Holy.... Sugar. Williams is the new Mo Wilk

[Creepy Lurker]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And trading down only works if you have a pick people want.  No one was trading up for Kevin White. 

Hence, the conversations we've had here about tanking properly.  But when it comes to picking at 6 in that particular draft, I doubt anyone was looking to move up with us.  And if they were, we likely wouldn't have picked up much in the deal.

So it all comes down to who was the correct pick at 6. 

Some teams would move even only a few spots to ensure they grab their top guy. The key is to not follow the draft trade chart completely and to be at least a little flexible.

Teams low ball all the time to put out feelers and It is possible if you don’t hold to “true trade value” too strictly. I find it hard to believe that there weren’t at least inquiries for any of our 1st/2nd round picks from 2015-2017. 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Creepy Lurker said:

Some teams would move even only a few spots to ensure they grab their top guy. The key is to not follow the draft trade chart completely and to be at least a little flexible.

Teams low ball all the time to put out feelers and It is possible if you don’t hold to “true trade value” too strictly. I find it hard to believe that there weren’t at least inquiries for any of our 1st/2nd round picks from 2015-2017.  

No doubt we had to have some trade down opportunities with our picks. 

I just fail to see where there were any legit trade partners in that particular draft.  Sometimes you hear about rumors of potential trades that could have happened after the fact.  I don't recall any similar chatter that year.  Although I do see some stuff about how the Redskins could maybe have traded back from 5, so who knows. 

[Creepy Lurker]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

No doubt we had to have some trade down opportunities with our picks. 

I just fail to see where there were any legit trade partners in that particular draft.  Sometimes you hear about rumors of potential trades that could have happened after the fact.  I don't recall any similar chatter that year.  Although I do see some stuff about how the Redskins could maybe have traded back from 5, so who knows. 

I agree about 2015 but honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if someone traded up a few spots, just for the hell of it and to ensure they got their guy. There are a lot of impulsive idiot GMs in this league.

You give them what is believed to be a better deal based on the draft trade value chart and they make the trade in a heartbeat. Too many trades fall through over ge silliness of sticking to the trade value chart too literally. 

[ZachEY]

54 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this entire thread is an optical illusion. Leonard Williams is nowhere near this play it just looks like he's close because of the camera angle.  

https://imgur.com/a/igSdAtk

to summarize Jets fans are complaining about a 310 DT not getting from the B gap to the numbers.  Aaron Donald doesn't make this play. Hewitt and Henry Anderson are far closer to the action and neither get close. 

I don't blame Leo for not busting his ass to the sidelines he's a gap clogging DE 5-tech he's not a sideline to sideline linebacker 

and by the way, the team won. These threads about effort the day after a win are in stupid taste. Enjoy the victory and drink a tall glass of STFU

Up until the last paragraph, these were my thoughts.  I’m no big fan of Leo, think he’s very average and rarely impactful, but the camera angle undoubtedly makes him look closer than he is.  And frankly, what does any DL look like in the 4th if they’re sprinting after the ball carrier on every play?  I’d be shocked if you couldn’t find tape like this on most.  Hell, where was Adams effort to shed the half-hearted block he’s taken out of the play by?

[bitonti]

55 minutes ago, JiF said:

That's what I said above, it looked like an impossible angle but I and you were wrong.  He could have made a play, especially knowing there was a fumble involved.

You can clearly see, in both images, that Leo 100% pulls up and slows down and gives minimal effort to close the gap.  Look at the final still you posted, Leo is upright not trying, everyone else was in running position closed fists leaning forward giving effort, Allen in on the 8 yard line.  Leo 100% could have got there by the time Allen fumbled. 

there was no fumble. Allen broke the plane before he lost control. Williamson, Hewitt and Anderson were all closer (and faster) than Leo, none could make the play 

Leo saw he couldn't get there and pulled up agreed but he's a pro athlete who knows how fast he can run. 

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

I don’t know about that. I’m not seeing a lot of love for Williams here anymore.I got a lot of grief at the beginning of the year for knocking Leo, and supporting TB. The same way the Viking game made me finally turn on Bowles, I’ve seen a lot of guys finally change their feelings on Leo. You never hear the “double teamed constantly” thing anymore. Most guys here are pretty sharp, and although we may arrive at different times, the majority of us usually get to the same place eventually.

I was knocking Wilkerson 3 years ago. He was slow, rarely chased down a player etc.  yet this management team, to appease the owner and fans, overpays VETS that are marginal at best. 

[bitonti]

10 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Up until the last paragraph, these were my thoughts.  I’m no big fan of Leo, think he’s very average and rarely impactful, but the camera angle undoubtedly makes him look closer than he is.  And frankly, what does any DL look like in the 4th if they’re sprinting after the ball carrier on every play?  I’d be shocked if you couldn’t find tape like this on most.  Hell, where was Adams effort to shed the half-hearted block he’s taken out of the play by?

in general a scrambling QB is one of the hardest things for an NFL defense to shut down, most QBs are smarter than Josh Allen at this point in his career and won't pull it down and run as much. 

this defense has more problems than most stopping running QB and it's because they are a 3-4 with no edge talent. Jenkins is OK but it's like half a defense rn. Lee would have helped too.  

[ZachEY]

43 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Perhaps, but had we moved Wilkerson for a 1st this pick would have looked a LOT better. 

BPA in itself isn't a bad strategy if you aren't completely inept at doing everything else, like at picking in Rounds 2-5 or proactively making smart trades that were pretty obvious to many here. 

BPA is generally nonsense - everyone says the draft is a crapshoot, but also that at every pick there’s a clear cut best available player?  Sure, this doesn’t mean reach for needs, but there’s a mile wide gap between reaching for someone because the team has a whole, and taking a guy you’ve subjectively ranked as slightly better at a low impact and/or unneeded position over a guy ranked just slightly lower that will help your team more.

[Fantasy Island]

2 hours ago, CTM said:

I wonder who the BPITD is that falls to us @5 this year 

we always pick 6, book it.

[joewilly12]

Players have regressed under Todd Bowles there is no denying this how can this moron have a job in the NFL. 

[BurnleyJet]

It's why we need a new GM. No loyalty to players that's been drafted like Leo, who MUST be traded!

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Leonard Williams is a professional athlete and a grown man. Get outta here with this.

lol.  This 100% goes for any work environment right?  Work in a place were everyone dogs it with no consequence and the hard working pro is always  hard working pro.

[Embrace the Suck]

4 hours ago, Paradis said:

This is disgusting... how does this team not bench people for this kind of effort?? WHAT IS HAPPENING??

 

 

#ToddGurley 

Yeah, pluck him and his mega contract. Hopefully the Jets dodge a bullet and let him walk. The Jets best D lineman in years cost a 7th round pick. You don't invest big money in 3-4 linemen unless they are just clearly absolutely non stop dominant which Williams is not.

[RutgersJetFan]

10 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

lol.  This 100% goes for any work environment right?  Work in a place were everyone dogs it with no consequence and the hard working pro is always  hard working pro.

Professionals are responsible for their profession. This isn't very difficult to comprehend.

[Matt39]

You old boomers expecting professional athletes to hustle.

[T0mShane]

It’s a bad team with a permissive, consequence-Free locker room culture with a dead coach. Leonard didn’t hustle there, and he’s been inconsequential otherwise. The only reason you pay him his $14 million dollars for next year is to justify picking him in the first place and because you’re going to let Darron Lee walk the year after. Just an absolute disaster of drafting ineptitude. 

[BurnleyJet]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

It’s a bad team with a permissive, consequence-Free locker room culture with a dead coach. Leonard didn’t hustle there, and he’s been inconsequential otherwise. The only reason you pay him his $14 million dollars for next year is to justify picking him in the first place and because you’re going to let Darron Lee walk the year after. Just an absolute disaster of drafting ineptitude. 

Nailed it, No way Leo dogs it if he plays for the Pat's. It's why the GM as to go to.

[JetFaninMI]

5 hours ago, sourceworx said:

He's been on a losing team his entire pro career. It's taken its toll.

Bullsh*t. The guy was a top 10 pick and is playing like a 6th rounder playing out the string. I have not much love for Adams but at least he shows up. These jags could take a lesson from that guy with the big mouth.

[Sonny Werblin]

So, over the past 4 years Mac is now basically batting 50% on first round picks; 33% in the second round; 25% in the third round; and 25% in the fourth round. He is not good at his job.

[Creepy Lurker]

3 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

So, over the past 4 years Mac is now basically batting 50% on first round picks; 33% in the second round; 25% in the third round; and 25% in the fourth round. He is not good at his job.

Could the bar be any lower for a GM to get the opportunity to stick around? 

[Reynolds1029]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

It’s a bad team with a permissive, consequence-Free locker room culture with a dead coach. Leonard didn’t hustle there, and he’s been inconsequential otherwise. The only reason you pay him his $14 million dollars for next year is to justify picking him in the first place and because you’re going to let Darron Lee walk the year after. Just an absolute disaster of drafting ineptitude. 

But this team has seen worse in the drafting Dept.

[Jetmech]

Unfortunately the safe pick at the time has basically turned into just that.

He is not a transcending player, a player the Jets have needed for years on defense...

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[Ken Schroy]

Something we at least suspected is confirmed. However, he didn't cash in like Mo and play like a dog the next day. He decided to play like a dog in his option year. Not too bright.

[Integrity28]

11 minutes ago, Ken Shroy said:

Something we at least suspected is confirmed. However, he didn't cash in like Mo and play like a dog the next day. He decided to play like a dog in his option year. Not too bright.

He doesn't want to be here. He's doing exactly what Amari Cooper did to get out of Oakland. We are the east coast version of Oakland. 

Eff him, but at the same time if you believe in cause and effect, it's more the fault of the putzes in charge.

[Jetpain]

In Leo's defense, Do we have any of the video of him being unblock able in training camp?       Leo comes across as a guy who does not love football.  Seems like the type that would love to be out of NY and play on west coast closer to home.  

[jgb]

Three stud DLs turded out now under Bowles. He couldn’t motivate Harvey Weinstein at a whorehouse.

 

[VinnyT16]

8 hours ago, Beerfish said:

This is 90 % on todd bowles.

Tough to blame Leo when he has watched slobs like mowilk and shle rich get away with everything, then there is revis and the other motley crew.

This team has never had any accountability at all under fake tough guy bowles.  The sooner we lose that clown the better.

His coaching malaise started even in  year one but even worse in year two when guys like mo and shel were given multiple away with permissions from off season works and such.

Say what you want about Sheldon, but that guy always gave effort on the field.

[carlito1171]

7 hours ago, BallinPB said:

Whoa whoa whoa.  At least Leo is showing his true colors before the Jets gave him money.  Mo Wilk robbed the Jets blind.  

At least Mo had multiple double digit sack seasons....

Leo is just looking like a player who will never develop that nasty interior pass rush(which is what you’re looking for if you’re taking at DT in the top 10)...and is starting to dog it on the field like Mo on top of it! 

might be time to start working the phones while teams still think maybe they have a chance to do something with him...

[flgreen]

6 hours ago, bitonti said:

this entire thread is an optical illusion. Leonard Williams is nowhere near this play it just looks like he's close because of the camera angle.  

https://imgur.com/a/igSdAtk

to summarize Jets fans are complaining about a 310 DT not getting from the B gap to the numbers.  Aaron Donald doesn't make this play. Hewitt and Henry Anderson are far closer to the action and neither get close. 

I don't blame Leo for not busting his ass to the sidelines he's a gap clogging DE 5-tech he's not a sideline to sideline linebacker 

and by the way, the team won. These threads about effort the day after a win are in stupid taste. Enjoy the victory and drink a tall glass of STFU

If you look at the final frame that you posted, yes, Leo's out of the play.  He's out of the play because he's already walking straight up.  Where would he be if he was running, like every outer person in the picture is?  including the ref. 

Yeah I think the kid's paid to be running hard there.  Everybody else in the picture seems to think so to.

[jgb]

8 hours ago, Beerfish said:

This is 90 % on todd bowles.

Tough to blame Leo when he has watched slobs like mowilk and shle rich get away with everything, then there is revis and the other motley crew.

This team has never had any accountability at all under fake tough guy bowles.  The sooner we lose that clown the better.

His coaching malaise started even in  year one but even worse in year two when guys like mo and shel were given multiple away with permissions from off season works and such.

 

6 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Leonard Williams is a professional athlete and a grown man. Get outta here with this.

I hear what you are saying RJF and I agree with you... but the world isn't that simple. When three DLs all high picks lose all motivation, there is a bigger problem. Yes in a perfect world everyone is a self-starter and needs no external motivation. But that isn't true at any job--otherwise why do we need leaders at all?

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

This dog won't hunt.  Hasn't played with heart or fire since half-way through his rookie season.   His specialties are celebrating plays made by others,  working  the crowd and standing around the pile after a play, hands on hips.  Posts on his less than impressive physical appearance fail to mention his pencil thin arms.  Yet the "experts" still sing his praises,  cite the non-existent double teams that prevent him from making any plays and talk about better days to come when he has some help.  EXTEND HIM?  NO thanks. send this DOG back to the pound.  he is just a kitty cat.

[RutgersJetFan]

24 minutes ago, jgb said:

 

I hear what you are saying RJF and I agree with you... but the world isn't that simple. When three DLs all high picks lose all motivation, there is a bigger problem. Yes in a perfect world everyone is a self-starter and needs no external motivation. But that isn't true at any job--otherwise why do we need leaders at all?

Because it’s too general of a narrative. Todd Bowles has 8 billion responsibilities per week. Most of them painstakingly administrative and bureaucratic. I realize that we all like to believe that coaching is like what Al Pacino does in Any Given Sunday but reality is sans the QB head coaches have little time to devote to each and every guy. It’s not a head coach’s job to motivate guys who get paid to do their job to do their job. Jets fans, including myself, have been singing this narrative of motivation and playcalling and route trees since Parcells about every single guy but maybe the answer is a lot simpler than that and the players just aren’t very good. 

[RobR]

12 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Because it’s too general of a narrative. Todd Bowles has 8 billion responsibilities per week. Most of them painstakingly administrative and bureaucratic. I realize that we all like to believe that coaching is like what Al Pacino does in Any Given Sunday but reality is sans the QB head coaches have little time to devote to each and every guy. It’s not a head coach’s job to motivate guys who get paid to do their job to do their job. Jets fans, including myself, have been singing this narrative of motivation and playcalling and route trees since Parcells about every single guy but maybe the answer is a lot simpler than that and the players just aren’t very good. 

It is the head coaches job to get his entire team motivated. He does that by disciplining players, benching them and not rewarding them with captaincy a week or two after. I'd also hope behind closed doors he calls them out.

If you're dogging it as a player week after week and nothing changes.....well that is entirely on the coach. 

[ComfortablyNumb]

He doesn’t love the game enough. California kid that loves to skateboard, collect reptiles, go to edm concerts......


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[STLuLu]

10 hours ago, sourceworx said:

He's been on a losing team his entire pro career. It's taken its toll.

It should be taking a toll considering he has played a big part in all the losing.