I agree tbqh.  I mean, I get some tidbits, but the end of the day, the only person who truly knows is Maccagnan, and we won't have those answers until the draft.

The interest in Allen seems genuine at first glance, but this is also the time of year where smokescreens really start coming out and the one thing I'm wondering right now is if the Jets might be trying to goad a team very high on Allen (Cardinals, Bills) into trading up to #2 (if the pick is truly for sale) so that Rosen can fall to us. 

That really makes more sense.  I think mccags first preference is Rosen but yet, so does everyone else.  What if mccagnan is actually setting up a smokescreen but he wants someone to trade up to 2 and grab Rosen.  It sure seems like mccagnan is more interested in Rosen than the other qbs.

[Thai Jet]

55 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

 

Thank you but I was hoping Paradis would have posted this since he was drawing comparisons. I watched his "career" highlite tapes and a know some of those games were from his freashman year. The only good year he had. Noticed his footwork is terrible,Awkward, he doesn't follow thru and most of his TD tosses were to wide open receivers. 

[Matt39]

On 3/21/2018 at 3:31 PM, T0mShane said:

I will admit, that is some freak sh*t.

I mean, can he make enough big plays down the field because of his arm to compensate for average/below average accuracy? He's certainly better than Hackenberg, who looked like a deer in headlights in college.

[Mogglez]

8 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

 

I don't know if this loaded up wrong but your reply is just blank.

[Smashmouth]

The Jets are in the process of wiping Hackenbergs memory ...The Aliens promised it would only take a year...they lied

[Dinamite]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

I don't know if this loaded up wrong but your reply is just blank.

Not sure what happened, but I was just saying thanks for the insight.   I hope it is Rosen.

[prime21]

I still don't get it.  Too many people are acting as if Allen is 2nd player that we are considering picking 3rd in the draft. Although he has work to do, how is it that so may here at JN are dead set against this guy when scouts, coaches and analysts love him.?  Are we in the wrong profession?? 

Lets hope he gets picked before us so that we don't pass on him and wind up regretting it for another 50 years.

[Untouchable]

22 hours ago, MaxAF said:

He’s under pressure and creating. That will work great with the Jets O-Line. The fact that he throws a deep ball, real deep adds a dimension that Defenses have to cover.

Especially if the Jets add another deep threat like Hurns/Pryor to pair with Anderson on the outside.

How anyone can’t help but drool a little on their erected penis over such a scenario is beyond me.

[MDL_JET]

53 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Posted this a couple of days ago.  Unfortunately, at this time, I know as much as you guys.

Personally, I don't believe that he's above Rosen at this time.  Saw this today in response to Allbright regarding that:

Manish Mehta also posted a mailbag today stating that he's heard that we have it 1. Darnold 2. Rosen 3. Allen.

It's going to be a long, anxiety filled, couple of weeks leading up to the draft, at least for me.  If the Jets draft Allen, let alone draft him over Rosen, you guys probably won't be seeing much of me around here for a while. I cannot, and will not, support the decision to do that with blind Faith. 

Idk who that Salfino guy is but after reading his tweets after the JPP trade, he sure does seem confident the giants are passing on a qb and taking Chubb. 

 

[Adoni Beast]

I think the Jets are expecting (idk maybe from inside info around the front office circles) Rosen to be there at 3 and pulled the trigger on the trade. But it does look like he Jets are all in for Rosen. If we can get him, this would be a near flawless off season.

I think they’d also be more than thrilled if they had to settle for Allen, who can sit for a year. But Rosen has been Mac’s guy all along.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

I mean, can he make enough big plays down the field because of his arm to compensate for average/below average accuracy? He's certainly better than Hackenberg, who looked like a deer in headlights in college.

I would guess no. It seems like every NFL game comes down to who converts on the most 3rd and 6’s in the fourth quarter, which is why Nick Foles is winning titles and RGIII is out of the league. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, T0mShane said:

I would guess no. It seems like every NFL game comes down to who converts on the most 3rd and 6’s in the fourth quarter, which is why Nick Foles is winning titles and RGIII is out of the league. 

Exactly.   Guys like Boomer esiason drool over guys like allen because that's how athletes think.  But give me a guy who can convert 3rd and 6, not the guy who is 6'5" who can run a 4.7 and throw a pass downfield 40 yards that looks amazing that leads to a punt.  

 

[Mogglez]

On 3/21/2018 at 3:31 PM, T0mShane said:

I will admit, that is some freak sh*t.

Carziest part is, it's missing his best throw.  This TD is, by far,  the most impressive throw I've seen him make.  Even as a guy sh*tting his pants over potentially drafting the kid, I can give him credit and admit that this toss is a certified, big boy, NFL quality, throw and read:

Same throw, 2 angles.  Perfect footwork from under center, sells the fake beautifully, reads and moves the safety (#14) with his eyes, then drills the dang thing in a perfect spot.  That arm is absolutely insane. 

[T0mShane]

13 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Carziest part is, it's missing his best throw.  This TD is, by far,  the most impressive throw I've seen him make.  Even as a guy sh*thing his pants over drafting the kid, this toss is a certified, big boy, NFL quality, throw and read:

Same throw, 2 angles.  Perfect footwork from under center, sells the fake beautifully, reads and moves the safety (#14) with his eyes, then drills the dang thing in a perfect spot.  That arm is absolutely insane. 

I think I’ve got a similar feeling with him as I did with Mahomes last year: intrigued by the tools and highlights, but have zero confidence in our current regime to turn him into a quarterback. 

[prime21]

He has the tools and has some highlight plays but dam, no consistency.  He could be like Cris Carter (MLB).  If he gets good wod on it, its iflying out the park but most of the time he is swinging and missing.

[Jetmech]

Imagine 15 years from now the stories about how the Browns, Giants and Jets passed on Hall Of Famer Josh Allen for guys that became journey men in the NFL. 

Wouldn't surprise me...

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I think I’ve got a similar feeling with him as I did with Mahomes last year: intrigued by the tools and highlights, but have zero confidence in our current regime to turn him into a quarterback. 

It's funny that you mentioned Mahomes, because now that I've been watching Allen far more extensively over the course of the off-season, that is who I am starting to see him mirror as a prospect, except he has experience in a pro system.  I'd definitely say that it's a far better comp than Hackenberg at this point, which I originally had him pegged as.  However, Hackenberg prematurely ejaculates over making the throws Allen does.  They're totally different guys in both their flaws and strengths, something I didn't think I'd find myself admitting this late in the game.  Allen has more than his fair share of throws like the one above on his tape.  Hack didn't.

All in all, I get why there is the hype.  I really do.  When you watch the kid, you start to dream about how awesome it could be seeing him thread absolute lasers in the hands of Enunwa, Anderson, and Kearse (I guess Pryor now too). I just don't want to worry about the development of the guy.  I've spent my whole life as a fan worried about the "potential" of someone.  I don't want that anymore.  I want the polished kid.  The Matt Ryan.  The Matt Stafford.  The Andrew Luck.  The Jared Goff.  Now?  The Josh Rosen.  I can live with taking Rosen, passing on Allen, and having "Goff over Wentz" if they both pan out.  I don't know if I could swallow the pill of passing on the Matt Stafford (Rosen) of this year's draft for something that is "potentially" nothing more than a slightly better player when you really look at em.  Yeah, Big Ben with Cams athleticism is something to drool over, but when there is a good chance that you never see that and are left with something totally unknown vs the, borderline, sure thing...is it worth it?  I mean, going back to Stafford (who I compare Rosen to quite a bit), would you rather have him or Cam?  Most people could probably make intensely strong arguments for both, but that's where my issue is.  How far apart are they?  Is potentially bombing out and ending up with absolutely nothing worth the small difference in what they bring to the table as QBs?  Ultimately, I don't think so.  Not when you have gone as long as we have without a QB.  I spit vitriol about not supporting him if he's the pick and I'm wrong.  I wouldn't be able to help myself.  I just don't want to even worry about it.  Just take Rosen if he's there and give me some piece of mind.  That's all I'm asking for at this point.

[prime21]

What very good Qb’s of recent memory came in with a high skill like Allen but with many question marks and the developmental tag?


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[Mogglez]

4 minutes ago, prime21 said:

What very good Qb’s of recent memory came in with a high skill like Allen but with many question marks and the developmental tag?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

As T0m said, Mahomes. Although, his book is far from written. 

Cam Newton would probably be the biggest success story.

[prime21]

As T0m said, Mahomes.

He’s not proven yet. I Should have said QB’s that have been playing for a few years.

 

 

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[Mogglez]

Just now, prime21 said:

He’s not proven yet.


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Yeah, edited my post to add that.

Cam would probably be the best one in recent memory.

[nico002]

2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

As T0m said, Mahomes. Although, his book is far from written. 

Cam Newton would probably be the biggest success story.

Big Ben, Flacco, wentz.

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

It's funny that you mentioned Mahomes, because now that I've been watching Allen far more extensively over the course of the off-season, that is who I am starting to see him mirror as a prospect, except he has experience in a pro system.  I'd definitely say that it's a far better comp than Hackenberg at this point, which I originally had him pegged as.  However, Hackenberg prematurely ejaculates over making the throws Allen does.  They're totally different guys in both their flaws and strengths, something I didn't think I'd find myself admitting this late in the game.  Allen has more than his fair share of throws like the one above on his tape.  Hack didn't.

All in all, I get the hype.  I really do.  When you watch the kid, you start to dream about how awesome it could be seeing him thread absolute lasers in the hands of Enunwa, Anderson, and Kearse (I guess Pryor now too). I just don't want to worry about the development of the guy.  I've spent my whole life as a fan worried about the "potential" of someone.  I don't want that anymore.  I want the polished kid.  The Matt Ryan.  The Matt Stafford.  The Andrew Luck.  The Jared Goff.  Now?  The Josh Rosen.  I can live with taking Rosen, passing on Allen, and having "Goff over Wentz" if they both pan out.  I don't know if I could swallow the pill of passing on the Matt Stafford (Rosen) of this year's draft for something that is "potentially" nothing more than a slightly better.  Yeah, Big Ben with Cams athleticism is something to drool over, but when there is a good chance that you never see that and are left with something totally unknown vs the, borderline, sure thing...is it worth it?  I don't think so.  Not when you have gone as long as we have without a QB.  I spit vitriol about not supporting him if he's the pick and I'm wrong.  I wouldn't be able to help myself.  I just don't want to even worry about it.  Just take Rosen if he's there and give me some piece of mind.   That's all I'm asking for at this point.

Good post. I’m not nearly as far down the line as you are with the hope for Allen, but only because I’ve sat through too many traits-y guys who just “needed a little time to develop.” Sanchez, Geno, Petty, and Hack: all dudes I feel like I had at least some hopes for (except Hack) and all dudes who sucked. I can appreciate that Allen is a nice kid with a monster arm, but he’s a see-it-throw-it guy and those dudes never put it together on the NFL level. I’ve watched long stretches of Allen play and it was always gross in between those highlight tosses. Maybe he goes somewhere with a QB guru who designs an offense around him a la McVay with Goff, but he’s not getting that here. But, if we do take him, I’ll root for his development and hope that, like the Rams did, we fire our version of Jeff Fisher and bring in a staff that knows quarterbacks.

[Mogglez]

Just now, nico002 said:

Big Ben, Flacco, wentz.

I wasn't old enough to understand the concerns about Ben as a prospect so I can't really comment on him.  Flacco for sure.  Wentz I'll disagree with.  I was head over heels in love with that kid, even when he was a junior.  He had mechanics, accuracy, smarts, everything.  Obviously the biggest concern was level of competition, but I wasn't concerned with that because he outright dominated everyone he played.  I firmly felt that he deserved to go #1 overall.

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Big Ben, Flacco, wentz.

All significantly better statistical profiles in college. Roethlisberger was dominant as a junior before coming out: 69%, 37 TDs, 10 INTs, throwing to nobodies.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ben-roethlisberger-1.html

[Mogglez]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Good post. I’m not nearly as far down the line as you are with the hope for Allen, but only because I’ve sat through too many traits-y guys who just “needed a little time to develop.” Sanchez, Geno, Petty, and Hack: all dudes I feel like I had at least some hopes for (except Hack) and all dudes who sucked. I can appreciate that Allen is a nice kid with a monster arm, but he’s a see-it-throw-it guy and those dudes never put it together on the NFL level. I’ve watched long stretches of Allen play and it was always gross in between those highlight tosses. Maybe he goes somewhere with a QB guru who designs an offense around him a la McVay with Goff, but he’s not getting that here. But, if we do take him, I’ll root for his development and hope that, like the Rams did, we fire our version of Jeff Fisher and bring in a staff that knows quarterbacks.

Pretty much agree with you on everything.  Trust me, despite how "positive" that post sounded, I'm not down any line with the kid.  It was more or less to admit that maybe comparing him to the failed corpse of Hackenberg was a bit premature and, dare I say, lazy on my part.  I'd rather be totally fair to him (not that he'll ever read this) and compare him to someone like Mahomes or Paxton Lynch if Paxton cared about football.  Adding on to that, I was never aboard the Lynch or Mahomes train for the same reasons I am, ultimately, not aboard the Allen>>>everyone else train. 

[Patriot Killa]

23 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

It's funny that you mentioned Mahomes, because now that I've been watching Allen far more extensively over the course of the off-season, that is who I am starting to see him mirror as a prospect, except he has experience in a pro system.  I'd definitely say that it's a far better comp than Hackenberg at this point, which I originally had him pegged as.  However, Hackenberg prematurely ejaculates over making the throws Allen does.  They're totally different guys in both their flaws and strengths, something I didn't think I'd find myself admitting this late in the game.  Allen has more than his fair share of throws like the one above on his tape.  Hack didn't.

All in all, I get the hype.  I really do.  When you watch the kid, you start to dream about how awesome it could be seeing him thread absolute lasers in the hands of Enunwa, Anderson, and Kearse (I guess Pryor now too). I just don't want to worry about the development of the guy.  I've spent my whole life as a fan worried about the "potential" of someone.  I don't want that anymore.  I want the polished kid.  The Matt Ryan.  The Matt Stafford.  The Andrew Luck.  The Jared Goff.  Now?  The Josh Rosen.  I can live with taking Rosen, passing on Allen, and having "Goff over Wentz" if they both pan out.  I don't know if I could swallow the pill of passing on the Matt Stafford (Rosen) of this year's draft for something that is "potentially" nothing more than a slightly better.  Yeah, Big Ben with Cams athleticism is something to drool over, but when there is a good chance that you never see that and are left with something totally unknown vs the, borderline, sure thing...is it worth it?  I don't think so.  Not when you have gone as long as we have without a QB.  I spit vitriol about not supporting him if he's the pick and I'm wrong.  I wouldn't be able to help myself.  I just don't want to even worry about it.  Just take Rosen if he's there and give me some piece of mind.   That's all I'm asking for at this point.

Very well said. My exact thoughts.

[nico002]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

All significantly better statistical profiles in college. Roethlisberger was dominant as a junior before coming out: 69%, 37 TDs, 10 INTs, throwing to nobodies.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ben-roethlisberger-1.html

Yea I mean he was throwing to nobodies playing against nobodies. Ben was drafted because of his huge size and mobility.

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Yea I mean he was throwing to nobodies playing against nobodies. Ben was drafted because of his huge size and mobility.

And because he was completing 69% of his passes, though, which is a far bit away from what Allen was doing.

[T0mShane]

18 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Pretty much agree with you on everything.  Trust me, despite how "positive" that post sounded, I'm not down any line with the kid.  It was more or less to admit that maybe comparing him to the failed corpse of Hackenberg was a bit premature and, dare I say, lazy on my part.  I'd rather be totally fair to him (not that he'll ever read this) and compare him to someone like Mahomes or Paxton Lynch if Paxton cared about football.  Adding on to that, I was never aboard the Lynch or Mahomes train for the same reasons I am, ultimately, not aboard the Allen>>>everyone else train. 

To clarify, I wasn’t singling you out. Over the next five weeks, we’re all going to be dragged down the line toward liking Allen more than we do today simply because he’s gonna be the Jets’ default option at 3 when the draft rolls around.

[RedBeardedSavage]

I see a lot of people are starting to warm up to Josh Allen.  Funny how that works a month before the draft when the noise is at its maximum.  

I wanted to draft Pat Mahomes last year.  I want nothing to do with Allen this year.  

Allen:

 

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
2015	Wyoming	MWC	SO	QB	2	4	6	66.7	51	8.5	8.5	0	0	138.1
*2016	Wyoming	MWC	SO	QB	14	209	373	56.0	3203	8.6	8.3	28	15	144.9
*2017	Wyoming	MWC	JR	QB	11	152	270	56.3	1812	6.7	6.9	16	6	127.8
Career	Wyoming					365	649	56.2	5066	7.8	7.7	44	21	137.7

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/josh-allen-7.html

Mahomes:

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
2014	Texas Tech	Big 12	FR	QB	7	105	185	56.8	1547	8.4	9.1	16	4	151.2
*2015	Texas Tech	Big 12	SO	QB	13	364	573	63.5	4653	8.1	8.2	36	15	147.2
2016	Texas Tech	Big 12	JR	QB	12	388	591	65.7	5052	8.5	9.2	41	10	157.0
*2017	Texas Tech	Big 12	SR	QB
Career	Texas Tech					857	1349	63.5	11252	8.3	8.8	93	29	152.0

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/patrick-mahomes-1.html

Mahomes had more than double the pass attempts and improved his completion percentage every year.  Not saying this is the reason why I don't like Allen - it's one of them, certainly - but I'd like to at least put it out there why I think the Mahomes comparison doesn't hold water.

I hope Allen gets picked ahead of us.  I'd take any of the other quarterbacks, including Lamar Jackson who barely gets mentioned anymore, over Josh Allen.

[dbatesman]

50 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Big Ben, Flacco, wentz.

LOL

[varjet]

14 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I don't know if I could swallow the pill of passing on the Matt Stafford (Rosen) of this year's draft for something that is "potentially" nothing more than a slightly better player when you really look at em...

I mean, going back to Stafford (who I compare Rosen to quite a bit), would you rather have him or Cam?  Most people could probably make intensely strong arguments for both, but that's where my issue is.  How far apart are they?  Is potentially bombing out and ending up with absolutely nothing worth the small difference in what they bring to the table as QBs?  Ultimately, I don't think so.  Not when you have gone as long as we have without a QB.  I spit vitriol about not supporting him if he's the pick and I'm wrong.  I wouldn't be able to help myself.  I just don't want to even worry about it.  Just take Rosen if he's there and give me some piece of mind.  That's all I'm asking for at this point.

Matthew Stafford was a big, strong Southern boy dating and then marrying the hot cheerleader who would dump him if he was not playing QB anymore.

Rosen's family will stage an intervention if he gets more than 1 NFL concussion.

[Philc1]

20 hours ago, prime21 said:

I still don't get it.  Too many people are acting as if Allen is 2nd player that we are considering picking 3rd in the draft. Although he has work to do, how is it that so may here at JN are dead set against this guy when scouts, coaches and analysts love him.?  

[ARodJetsFan]

On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 9:48 AM, T0mShane said:

? good to see you around, homey.

Thanks brother, good talking to you again as well.