ESPN+ Article has Jets ranked as the worst roster in NFL

[Ben Had]

9 hours ago, Philc1 said:

And the patriots won 6 Super Bowls with no stat guys.  Your point?

What about TB12?

[Jethead]

20 hours ago, bitonti said:

they were going 7-9 best case before they traded Adams and CJ opted out 

after losing their 2 best players by far there's no floor on this Jets season 

they really do have one of the least talented rosters in football, which isn't that surprising when the owner insists on rolling over 30 mil in unused cap

the teams that win spend money the teams that don't want to win don't

that's not to say spending money means you're going to win, far from it 

but underfunded rosters don't have a chance 

this roster is underfunded at every major position besides GM. HC spend is a joke. The Qb had major draft capital invested in him but in terms of actual dollars the Jets are perpetually top 5 in open cap space among teams like WAS and CLE 

Agree 100%. Would not be sorry to see the season canceled. JETS have no shot.

[TNJet]

19 hours ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

Where is the impact player on the Jets?

Darnold, Herndon, Mims, Maye, Foley, CJ.

[Apache 51]

Maybe so, but we are rich /wealthy, right SARI.

[Alka]

On 8/7/2020 at 9:58 AM, GreekJet said:

QB: 26/32 

RB: 19/32

WR: 30/32

TE: 20/32

OL: 19/32

DL: 15/32

Edge: 31/32

ILB: 22/32

CB: 32/32

Overall 32/32

Shakiest: New York Jets

The Jets seemed to be headed the right direction after their aforementioned offensive line overhaul, but the trade of Adams to Seattle coupled with C.J. Mosley's opt out all but sinks this team's chances of a Cinderella run to a playoff berth. In fact, aside of the Quinnen Williams-led interior defensive line, it's fair to say New York's four other defensive units are below average or poor. The offense isn't much better, which puts a lot of pressure on unproven Darnold to make a big leap in his third NFL season. A fifth consecutive losing season appears to be on the horizon for arguably the league's worst team on paper.

 

The Jets were top 10 in defensive DVOA last year without Mosley so not sure the defensive rankings are fair. 
 

Hard to believe there are 14 better interior DL groups. 

So, 1. the Jets are headed in the right direction

2. The Jets won 6 out of the last 8 games of the season last year.

With these 2 facts, how can anyone say we're the shakiest roster in the NFL?

Just pouncing on the Jets like they do every year.  Garbage in, equals garbage out. 

 

[FidelioJet]

23 minutes ago, Alka said:

So, 1. the Jets are headed in the right direction

2. The Jets won 6 out of the last 8 games of the season last year.

With these 2 facts, how can anyone say we're the shakiest roster in the NFL?

Just pouncing on the Jets like they do every year.  Garbage in, equals garbage out. 

 

Have they been wrong?

[Jetsfan80]

Cam has SUCKED the last 5 years. Why would anyone think he will either play well or stay healthy?

Because he’s a Patriot now. OL don’t get called for holding there. Home wins come easy. QBs aren’t allowed to be touched.

[Jetsfan80]

Last year The most injured teams in the NFL during the 2019 regular season were the Seattle Seahawks, Jacksonville Jaguars, and New York Jets. 
https://www.mangameslost.com/nfl-2019-regular-season-games-missed-due-to-injury-and-injury-metrics/
You just cant discount the SOS because of injury when we were more injured than the teams we played
 

Sure I can. SOS isn’t impacted by injury. The team’s ability to win those games is hampered by injury, yes. But the SOS isn’t impacted.

Injuries happen. Some more impactful than others. I’d say the Jets having their starting QB available while the Steelers were rolling with their QB3 was more impactful, no?

[Sperm Edwards]

On 8/7/2020 at 12:03 PM, bitonti said:

they were going 7-9 best case before they traded Adams and CJ opted out 

after losing their 2 best players by far there's no floor on this Jets season 

they really do have one of the least talented rosters in football, which isn't that surprising when the owner insists on rolling over 30 mil in unused cap

the teams that win spend money the teams that don't want to win don't

that's not to say spending money means you're going to win, far from it 

but underfunded rosters don't have a chance 

this roster is underfunded at every major position besides GM. HC spend is a joke. The Qb had major draft capital invested in him but in terms of actual dollars the Jets are perpetually top 5 in open cap space among teams like WAS and CLE 

I don't know where the idea came from that it's wise to blow out the cap just because it's there, and then when the draft comes either:

1. a. potentially cross off better prospects because the position had already been filled by a much more expensive veteran the month before
2. b. stubbornly draft those redundant positions again anyway

Last year the Redskins carried cap charges $205MM (3 wins); the Giants $195MM (4 wins; 2 of them coming against Washington lol); Chargers $184MM (5 wins); Cleveland $213MM.

Meanwhile the SB champ Chiefs had the 2nd-lowest cap charges in the NFL with $167MM, and had more cap space forward to 2020 ($23MM) than the Jets, without the current Jets' excuse of $17MM starters opting out of the season at the end of July to suddenly clear a bunch of it, nor any mid/late March concerns that there wouldn't even be a season come fall. They only had 3 players with a cap charge over $7MM (half as many as the Jets). The Chiefs' biggest cap charge? Big mistake FA signing Sammy Watkins and his $19.2MM hit. He was the only one more expensive than the $10.7MM Kelce. 

Bills had $26MM in cap space unspent. Philly $29MM. Tennessee $21MM. Houston $20MM. 

Teams with terrible rosters - particularly ones who just underwent a major GM regime change, with so many starters hitting FA - don't start the rebuilding process by overspending wildly in free agency. They start drafting better (or that's the plan, anyway) and then with the extra cap $ they've left for themselves, they pay extra when they see themselves as contenders and when the holes can be better narrowed-down to fewer positions. Spending just to make 5 people happy that it was spent gets you extensions for Quincy Enunwa + Mo Williams and FA pickups like Trumaine Johnson and Darrelle Revis.

There were some higher-priced players I wish they'd signed, but that's a 2-way street (the player has to want to come here, too). Maybe it'll turn out for the better - I hope it does - but on the eve of FA I don't think there was a single football fan that felt a 28 year-old Fant was worth just $5MM less than 26 year-old Conklin (and that presumes even 5% of non-liar football fans had even heard of George Fant when the Jets paid him all that money).

If Darnold is just meh again, then using another $25MM of 2021 cap this year - particularly on defense - will have proven to be foolish spending anyway.

[bitonti]

When George Fant is riding the pine because he's not a rt, the value of Conklin will become apparent

As for blowing out the cap No one is asking for that. It's fair to expect then to spend to the floor and 2 our every 4 years they don't. They trade Adams and pay cj mosely 20 million dollars for 1 half of football over 2 years. They splash in fa to get up to the floor. They should just fund the roster 96 percent consistently. Instead of cycling between 88 percent and 96 percent to get above 92 percent floor

Or put it another way there's nothing irresponsible about spending 98 percent of the cap every season. The jets owners just choose not to

And fans like sperm treat the unused spend as their own. Like wood is going to share the extra space.

I don't know where the idea came from that it's wise to blow out the cap just because it's there, and then when the draft comes either:

1. a. potentially cross off better prospects because the position had already been filled by a much more expensive veteran the month before
2. b. stubbornly draft those redundant positions again anyway

Last year the Redskins carried cap charges $205MM (3 wins); the Giants $195MM (4 wins; 2 of them coming against Washington lol); Chargers $184MM (5 wins); Cleveland $213MM.
Meanwhile the SB champ Chiefs had the 2nd-lowest cap charges in the NFL with $167MM, and had more cap space forward to 2020 ($23MM) than the Jets, without the current Jets' excuse of $17MM starters opting out of the season at the end of July to suddenly clear a bunch of it, nor any mid/late March concerns that there wouldn't even be a season come fall. They only had 3 players with a cap charge over $7MM (half as many as the Jets). The Chiefs' biggest cap charge? Big mistake FA signing Sammy Watkins and his $19.2MM hit. He was the only one more expensive than the $10.7MM Kelce. 
Bills had $26MM in cap space unspent. Philly $29MM. Tennessee $21MM. Houston $20MM. 
Teams with terrible rosters - particularly ones who just underwent a major GM regime change, with so many starters hitting FA - don't start the rebuilding process by overspending wildly in free agency. They start drafting better (or that's the plan, anyway) and then with the extra cap $ they've left for themselves, they pay extra when they see themselves as contenders and when the holes can be better narrowed-down to fewer positions. Spending just to make 5 people happy that it was spent gets you extensions for Quincy Enunwa + Mo Williams and FA pickups like Trumaine Johnson and Darrelle Revis.

There were some higher-priced players I wish they'd signed, but that's a 2-way street (the player has to want to come here, too). Maybe it'll turn out for the better - I hope it does - but on the eve of FA I don't think there was a single football fan that felt a 28 year-old Fant was worth just $5MM less than 26 year-old Conklin (and that presumes even 5% of non-liar football fans had even heard of George Fant when the Jets paid him all that money).
If Darnold is just meh again, then using another $25MM of 2021 cap this year - particularly on defense - will have proven to be foolish spending anyway.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jethead]

10 hours ago, bitonti said:

When George Fant is riding the pine because he's not a rt, the value of Conklin will become apparent

As for blowing out the cap No one is asking for that. It's fair to expect then to spend to the floor and 2 our every 4 years they don't. They trade Adams and pay cj mosely 20 million dollars for 1 half of football over 2 years. They splash in fa to get up to the floor. They should just fund the roster 96 percent consistently. Instead of cycling between 88 percent and 96 percent to get above 92 percent floor

Or put it another way there's nothing irresponsible about spending 98 percent of the cap every season. The jets owners just choose not to

And fans like sperm treat the unused spend as their own. Like wood is going to share the extra space.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

He's saving for his share of Ghislane Maxwell's legal expenses. Players gotta play.

[nyjunc]

On 8/7/2020 at 5:01 PM, southparkcpa said:

Don’t tell @nyjunc he will tell you other wise. ?

The team that Woody built......    wheres Tebow when you need him. 

Anyone who thinks we have a bottom 5 roster should stop watching football.  

 

So now Woody gets credit if the roster is that bad? I see how it goes, anything negative it's all Woody's fault, anything positive it's because of woke Chris

[bitonti]

16 hours ago, Jethead said:

He's saving for his share of Ghislane Maxwell's legal expenses. Players gotta play.

legal expenses i.e. making it look like a suicide 

even in the illuminati, Woody goes for the cheap option 

[Alka]

On 8/8/2020 at 1:05 PM, FidelioJet said:

Have they been wrong?

Well, if you just look at the Jets record from last year, compared to at least 10 other teams that picked before the Jets did this year, then you might come to the conclusion that the Jets shouldn't be designated with the shakiest roster.

Then add to the fact that most "experts" have said that the Jets had a very good draft, then the shakiest draft assessment looks even more stupid.

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, Alka said:

Well, if you just look at the Jets record from last year, compared to at least 10 other teams that picked before the Jets did this year, then you might come to the conclusion that the Jets shouldn't be designated with the shakiest roster.

Then add to the fact that most "experts" have said that the Jets had a very good draft, then the shakiest draft assessment looks even more stupid.

Except that they traded away their best player and only all-pro, didn't resign their best offensive player and their second best player just opt-ed out.

Drafts are crap-shoots, a lot liked the draft but who the heck knows, draft picks have no place in a list like this.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

On 8/9/2020 at 8:38 AM, bitonti said:

As for blowing out the cap No one is asking for that. It's fair to expect then to spend to the floor and 2 our every 4 years they don't. They trade Adams and pay cj mosely 20 million dollars for 1 half of football over 2 years. They splash in fa to get up to the floor. They should just fund the roster 96 percent consistently. Instead of cycling between 88 percent and 96 percent to get above 92 percent floor

Or put it another way there's nothing irresponsible about spending 98 percent of the cap every season. The jets owners just choose not to

And fans like sperm treat the unused spend as their own. Like wood is going to share the extra space.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

Lol there is something irresponsible, as was shown when Maccagnan made his big splash in 2015 and it took 2 years to recover. But hey, you had the satisfaction of knowing he paid Revis $39MM for 1 good season and 1 lousy season. 

Players become available as FAs, and others on the roster need to be re-upped, from time to time. The lack of planning can cause you to miss out on someone better because of a mild upgrade today, even if it didn't help enough today to even make the playoffs. 

I could see if there was some proven correlation between spending 98% of the cap and championships, but there is none and has never been one. The reigning NFL champs had a lower cap spend than the Jets did in 2019. 

Also anyone who builds a roster by blowing out the cap on a safety, an ILB, and a RB ... well I want to be nice but the punchline is absent filling every other position with superstars in the draft, still on rookie contracts, the team you build will be a non-contender 100x out of 100.

Draft well and then see what are the need areas. If you're going to add mega-priced FAs as you're building, at least have the sense to make those the starting positions that aren't routinely filled with middle (or late) round draft picks. 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

On 8/9/2020 at 8:38 AM, bitonti said:

When George Fant is riding the pine because he's not a rt, the value of Conklin will become apparent
 

 

The above is just philosophy. I do agree with you on Fant vs Conklin, which is a specific player judgment call not a general philosophical one.

I fully admit I didn't know crap about Fant other than knowing his name, but he's 2 years older than Conklin; he has never beaten out an average starter to earn a starting position of his own; and was so expensive himself it's a head-scratcher of a gamble.

Conklin certainly isn't a perfect player but after being a top 10 draft pick he's been a proven 4-year starter, and isn't some Fat Albert with slow feet, so I'm sure he can play LT as well (he just wasn't the best LT on Carolina is all). And it only makes it more upsetting that he signed with Cle for some $4-5MM/year less than expected for what should be the 3 best years of his career from age 26-28: still young enough to play at his physical peak, plus 4 years of NFL starting experience to make him better.

And we went with a guy who only started when the real starter was injured, and didn't even earn a starting job at any other position on the line otherwise, including at RT where Ifedi was crap and could barely get a veteran minimum contract as a young UFA himself. I'm also further discouraged that Seattle let him go instead of locking him up midseason, instead going with a competition between bleh Shell + bust Ogbuehi, who cumulatively cost about the same as known-quantity Fant.

Hopefully they're right and Fant is a rock on the line, but his career thus far suggests that's far less likely than if they'd signed Conklin instead.  I guess, in Conklin, the player has to want to come here & it's not enough to just want him. But it's not like everyone is dying to play for Cleveland either. 

[GreekJet]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The above is just philosophy. I do agree with you on Fant vs Conklin, which is a specific player judgment call not a general philosophical one.

I fully admit I didn't know crap about Fant other than knowing his name, but he's 2 years older than Conklin; he has never beaten out an average starter to earn a starting position of his own; and was so expensive himself it's a head-scratcher of a gamble.

Conklin certainly isn't a perfect player but after being a top 10 draft pick he's been a proven 4-year starter, and isn't some Fat Albert with slow feet, so I'm sure he can play LT as well (he just wasn't the best LT on Carolina is all). And it only makes it more upsetting that he signed with Cle for some $4-5MM/year less than expected for what should be the 3 best years of his career from age 26-28: still young enough to play at his physical peak, plus 4 years of NFL starting experience to make him better.

And we went with a guy who only started when the real starter was injured, and didn't even earn a starting job at any other position on the line otherwise, including at RT where Ifedi was crap and could barely get a veteran minimum contract as a young UFA himself. I'm also further discouraged that Seattle let him go instead of locking him up midseason, instead going with a competition between bleh Shell + bust Ogbuehi, who cumulatively cost about the same as known-quantity Fant.

Hopefully they're right and Fant is a rock on the line, but his career thus far suggests that's far less likely than if they'd signed Conklin instead.  I guess, in Conklin, the player has to want to come here & it's not enough to just want him. But it's not like everyone is dying to play for Cleveland either. 

Keep in mind Cleveland is locked into Conklin for multiple seasons. The Jets can cut bait on Fant and improve next offseason when they have more cash to work with. In fact with the extra draft picks the Jets can theoretically go after Ronnie Stanley on the franchise tag. 
 

Bitonti is correct-The Jets are not actively trying to win right now, and have set this up as an evaluation year. 

[Jetster]

On 8/7/2020 at 11:34 AM, heymangold said:

everyone thinks this team is going to be 7-9, 8-8 with a chance at the playoffs.  lets face it, that isn't going to happen.  the team has HUGE questions at literally almost every postion.  not to mention other they GW, this coaching staff isn't great.

So does every young team & sometimes because of a QBs improvement the entire team jumps on the let's have fun & score some points train. 

Its not out of the question to believe that with some protection, a bit more space for the RBs to get traction, a group of Perriman, Crowder, Mims, Herndons return + Bell-Gore-Perine, these guys can have some good offensive games. GW is a gambler, you only need 1 big turnover when up on the scoreboard to steal a few games. 

[Dunnie]

Jamal's departure sparked that rating.

QB: 26/32 
RB: 19/32
WR: 30/32
TE: 20/32
OL: 19/32
DL: 15/32
Edge: 31/32
ILB: 22/32
CB: 32/32
Overall 32/32

Shakiest: New York Jets

The Jets seemed to be headed the right direction after their aforementioned offensive line overhaul, but the trade of Adams to Seattle coupled with C.J. Mosley's opt out all but sinks this team's chances of a Cinderella run to a playoff berth. In fact, aside of the Quinnen Williams-led interior defensive line, it's fair to say New York's four other defensive units are below average or poor. The offense isn't much better, which puts a lot of pressure on unproven Darnold to make a big leap in his third NFL season. A fifth consecutive losing season appears to be on the horizon for arguably the league's worst team on paper.

 

The Jets were top 10 in defensive DVOA last year without Mosley so not sure the defensive rankings are fair. 
 
Hard to believe there are 14 better interior DL groups. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[heymangold]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

So does every young team & sometimes because of a QBs improvement the entire team jumps on the let's have fun & score some points train. 

Its not out of the question to believe that with some protection, a bit more space for the RBs to get traction, a group of Perriman, Crowder, Mims, Herndons return + Bell-Gore-Perine, these guys can have some good offensive games. GW is a gambler, you only need 1 big turnover when up on the scoreboard to steal a few games. 

I agree with you but this team has WAY too many “what if’s”.

WHAT IF:

sam takes that jump

leveon plays like the old le’veon

the o-line meshes and plays well

the wide receivers can step up and be weapons

Q can live up to his potential 

Williamson can come back and be that leader that we need in the middle

desir plays like he did 2 years ago and bless steps up

maye can take jamal’s spot or Ashtyn is ready for the NFL

gase has learned from his mistakes and can be a good coach 

 

that’s the questions at EVERY level on this team.

 

 

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

So does every young team & sometimes because of a QBs improvement the entire team jumps on the let's have fun & score some points train. 

Its not out of the question to believe that with some protection, a bit more space for the RBs to get traction, a group of Perriman, Crowder, Mims, Herndons return + Bell-Gore-Perine, these guys can have some good offensive games. GW is a gambler, you only need 1 big turnover when up on the scoreboard to steal a few games. 

ESPN did the same thing with the jets in 2013 after we traded Revis for a pick.  Peter King was literally doing long form interviews about how we were going 0-16

 

And we have a better roster this year with a way better qb

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Jamal's departure sparked that rating.

 

I'm sure.  "Expert" opinion at work by these guys!

They should ask Vegas what they think about the impact of Jamal's departure from NY and arrival at Seattle.  

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm sure.  "Expert" opinion at work by these guys!

They should ask Vegas what they think about the impact of Jamal's departure from NY and arrival at Seattle.  

Based on their extremely well researched and thought out ratings the Seahawks are going to win the next 5 Super Bowls in a row because of Adams

[Sperm Edwards]

21 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Keep in mind Cleveland is locked into Conklin for multiple seasons. The Jets can cut bait on Fant and improve next offseason when they have more cash to work with. In fact with the extra draft picks the Jets can theoretically go after Ronnie Stanley on the franchise tag. 
 

Bitonti is correct-The Jets are not actively trying to win right now, and have set this up as an evaluation year. 

Conklin got 2 seasons guaranteed. He's worth 2 guaranteed seasons at $14MM more than Fant is worth 1 guaranteed season at $9MM. 

What you're probably not realizing is that Bit's underlying assertion is, and has ever been, that the Jets are trying to save cash not cap space, as some sort of mandate from the owner(s) to the GM. It's been his shtick for well over a decade. It doesn't matter that the Jets just came off a season noticeably outspending the SB champs; to him 73 year-old billionaire Woody Johnson is cash-poor and therefore needs/wants to pay $180MM for a loser rather than $200MM for a winner (never mind rather than just selling the team outright for billions more). He actually believes this, so know what you're defending.

Fant was picked up primarily as a hedge, not a tryout. If Becton performs well as a rookie, Fant is a one-year band-aid RT unless he is wow-level good on the field. The plan is that Becton will be the LT this year (or RT this year then LT next year), and then Fant will ideally be replaced next year by a 2021 draft pick, which is not a bad way to proceed in a vacuum, except that in a vacuum Conklin at $14MM/year wasn't an option.

Either Fant will have to bury the rookie RT to keep his 2021 roster slot. Or what'll happen is he'll take a $3-5MM pay cut in exchange for a guaranteed slot for one more season, and then he'll be gone in 2022 when Douglas uses a day 3 pick to draft his 3rd tackle in 3 straight drafts to be a backup G/T. IMO that is the goal, rather than any Fant tryout. Of course it doesn't play out this way if a 2021 tackle draftee really sucks as a rookie, but the whole process was unnecessary. 

Usually I'm in favor of such a strategy, but I don't care for it in this instance because it's atypical for anyone to let an above-average tackle reach free agency. Picking up Conklin may have cost a bit more, but with that $5MM/year extra Douglas would have had a more sure thing and would have further saved a day 2 (if not a day 1) pick in 2021 on another tackle. Conklin is proven as an above average starter and Fant - who's a couple years Conklin's senior, mind you - is equally proven as a backup who couldn't earn a starting job in Seattle, nor keep it after injuries bumped him into the starting lineup.

Put simply, Conlin - entering what should be 3 of the 5 best seasons of a tackle's career (if not the 3 best outright) - does not require an "evaluation year" the way Fant does. In terms of guaranteed money, 26 year-old Conklin is worth $15MM x 2 years (with a $12MM 3rd year) more than 28 year-old Fant is worth $9MM x 1 year as a UFA plus reinvest highly in the position again next year. Even if the cap dips a little next year, Conlin still isn't badly overpriced since he was expected to fetch some $18-19MM/year before FA started. If Fant isn't an above-average starter against both the run and the pass, then in a cost-saving endeavor Douglas just pissed away ~$8MM for a low-percentage tryout.

As UFAs, Conklin is a $5MM/year upgrade over Fant more than Fant is an $8MM upgrade over Ifedi (whom he couldn't beat out in Seattle). 

[Sperm Edwards]

And @GreekJet lolz at the Jets (or anyone) signing Ronnie Stanley as a FA next year. 

It's doubtful he's ever getting out of Baltimore and the only way anyone gets someone else's young, veteran, all-pro left tackle is by forking over two 1st rounders outright to pry him away from the franchise tag he's going to get hit with again next year (if they don't reach extension terms before then, and/or if he's not hit with the exclusive-rights tag in the first place, one of which is likely to happen). 

Baltimore tagged him because it was just $12.8MM where a 2020 extension would have cost about $23MM/year (maybe more). Cap-wise they're much better off tagging him 3 years in a row (plus the long-term money / injury risk falls onto the player rather than the team, who's never risking more than the one upcoming season). Never mind the risk of paying a player in March for a season that might not have been played, or the prospect of negotiating next season with a 10% lower salary cap after keeping him for $12.8MM this year. 

It's no accident there are way more tagged players this year than normal (15 this year; usually there are about 6 and half the time one of them is a kicker). That doesn't mean these teams don't want the players more than 1 year; it just means there were other factors at play in this unique offseason.

You've been smoking some Grade D crack if you think Baltimore is just going to let Stanley simply hit free agency in 2021.

[Aaron Hernandez]

13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

And @GreekJet lolz at the Jets (or anyone) signing Ronnie Stanley as a FA next year. 

It's doubtful he's ever getting out of Baltimore and the only way anyone gets someone else's young, veteran, all-pro left tackle is by forking over two 1st rounders outright to pry him away from the franchise tag he's going to get hit with again next year (if they don't reach extension terms before then, and/or if he's not hit with the exclusive-rights tag in the first place, one of which is likely to happen). 

Baltimore tagged him because it was just $12.8MM where a 2020 extension would have cost about $23MM/year (maybe more). Cap-wise they're much better off tagging him 3 years in a row (plus the long-term money / injury risk falls onto the player rather than the team, who's never risking more than the one upcoming season). Never mind the risk of paying a player in March for a season that might not have been played, or the prospect of negotiating next season with a 10% lower salary cap after keeping him for $12.8MM this year. 

It's no accident there are way more tagged players this year than normal (15 this year; usually there are about 6 and half the time one of them is a kicker). That doesn't mean these teams don't want the players more than 1 year; it just means there were other factors at play in this unique offseason.

You've been smoking some Grade D crack if you think Baltimore is just going to let Stanley simply hit free agency in 2021.

Not disagreeing with you but their projected number against the cap next year is 215 million. They're going to have a tough time keeping him depending on how low it dips. I'm hoping it drops all the way to 175 million since we'll be one of the few teams with cash to spend. Lamar is going to be looking for a deal also if he repeats last season

[bitonti]

12 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Conklin got 2 seasons guaranteed. He's worth 2 guaranteed seasons at $14MM more than Fant is worth 1 guaranteed season at $9MM. 

What you're probably not realizing is that Bit's underlying assertion is, and has ever been, that the Jets are trying to save cash not cap space, as some sort of mandate from the owner(s) to the GM. It's been his shtick for well over a decade. It doesn't matter that the Jets just came off a season noticeably outspending the SB champs; to him 73 year-old billionaire Woody Johnson is cash-poor and therefore needs/wants to pay $180MM for a loser rather than $200MM for a winner (never mind rather than just selling the team outright for billions more). He actually believes this, so know what you're defending.

 

SE this is cherry picking data. If we look at the 4 year cycles of the CBA they have "Splash" years on players like Bell and Mosely to get them over the floor, which they were below for the other few years. looking at the splash year and saying "hey they spend" is incongruous with the reality of 4 year windows. 

they signed a new CBA and this is a below floor year, clearly. maybe next year too with a splash in year 3 and 4 to get them over the floor. They did this with Idzik they did it with Mac.  

im not like some sort of math genius but the spend is like 88% at the moment the floor is like 92% and a great deal of the "cap space" found by the Mosely opt out was used to cut Quincy and shift 33. 

the philosophy I have a problem with is you end up paying mercenaries like Trumaine Johnson while actual good players like 33 never see a second deal. They haven't given a second deal out since 2014 Mo wilkerson. They haven't been competitive for a decade. 

it's better to just spend at 95% every year or whatever but they don't do that. It's feast and famine and when they go feasting they go to the all you can eat buffet

I'm not going to say they haven't tried for 10 years. but they stopped REALLY trying about 8 years ago after the 2012 election, Woody checked out and has not cared since. When he first got here he was trying tor build WSS and loved Curtis Martin, now he's not even in the country. they are not cheap per se but they are cash poor compared to the other owners and most of their personal wealth is tied up in owning the Jets themselves

you don't have to believe me, the whole roster is on 1 year deals and they are like 30 mil under the cap according to Jason's site 

[bitonti]

oh and one more thing @Sperm Edwards, this Fant vs Conklin thing just could be JD being dumb

people say he's like this perfect GM but his FA signings have been cack

he gave Ryan Kalil 8 mil last year to start 8 games with no functional neck 

it's possible he made the wrong decision on Conklin vs Fant. Or he couldn't afford Conklin and mcgovern

but in general I have way more faith in JD as a drafter than JD as a free agent signer

remember when he signed Kaare Vedvik and started him? That cost them the Bills game, no question. 

[sec101row23]

15 minutes ago, bitonti said:

oh and one more thing @Sperm Edwards, this Fant vs Conklin thing just could be JD being dumb

people say he's like this perfect GM but his FA signings have been cack

he gave Ryan Kalil 8 mil last year to start 8 games with no functional neck 

it's possible he made the wrong decision on Conklin vs Fant. Or he couldn't afford Conklin and mcgovern

but in general I have way more faith in JD as a drafter than JD as a free agent signer

remember when he signed Kaare Vedvik and started him? That cost them the Bills game, no question. 

That, plus maybe Conklin simply wasn’t coming here unless he was grossly overpaid.   

[kmnj]

the jets have a bottom tier roster

jet fans LOVE to hype  trash guys or unproven guys like they are all world

what we know-Bell is the only pro bowl caliber player on the jets entire active roster and our coach didnt even use him correctly last year

our Wrs are trash-hope fully our draft pick proves to be legit-people talk up a scrub wr from the bucs and crowder who is a jaq-our best WR was robby a and he is gone

our TE was was basically MIA all last season and some talk about him like he is something special-he is at best an AVG te when on the field

[Sperm Edwards]

15 hours ago, Aaron Hernandez said:

Not disagreeing with you but their projected number against the cap next year is 215 million. They're going to have a tough time keeping him depending on how low it dips. I'm hoping it drops all the way to 175 million since we'll be one of the few teams with cash to spend. Lamar is going to be looking for a deal also if he repeats last season

There's no way they'd just let him go; they'd trade him first. Even if they don't keep him, teams don't pass up on 1st rounders (if not multiple 1st rounders) for a young all pro left tackle, and just keep it in their pockets in FA to get a compensatory 3rd rounder a year later.

[Philc1]

10 hours ago, bitonti said:

oh and one more thing @Sperm Edwards, this Fant vs Conklin thing just could be JD being dumb

people say he's like this perfect GM but his FA signings have been cack

he gave Ryan Kalil 8 mil last year to start 8 games with no functional neck 

it's possible he made the wrong decision on Conklin vs Fant. Or he couldn't afford Conklin and mcgovern

but in general I have way more faith in JD as a drafter than JD as a free agent signer

remember when he signed Kaare Vedvik and started him? That cost them the Bills game, no question. 

Kalil and Vedvik were Gase moves

[bitonti]

11 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Kalil and Vedvik were Gase moves

 

Ryan Kalil, Adam Gase, Sam Darnold & Joe Douglas share the same agent: Jimmy Sexton

i don't know if Vedvik is also represented by CAA but it wouldn't be shocking. 

that's who really runs this team, in case people were wondering; CAA 

Jimmy Sexton is their unpaid Charlie Casserly 

for all my bashing of Sam he better be good because Sexton knows the ATM codes and he will get his 100 mil whether it's deserved or not 

the Jets aren't so much a professional football team as personal wealth vehicle for Sexton and to a larger extent, the Johnsons.

 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

21 hours ago, bitonti said:

SE this is cherry picking data. If we look at the 4 year cycles of the CBA they have "Splash" years on players like Bell and Mosely to get them over the floor, which they were below for the other few years. looking at the splash year and saying "hey they spend" is incongruous with the reality of 4 year windows. 

they signed a new CBA and this is a below floor year, clearly. maybe next year too with a splash in year 3 and 4 to get them over the floor. They did this with Idzik they did it with Mac.  

im not like some sort of math genius but the spend is like 88% at the moment the floor is like 92% and a great deal of the "cap space" found by the Mosely opt out was used to cut Quincy and shift 33. 

the philosophy I have a problem with is you end up paying mercenaries like Trumaine Johnson while actual good players like 33 never see a second deal. They haven't given a second deal out since 2014 Mo wilkerson. They haven't been competitive for a decade. 

it's better to just spend at 95% every year or whatever but they don't do that. It's feast and famine and when they go feasting they go to the all you can eat buffet

I'm not going to say they haven't tried for 10 years. but they stopped REALLY trying about 8 years ago after the 2012 election, Woody checked out and has not cared since. When he first got here he was trying tor build WSS and loved Curtis Martin, now he's not even in the country. they are not cheap per se but they are cash poor compared to the other owners and most of their personal wealth is tied up in owning the Jets themselves

you don't have to believe me, the whole roster is on 1 year deals and they are like 30 mil under the cap according to Jason's site 

Not necessarily. It's that you should never play a mercenary like Trumaine Johnson, not mercenaries in general. As I recall you had no such reservations re-signing Revis in 2015.

Plus you're doing the far worse cherry-picking by suggesting we need to retain our own because that's somehow better. Then you willfully wave off as insignificant our extending UFA Mo Wilkerson - which you were in favor of - like it's some rarity for one's own player to mail it in after getting such a huge deal, while pointing at Trumaine Johnson as though it's the norm for another's UFA.  Now THAT is some hindsight cherry-picking.

Some UFA signings are good; some are not. Some are great; some are awful. Duh. There's no particular rule. Whether or not you believe Adams will coast after getting $20MM+/year - which is a patently ludicrous amount for a safety, and quadruple-ludicrous when factoring in the waved-off pair of 1st rounders for such a privilege - you don't actually know any more about future coasting than you did with Mo, and won't know until it happens. 

The best reason to extend Mo but not Adams is his trade value was not as high despite playing a demonstrably higher value position; anything more than that is using hindsight to rationalize. The team should have known what it was getting into because they knew the player. I think the team similarly made its decision on Adams, whom I suspect was not so popular in the locker room as their self-appointed leader of men who generally only talked about himself and his leaderism and how much money he should get for it.

It's one thing to sign an 8-figure/year safety as a UFA or a lower-level trade (Collins, Thomas, Amos, Mathieu, etc); it's quite another to surrender a pair of 1st round picks on top of it. 

And a big part of the reason they're so far under the cap right now is because they got a windfall of cap space after players - mostly Mosley - opted out, which put the space back for this season. Other than that, you're criticizing spending on a Trumaine Johnson level FA in the past while also criticizing for leaving cap room for not singing the next Trumaine Johnson level FA now.  

I agree with you that the Fant vs Conklin was probably a judgment call on the player more than cap room, but - like you - I think it's a poor decision. With a lot of these guys I think they like to look like the smartest guy in the room by making a move most scratch their heads at and then having it pan out bigtime. The problem is it usually doesn't, which is what makes them headscratcher moves in the first place. Unless he was unwilling to come here Conklin at $14MM/year over Fant at $9MM is the epitome of a no-brainer. So at least there's some common ground  .