I'm tired of hearing about Jamal Adams too, but....

[Butterfield]

1 hour ago, jetophile said:

He is not personally 4-0. He's just along for the ride. I mean, Otis Smith has a Super Bowl ring, you hear what I'm sayin'? Oh, fine, he had an INT, but whatever.

The point was, it wasn’t the jets or seahawks who won the trade.  It was Adams.  He is the biggest beneficiary.  

[Beerfish]

Very easy answer to that observation, one of seattles guys got hurt and jamal was actually asked to cover on more than a once per game basis.  Edelman, a slow, small white guy roasted his ass to the tune of a career high in yards.

Jamal's effect is exactly what some of us thought it would be.  Lots of press and big splashy plays because he is given freedom to go forward all game.

He is a big liability if asked to cover on a regular basis, he does not help pass defense, he does not help you actually win games.  Seattle is 4-0 totally because of Russell Wilson and their wrs.

Defense dead stinking last, enjoy jamal seattle we will sure enjoy our draft picks.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

You ever notice the same "we must stop trading away our great players like Anderson and Adams" guys who today are endlessly flogging the "look how great Anderson is in Carolina, he'd be just as great here, why are we so dumb" meme, are the same guys remaining utterly silent on the massive meh of non-performance and injury that has been Jamal Adams in 2020?

Losing Adams = lost a non-premium position player that netted two 1st round picks and upgraded a 4th to a 3rd, plus kept the cap room open for another premium player by not tying up $18-20MM/year on a friggin' box safety.

Losing Anderson = lost a premium position player with nothing gained - not even a compensatory draft pick - unless one really values one year of cap relief in the amount of $3MM over Perriman, at further expense of giving Darnold a 3rd season of excuses in an evaluation-not-contending season. 

Plus the difference is when both were on the trading block at the same time, one was openly insulted & bitter about having been shopped in the first place, where the other was publicly elated he got to stay with the Jets.

At least for me, the issue was team judgment more than the player himself. Trading the former was great value. Letting the latter go for nothing, while taking a stab on an unknown career backup / former bust / walking injury report -  was crap value. 

Yeah totally apples & apples there lol.

[jetophile]

9 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

The point was, it wasn’t the jets or seahawks who won the trade.  It was Adams.  He is the biggest beneficiary.  

Based on what the Jets got for him, I'd say the jury is still out. If you're simply saying that he's the biggest beneficiary because he went to a better organization, at the end of the day, Adams didn't really give as much of a crap about that as he presented IMO.

The fact remains that he was still pushing to get paid from the Jets and in his delusion he half-expected them to pony up after he openly said he did not want to play here. The alternative is that the Jets would have ill-advisedly bent to his will and we would all still have to hear how he's Carl Lewis, the fastest man in the world!; because after he got his disproportionately undeserved positional $,  the team still sucks and he's better than that and blah blah blah what am I doing in this this sh ithole frittering away my talent blah blah blah I'm just going to die here blah blah blah. Good riddance.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Losing Adams = lost a non-premium position player that netted two 1st round picks and upgraded a 4th to a 3rd, plus kept the cap room open for another premium player by not tying up $18-20MM/year on a friggin' box safety.

Losing Anderson = lost a premium position player with nothing gained - not even a compensatory draft pick - unless one really values one year of cap relief in the amount of $3MM over Perriman, at further expense of giving Darnold a 3rd season of excuses in an evaluation-not-contending season. 

Plus the difference is when both were on the trading block at the same time, one was openly insulted & bitter about having been shopped in the first place, where the other was publicly elated he got to stay with the Jets.

At least for me, the issue was team judgment more than the player himself. Trading the former was great value. Letting the latter go for nothing, while taking a stab on an unknown career backup / former bust / walking injury report -  was crap value. 

Yeah totally apples & apples there lol.

Yep, cool, gotcha.  I am aware of where you stand on this issue.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Butterfield said:

What are you talking about?  

You're using the Seahawks record vs. the Jets record to make a comment re: Jamal Adams.  I'm suggesting that if record is closely related to safety play, then the Jets record was better with Eric Smith than Jamal Adams.  Therefore....................

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

You're using the Seahawks record vs. the Jets record to make a comment re: Jamal Adams.  I'm suggesting that if record is closely related to safety play, then the Jets record was better with Eric Smith than Jamal Adams.  Therefore....................

That this needed explanation

[ZachEY]

21 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That this needed explanation

[Butterfield]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

You're using the Seahawks record vs. the Jets record to make a comment re: Jamal Adams.  I'm suggesting that if record is closely related to safety play, then the Jets record was better with Eric Smith than Jamal Adams.  Therefore....................

No.  Thats not what I was saying at all.  

[Butterfield]

2 hours ago, jetophile said:

Based on what the Jets got for him, I'd say the jury is still out. If you're simply saying that he's the biggest beneficiary because he went to a better organization, at the end of the day, Adams didn't really give as much of a crap about that as he presented IMO.

The fact remains that he was still pushing to get paid from the Jets and in his delusion he half-expected them to pony up after he openly said he did not want to play here. The alternative is that the Jets would have ill-advisedly bent to his will and we would all still have to hear how he's Carl Lewis, the fastest man in the world!; because after he got his disproportionately undeserved positional $,  the team still sucks and he's better than that and blah blah blah what am I doing in this this sh ithole frittering away my talent blah blah blah I'm just going to die here blah blah blah. Good riddance.

If I were a football player, and I never had a jets affinity, my biggest priority would be to get away from this incompetent organization.  Getting away from a team that would ruin me would be the ultimate goal.  

[jetophile]

1 minute ago, Butterfield said:

If I were a football player, and I never had a jets affinity, my biggest priority would be to get away from this incompetent organization.  Getting away from a team that would ruin me would be the ultimate goal.  

You're missing the crux of the point. Or the point of the non-star. 

[pointman]

12 hours ago, AFJF said:

This contrast was too staggering to not share.

Over the course of the entire 2019 season, Jamal Adams allowed 150 receiving yards.

Through 4 games this season, he has allowed 137.

 

Bust. Sell high, buy low. Just what we did. 

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

No.  Thats not what I was saying at all.  

You said "Jamal Adams is 4-0 and that's all that matters".  How else was that expected to be interpreted?  Because you do realize Jamal Adams would be 0-4 here, no?

If you're saying Jamal "won" by getting out of here, that's questionable too.  He wanted to get "out of here" because he wanted to go to a place where he could be the 3rd or 4th most important player on D and then get paid.  This is evidenced by the list of teams he provided the Jets that he'd like to be sent to.  If he doesn't get paid, he didn't "win".  We'll have to see how much Seattle or the market deems that he is worth in the next couple seasons.

He also said he wanted to go Dallas as his # 1 destination.  He didn't.  

In any case, the Jets "won" this trade, because they got two 1sts, a 3rd, and won't be paying an overrated Box Safety $18M per season.  It doesn't matter much to me whether Jamal Adams thinks he "won" or not, or whether Seattle thinks they "won" the deal.  

[jetophile]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You said "Jamal Adams is 4-0 and that's all that matters".  How else was that expected to be interpreted?  Because you do realize Jamal Adams would be 0-4 here, no?

If you're saying Jamal "won" by getting out of here, that's questionable too.  He wanted to get "out of here" because he wanted to go to a place where he could be the 3rd or 4th most important player on D and then get paid.  This is evidenced by the list of teams he provided the Jets that he'd like to be sent to.  If he doesn't get paid, he didn't "win".  We'll have to see how much Seattle or the market deems that he is worth in the next couple seasons.

In any case, the Jets "won" this trade, because they got two 1sts, a 3rd, and won't be paying an overrated Box Safety $18M per season.  

You are, I mean. 

[pointman]

10 minutes ago, jetophile said:

You're missing the crux of the point. Or the point of the non-star. 

You realize hes a troll, right? 

[Beerfish]

13 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

If I were a football player, and I never had a jets affinity, my biggest priority would be to get away from this incompetent organization.  Getting away from a team that would ruin me would be the ultimate goal.  

One reason why some of us called him for what he is a 100% phony who bleated leadership winning yada yada for a few years and many people on here just ate that shi* up.

[varjet]

38 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

If I were a football player, and I never had a jets affinity, my biggest priority would be to get away from this incompetent organization.  Getting away from a team that would ruin me would be the ultimate goal.  

If I were a football player, I would want to make as much as possible doing this job so I can set my family up for future generations.  

For a bit of money wiggle room I would choose a better team, or try and go to the Super Bowl.  I would not necessarily sign a contract and dog it, although if the team was dumb enough to give me a way to do that I may think about trying to avoid giving myself brain damage.   That is basically what Mosley and Trumaine did. 

[jetophile]

44 minutes ago, pointman said:

You realize hes a troll, right? 

From under what bridge? The Goethals?

[Butterfield]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You said "Jamal Adams is 4-0 and that's all that matters".  How else was that expected to be interpreted?  Because you do realize Jamal Adams would be 0-4 here, no?

If you're saying Jamal "won" by getting out of here, that's questionable too.  He wanted to get "out of here" because he wanted to go to a place where he could be the 3rd or 4th most important player on D and then get paid.  This is evidenced by the list of teams he provided the Jets that he'd like to be sent to.  If he doesn't get paid, he didn't "win".  We'll have to see how much Seattle or the market deems that he is worth in the next couple seasons.

He also said he wanted to go Dallas as his # 1 destination.  He didn't.  

In any case, the Jets "won" this trade, because they got two 1sts, a 3rd, and won't be paying an overrated Box Safety $18M per season.  It doesn't matter much to me whether Jamal Adams thinks he "won" or not, or whether Seattle thinks they "won" the deal.  

He won by just getting away from the Jets.  
 

You don’t get paid if the team who drafts you is more likely to ruin you than develop you.  
 

And no one said anything about your personal feelings. 
 

Who in their right mind would rather be on the Jets than the Seahawks?  

[Butterfield]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

If I were a football player, I would want to make as much as possible doing this job so I can set my family up for future generations.  

For a bit of money wiggle room I would choose a better team, or try and go to the Super Bowl.  I would not necessarily sign a contract and dog it, although if the team was dumb enough to give me a way to do that I may think about trying to avoid giving myself brain damage.   That is basically what Mosley and Trumaine did. 

Yep, and the jets are a black hole in terms of player development.  As a player, you are less likely to attain the necessary status to get the next big deal if you are with the jets than any other team.   It sucks.  

[Butterfield]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

One reason why some of us called him for what he is a 100% phony who bleated leadership winning yada yada for a few years and many people on here just ate that shi* up.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  He may just have seen the jets for what they are.  Losers.  If I didn’t like the Jets, there would not be a single reason for me to want to be on the jets than any other team.  

[Beerfish]

"Seattle inserted former practice squad player Ryan Neal in Adams' place in Week 3 after Adams exited with the injury, and he played 100 percent of the defensive snaps in the Seahawks' Week 4 win over Miami, recording his second interception in as many games along with six tackles."

 

[GREENBEAN]

To the point about teams needing to pass more against them... While this is certainly true, you're talking about a historically bad pass defense right now, at least in yardage, as I understand it.  The Seahawks are not the first team to score points, nor win games at the beginning of the season.  We can expect more yards perhaps, but not this bad.  It's also glaring that the Seahawks pass defense has been better when Adams has not been on the field.

Interestingly his replacement has 2 picks in 2 weeks. He also is not getting burned to the degree Adams Is either.
If that keeps up it’s going to be hard to justify taking Ryan Neal out to get Adams on the field.

IIRC The hawks traded for matt Flynn and gave him a big contract then sat him on the bench when Russell Wilson outplayed him.
They also let Sheldon walk after trading a 2nd and Kearse for him As well.

They are not afraid to do the right thing fit the team. Could you imagine if Adams had to sit while healthy for a kid from the practice squad??


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[Larz]

14 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

I haven't really watched any Seahawks games but:

-How much more is he being used in coverage?

-Does one think that maybe the fact that the Seahawks have been in more "competitive" games than the Jets, that teams may actually have to pass more against them?

One thing I do know for sure, the Jets defense has not been better without Adams.

And this is not tos say that trading Adams was a bad thing, just be careful in cherry picked stats.

 

I think he gave up a lot to Edelman, but if you think about it, Pete Carroll putting Adams on Edelman is a compliment 

[jetophile]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

"Seattle inserted former practice squad player Ryan Neal in Adams' place in Week 3 after Adams exited with the injury, and he played 100 percent of the defensive snaps in the Seahawks' Week 4 win over Miami, recording his second interception in as many games along with six tackles."

 

For once in my life I didn't regret clicking on something. Hahahahaha, I played it three times and laughed even harder. 

[More Cowbell]

19 hours ago, AFJF said:

This contrast was too staggering to not share.

Over the course of the entire 2019 season, Jamal Adams allowed 150 receiving yards.

Through 4 games this season, he has allowed 137.

Adams barely dropped into coverage on the Jets. I imagine that isn't the case in Seattle

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Adams barely dropped into coverage on the Jets. I imagine that isn't the case in Seattle

And despite JamalBros screaming about Adams actually being good in coverage for years, he's gotten completely exposed thus far.  

His QB Rating when targeted so far this season?  115.3. 

He's also given up 13.9 Yards per Target.

[AFJF]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And despite JamalBros screaming about Adams actually being good in coverage for years, he's gotten completely exposed thus far.  

His QB Rating when targeted so far this season?  115.3. 

He's also given up 13.9 Yards per Target.

I always said he was good in coverage, but I also saw that the team picked their spots when they used him there.  Small doses of coverage against guys he matched up well against.  There aren't many guys who can even do that and do the other things Jamal does well, but he still isn't good enough to get the money he'll be commanding.

[bitonti]

No one ever said that 33 was a coverage hero

The dude is a pass rushing dollar backer. He specializes in tackles for loss

He's not Kerry Rhodes

And despite JamalBros screaming about Adams actually being good in coverage for years, he's gotten completely exposed thus far.  
His QB Rating when targeted so far this season?  115.3. 
He's also given up 13.9 Yards per Target.

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[More Cowbell]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And despite JamalBros screaming about Adams actually being good in coverage for years, he's gotten completely exposed thus far.  

His QB Rating when targeted so far this season?  115.3. 

He's also given up 13.9 Yards per Target.

I would venture to say Carroll isn't doing Adams any favors. They had him covering Edelman I'm the Pats game. A SS on a WR is a mismatch. 

[T0mShane]

10 hours ago, Larz said:

I think he gave up a lot to Edelman, but if you think about it, Pete Carroll putting Adams on Edelman is a compliment 

 

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

No one ever said that 33 was a coverage hero

The dude is a pass rushing dollar backer. He specializes in tackles for loss

He's not Kerry Rhodes

 

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[bitonti]

They are undefeated ya know that right

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[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

They are undefeated ya know that right

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

[Bleedin Green]

On 10/9/2020 at 7:37 AM, TeddEY said:

So, by that logic it’s also fair to say that Eric Smith was the far superior Jets safety.  Agreed?

There may be no single statement in message board posting history that has left me more torn.

[IndianaJet]

On 10/9/2020 at 6:43 AM, Butterfield said:

He is 4-0.  Jets are 0-4.  Thats all that matters.  

And I have no doubt that he personally believes that but for him, the Hawks would NOT be 4-0.