Todd Bowles Is Actually Ahead of His Time

[rammagen]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

This comment is almost as good as the one Walt Michaels made at halftime of a preseason game in either 1981-82. He was asked to describe the offense for the upcoming season....' we're gonna be like the Chargers but we're not gonna throw as much."  My friends and I still wet our pants to this day over that one. At least Walt had the excuse that he hit the bottle. Bowles is just an idiot.

I love Walt Michaels. he has to be my all time favorite coach for the Jets.

I love this one from him

"Every man has some fear. A man with no fear belongs in a mental institution."

[RSJ]

Yeah, not so much. The NFL is clearly favoring high scoring. Largely because it drives FFB interest. Running does not drive scoring, passing does. Every year they put in more and more rules that favor the passing game. This is not changing enough to bring back power running games. Its too hard to have a dominant defense these days because of rule changes. A strong running game and a mediocre defense may win some games in the NFL, but it will not be strong enough to be a perennial SB contender which is what most teams want. The pass heavy NFL is here to stay, its not cycling back any time soon.

Yeah so the NFL has been adjusting the rules for a while now. The 5 yard chuck rule actually came into play in the 90s. It was brought back as a point of emphasis in the 2000s when running became very prominent again and defenses caught up. Teams like the Patriots had abused it in the playoffs and combined it with a very effective running game to win. Defense will always adjust their schemes and athletes to slow the passing games down - but it takes time however. Its not really possible for passing to stay on top statistically because its a lower percentage play. Besides that fact passing verse running is very similar to 4-3 vs 3-4. Teams will all jump on one bandwagon claiming its the new defense. Then a team with the other front will collect a lot of talent that no one wants because everyone is chasing the latest trend. This causes the team that bucks the trend to have so much talent they cant be stopped. Wash rinse repeat.


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[Barry McCockinner]

[RSJ]

The biggest problem with the Jets over the last 50 years is constantly listening to the fans like the ones in this thread. Its probably why Belichick didnt take the job.


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[HessStation]

Holy **** kill me

[The Crusher]

So does that mean we got 10 more years of rebuilding?

[UntouchableCrew]

He's somewhat right in the sense that as the league becomes more and more passing dominant and defenses become more and more built to stop the pass there will be teams who go the opposite way. Try to capitalize the trend and zig when everyone else is zagging, building a power running game none of the "modern" NFL defenses are equipped to stop.

But obviously barring rules changes the overall league isn't going back in time. 

[section314]

41 minutes ago, rammagen said:

I love Walt Michaels. he has to be my all time favorite coach for the Jets.

I love this one from him

"Every man has some fear. A man with no fear belongs in a mental institution."

Man was a very good coach.

[rangerous]

3 hours ago, slats said:

Todd Bowles predicts running the football will come back — eventually

Posted by Darin Gantt on November 2, 2018, 8:12 AM EDT

Getty Images

Jets coach Todd Bowles isn’t blind. He sees the offensive numbers exploding around the league.

But he can’t help but think eventually football will revert to its past.

Via Manish Mehta of the New York Daily News, Bowles said the trend toward wide-open offense will eventually recede, and teams will think it’s cool to run again.

“It’ll change back,” Bowles said. “It’ll recycle itself. Probably not in my coaching career, but it will recycle itself, . . . Maybe in the next 10 years, it’ll cycle back.”

Scoring is at a record pace this season, and with rules written the way they are, it’s unlikely that many people will want to avoid a clear trend. But there is some anecdotal evidence in favor of old school football, as four of the top five teams in rushing yards made the playoffs last year.

“It only takes one team to have success doing that,” Bowles said. “It’s a copycat league, so everybody will follow suit. Eventually in the next 10 years, I expect that to go back.”

Of course, if everyone is going one direction, there will always be some value in bucking the trend. But that trend is so strong at the moment, it’s hard not to think Bowles’ estimate of the running comeback might be optimistic.

he's right in a sense.  the way to beat the chuck and duck teams is to keep their offense off the field.  but that doesn't mean handing of 50 times a game.  teams need to be able to pass.  and logically, reeivers always have an advantage over db's because they know where they running and where the ball will be thrown to.  i can't see it trending the other way anytime soon because the college game is also more passing.  and, as others have said, the passing game puts fannies in the seats.  barring rule changes the passing is hereto stay.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

I feel like you're a lover in denial....

Jet Nut actually thinks both Bowles and Macc are both good at their jobs.

[Jetsfan80]

Quick.  Aside from Marshawn Lynch, name one elite RB to play in the Super Bowl in the last 15 years. 

[Jetsfan80]

In every phase of a pass play, there's a heavy risk of a penalty on the defense. Roughing the passer, illegal contact, defensive holding, Pass interference, and unnecessary roughness on a defenseless receiver.

How many defensive penalties are possible on run plays? 

[HessStation]

[BurnleyJet]

[NoBowles]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

and it's even more ironic that mccagnan and bowles keep adding pieces to the secondary to stop the other teams' passing attacks, yet bowles preaches running on his offense.  why add adams/maye/johnson/claiborne/nickerson/middleton if the league is going to return to running.  it's so hypocritical and all it does is speak to how fearful bowles is of turnovers and losing by a lobsided score.  

Its not as ironic as you might think. Bowles, like Rex, are DC's masquerading as HC's. What this means is, they both care more about the defense than the overall team. Its an NFL survival mechanism. They understand that the life of an NFL HC is limited, but a DC can last much, much longer. A lot of coordinators turned HC know that they need to keep up the perception that they are still really good at their side of the ball.

So, Rex, Bowles, and others, want their side of the ball to look really good. How do you do that as a DC? Have a low scoring, ball control offense, aka running game. If other teams don't need to take a lot of chances to beat you, they won't. They won't put up a ton of scoring because they know the only way they lose is to turn the ball over.

How many times does a Rex or Bowles defense give up a ton of points when the offense scores a ton of points? For all the talk about how great the 09 defense was, look how many times the offense won a game by putting up over 30 and winning by less than a TD.

DC's inherently want low scoring games, it makes their defense look better. Bowles is a DC. 

[RSJ]

Quick.  Aside from Marshawn Lynch, name one elite RB to play in the Super Bowl in the last 15 years. 

Ray Rice and Frank Gore. Both elite. Many super bowl teams had elite running games by committee.


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[RSJ]

He's somewhat right in the sense that as the league becomes more and more passing dominant and defenses become more and more built to stop the pass there will be teams who go the opposite way. Try to capitalize the trend and zig when everyone else is zagging, building a power running game none of the "modern" NFL defenses are equipped to stop.
But obviously barring rules changes the overall league isn't going back in time. 

Its not going back in time - but defense will catch up. Then the league will adjust again.


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[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Its not as ironic as you might think. Bowles, like Rex, are DC's masquerading as HC's. What this means is, they both care more about the defense than the overall team. Its an NFL survival mechanism. They understand that the life of an NFL HC is limited, but a DC can last much, much longer. A lot of coordinators turned HC know that they need to keep up the perception that they are still really good at their side of the ball.

So, Rex, Bowles, and others, want their side of the ball to look really good. How do you do that as a DC? Have a low scoring, ball control offense, aka running game. If other teams don't need to take a lot of chances to beat you, they won't. They won't put up a ton of scoring because they know the only way they lose is to turn the ball over.

How many times does a Rex or Bowles defense give up a ton of points when the offense scores a ton of points? For all the talk about how great the 09 defense was, look how many times the offense won a game by putting up over 30 and winning by less than a TD.

DC's inherently want low scoring games, it makes their defense look better. Bowles is a DC. 

true but my main point was, here you have bowles saying that nfl offenses will go back to focusing on running, yet they can't add enough safeties and cbs to stop other teams from hanging 40 on them.  then they run crowell on 2nd and 15 and wonder why it doesn't work.

[NoBowles]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

true but my main point was, here you have bowles saying that nfl offenses will go back to focusing on running, yet they can't add enough safeties and cbs to stop other teams from hanging 40 on them.  then they run crowell on 2nd and 15 and wonder why it doesn't work.

agree

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, JiF said:

I feel like you're a lover in denial....

What's to be in denial over?  That people like to whine that we're a ground and pound y'all when we're not?  Is we were whats to deny?  You have to do better

[JustInFudge]

26 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

What's to be in denial over?  That people like to whine that we're a ground and pound y'all when we're not?  Is we were whats to deny?  You have to do better

Why do I have to do better?  I'm not the one constantly talking about running the Football when the entire game is focused around passing.  I'm not firing my offensive coordinator because the threw the ball too much.  That would be the working of Todd Bowles, who is outwardly and openingly admitting, he loves ground and pound but you stay in denial. 

This has nothing to do with whining and everything to do with repeating the words that come out of Todd Bowles mouth.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, RSJ said:

Ray Rice and Frank Gore. Both elite. Many super bowl teams had elite running games by committee.
 

lol.  Nope. 

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Quick.  Aside from Marshawn Lynch, name one elite RB to play in the Super Bowl in the last 15 years. 

15 years?  Off the top of my head...

Marshall Faulk, Jerome Bettis, Edge James, Frank Gore, Ray Rice, Corey Dillon, Brian Westbrook, Shaun Alexander, Devonte Freeman.  

[Jetster]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol.  Nope. 

Le'veon Bell is more than just a great RB, he might be one of the best RB pass catchers in NFL history. He's Matt Forte X 2. 

If Bell was the azzhole cancer some fans on here like to portray him as, his colleagues would not be constantly voting for him as a top 5 player in this league. Most stars don't put their health over the team anymore unless they've been dinged in the head too often. Bell wants what Elliotts gotten, he wants to be shown the money. I don't blame him one bit. There are no more Hacksaw Reynolds or Jack Youngbloods in this league. 

I mean seriously, just look at Skrine & OBJs hair, Kamaras gold teeth & guys celebrating tackles 5 yards down the field. The new NFL pretty much sucks unless the refs constantly turn games with horrible PI & holding calls at just the precisely most opportune time to make the primetime games between the playoff bound close. 

Its a sham. We have to do everything we can to force the NFL refs to give Sam the STAR treatment. 

[Jetsfan80]

17 minutes ago, JiF said:

15 years?  Off the top of my head...

Marshall Faulk, Jerome Bettis, Edge James, Frank Gore, Ray Rice, Corey Dillon, Brian Westbrook, Shaun Alexander, Devonte Freeman.  

Faulk, James and Westbrook were prior to that timeline.  I specifically chose the last 15 years as the time frame because that's when the rules/emphasis started to shift dramatically towards the passing game.

You're pushing it with Bettis, who was certainly not an elite back when he got his ring.  He was in a committee then.

Freeman?  Come on.   

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Faulk, James and Westbrook were prior to that timeline.

You're pushing it with Bettis, who was certainly not an elite back when he got his ring.  He was in a committee then.

Freeman?  Come on.   

Freeman had a shade under 2000 total yards and 14 TD's.  

Stephen Davis ran for 1500 yards and 10 TD's for the Panthers.

Willie Parker ran for 1500 and 16 TD's for the Steelers.

[Jetster]

Bowles better win these 2 next games. END OF STORY! 4 years into your coaching career & you got the job as some kind of defensive magician but you can't beat 2 backup journeyman! If he loses 2 & keeps his job? we are screwed!

[Gen X Jet]

Our very own Belichick

[TJ]

7 hours ago, slats said:

Todd Bowles predicts running the football will come back — eventually

Posted by Darin Gantt on November 2, 2018, 8:12 AM EDT

Getty Images

Jets coach Todd Bowles isn’t blind. He sees the offensive numbers exploding around the league.

But he can’t help but think eventually football will revert to its past.

Via Manish Mehta of the New York Daily News, Bowles said the trend toward wide-open offense will eventually recede, and teams will think it’s cool to run again.

“It’ll change back,” Bowles said. “It’ll recycle itself. Probably not in my coaching career, but it will recycle itself, . . . Maybe in the next 10 years, it’ll cycle back.”

Scoring is at a record pace this season, and with rules written the way they are, it’s unlikely that many people will want to avoid a clear trend. But there is some anecdotal evidence in favor of old school football, as four of the top five teams in rushing yards made the playoffs last year.

“It only takes one team to have success doing that,” Bowles said. “It’s a copycat league, so everybody will follow suit. Eventually in the next 10 years, I expect that to go back.”

Of course, if everyone is going one direction, there will always be some value in bucking the trend. But that trend is so strong at the moment, it’s hard not to think Bowles’ estimate of the running comeback might be optimistic.

Disagree!

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

Why do I have to do better?  I'm not the one constantly talking about running the Football when the entire game is focused around passing.  I'm not firing my offensive coordinator because the threw the ball too much.  That would be the working of Todd Bowles, who is outwardly and openingly admitting, he loves ground and pound but you stay in denial. 

This has nothing to do with whining and everything to do with repeating the words that come out of Todd Bowles mouth.

Lets start with this.  Every one who ever covered the Jets under Rex called the Jets a ground and pound team.  We all knew it, we all said it and Rex believed in it.

Other than a handful of fans on this site, who apparently have no idea what ground and pound means think that because Bowles is a D HC or because like any HC and every HC would love to be able to have a solid run game that we're ground and pound.  

To make it better, without anything that says we are I'm in denial?  OK

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

and it's even more ironic that mccagnan and bowles keep adding pieces to the secondary to stop the other teams' passing attacks, yet bowles preaches running on his offense.  why add adams/maye/johnson/claiborne/nickerson/middleton if the league is going to return to running.  it's so hypocritical and all it does is speak to how fearful bowles is of turnovers and losing by a lobsided score.  

Think you missed a lot of what he said.  

By a mile

[JustInFudge]

24 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Lets start with this.  Every one who ever covered the Jets under Rex called the Jets a ground and pound team.  We all knew it, we all said it and Rex believed in it.

Other than a handful of fans on this site, who apparently have no idea what ground and pound means think that because Bowles is a D HC or because like any HC and every HC would love to be able to have a solid run game that we're ground and pound.  

To make it better, without anything that says we are I'm in denial?  OK

Apparently I'm one of those posters so help me out here, what does ground and pound mean?

[Grandy]

This is just sad.

How can you manage a game like he does and say such embarrassing things all of the time and retain a job. Notice how he said that 10 years probably wouldn't be in his coaching career because he knows that he'll be run off soon.

[Thai Jet]

7 hours ago, Happy Clouds said:

Bowles SAYS HE KNOWS the trend is leading towards record offensive numbers, and playing with a more wide open style.

But, he too often coaches like he doesn’t seem to really BELIEVE it.

Of course he doesn't. You've been lied to.

[Larz]

It actually circles back every year when the weather gets bad