Colin Cowherd killing the Giants for the Judge hire

[slimjasi]

Just now, jgb said:

Yeah I look at the big picture. I’m a deep thinker like that.

oh ok. Big thinker. Gotcha

[jgb]

14 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

oh ok. Big thinker. Gotcha

Good to see come around. Hope for you yet.

[RoadFan]

5 hours ago, section314 said:

Cowherd ever hear of Bill O'Brien and Mike Vrabel? They're doing ok. Or Flores, the guy who got 5 wins out of the Dolphins, and held the great McDaniels O in check? Cowherd is a tool of the highest order.

Vrabel is a very good coach.

Bill O'Brien is a dunce.

[isired]

Cowherd ever hear of Bill O'Brien and Mike Vrabel? They're doing ok. Or Flores, the guy who got 5 wins out of the Dolphins, and held the great McDaniels O in check? Cowherd is a tool of the highest order.

Vrabel is hardly a part of Belichicks 'tree' - he was never on a Belichick staff, didn't even talk to him between 2009 and 2016 after he was released, while he was starting his coaching career. He spent a few years as LB coach under O'Brien.

I think McDaniels will never be a great HC, but as much as it pains me to say, Judge feels different.

[Lupz27]

It’s probably been said somewhere in another thread if not this one, but I wouldn’t be completely shocked if this was a hold the fort till Bill can weasel his way out his deal.

[HessStation]

6 hours ago, Maxman said:

2018 Miami Dolphins 7 and 9

2018 New York Jets 4 and 12

 

2019 Miami Dolphins 5 and 11

2019 New York Jets 7 and 9

 

Yet everyone is saying Adam Gase is terrible and Brian Flores is amazing. This all has to play out, but writing off Gase when the Jets went 6 and 2 down the stretch isn't giving the guy enough rope imo.

Worst as in dead last Offense in the league for an offensive minded head coach with a top 3 QB prospect. There’s nothing to be excited about at this point 

[jetstream23]

1 minute ago, HessStation said:

Worst as in dead last Offense in the league for an offensive minded head coach with a top 3 QB prospect. There’s nothing to be excited about at this point 

A team with a dead last offense shouldn't win 3 games in this league, let alone 7.  Gase is the HC of a team that is literally talentless on offense.  A team that couldn't pass the ball because it couldn't protect it's QB and had no WRs that really scared anyone.  A team who has one of the NFL's Top 5 RBs of the past several years and he was dead last in average yards before contact because he could barely get to the LOS at times before being surrounded by 3 defenders.

The team has 3 human beings could possibly start for other NFL teams....Darnold (on maybe 5-10 teams), Bell (on maybe 15-20) and Robby Anderson (as a WR2 on maybe 15-20 NFL teams).  That.is.it.  How do you win 7 games with that?

[Big_Slick]

7 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Heard it on the radio but if anyone has a link that would be great.  A few points I recall...

• Giants made a panic move after Rhule was hired.  In a big market like New York where the media and fanbase perception matters, the hire may have been rushed to look like they were making an active decision in not choosing Rhule.  They weren't.  The Panthers hired the guy the Giants wanted, the hottest name in college football whose one season in the NFL was with the Giants.  Think about it, why hurry up to announce Joe Judge an hour after the Rhule announcement was made?  If Judge really was their guy why not ink him after all your interviews were done, including with Matt Rhule.....Was there competition for this Special Teams guy from New England?  Was Judge the hot commodity who was about to get away to someplace like Cleveland?  No.  He was a fallback option.  Judge would have still been there on Thursday after the Giants had concluded all of their interviews.
• Gettleman wants a guy he can control, a guy who will be indebted to him for giving him his first Head Coach job.  McDaniels would have been a threat and pushed back on Gettleman basically saying, "I've won multiple Super Bowls, what have you guys won?  I'm going to decide how we do things here."  As Cowherd says, A+ students hang with A+ students.  'A' guys hire 'A' guys. 'B' guys like Gettleman hire 'C' guys who they can appear smarter than.  It's one of the reasons John Dorsey had Kitchens in place instead of a stronger-willed personality like Gregg Williams.  And think about Cleveland, essentially all of Baker Mayfield's advocates in that building (Dorsey who had conviction to draft him #1, Kitchens who Baker lobbied for as HC) are now gone.
• Guys like McCarthy and Rivera didn't even want to talk to the Giants because of Gettleman.  Instead, they're going to the same division to coach the Cowboys and Redskins because they WANT to face the Giants twice per year.
• Regarding Judge, Cowherd says to look at Belichick's coaching tree.  Guys don't have success when they leave (Charlie Weiss, Crennel as a HC, Mangini, etc.).  Judge may not be any different because being near a genius for 8 years doesn't automatically turn you into a genius.  Cowherd says he could spend a decade working with Elon Musk, it wouldn't make him smart enough to create an innovative company and change the world.  Belichick is a genius and control guy, not a mentor or teacher......that's the difference with someone like Andy Reid whose assistants have gone on to better success in the NFL, guys like Doug Pederson, Frank Reich, etc.

Cowherd made a very convincing argument that the Giants have egg on their face over this whole search, especially in a year when there really wasn't a ton of competition or a lot of HC openings as compared to other seasons (5 this year, 7 last year).  And, in a division where two other teams hired their coaches before you did you became the bridesmaid and not the bride.  In an offseason where two division foes hire two experienced coaches that have taken teams to the Super Bowl and you lost out on the thee hot name in the college coaching ranks, you end up hiring a Coordinator from the Patriots....and it's not even Josh McDaniels. Cowherd was killing them.

Gettlaman is an anchor around the Gint's team. Looking forward to seeing this POS guide them to the bottom of the ocean. RB at #2 and Danny fumbles at #6 - LOL.

Gettleman gives boomers a bad name.

[slimjasi]

5 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

A team with a dead last offense shouldn't win 3 games in this league, let alone 7.  Gase is the HC of a team that is literally talentless on offense.  A team that couldn't pass the ball because it couldn't protect it's QB and had no WRs that really scared anyone.  A team who has one of the NFL's Top 5 RBs of the past several years and he was dead last in average yards before contact because he could barely get to the LOS at times before being surrounded by 3 defenders.

The team has 3 human beings could possibly start for other NFL teams....Darnold (on maybe 5-10 teams), Bell (on maybe 15-20) and Robby Anderson (as a WR2 on maybe 15-20 NFL teams).  That.is.it.  How do you win 7 games with that?

I think you are forgetting Crowder (he'd be a good slot guy on a lot of teams), but I completely agree with all of this. 

People still underestimate how bad our offensive line is. 

We averaged 0.7 rushing yards before contact per attempt. That is insanely bad. We need a minimum of 3 new starting OL. At a minimum, I think we need to replace both guards and one of the tackles. 

I think Robby is a nice WR, but we absolutely need another good young WR to complement him. 

[jetstream23]

Just now, slimjasi said:

I think you are forgetting Crowder (he'd be a good slot guy on a lot of teams), but I completely agree with all of this. 

People still underestimate how bad our offensive line is. 

We averaged 0.7 rushing yards before contact per attempt. That is insanely bad. We need a minimum of 3 new starting OL. At a minimum, I think we need to replace both guards and one of the tackles. 

I think Robby is a nice WR, but we absolutely need another good young WR to complement him. 

You're right, I absolutely forgot about him.  He'd start in the slot on many/most teams.

[Patriot Killa]

7 hours ago, peebag said:

I still don't get the love fest for Josh McDaniels.

Me either, he failed miserably on his own in Denver and couldn’t handle the locker room personalities like Cutler and Marshall.

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, HessStation said:

Worst as in dead last Offense in the league for an offensive minded head coach with a top 3 QB prospect. There’s nothing to be excited about at this point 

I'm excited for the home playoff game I'll be attending next year.

[Jetsfan80]

Cowherd is as much as a blow hard as the rest of these TV analysts/sport show voices.
just because he likes Sam Darnold doesn’t make him any less mediocre.

Him liking Sam only made me worry.

[Jetsfan80]

2018 Miami Dolphins 7 and 9
2018 New York Jets 4 and 12
 
2019 Miami Dolphins 5 and 11
2019 New York Jets 7 and 9
 
Yet everyone is saying Adam Gase is terrible and Brian Flores is amazing. This all has to play out, but writing off Gase when the Jets went 6 and 2 down the stretch isn't giving the guy enough rope imo.

The Dolphins front office was trying to lose.

[Dcat]

9 hours ago, Maxta_p said:

The giants were already in negotiations with judge yesterday. They cancelled their interview with Rhule because they knew they were hiring Judge

This is the narrative the Giants would like everyone to believe. The reality is the Vagiants wouldn't match the the offer he got from Carolina (an offer he couldn't refuse and one the giants had to refuse .... because it is absurd for an inexperienced college HC).  

[Jetsfan80]

7 hours ago, Dcat said:

This is the narrative the Giants would like everyone to believe. The reality is the Vagiants wouldn't match the the offer he got from Carolina (an offer he couldn't refuse and one the giants had to refuse .... because it is absurd for an inexperienced college HC).  

There's no salary cap for coaches.  I've never understood why a team would pinch pennies when hiring an HC.  The Jets have seemingly been doing that for years under the Johnson's.  

[Legend Killa7]

7 hours ago, Dcat said:

This is the narrative the Giants would like everyone to believe. The reality is the Vagiants wouldn't match the the offer he got from Carolina (an offer he couldn't refuse and one the giants had to refuse .... because it is absurd for an inexperienced college HC).  

exactly.  the vagiants panicked.  enough said.  Panthers make the announcement, and within an hour, the giants say they are in negotiations with Judge since the night before.  huh???  they did not hire him at that point (to my knowledge, they STILL have not?) so why announce that ONE HOUR after the Rhule announcement?  why not announce it the night before?  why not wait till...you know...you actually HIRE the guy?  total panic move and once again, vagiants trying to cover it up.

 

now hey, the guy may wind up being a great head coach;  who knows?  but the midgets knew the writing on the wall:  all three of their rivals in their division now had SB winning/appearance HCs and "their guy" got away.

[Dcat]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

There's no salary cap for coaches.  I've never understood why a team would pinch pennies when hiring an HC.  The Jets have seemingly been doing that for years under the Johnson's.  

The Panthers just made an inexperienced College HC the 5th highest paid HC in the NFL.   It's not a matter of pinching pennies.  That's just crazy.  Rhule has proven absolutely NOTHING.  

[Jetsfan80]

13 minutes ago, Dcat said:

The Panthers just made an inexperienced College HC the 5th highest paid HC in the NFL.   It's not a matter of pinching pennies.  That's just crazy.  Rhule has proven absolutely NOTHING.  

Who cares?  That's the owner's money.  

If you're talking players, sure, there's every reason to call it stupid when a player gets overpaid.  But a HC?  What does it matter?  

And he's proven quite a lot, actually.  He has HC experience and turned two fledgling programs into contenders.  That's a much better resume than some of these OC/DC/Position Coaches teams hire.  Every Coordinator/Position Coach the Jets have hired of late have gotten Peter Principle'd, and the Jets aren't alone in those types of bad hires.  

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Steven A and several others are trashing this move too, because the Mara's just set minority coaching development back 10 years but hopefully sparked the need to increase focus - expect Runey rule updates this offseason

there was no reason to hire him on the spot, fine if they got outbid for Rhule but they are competing with Browns for the only other open job and no one else was interviewing Judge... 

very bad look, not quite McCaskey bad, but this will leave a mark

[Biggs]

It's good for the Giants and the Jets if Rhule is a good NFL coach.  It's good for the Giants and Jets if Joe Judge is a good NFL coach.  The idea that the Giants and the Panthers are in competition for coaches or GM's ignores that they are partners with each other and their teams value is based on the popularity of NFL football not individual teams.  

From the NFL perspective, the owners are partners, as long as some new coaches are successful and the overall pool of front office and coaching talent expands enough to keep the game entertaining who hires who is irrelevant.   

Cowher's rant ignores the fact that if Rhule turns out to be a great NFL HC the Giants owners benefit greatly.   Cowher is trolling Giant fans for eyeballs.  The rant is meaningless.

The reality is Rhule and Judge are total unknowns at the NFL level.  Judge got the BB stamp of approval and Rhule is the hot college commodity.  There is no right or wrong decision.  They're both complete unknown as NFL HC's.

 

[jetstream23]

20 hours ago, jgb said:

Yeah I look at the big picture. I’m a deep thinker like that.

 

20 hours ago, slimjasi said:

oh ok. Big thinker. Gotcha

 

Big hitter, the Lama.

Long.

 

[Biggs]

9 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Who cares?  That's the owner's money.  

If you're talking players, sure, there's every reason to call it stupid when a player gets overpaid.  But a HC?  What does it matter?  

And he's proven quite a lot, actually.  He has HC experience and turned two fledgling programs into contenders.  That's a much better resume than some of these OC/DC/Position Coaches teams hire.  Every Coordinator/Position Coach the Jets have hired of late have gotten Peter Principle'd, and the Jets aren't alone in those types of bad hires.  

He's proven less at the NFL level than Joe Judge.  College success is based a lot on recruiting.  

[Augustiniak]

The only reason that everyone isn’t ripping this hire more is b/c the guy coached under belichick.  Can you imagine if the giants hired a special teams coach from, say, Denver?  Teams keep giving guys opportunities to coach b/c they think they have another belichick but in reality belichick needs lots of coaches and most of them are just ordinary.  

[Jetsfan80]

He's proven less at the NFL level than Joe Judge.  College success is based a lot on recruiting.  

Do you think Rhule was getting top tier recruits at Temple and Baylor prior to establishing himself?

[TNJet]

19 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

The Dolphins front office was trying to lose.

 

 

You don't have to try to lose with Fitz and Rosen, they'll find a way to lose every game.

[Jetsfan80]

You don't have to try to lose with Fitz and Rosen, they'll find a way to lose every game.

Fitz prevented a Pats bye, which helped knock the Pats out of the playoffs. And for that I’ll be eternally grateful.

[GreenFish]

On 1/7/2020 at 3:01 PM, Legend Killa7 said:

that's what the midgets WANT us to think.  think about it:  WHY would they rush to announce this 1 hr after the Rhule announcement?  they still had interviews lined up.  makes no sense.  they care how they look / how they are perceived and knew they would get slaughtered.

boy, this day just keeps getting better and better!

Maybe they feared a team would dive in and scoop Judge from under their nose.