Build a Wall!

[Philc1]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

I think this is overstated. Mahomes is under a good amount more pressure tonight than Darnold has been in the overwhelming majority of his starts.

Darnold got killed in 2019.  His pass protection was better this year but Becton also missed some games and other than Becton the OL was still below mediocre with no running game 

[DoubleDecker]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

The problem with some of the ideas is the “need” involves the #2 overall pick on another tackle. That is most definitely not needed. No champion has ever over-invested so ridiculously.

If you’re seeing anything with Tampa, you’re seeing balance. The team is good everywhere. If all they did was constantly sink their top resource into the OL they wouldn’t be in the playoffs, let alone the SB.

Tampa has one first round pick on their OL, and he was just taken this season (as a final piece, not a building block). They drafted Smith & Marpet in round 2 way back in 2015, but got nothing out of their rookie contracts since they were wasted on Winston. Under veteran contracts, they’re not worth more as draft picks than incoming FAs would be (actually less, since the latter results in saving the draft picks to use on other starters). 

Yes the line is in need of upgrades, but not only will they make these efforts but a good GM, with an eye for college talent, can find other starters outside the top 3-6 picks in the whole draft. If Douglas can’t, then we’ve got another Maccagnan and it doesn’t matter anyway. 

If they stay way up top (and don’t take a QB) they’re better off as a team with a CB or edge rusher (presuming they sign a serious FA WR in March). They’ve got more than enough draft picks to find 1-2 OLmen without burning #2 overall the year after using #11 on a LT and hitting.

I don't disagree with this mindset, but I also understand the "if he's your guy, go get him!" crowd.  I want to emphasize the "whatever" portion of the part bolded.  If you feel like you can find value in the 2nd round picks and combination of FA, by all means.  I trust JD mainly because It seems he has a plan and is willing to invest resources into building the line.  Now what type of resources, not sure.  We can all agree the jets have neglected the line for so so long, it might not be out of the realm of possibility that they would use premium picks on fixing it.  Just get the talent and all of a sudden the offense will look much better including those fringe/ lottery picks in the later round.

[InstantClassic]

I feel like I’m watching the Jets

[Grandy]

1 minute ago, heymangold said:

Still not drafting Sewell at 2

Mahomes definitely struggled due to o-line play, but this doesn't all of a sudden mean that O-line is more important than having a franchise QB.

We still have a bottom 5 QB even with a clean pocket. We need an o-line, but we NEED a QB. 

[heymangold]

Tampa’s Line:

LT: Smith, 2nd

LG: Marpet, 2nd

C : Jensen, 6th

RG: Stinne, UDFA

RT: Wirfs, 1st

 

[Grandy]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think this is overstated. Mahomes is under a good amount more pressure tonight than Darnold has been in the overwhelming majority of his starts.

Darnold would have another Patriots fiasco if he was under center right now.

[Grandy]

Draft a QB

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think this is overstated. Mahomes is under a good amount more pressure tonight than Darnold has been in the overwhelming majority of his starts.

Of course he is. Because he's playing behind a much worse offensive line than Darnold ever has. Against a defense that just beat two hall of famers to get here.

[JH Jet Fan]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The problem with some of the ideas is the “need” involves the #2 overall pick on another tackle. That is most definitely not needed. No champion has ever over-invested so ridiculously.

If you’re seeing anything with Tampa, you’re seeing balance. The team is good everywhere. If all they did was constantly sink their top resource into the OL they wouldn’t be in the playoffs, let alone the SB.

Tampa has one first round pick on their OL, and he was just taken this season (as a final piece, not a building block). They drafted Smith & Marpet in round 2 way back in 2015, but got nothing out of their rookie contracts since they were wasted on Winston. Under veteran contracts, they’re not worth more as draft picks than incoming FAs would be (actually less, since the latter results in saving the draft picks to use on other starters). 

Yes the line is in need of upgrades, but not only will they make these efforts but a good GM, with an eye for college talent, can find other starters outside the top 3-6 picks in the whole draft. If Douglas can’t, then we’ve got another Maccagnan and it doesn’t matter anyway. 

If they stay way up top (and don’t take a QB) they’re better off as a team with a CB or edge rusher (presuming they sign a serious FA WR in March). They’ve got more than enough draft picks to find 1-2 OLmen without burning #2 overall the year after using #11 on a LT and hitting.

Normally I'd agree with this but if we're sticking with Sam...investing in Oline now can go a long way towards establishing a foundation for him to succeed.

Oline never a bad investment because they impact both run & pass and only other position on offense that stays on the field for every snap.

Besides, could be great insurance for potential Becton weight & injury issues.  

And, if they both work out,, when they approach end of first contract, you could always choose to pay one and trade the other for more than your initial investment ala Laramy Tunsil.

[Marshmello]

We also need some speed at linebacker. 

[JH Jet Fan]

2 minutes ago, heymangold said:

Tampa’s Line:

LT: Smith, 2nd

LG: Marpet, 2nd

C : Jensen, 6th

RG: Stinne, UDFA

RT: Wirfs, 1st

 

Wasn't Jensen actually a FA from Ravens though.  Not quite the same.

[DoubleDecker]

1 minute ago, heymangold said:

Tampa’s Line:

LT: Smith, 2nd

LG: Marpet, 2nd

C : Jensen, 6th

RG: Stinne, UDFA

RT: Wirfs, 1st

 

 2 pro bowlers and also RT that garnered rookie of the year votes

[Philc1]

[Philc1]

Just now, DoubleDecker said:

 2 pro bowlers and also RT that garnered rookie of the year votes

Look at our own history. 4 first rd picks on that OL that almost got us to the SB twice

[heymangold]

2 minutes ago, JH Jet Fan said:

Wasn't Jensen actually a FA from Ravens though.  Not quite the same.

What’s the point? We’re talking about drafting a RT at 2 and sticking with a QB that has shown zero growth since his freshman year at USC.

[DoubleDecker]

Devin White is a studddddddd!

 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, DoubleDecker said:

I don't disagree with this mindset, but I also understand the "if he's your guy, go get him!" crowd.  I want to emphasize the "whatever" portion of the part bolded.  If you feel like you can find value in the 2nd round picks and combination of FA, by all means.  I trust JD mainly because It seems he has a plan and is willing to invest resources into building the line.  Now what type of resources, not sure.  We can all agree the jets have neglected the line for so so long, it might not be out of the realm of possibility that they would use premium picks on fixing it.  Just get the talent and all of a sudden the offense will look much better including those fringe/ lottery picks in the later round.

If he’s your guy is a phrase, not a plan borne in smart planning, though. 

I am hopeful for JD more than I trust him. Truth is, as much as it pains me to say, so far he’s been only marginally better than the buffoon he replaced, and most of that was because he couldn’t have missed on an OT by the time it was his turn to pick at #11. He seems smarter than Maccagnan, and clearly has a better reputation, so I’m at least hopeful. I said in another thread I think he was just trying to outsmart everyone, as many first time GMs do try to show their stuff, but also like most who try he ended up with egg on his face. He’s signed 5 starting offensive linemen since he got here (I’m not counting Elflein). Name one who isn’t in need of upgrading. Maybe McGovern because he at least was a solid starter, looked better in the 2nd half, and frankly has another guaranteed season upcoming anyway so it’s a moot point for 2021. 

As I said, I do think that (on top of his own .000 batting average with FA OLmen) the oversight of drafting OL for the 5 prior seasons has convinced people that an equally bad overreaction somehow balances that out. It doesn’t; all it does is invest what some have repeated is the value of 3 1st round picks ultimately into upgrading the RT position. That’s mindless imo. 

[DoubleDecker]

I'm so happy for Bruce Arians and Todd Bowles!!

 

[GreenFish]

9 minutes ago, Marshmello said:

We also need some speed at linebacker. 

Who’s he talking about when he says top 5 pick?

Edit: looks like he was referring to Fournette.

[Titan24]

Hey good for Tom

[Irish Jet]

38 minutes ago, Titan24 said:

So the TB line is unbelievable? Filled w all pros? Give me a break 

Yes.

Wirfs is a future all pro. 

[Sperm Edwards]

7 minutes ago, JH Jet Fan said:

Normally I'd agree with this but if we're sticking with Sam...investing in Oline now can go a long way towards establishing a foundation for him to succeed.

Oline never a bad investment because they impact both run & pass and only other position on offense that stays on the field for every snap.

Besides, could be great insurance for potential Becton weight & injury issues.  

And, if they both work out,, when they approach end of first contract, you could always choose to pay one and trade the other for more than your initial investment ala Laramy Tunsil.

Sticking with Sam is not a reason to double down on poor decisions. 

The idea that, absent drafting Sewell at #2 overall, the team can’t build an average or even above average line, is ridiculous.

If Darnold works out it’ll be because the light went on or something, not because Sewell instead of any other RT selection made him into a FQB. Come on. 

[Lupz27]

49 minutes ago, DoubleDecker said:

Almost 4 quarters in to this Super Bowl and I can't stress this enough, it doesn't matter how many offensive weapons we draft/sign, it won't matter a damn if the QB is running for his life.  Get the weaponz but don't forget to "fortify the castle "as well!  

KC did build a wall it just so happened the brick that held the whole thing up get hurt late in the AFCCG.

[Sperm Edwards]

13 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Darnold got killed in 2019.  His pass protection was better this year but Becton also missed some games and other than Becton the OL was still below mediocre with no running game 

So? 

That doesn’t therefore mean the team needs to sink the equivalent all that a #2 pick could become, just to upgrade one OT position when the team already has a LT who’s at his career worse as a raw rookie who had an abbreviated camp with substandard coaching, and yes a QB who has no feel for pressure in the first place.

[Beerfish]

Becton needs to improve and stay healthy.

Both GB and KC lost their left tackles at playoff time and looked like completely different teams.

Another reason I bleated endlessly about D'Brick being underrated if anything, never missed game for like 10 years.

[JH Jet Fan]

6 minutes ago, heymangold said:

What’s the point? We’re talking about drafting a RT at 2 and sticking with a QB that has shown zero growth since his freshman year at USC.

My point comes down to I believe in Sam Darnold and you obviously don't.  A simple case of beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I just hope we find out one way or the other.  I'm all for running it back with Sam but should we choose to deal him, I really hope he goes to SF.

[Sperm Edwards]

13 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Darnold would have another Patriots fiasco if he was under center right now.

I read your post three times & don’t know what this means.

[BROOKLYN JET]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

I read your post three times & don’t know what this means.

Ghosts.

[Beerfish]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

So? 

That doesn’t therefore mean the team needs to sink the equivalent all that a #2 pick could become, just to upgrade one OT position when the team already has a LT who’s at his career worse as a raw rookie who had an abbreviated camp with substandard coaching, and yes a QB who has no feel for pressure in the first place.

The team needs to:

Trade down and

Use at least two of the first three picks on a guard and center.

Heck even if they draft a QB at 2 and trade darnold they should still be using 2 out of the top 3 picks on oline.

Won;t happen but it should.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Becton needs to improve and stay healthy.

Both GB and KC lost their left tackles at playoff time and looked like completely different teams.

Another reason I bleated endlessly about D'Brick being underrated if anything, never missed game for like 10 years.

I’m sure Becton will improve. This past year will be his career worst (health permitting, of course). As I just said above: raw prospect; probably could stand to lose some weight and still be an enormous mountain of humanity; could do with some better coaching; could do with not just this past year’s experience but also a real, full summer; could have used a lot of help at LG next to him that he didn’t have.

As much as people like to excuse & grade Darnold on a curve, what’s good for the goose...

No doubt on GB and KC’s backup (and backup level) tackles. 

In his 10 seasons, Ferguson had 5 outstanding seasons and 5 that certainly weren’t outstanding. There’s more to starting than just starting, but he was a rock in terms of suiting up on Sundays. 

[undertow]

15 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Darnold would have another Patriots fiasco if he was under center right now.

True but he also hasn't had 3 years of developing with the most talent in the league and a HOF coach....think that matters at all or nah? 

[TokyoJetsFan]

9 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Who’s he talking about when he says top 5 pick?

Fournette?

[Bocajetfan]

30 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Will be our best draft pick since Revis

Two years ago this guy was a top 5 pick at worst. Sat out this year. Does anyone know what he was doing was he working on his skills set? Players that did play have film no matter how limited that shows something about their talent level. As I said two years ago a no brainer, today I need assurances. Agree O-line needs to addressed early just wonder if he is the guy to invest in.

[JH Jet Fan]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So? 

That doesn’t therefore mean the team needs to sink the equivalent all that a #2 pick could become, just to upgrade one OT position when the team already has a LT who’s at his career worse as a raw rookie who had an abbreviated camp with substandard coaching, and yes a QB who has no feel for pressure in the first place.

Look.  Bottom line...I'm all for going until it hurts for Watson.

Save that though...just not sure Wilson or Fielda or Lance is the answer.

Sewell, Slater, Chase, Smith, Pitts.  Doesn't matter to me.  Just invest in the offense.

[Grandy]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I read your post three times & don’t know what this means.