Film Room: Sam Darnold's outside of the pocket nastiness.

[Villain The Foe]

Just imagine getting this guy a pro caliber offensive line. 

 

[32EBoozer]

BOING!!!! Thanks for that

[Adoni Beast]

I really hope we can trade down and add a LT and C in first two rounds.

People aren’t as high on Jonah Williams and “project” him as a guard, but I still think he’s be great at LT. 4 year starter, dominated against elite rushers.

People keep pointing to one or two plays on film. I seem to remember Quentin Nelson getting pancaked by our own Leo Williams. Means nothing. Nelson’s a monster and Jonah can be a very good player for a decade.

Sam on the move, in the pocket, with time, in this offense will slice up defenses.

[Ken Schroy]

39 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Just imagine getting this guy a pro caliber offensive line. 

 

Nicely done, I enjoyed that.

[Villain The Foe]

2 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

I really hope we can trade down and add a LT and C in first two rounds.

People aren’t as high on Jonah Williams and “project” him as a guard, but I still think he’s be great at LT. 4 year starter, dominated against elite rushers.

People keep pointing to one or two plays on film. I seem to remember Quentin Nelson getting pancaked by our own Leo Williams. Means nothing. Nelson’s a monster and Jonah can be a very good player for a decade.

Sam on the move, in the pocket, with time, in this offense will slice up defenses.

I would take Jonah Williams or Andre Dillard. I also heard that Jonah has an impeccable study routine. He documents and keeps film on all of his match up opponents. I heard Williams has a legit love for the game and the offensive line in general.

I also want that trade down for a OT and C. Even if the Tackle is pushed inside, so be it. It's not like Winters is a great guard anyway. He would be great depth though.

I would have no problem with that, and once Beachum is gone we already have our guy that we can kick outside, or if he's just phenomenal as a Guard then draft another Tackle.

This organization needs to do everything it its power to get a top 5/top 10 Oline and atleast one transformative pass catcher. 

[Villain The Foe]

17 minutes ago, Ken Shroy said:

Nicely done, I enjoyed that.

I did too. You're welcome. Sam does look like he has that "it" to his game. I love breakdowns like this.

[k-met57]

2 things i took away from this video...

1. thats my QB

2. McGuire dropped a bunch of passes that Bell wont

[BCJet]

God Winter is terrible.

Im not worried about Beachem as much as most people are, Id rather see us find a legit center and future (or current) RG who isnt constantly whiffing on blocks and getting pushed so far back.  Beachem with Osmele next to him will be more then fine.

Gase should be downright giddy with what he has on this offense, the upgrade to Sam from Tannenhill won't truly be recognized until Sam has a Jared Goff type year 2 which he will.  Defenses have to play the entire field against us due to Sam's ability to throw going left, which is an enormous advantage.  Going to be a great season.

[Drums]

❤️

I don't care about the stats, the o-line was pretty bad. And if you noticed watching that, most of the throws are to Herndon and Anderson. WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO GET RID OF ROBBY? Keep them forever and add more-- like Mac did this offseason. I'm in favor of adding one of the big name TEs from this draft if we trade back, especially if they can block and catch. 2 birds, 1 stone. Then go after o-line and a big WR.

This video makes me happy. I went back and watched the Texans game again last week-- definitely his best game in my opinion, even though we lost. I don't think you can really game plan much against a player that makes stuff happen unscripted. 

[CTM]

Darnold is a lot of fun to watch and would excel on the sandlot, but to be a top pro QB hes got to get better at efficiently running an offense on schedule and in the pocket. This other stuff is gravy.

The top QB's of the past 20 years(Brees, Manning, Brady)  do that with deadly consistancy.

[static14]

Watching this stuff gives me such hope for where we’re heading.  excited for this season. 

[Drums]

12 minutes ago, CTM said:

Darnold is a lot of fun to watch and would excel on the sandlot, but to be a top pro QB hes got to get better at efficiently running an offense on schedule and in the pocket. This other stuff is gravy.

The top QB's of the past 20 years(Brees, Manning, Brady)  do that with deadly consistancy.

 What about Big Ben? The guys you mentioned are all statues and all had/have great offensive lines for the most part. Don't you think Darnold was doing what he had to do? 

[Barry McCockinner]

Hopefully he never has to rely on Elijah F'n McGuire as a safety net again. Dude is terrible.

[HelenOfTroy]

15 minutes ago, CTM said:

Darnold is a lot of fun to watch and would excel on the sandlot, but to be a top pro QB hes got to get better at efficiently running an offense on schedule and in the pocket. This other stuff is gravy.

The top QB's of the past 20 years(Brees, Manning, Brady)  do that with deadly consistancy.

Get him a decent offensive line, and he can be just that - plus competent coaching, which is something he hasn’t had since HS.  

If you can’t see that he had to compensate for deficiencies on the line, and depend on his awareness  to escape the pocket to make a play or not get killed, don’t know what to tell you.  He HAD to improvise too much.  How did the veteran Josh McCowan do while Sam was out?  

Even with all the deficiencies in coaching and offensive weapons at USC, he never had to scramble as much as in his rookie year with the Jets.  

[CTM]

13 minutes ago, Drums said:

 What about Big Ben? The guys you mentioned are all statues and all had/have great offensive lines for the most part. Don't you think Darnold was doing what he had to do? 

I'm saying that Darnold excels at the hero ball stuff and I get the appeal, but he needs to get better at the monotony of the position to be a top tier player 

[The Crusher]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Just imagine getting this guy a pro caliber offensive line. 

 

Holy crap that was good. 100% can see how you can watch that and be more worried about the line than excited by Sam though. 

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, CTM said:

I'm saying that Darnold excels at the hero ball stuff and I get the appeal, but he needs to get better at the monotony of the position to be a top tier player 

He is also younger than the average chick you date, so...

[CTM]

5 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

Get him a decent offensive line, and he can be just that - plus competent coaching, which is something he hasn’t had since HS.  

If you can’t see that he had to compensate for deficiencies on the line, and depend on his awareness  to escape the pocket to make a play or not get killed, don’t know what to tell you.  He HAD to improvise too much.  How did the veteran Josh McCowan do while Sam was out?  

Even with all the deficiencies in coaching and offensive weapons at USC, he never had to scramble as much as in his rookie year with the Jets.  

How did Mcnown do the year before, how did Sam do his last year in college, how do you think Sam can excel at the learned by countless repetitions portion of the position after what 4 years on the job whereas the other guys have 2x+ the time.

Sam is a gifted improviser, all I'm saying is it takes more than that to be a top player. I dont really understand how that is even a remotely controversial thing to say.

 

[Patriot Killa]

43 minutes ago, CTM said:

Darnold is a lot of fun to watch and would excel on the sandlot, but to be a top pro QB hes got to get better at efficiently running an offense on schedule and in the pocket. This other stuff is gravy.

The top QB's of the past 20 years(Brees, Manning, Brady)  do that with deadly consistancy.

As much as I agree with this, one thing I noticed in this video is how quick the pocket collapses as soon as the ball is snapped. 

Whether it’s the tackles or guards getting blown off the ball, Sam is actually having to automatically bail out of the pocket and make a throw just to stay alive.

a new OL is going to have him more settled next year...add that with a year of experience under his belt and better players..I think you’ll see a smoother run offense.

[flgreen]

11 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

Get him a decent offensive line, and he can be just that - plus competent coaching, which is something he hasn’t had since HS.  

If you can’t see that he had to compensate for deficiencies on the line, and depend on his awareness  to escape the pocket to make a play or not get killed, don’t know what to tell you.  He HAD to improvise too much.  How did the veteran Josh McCowan do while Sam was out?  

Even with all the deficiencies in coaching and offensive weapons at USC, he never had to scramble as much as in his rookie year with the Jets.  

The cavalry is on the way.

  

[Jetworks]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I would take Jonah Williams or Andre Dillard. I also heard that Jonah has an impeccable study routine. He documents and keeps film on all of his match up opponents. I heard Williams has a legit love for the game and the offensive line in general.

I also want that trade down for a OT and C. Even if the Tackle is pushed inside, so be it. It's not like Winters is a great guard anyway. He would be great depth though.

I would have no problem with that, and once Beachum is gone we already have our guy that we can kick outside, or if he's just phenomenal as a Guard then draft another Tackle.

This organization needs to do everything it its power to get a top 5/top 10 Oline and atleast one transformative pass catcher. 

Great watching Darnold do what he did in that video, it's really impressive.

The same can't be said for that interior OL. Long was absolutely ghastly last season. There was so little effort on a few of those plays that I'm surprised he didn't get punched by someone in the film sessions. At least Winters had his try-hard pants on, so you can occasionally overlook his shortcomings. Could you imagine how bad it would've been if Darnold was a classic pocket passer? He probably would have found himself on IR. 

[HelenOfTroy]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

How did Mcnown do the year before, how did Sam do his last year in college, how do you think Sam can excel at the learned by countless repetitions portion of the position after what 4 years on the job whereas the other guys have 2x+ the time.

Sam is a gifted improviser, all I'm saying is it takes more than that to be a top player. I dont really understand how that is even a remotely controversial thing to say.

 

You will always find the negative on any post that highlights something positive concerning Sam.  I get it, Sam was never your choice, yet Villain, the huge Baker fan, can find the positive and get the fact Sam is young, and has an innate, special gift that he can build on.  

Sam improves his throwing motion before the draft, many pundits stating it is a difficult adjustment.  Fixed the fumbling issue....but he’ll always be a gunslinger and make those dangerous throws, but I have faith with coaching and growing familiarity with his weapons - and yes he has them, the INTs will also be cut down.  

2017 at USC he had 9 interceptions to 31 touchdowns, in his 2018 season at SC he lost 3 starting offensive linemen, and mostly true freshmen weapons.  Sam will always have interceptions, and turn around and make spectacular plays that make you forget the bad throws.  

You’re stuck with Sam, too bad, but you’ll find comfort that he will always have weaknesses to his game you can focus on.  Enjoy, ‘cause there is nothing you can do about it.

@Villain The Foe thank you for the video, you’re a good guy!

[Drums]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

I'm saying that Darnold excels at the hero ball stuff and I get the appeal, but he needs to get better at the monotony of the position to be a top tier player 

True, but I understand why he couldn't be that guy often-- lack of WRs that could get open without the unscripted stuff (after Robby and Herndon we had no one due to injuries), plus a bad o-line. I think Darnold is already good in the pocket and with a better o-line and the guys we have added (Bell for example), he will be better at that, too.

[Greenbloodblitz]

That was a great watch! I really hope this kid settles down and becomes a leader. Although he was running for his life last year he still made a lot of impressive throws. I hope nothing but the best for our Young quarterback.

[BCJet]

2 hours ago, CTM said:

Darnold is a lot of fun to watch and would excel on the sandlot, but to be a top pro QB hes got to get better at efficiently running an offense on schedule and in the pocket. This other stuff is gravy.

The top QB's of the past 20 years(Brees, Manning, Brady)  do that with deadly consistancy.

You realize that he has had 4 years of starting experience at any level in his ENTIRE LIFE.  This isnt Peyton or some other top recruit who started 3 years in HS and then 3/4 in college.  He started one season in HS, 2 in college and came in as a 21 year old and had the season we all saw last year.   Baker had double the starting experience stepping into opening day last year.

Running an offense is the easy part, accurately hitting your 3rd read, while escaping the pocket behind a terrible line with Eli McGuire in the backfield is the part that most QBs never get.

[Patriot Killa]

51 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

You will always find the negative on any post that highlights something positive concerning Sam.  I get it, Sam was never your choice, yet Villain, the huge Baker fan, can find the positive and get the fact Sam is young, and has an innate, special gift that he can build on.  

Sam improves his throwing motion before the draft, many pundits stating it is a difficult adjustment.  Fixed the fumbling issue....but he’ll always be a gunslinger and make those dangerous throws, but I have faith with coaching and growing familiarity with his weapons - and yes he has them, the INTs will also be cut down.  

2017 at USC he had 9 interceptions to 31 touchdowns, in his 2018 season at SC he lost 3 starting offensive linemen, and mostly true freshmen weapons.  Sam will always have interceptions, and turn around and make spectacular plays that make you forget the bad throws.  

You’re stuck with Sam, too bad, but you’ll find comfort that he will always have weaknesses to his game you can focus on.  Enjoy, ‘cause there is nothing you can do about it.

@Villain The Foe thank you for the video, you’re a good guy!

As much as @CTM and I disagree, I have to say, he had a very valid point. Darnold needs to master the art of killing a defense from the pocket. Obviously this is a video that isolates his ability to throw outside of the pocket but the fact remains, he had to bail early and often in a lot of games last season. I’m not saying it’s all his fault or even some of his fault. Idk. I know he had a terrible OL and that had an impact on the result but Darnold can take a step forward by hanging in the pocket and delivering strikes consistently.

you guys are killing CTM for asking Sam to meet a reasonable standard next year....oh and villain is a very good poster but the excessive blowing of him is suspect lolol.

[Beerfish]

His oline will only be as good for him as his gifts are for them.

I mean one of the worst olines in football who nearly got the kid killed on a weekly basis turned up their noses at his personalized BBQ gear for them last year, 

I think they were expecting a new hummer each.

[14 in Green]

We have every reason to be optimistic about the kid.

He got through a rough start, showed the toughness I wanted to see when he bounced back after the injury/benching (which I think was the best thing for him. He desperately needed a break).

Nobody can say we made it easy for him. The combination of coaching, OL play, and lack of skill players on offense contributed to his bad stats. That said, very few top rated QB prospects are drafted into a perfect situation, and Sam made his share of bad plays also..

This year is the one where the training wheels come off, and the stakes get higher. The Jets have a HC who has made his bones working with QBs, and he has plenty of weapons around him.

In this new era of young QBs being thrown right into the fire, the 1st year is usually a tough one, but it seems the ones who are the real deal show that they are in their 2nd year. That’s what Darnold has to, and I think will do.

[HelenOfTroy]

4 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

As much as @CTM and I disagree, I have to say, he had a very valid point. Darnold needs to master the art of killing a defense from the pocket. Obviously this is a video that isolates his ability to throw outside of the pocket but the fact remains, he had to bail early and often in a lot of games last season. I’m not saying it’s all his fault or even some of his fault. Idk. I know he had a terrible OL and that had an impact on the result but Darnold can take a step forward by hanging in the pocket and delivering strikes consistently.

you guys are killing CTM for asking Sam to meet a reasonable standard next year....oh and villain is a very good poster but the excessive blowing of him is suspect lolol.

There is no debating what you’re saying, it’s simply some people will always focus on the negative, always....three or four years into a career, then bitch and focus on what he should be doing and failing at.  Just hard to take anyone seriously that constantly focus on negatives.  Every QB has their weaknesses, and there are also QBs that change the game and how it’s played.

Give a young QB time to realize and improve their weaknesses, and rather y’all like it or not, you drafted a young QB who never played in the 7 on 7 circuit in HS, never had  private QB coaches (till before the draft) because he played multiple sports, and is fairly new to the QB position.  He has a lot of the linebacker/TE and basketball player mentality and skills he utilized that the coaches will have to change to their or the fans liking, or you move on.  

It’s not like these QBs can’t find success elsewhere - like Fauve and Steve Young, Drew Brees (examples only) who had to leave the franchise that drafted them to find success elsewhere.

[The Crusher]

16 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

As much as @CTM and I disagree, I have to say, he had a very valid point. Darnold needs to master the art of killing a defense from the pocket. Obviously this is a video that isolates his ability to throw outside of the pocket but the fact remains, he had to bail early and often in a lot of games last season. I’m not saying it’s all his fault or even some of his fault. Idk. I know he had a terrible OL and that had an impact on the result but Darnold can take a step forward by hanging in the pocket and delivering strikes consistently.

you guys are killing CTM for asking Sam to meet a reasonable standard next year....oh and villain is a very good poster but the excessive blowing of him is suspect lolol.

I assume as soon as he consistently has a pocket he can start learning to play out of one. 

[CTM]

1 hour ago, HelenOfTroy said:

You will always find the negative on any post that highlights something positive concerning Sam.  I get it, Sam was never your choice, yet Villain, the huge Baker fan, can find the positive and get the fact Sam is young, and has an innate, special gift that he can build on.  

Sam improves his throwing motion before the draft, many pundits stating it is a difficult adjustment.  Fixed the fumbling issue....but he’ll always be a gunslinger and make those dangerous throws, but I have faith with coaching and growing familiarity with his weapons - and yes he has them, the INTs will also be cut down.  

2017 at USC he had 9 interceptions to 31 touchdowns, in his 2018 season at SC he lost 3 starting offensive linemen, and mostly true freshmen weapons.  Sam will always have interceptions, and turn around and make spectacular plays that make you forget the bad throws.  

You’re stuck with Sam, too bad, but you’ll find comfort that he will always have weaknesses to his game you can focus on.  Enjoy, ‘cause there is nothing you can do about it.

@Villain The Foe thank you for the video, you’re a good guy!

Lol, I'm not anti Sam. I like watching him play and am happy we have him. You will not understand this as a Sam fan but as a Jets fan I am not so willing to buy into the idea that Sam's amazing, the rest of the team is terrible and Sams poor statistics are a direct result of the latter rather than any improvement Sam needs to make.

Go be triggered elsewhere 

[CTM]

37 minutes ago, BCJet said:

You realize that he has had 4 years of starting experience at any level in his ENTIRE LIFE.  This isnt Peyton or some other top recruit who started 3 years in HS and then 3/4 in college.  He started one season in HS, 2 in college and came in as a 21 year old and had the season we all saw last year.   Baker had double the starting experience stepping into opening day last year.

Running an offense is the easy part, accurately hitting your 3rd read, while escaping the pocket behind a terrible line with Eli McGuire in the backfield is the part that most QBs never get.

The bolded is exactly my point.

And if running an offense is the easy part why doesnt every team have a Brees or Brady? Its incredibly difficult to make it look as easy as those guys do. Out of the thousands of QB's out there now only a minuscule percent are able to it

[CTM]

2 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

As much as I agree with this, one thing I noticed in this video is how quick the pocket collapses as soon as the ball is snapped. 

 

This is a curated collection of clips where the pocket just does that though. 

[HelenOfTroy]

4 minutes ago, CTM said:

Lol, I'm not anti Sam. I like watching him play and am happy we have him. You will not understand this as a Sam fan but as a Jets fan I am not so willing to buy into the idea that Sam's amazing, the rest of the team is terrible and Sams poor statistics are a direct result of the latter rather than any improvement Sam needs to make.

Go be triggered elsewhere 

You don’t have to be a Sam fan, or a Jets fan to realize a rookie is going to bring some strengths and plenty of weaknesses to his game in a rookie season in the NFL.  Sam for the most part, was not amazing, nor was the rest of the team and coaching with few exceptions.  Blind leading the blind, only one is the center piece of the football team.

Nope, I’ll stay triggered here, nothing you can do about it - take the cowards way with Butt fumbles, or speak your mind like a man.  I’m not afraid to go toe to toe with you.  Fight On!  ?

[14 in Green]

2 minutes ago, CTM said:

Lol, I'm not anti Sam. I like watching him play and am happy we have him. You will not understand this as a Sam fan but as a Jets fan I am not so willing to buy into the idea that Sam's amazing, the rest of the team is terrible and Sams poor statistics are a direct result of the latter rather than any improvement Sam needs to make.

Go be triggered elsewhere 

Nobody who looks at this stuff objectively thinks you’re “anti Sam”. God forbid, ?.

The only ones who would are USC pep squad lady who judges a poster by how she gauges their Darnold love, and a few other Sam ball washers.