Holy.... Sugar. Williams is the new Mo Wilk

[jgb]

4 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Because it’s too general of a narrative. Todd Bowles has 8 billion responsibilities per week. Most of them painstakingly administrative and bureaucratic. I realize that we all like to believe that coaching is like what Al Pacino does in Any Given Sunday but reality is sans the QB head coaches have little time to devote to each and every guy. It’s not a head coach’s job to motivate guys who get paid to do their job to do their job. Jets fans, including myself, have been singing this narrative of motivation and playcalling and route trees since Parcells about every single guy but maybe the answer is a lot simpler than that and the players just aren’t very good. 

If it was one DL losing the will to play, I'd agree it was two general. But it's more likely that the common denominator (Bowles) is to blame. Also saying the the players aren't very good... the two data points we do have are that Mope and Sheldumb played very well under Rex. Sheldon even got DROTY if I recall.

[HessStation]

the next Reggie White, they said

[HessStation]

Also, has anyone mentioned he's a Captain yet?

[Creepy Lurker]

4 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Also, has anyone mentioned he's a Captain yet?

Well he wears it well and clearly is the embodiment of our coach’s vision of mediocrity, underperforming and not having any fire. 

[sourceworx]

56 minutes ago, jgb said:

If it was one DL losing the will to play, I'd agree it was two general. But it's more likely that the common denominator (Bowles) is to blame. Also saying the the players aren't very good... the two data points we do have are that Mo and Sheldumb played very well under Rex. Sheldon even got DROTY if I recall.

This. So this.

Mo and Sheldon played hard for Rex. You never saw them dogging it in a game when Rex was the coach. And he was hardly a taskmaster.

We've seen it several times under Bowles. We've seen the team literally give up in games on numerous occasions. This is all on Todd. He's the root of the issue.

[14 in Green]

54 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Also, has anyone mentioned he's a Captain yet?

 

48 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

Well he wears it well and clearly is the embodiment of our coach’s vision of mediocrity, underperforming and not having any fire. 

This one is just sitting right there for me, but I don’t want to get anyone’s panties twisted, so I’m going to take a pass. ?

[Beerfish]

3 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Because it’s too general of a narrative. Todd Bowles has 8 billion responsibilities per week. Most of them painstakingly administrative and bureaucratic. I realize that we all like to believe that coaching is like what Al Pacino does in Any Given Sunday but reality is sans the QB head coaches have little time to devote to each and every guy. It’s not a head coach’s job to motivate guys who get paid to do their job to do their job. Jets fans, including myself, have been singing this narrative of motivation and playcalling and route trees since Parcells about every single guy but maybe the answer is a lot simpler than that and the players just aren’t very good. 

This is not a one off, thus the generalization on my part.  What vet players have played up to their value money wise or draft pick wise under bowles?

Whether like it or jot of figure it should be or not a football locker room is filled with personalitys and one of the skills of a head coach is to get the best out of players. 

You can't tell me he is handling these guys correctly, guys as in plural.

Now personally I think part of leos problem is that bowles and rogers are such bloody awful coaches they have no clue how to put their best players in position to make an impact.  Bowles also has a history if flat out giving up in games.

[VinnyT16]

To be fair 2015 wasnt a great draft and there were many disappointing picks. 

Vic Beasley had a monster year two years ago, but what has he done since?

Kevin White and Ereck Flowers were much worse picks than Leonard Williams in the top 10.

Hindsight 20/20 Gurley was the pick, but can you fault a GM for not drafting a RB coming off a torn ACL 6th overall? 

[Ken Schroy]

He's got such a great smile though.

[bitonti]

12 hours ago, flgreen said:

If you look at the final frame that you posted, yes, Leo's out of the play.  He's out of the play because he's already walking straight up.  Where would he be if he was running, like every outer person in the picture is?  including the ref. 

Yeah I think the kid's paid to be running hard there.  Everybody else in the picture seems to think so to.

paid to be running hard sure

he's also paid to play 95% of defensive snaps, the highest defensive lineman on the Jets, by far

the next highest participation rate from the DL is Henry Anderson at 69% 

I don't begrudge that dude for pacing himself on an impossible play. he's eating snaps all season at too high a rate other teams rotate their DL the Jet don't rotate Leo. HE earns the C Patch because he's out there all season long.

I understand hating the Jets, I even understand hating the coach but all the haters in this leo thread, a couple days after a road divisional win, i don't get 

The Jets have like 5 decent players and he's one of em.  Everyone in this thread is butthurt they won for draft/coach firing reasons. Get over it. Enjoy the victory that's the whole point of this. There's no one in the draft coming to save this franchise they need to win games so they can stop being a losing culture and start being a winning culture. Winning fixes everything and forgives everything. Therefore Leo's effort last week was fine because they won. 

[JustInFudge]

12 hours ago, RobR said:

It is the head coaches job to get his entire team motivated. He does that by disciplining players, benching them and not rewarding them with captaincy a week or two after. I'd also hope behind closed doors he calls them out.

If you're dogging it as a player week after week and nothing changes.....well that is entirely on the coach. 

What I've learned about coaching in the NFL thanks to JN this year:

- coaching, really doesnt matter, it's all about talent

- coaches, all call the same exact plays, at the same exact times in games, therefore, playing calling/playbooks and scheme, does not matter, it's all execution and talent

- coaches, are not responsible for penalties and/or missed assignments

- coaches, are not responsible for a single player who is added to the roster 

- coaches, are not responsible for winning tight ball games.

And now, probably the best one I've seen to date/

- coaches, are not respsonbile for motivating their team.

It's like, why even hire a coach?  

[JustInFudge]

10 hours ago, HessStation said:

Also, has anyone mentioned he's a Captain yet?

Captain?  Did you miss the article that Sperm posted where Todd added Leo's painting to the wall of legends?

[JustInFudge]

14 minutes ago, bitonti said:

paid to be running hard sure

he's also paid to play 95% of defensive snaps, the highest defensive lineman on the Jets, by far

the next highest participation rate from the DL is Henry Anderson at 69% 

I don't begrudge that dude for pacing himself on an impossible play. he's eating snaps all season at too high a rate other teams rotate their DL the Jet don't rotate Leo. HE earns the C Patch because he's out there all season long.

I understand hating the Jets, I even understand hating the coach but all the haters in this leo thread, a couple days after a road divisional win, i don't get 

The Jets have like 5 decent players and he's one of em.  Everyone in this thread is butthurt they won for draft/coach firing reasons. Get over it. Enjoy the victory that's the whole point of this. There's no one in the draft coming to save this franchise they need to win games so they can stop being a losing culture and start being a winning culture. Winning fixes everything and forgives everything. Therefore Leo's effort last week was fine because they won. 

Everytime I think you cant out do yourself with horribly stupid takes, you do it.  And I dont even get upset or shake my head or even try to debate it anymore.  It's impressive.

To summarize:  Jets need to stop being losers and have to create a winning culture and how do you accomplish that exactly?  By turning a blind eye to one of your "best players" who gave zero effort on the 1st drive of the game on a play that resulted in a TD because they beat one of the worst teams in Football.  

Down right impressive, my man! 

[flgreen]

LOL

Don't know what it has to do with hating the Jets, and in all honesty Bit your the only one acting butt hurt.

We disagree that it's an "impossible play".  Yeah it's impossible if he's walking while everyone else around him is busting ass, but if he actually runs, a lot can happen with a rookie QB rushing the ball.  A TD run is a big play, if he is stopped there, it changes the game.

If he's not going to hustle while his team mates are busting it he has no business being on the field 95% of the time.  I'd rather have a less talented guy on the field who's putting out every snap, then the  #6 who's casually walking while everyone else is running.  Just me I guess 

[bitonti]

18 minutes ago, JiF said:

To summarize:  Jets need to stop being losers and have to create a winning culture and how do you accomplish that exactly?  

 

By winning. End of statement. 

To summarize the fans want the players to go 100% all the time, no matter what, even when they are 15 yards and a hundred pounds away. Leo recognised the situation before everyone else but his body was never getting to where Josh Allen crossed the goal 

he's 14 weeks into a season where he's playing every damn snap practically. He's got 3 more quarters to play at this point in the game, he's one of the only defenders who can't question the effort

and you never acknowledged the fumble wasn't even part of the play. You are just Leo hating. 

11 minutes ago, flgreen said:

We disagree that it's an "impossible play".  Yeah it's impossible if he's walking while everyone else around him is busting ass, but if he actually runs, a lot can happen with a rookie QB rushing the ball. 

2

"alot can happen" 

he was never getting there. He was super far away from the play 

Leo busts more ass than anyone he plays Linebacker snaps in a DE body 

I'll say it again: Leonard Williams plays 95% of defensive snaps. and this is a thread about how he's not trying hard enough 

and they won 

GTFOH  

[Jetsfan80]

19 minutes ago, JiF said:

To summarize:  Jets need to stop being losers and have to create a winning culture and how do you accomplish that exactly? 

 

Just now, bitonti said:

By winning. End of statement.

 

Brilliant.

[flgreen]

17 minutes ago, bitonti said:

By winning. End of statement. 

To summarize the fans want the players to go 100% all the time, no matter what, even when they are 15 yards and a hundred pounds away. Leo recognised the situation before everyone else but his body was never getting to where Josh Allen crossed the goal 

he's 14 weeks into a season where he's playing every damn snap practically. He's got 3 more quarters to play at this point in the game, he's one of the only defenders who can't question the effort

and you never acknowledged the fumble wasn't even part of the play. You are just Leo hating. 

"alot can happen" 

he was never getting there. He was super far away from the play 

Leo busts more ass than anyone he plays Linebacker snaps in a DE body 

I'll say it again: Leonard Williams plays 95% of defensive snaps. and this is a thread about how he's not trying hard enough 

and they won 

GTFOH  

Look at the picture you posted again, EVERYONE is running, except Leo.   Anderson got a hand in there, another 1/4 step quicker, and maybe Allen stumbles, and Leo finishes off the play  at the 1 or 2.

This is the first drive of the game, Leo shouldn't be gassed.  C'mon he is the ONLY ONE walking.

If I'm the coach of the Jets I re-run this play 10 times,  "This is why we lose"  "this is why we lose" everytime the play rolls.  Of course Leo wants to play for another team if Bowles is fired, another coach might actually demand  he  hustle there.  

Leo has the talent to be a top DL.  This is an example of why he's not.  The fact of, if he can get there, is a moot point.  The big point is he didn't try while every one else did.

[#27TheDominator]

I am with Bit on the perspective being way off in that picture.  Busting his butt would not have helped as faster players didn't get anywhere near and he had to be available in case of a cutback.  Everybody's boy of the week, Neville Hewitt is the one that was super late to recognize the play and then backed into the end zone to get the angle instead of firing up field to make Allen turn inside towards Anderson, Williamson and, to a lesser extent Williams.  Covering running QBs is tough - both when you are 312 lbs and when you are manned up, like Hewitt on the TE.  

I completely disagree with Bit that we can't complain because it was a win.  That kind of thinking brought us 2016.  Yay! We went 10-6 in 2015.  What is there to complain about?  Plenty actually. The Bills sucked.  We trailed all day and barely squeaked by.  Whoop-di-damn-doo. 

[bitonti]

13 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Look at the picture you posted again, EVERYONE is running, except Leo.   Anderson got a hand in there, another 1/4 step quicker, and maybe Allen stumbles, and Leo finishes off the play  at the 1 or 2.

This is the first drive of the game, Leo shouldn't be gassed.  C'mon he is the ONLY ONE walking.

If I'm the coach of the Jets I re-run this play 10 times,  "This is why we lose"  "this is why we lose" everytime the play rolls. 

2

uh coach, we won. 

he's not gassed but he's going to be by the fourth quarter

 

[Peteo]

Playing not to get hurt.  There is no excuse for not giving max effort.  If you are hurt then sit your butt on the bench.

[Matt39]

13 hours ago, jgb said:

 

I hear what you are saying RJF and I agree with you... but the world isn't that simple. When three DLs all high picks lose all motivation, there is a bigger problem. Yes in a perfect world everyone is a self-starter and needs no external motivation. But that isn't true at any job--otherwise why do we need leaders at all?

No ones going to convince Manny Machado to run 90 feet. It is what it is.

[flgreen]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

uh coach, we won. 

he's not gassed but he's going to be by the fourth quarter

 

UH coach LOL,  the Jets won because Darnold pulled some rabbits out of the hat in the 4th quarter not because Leo was walking around, or shoving QB's late.  

[JustInFudge]

45 minutes ago, bitonti said:

By winning. End of statement. 

To summarize the fans want the players to go 100% all the time, no matter what, even when they are 15 yards and a hundred pounds away. Leo recognised the situation before everyone else but his body was never getting to where Josh Allen crossed the goal 

he's 14 weeks into a season where he's playing every damn snap practically. He's got 3 more quarters to play at this point in the game, he's one of the only defenders who can't question the effort

and you never acknowledged the fumble wasn't even part of the play. You are just Leo hating. 

"alot can happen" 

he was never getting there. He was super far away from the play 

Leo busts more ass than anyone he plays Linebacker snaps in a DE body 

I'll say it again: Leonard Williams plays 95% of defensive snaps. and this is a thread about how he's not trying hard enough 

and they won 

GTFOH  

The best way to create a winning culture is to allow your best players to loaf and give zero effort on the field. 

#Bitontilogic

[JustInFudge]

33 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Look at the picture you posted again, EVERYONE is running, except Leo.   Anderson got a hand in there, another 1/4 step quicker, and maybe Allen stumbles, and Leo finishes off the play  at the 1 or 2.

This is the first drive of the game, Leo shouldn't be gassed.  C'mon he is the ONLY ONE walking.

If I'm the coach of the Jets I re-run this play 10 times,  "This is why we lose"  "this is why we lose" everytime the play rolls.  Of course Leo wants to play for another team if Bowles is fired, another coach might actually demand  he  hustle there.  

Leo has the talent to be a top DL.  This is an example of why he's not.  The fact of, if he can get there, is a moot point.  The big point is he didn't try while every one else did.

Yeah but dude, we beat the Bills!

#winning

[JustInFudge]

13 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

No ones going to convince Manny Machado to run 90 feet. It is what it is.

Well, there you have it, since Manny Machado cant be influenced or motivated, nobody can, so why even try?

[JustInFudge]

I love this place.

[Jet Nut]

Just watched the quick reply of the game and they show the play as seen above and then from the EZ.  Leo Ian anywhere near the pls at and it would be impossible to make a play.  A bad camera angle that distorts reality sets people off.  He hustles the whole game fans are fooled so...

[More Cowbell]

23 hours ago, Paradis said:

This is disgusting... how does this team not bench people for this kind of effort?? WHAT IS HAPPENING??

 

 

#ToddGurley 

Hey, Williams was just going along with what so many here have been posting and tried to lose the game. You guys should be happy about this. 

[Paradis]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Just watched the quick reply of the game and they show the play as seen above and then from the EZ.  Leo Ian anywhere near the pls at and it would be impossible to make a play.  A bad camera angle that distorts reality sets people off.  He hustles the whole game fans are fooled so...

meh possibly. I did on the on other hand watch RBs and Allen run through him (a "defensive tackle") like he was swiss cheese. So effort argument aside, he's sloppy and sucks. 

[Matt39]

22 minutes ago, JiF said:

Well, there you have it, since Manny Machado cant be influenced or motivated, nobody can, so why even try?

Hustling/trying isn’t coachable.

[Klecko73isGod]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

Yeah but dude, we beat the Bills!

#winning

Actually, he said you create a winning culture by winning? How come no one associated with the Jets has thought of this brilliant strategy yet?

[Jetsfan80]

52 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Hustling/trying isn’t coachable.

If you're afraid of the consequences for not hustling/trying, its very coachable.  Certainly some guys have an innate to desire to hustle at all times, regardless of coach.  But some other guys need a swift kick in the a$$ at times to get them moving.  Williams (and Wilkerson) seem like the latter type.

Unless of course operant conditioning is not a thing anymore.

[Klecko73isGod]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If you're afraid of the consequences for not hustling/trying, its very coachable.

Unless of course operant conditioning is not a thing anymore.

"You can't coach that" is a comment usually made by a bad color commentator who doesn't understand what he is talking about. 

[MaxAF]

On 12/11/2018 at 12:22 PM, ChuckkieB said:

Any player that doesn't give 100% effort on every play doesn't deserve a roster spot.  This is disgraceful, especially for a top 10 draft pick.  

His angle of pursuit was perfect..... his urgency.... not so much.